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SQ22
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Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:43 pm

Welcome to the Wisconsin Aviation Thread 2020. Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411813
 
seanpmassey
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:31 pm

Weather in the Fox Cities isn't great today, and the early morning Delta flight to ATL slid off of the taxiway at GRB. Thankfully no one was injured, and there doesn't appear to be any damage to the plane. https://www.wbay.com/content/news/Plane ... 17981.html
 
masonh2479
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:41 pm

KATW based, really hoping that United ups their service to KDEN from a CRJ2, being on that plane for so long really sucks. Allegiant starting Nashville, hopefully more service is announced this year. Bucket list items, Delta to KSLC, KSEA, or KLAX; American and United service to a city that isn’t Chicago. Aircraft upgrades from AA, DL, and UA would be a huge win, no small ERJ145s or CRJ2s.
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:04 pm

There are still some more nonstop routes that could be added by US3 carriers out of MKE, including MKE-LAX/MIA/LGA/DCA by AA, MKE-SFO/IAD by UA, and MKE-LAX/JFK/RDU by DL.
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:08 pm

masonh2479 wrote:
KATW based, really hoping that United ups their service to KDEN from a CRJ2, being on that plane for so long really sucks. Bucket list items, Delta to KSLC, KSEA, or KLAX; American and United service to a city that isn’t Chicago.


I could see AA possibly adding ATW-DFW nonstop service with AA still expanding its DFW hub. AA adding ATW-PHX nonstop service might also be a possibility with AA having recently added nonstop service to PHX from CVG, CID, FAR, GRR, MSN, and ICT in the Midwest.
 
masonh2479
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:45 pm

jplatts wrote:
masonh2479 wrote:
KATW based, really hoping that United ups their service to KDEN from a CRJ2, being on that plane for so long really sucks. Bucket list items, Delta to KSLC, KSEA, or KLAX; American and United service to a city that isn’t Chicago.


I could see AA possibly adding ATW-DFW nonstop service with AA still expanding its DFW hub. AA adding ATW-PHX nonstop service might also be a possibility with AA having recently added nonstop service to PHX from CVG, CID, FAR, GRR, MSN, and ICT in the Midwest.

That would be nice, ORD is always a risk to connect through. Very delay prone
 
seanpmassey
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:59 pm

masonh2479 wrote:
KATW based, really hoping that United ups their service to KDEN from a CRJ2, being on that plane for so long really sucks. Allegiant starting Nashville, hopefully more service is announced this year. Bucket list items, Delta to KSLC, KSEA, or KLAX; American and United service to a city that isn’t Chicago. Aircraft upgrades from AA, DL, and UA would be a huge win, no small ERJ145s or CRJ2s.


The ATW-DEN service is due to Air Wisconsin. They operate a lot of United's CRJs, and that route is to rotate planes/pilots through Air Wisconsin's HQ in Appleton. United is also increasing the number of ATW-ORD flights as well, and these all appear to be operated by Air Wisconsin. So I doubt we will see a lot of upgauging on UA flights.

It looks like Delta has upgauged away from CR1/CR2s on most flights. We should see more CR7/CR9s. But I don't see them overflying MSP or DTW right now. I'm not sure the demand is there for either ATW or GRB.
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:42 pm

HermansCVR580 wrote:
Now we need AA MKE-MIA.


I agree that AA adding MKE-MIA nonstop service is a possibility. In addition to MKE-MIA, AA could also add nonstop service to LAX and LGA out of MKE.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:33 am

United's growth in Wisconsin more generally is an underreported story.

For example, United now flies to all of its hubs but IAH from MSN

Both MSN and MKE have 4x daily to DEN in the schedule this summer

GRB will have the CRJ550 on all flights

While there are still a lot of CR2/ERJs everywhere and mainline to ORD from MSN is down to only once daily, there's been a lot of positive movement considering UA's past domestic position.

IAH-MSN has to be coming at this rate
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jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:12 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
United's growth in Wisconsin more generally is an underreported story.

For example, United now flies to all of its hubs but IAH from MSN

IAH-MSN has to be coming at this rate


UA has also announced that it is going to be operating seasonal MKE-SFO nonstop service starting in June 2020, which is already being discussed at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1438765.

I agree that UA adding MSN-IAH nonstop service is a possibility with IAH being the only UA hub that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from MSN.

UA adding MKE-IAD nonstop service is a possibility with UA already serving IAD nonstop from other Midwestern cities and with MKE-WAS currently having no nonstop competition with WN being the only airline serving DCA and BWI nonstop from MKE.
 
dirtymillennial
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:46 am

Looks like MSN is joining MKE in mainline SFO service on United this summer. The daily year-round flight switches to a A319 starting June 4th.

Also appears that AA is going 2/3 mainline (again A319s) on MSN-DFW around the same time.
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:25 am

dirtymillennial wrote:
Looks like MSN is joining MKE in mainline SFO service on United this summer. The daily year-round flight switches to a A319 starting June 4th.

Also appears that AA is going 2/3 mainline (again A319s) on MSN-DFW around the same time.

MKE - SFO could easily handle a 777 for a few days prior to and after the Dem convention. (I know, facilities problem)
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:02 pm

Has MKE ever had nonstop flights to Germany ?

Seems like a natural fit given the vast German ancestry in Wisconsin.
 
bobsmith99
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:11 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
Has MKE ever had nonstop flights to Germany ?

Seems like a natural fit given the vast German ancestry in Wisconsin.


To my knowledge, MKE has never had any scheduled TATL flights. With O'Hare right down the road, it just doesn't pencil out.
 
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mke717spotter
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:20 am

crjflyboy wrote:
Has MKE ever had nonstop flights to Germany?

IIRC Condor or someone else ran flights to Germany during the summer quite a while back. I don't remember all of the details but I think it was during the early 90s and I don't think it lasted very long.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:02 pm

[photoid][/photoid]It was ATA and they did a scheduled charter between Milwaukee and Frankfurt in 1992 with a 757.. It ran June through September and was 1x/week (may have been a few weeks where it did not run) -- there were something like 10 round trips. Loads were okay in summer (September was weaker) but like any short-run destination charter like this the "opposite" flights were emptier -- early FRA-MKE and late MKE-FRA. No idea who organized it or what made it happen. I'm sure it was contract work (not ATA on their own) and likely part of package tours. This wasn't something you could book via ATA directly, I don't believe.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:33 pm

With LUFTHANSA'S recent order for 787's it might be the right plane for nonstop service to their giant hub in Frankfurt

http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/eur ... -aircraft/
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:49 pm

It was ATA and they did a scheduled charter between Milwaukee and Frankfurt in 1992 with a 757.. It ran June through September and was 1x/week (may have been a few weeks where it did not run) -- there were something like 10 round trips. Loads were okay in summer (September was weaker) but like any short-run destination charter like this the "opposite" flights were emptier -- early FRA-MKE and late MKE-FRA. No idea who organized it or what made it happen. I'm sure it was contract work (not ATA on their own) and likely part of package tours. This wasn't something you could book via ATA directly, I don't believe
 
FRAborn
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:40 am

I don't think I've ever hoped for any route more than FRA-MKE. Unfortunately most folks here don't know much about Wisconsin (let alone Milwaukee). I'm sure the traffic to Germany would be fine if people from Chicago Bear Country were willing to drive North, but I don't see many Germans visiting MKE for holiday. Lufthansa wouldn't try it with ORD down the road, and there's no USA carrier either. It would have to be Condor and given the present situation I don't think they're into taking risks. I always thought that if Ryanair had a TATL airline that they would fly into MKE (and probably market it as Chicago/Detroit :lol: )
 
UWPAviation
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:41 am

FRAborn wrote:
I don't think I've ever hoped for any route more than FRA-MKE. Unfortunately most folks here don't know much about Wisconsin (let alone Milwaukee). I'm sure the traffic to Germany would be fine if people from Chicago Bear Country were willing to drive North, but I don't see many Germans visiting MKE for holiday. Lufthansa wouldn't try it with ORD down the road, and there's no USA carrier either. It would have to be Condor and given the present situation I don't think they're into taking risks. I always thought that if Ryanair had a TATL airline that they would fly into MKE (and probably market it as Chicago/Detroit :lol: )


I would love to see it. However Milwaukee will never have a Trans-Atlantic flight. Our proximity to ORD kills it. Yes, northern suburban Chicago communities like Gurnee, Waukegan, Zion do use MKE for air travel. My old college roommate lives in the Gurnee area and uses MKE whenever possible. But the vast majority of Chicago suburbs live either south or west of Ohare. So now you are just relying on Southeastern Wisconsin traffic which is already used to driving to ORD or connecting for long haul flights. And like you mentioned, I know Wisconsinites don’t like to admit it, but I don’t see Germans wanting to visit Milwaukee. Just fly to Chicago and take the train up for the day.
 
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mke717spotter
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:55 pm

Temporary additions for the upcoming Democratic Convention: UA will fly LAX/LGA/IAD/DCA-MKE and there will also be an extra SFO-MKE frequency. AA is also adding a DCA-MKE flight.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... tion-2020/
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illinoisman
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:08 pm

mke717spotter wrote:
Temporary additions for the upcoming Democratic Convention: UA will fly LAX/LGA/IAD/DCA-MKE and there will also be an extra SFO-MKE frequency.

Looks like all those people who have been clamoring for one of the Legacies to add LAX-MKE finally got their wish!
 
MSNflyer
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:14 pm

Well, figured it was only a matter of time in this terrible new COVID-19 environment, but the Wisconsin State Journal reports that United is suspending MSN-LAX/SFO and MSN-IAD may not start in May as scheduled.

https://madison.com/wsj/business/united ... 4fefc.html
 
MSNflyer
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:26 pm

Some more significant cuts in Wisconsin aviation noted in this week's OAG changes thread.

Delta suspended a number of routes in April, including:

* Central Wisconsin (CWA) to Detroit (DTW)
* Green Bay to Atlanta (ATL)
* Madison to New York LaGuardia (LGA), Salt Lake City (SLC) and Washington, DC National (DCA)
* Milwaukee to Boston (BOS) and Salt Lake City (SLC)
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:42 pm

DL’s MSN operation will be going down to 8 flights/day for April, down from a planned 20ish...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
HCLF
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:50 pm

On Sunday, The Points Guy reported that Frontier and United have applied to temporarily suspend all service in GRB. Ouch. That leaves just Delta and American. Do you think ATW's close proximity was a factor?

https://thepointsguy.com/news/airlines- ... -airports/
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:41 pm

HCLF wrote:
On Sunday, The Points Guy reported that Frontier and United have applied to temporarily suspend all service in GRB... Do you think ATW's close proximity was a factor?


Definitely applies for United's Green Bay flight. Wonder if the 550's will operate out of ATW now?
Frontier's DEN flight was very new from Green Bay. In that case doubt it had anything to do w. ATW being close.
 
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KGRB
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:41 pm

I suspect the reason UA is choosing to suspend GRB over ATW is because of the ZW maintenance base in ATW.

It is hard to believe that CWA and EAU will have more UA flights than GRB (if the exemption is approved.)

yeogeo wrote:
Wonder if the 550's will operate out of ATW now?

I doubt it. With the schedule reductions in place, ZW is probably having a hard enough time getting their 200s into maintenance in ATW as it is. Scheduling another UAX carrier into ATW would be counterproductive.
First flight: NW DC-10 MKE-MSP December 1996
Most recent flight: DL/9E CRJ-900 LGA-MSN January 2020
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:42 am

NWAESC wrote:
DL’s MSN operation will be going down to 8 flights/day for April, down from a planned 20ish...


Actually it's gotten worse. These is what Delta is running these days. They are all 76-seat regional jets unless noted.

Madison
2x MSN
3x DTW but one of those is regularly cancelled

Milwaukee
2x ATL (737-800)
3x DTW but one of those is regularly cancelled
2x MSP

Green Bay
2 DTW but one is regularly cancelled
2 MSP (CRJ) but one is regularly cancelled

Appleton
1 DTW (CRJ)
2 MSP (CRJ) but one of those is regularly cancelled

In the past 7 days...

39 Milwaukee flights, 4196 seats
31 Madison flights, 2356 seats
18 Green Bay flights, 1150 seats
17 Appleton flights, 850 seats


As for United dropping GRB I think they are just looking for any way they can be relieved of as many small stations as possible. So in their petition they named a handful or two of small airports less than 50 miles apart and asked to drop them. Kalamazoo in because GRR is less than 50 miles away is another one. I don't think it's a sign that GRB is unusually bad, just that they are hoping they plead enough of a case that ATW is so close it's not impactful to suspend GRB. Were it not for the maintenance facility in ATW perhaps GRB would have been kept and ATW suspended. From the looks of things it would not surprise me if ATW is actually boarding a handful or two more people per week than GRB on UA* but it would not be a surprise if those extra ATW seats are deadheading employees / crew.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri May 08, 2020 12:54 am

For May, MSN is down to 1 E75/day. It’s an 0915 departure to MSP.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:40 pm

WN adding nonstop service to OAK from MKE might be a possibility once demand for domestic air travel returns to normal levels with
(a) WN no longer serving SFO nonstop from MKE,
(b) WN being able to offer connections to Hawaii from MKE through OAK if WN adds MKE-OAK nonstop service,
(c) MKE likely being able to support nonstop service to SFO on UA and OAK on WN if demand returns to Q3 2019 levels as the PDEW of MKE-SFO/OAK/SJC was 230 passengers per day in Q3 2019,
(d) WN having a FF base in both the San Francisco Bay Area and Greater Milwaukee to support MKE-OAK nonstop service,
(e) the San Francisco Bay Area being one of the top markets that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from MKE, and
(f) WN having added new nonstop routes out of OAK in the last 6 years.
 
HCLF
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:49 pm

AA just announced new direct service from ATW to CLT, on a E175, beginning November 5th. That's ATW's 12th nonstop destination. Good news in bleak times for the industry.

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