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SQ22
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Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:51 pm

Welcome to the Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread 2020. Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?t=1411943
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:41 pm

Nice, a new Hawaii thread!

Any updates on when the OGG runway expansion will begin?

Thanks!

Bob
 
WPvsMW
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Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:30 am

Continuing the Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2019 (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411943&start=200, now locked).

Starting the year on a sad note, authorities continue the search for seventh of the seven persons lost in the Dec. 2019 helo crash along the Na Pali coast.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/12/ ... off-kauai/
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:55 pm

NTSB says recovery of the wreckage may be impossible due to terrain.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/01/ ... ter-crash/
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:17 pm

More WN growth in Hawaii.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/01/ ... 80e461295e
“We started flying international in 2014 and Hawaii is a bigger market and a faster maturing market. We see a much stronger consumer response to Hawaii than, say, the Caribbean. The Hawaii brand, the Hawaii experience, is just second to none and we have a customer base that responds to Southwest’s low prices.”
Andrew Watterson, EVP network planning at WN, formerly VP of NP at HA ... no substitute for experience. Savvy move by WN.
91% LF TPAC on WN 3/19 to 9/19
 
tphuang
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:26 pm

What is mentioned in that article should be quite alarming to HA and AS. This WN growth into Hawaii is going to keep going for a while and their announced routes are already quite formidable.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:50 pm

Also from the article linked above...

“ Likewise, Watterson said Southwest’s interisland serv­ice in Hawaii has met expectations despite the fact that Southwest’s slower than anticipated trans-Pacific rollout meant that the carrier didn’t have as many customers who were transitioning from Honolulu to the neighbor islands or on multi-island hops. So far, the bulk of Southwest’s interisland base has been local residents.”

Now that can’t be right. Airliners.net told me the locals don’t want Southwest! Heh.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Aceskywalker
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:55 am

Absolutely no surprise that WN is doing well interisland. They’ll probably never match HA frequencies but competition keeps both airlines honest.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:54 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
Also from the article linked above...

“ Likewise, Watterson said Southwest’s interisland serv­ice in Hawaii has met expectations despite the fact that Southwest’s slower than anticipated trans-Pacific rollout meant that the carrier didn’t have as many customers who were transitioning from Honolulu to the neighbor islands or on multi-island hops. So far, the bulk of Southwest’s interisland base has been local residents.”

Now that can’t be right. Airliners.net told me the locals don’t want Southwest! Heh.

I saw that quote that the bulk were local residents. However, how many are retirees who flew WN a bunch when working on the mainland?

The reality is, WN's presence in HA is very dependent on the MAX. They need the more fuel efficient plane for the economics at range. I'm sure that WN would also like to open up more markets:
https://www.southwest.com/hawaii/

When looking at the above map, I notice:
1. No Las Vegas, Phoenix, Salt Lake City.
2. I personally do not think WN is going to fill in missing opportunities from Oregon, Washington, or Alaska to Hawaii in 2020. Just my hunch that they'll grow from their strong markets first.
3. The intra-Hawaii map needs to fill out. Really just OGG to LIH and ITO.
4. No ITO to mainland? I would expect one flight to be added to OAK, but post MAX RTS.
5. No LAX/ONT flights (yet), I would expect this post MAX RTS too. I see the map and chuckle at the fares Southern Californians must be offered to fly up to OAK to transfer to Hawaii.


I also was searching for LIH-ITO flights (been there, done that), WN needs to fill out inter island connections for quicker transition times. I looked May 5th LIH-ITO and May 7th ITO-LIH (just random dates) and noted LIH-ITO was a minimum 2 hour 30 minute trip (45 minutes in HNL) and ITO-LIH was a minimum 3 hour 20 minutes with a minimum 90 minute layover in HNL. HA had LIH-ITO that were 2 hour 14 minutes and ITO-LIH of 2 hour 13 minutes, plus many options 15 to 30 minutes longer.

WN is providing price competition, which is good. But I did other checks (e.g., KOA to OGG) and most of the times of day WN is connecting via HNL and not at a time I would want to fly (due to hotel checkout/in times). Obviously WN's current aircraft shortage is impacting them. I hope to see more service soon.

Lightsaber
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MIflyer12
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:13 pm

lightsaber wrote:
4. No ITO to mainland? I would expect one flight to be added to OAK, but post MAX RTS.


Why would you expect ITO to mainland? Has anybody other than UA done it regularly in the last ten years? Even now UA is just flying it 3x weely. I think they've had seasonal terminations within the last few years, too.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:43 pm

The biggest air service complaint of folks near ITO is the trip across the saddle to KOA for mainland flights ... but if UA could operate more than 3x profitably, UA would.
The biggest air service gratitude of folks near ITO is WN adding an ITO station starting 19 Jan. 2020.
Plus, OGG/SAN nonstop start 14 April 2020.
https://www.southwest.com/hawaii/
Last edited by WPvsMW on Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:43 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
Also from the article linked above...

“ Likewise, Watterson said Southwest’s interisland serv­ice in Hawaii has met expectations despite the fact that Southwest’s slower than anticipated trans-Pacific rollout meant that the carrier didn’t have as many customers who were transitioning from Honolulu to the neighbor islands or on multi-island hops. So far, the bulk of Southwest’s interisland base has been local residents.”

Now that can’t be right. Airliners.net told me the locals don’t want Southwest! Heh.


I saw that quote that the bulk were local residents. However, how many are retirees who flew WN a bunch when working on the mainland?


Still with the reluctance to accept the Hawaiian locals might actually be enjoying WN’s presence.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:46 pm

I assure you.... there is no reluctance to fly WN among locals in the Islands. There's a reluctance to check a bag ex-HNL when flying interisland... because the bag check line takes longer than the interisland flight.

Many of my friends have not flown HA interisland since WN started service. Legroom as decisive more than free checked bag (see above). HA really opened the door to WN by implementing LCC seating on HA's B712s.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:22 pm

WN impact on HA in CY2019 ... total traffic (intrastate and "overseas") -1% YOY.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/01/ ... mber-bump/
 
tphuang
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:36 pm

by the way, just posting some Q3 yield numbers on the intra-HI market. Huge bloodbath in the 2 markets WN had entered by then. Both carriers are losing money hand over fist if it's not clear from just looking at these numbers.

CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare % NS PerFlight # Flights LF Yield
HNLOGG 100 HA 470219 75.13 74.57 195.51 99.53% 128 4857 75.63% 56.39
HNLOGG 100 WN 95188 47.42 47.42 000.00 100.00% 175 733 74.21% 35.19
HNLKOA 163 HA 338226 79.41 76.38 174.81 96.91% 128 3700 71.42% 54.54
HNLKOA 163 WN 93679 48.66 48.66 000.00 100.00% 175 732 73.13% 35.58
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:46 pm

But from a network perspective, WN has YOY growth and HA doesn't. From a NP perspective, WN is fine with red on the intra-HI connecting segments so long as TPAC is (solidly) in the black (even with the MAX grounding).
http://investors.southwest.com/news-and ... -113106440
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/24/southwe ... nding.html

When the MAX returns, and 380 more on order... (or MAX equivalents.. Boeing has to make WN happy or there could be some LUV for Airbi).
 
heretothere
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:40 pm

tphuang wrote:
by the way, just posting some Q3 yield numbers on the intra-HI market. Huge bloodbath in the 2 markets WN had entered by then. Both carriers are losing money hand over fist if it's not clear from just looking at these numbers.

CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare % NS PerFlight # Flights LF Yield
HNLOGG 100 HA 470219 75.13 74.57 195.51 99.53% 128 4857 75.63% 56.39
HNLOGG 100 WN 95188 47.42 47.42 000.00 100.00% 175 733 74.21% 35.19
HNLKOA 163 HA 338226 79.41 76.38 174.81 96.91% 128 3700 71.42% 54.54
HNLKOA 163 WN 93679 48.66 48.66 000.00 100.00% 175 732 73.13% 35.58


What’s so bad about the HA fares? What were they last year?
 
tphuang
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:43 pm

heretothere wrote:
tphuang wrote:
by the way, just posting some Q3 yield numbers on the intra-HI market. Huge bloodbath in the 2 markets WN had entered by then. Both carriers are losing money hand over fist if it's not clear from just looking at these numbers.

CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare % NS PerFlight # Flights LF Yield
HNLOGG 100 HA 470219 75.13 74.57 195.51 99.53% 128 4857 75.63% 56.39
HNLOGG 100 WN 95188 47.42 47.42 000.00 100.00% 175 733 74.21% 35.19
HNLKOA 163 HA 338226 79.41 76.38 174.81 96.91% 128 3700 71.42% 54.54
HNLKOA 163 WN 93679 48.66 48.66 000.00 100.00% 175 732 73.13% 35.58


What’s so bad about the HA fares? What were they last year?


so for WN, a typical really short flight needs to achieve close to $90 in yield per passenger to be system average. HA gets over $100 per passenger on routes without WN competition. Just to put things into perspective.

Not that I'm saying WN is underperforming their own expectations. These are mostly done to increase utilization for the 737-800, since they don't do red-eyes. And I have no idea what WN regards as expectations.
 
heretothere
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:10 pm

tphuang wrote:
heretothere wrote:
tphuang wrote:
by the way, just posting some Q3 yield numbers on the intra-HI market. Huge bloodbath in the 2 markets WN had entered by then. Both carriers are losing money hand over fist if it's not clear from just looking at these numbers.

CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare % NS PerFlight # Flights LF Yield
HNLOGG 100 HA 470219 75.13 74.57 195.51 99.53% 128 4857 75.63% 56.39
HNLOGG 100 WN 95188 47.42 47.42 000.00 100.00% 175 733 74.21% 35.19
HNLKOA 163 HA 338226 79.41 76.38 174.81 96.91% 128 3700 71.42% 54.54
HNLKOA 163 WN 93679 48.66 48.66 000.00 100.00% 175 732 73.13% 35.58


What’s so bad about the HA fares? What were they last year?


so for WN, a typical really short flight needs to achieve close to $90 in yield per passenger to be system average. HA gets over $100 per passenger on routes without WN competition. Just to put things into perspective.

Not that I'm saying WN is underperforming their own expectations. These are mostly done to increase utilization for the 737-800, since they don't do red-eyes. And I have no idea what WN regards as expectations.


Yes, it’s clear that WN isn’t making money yet with sub $50 fares.

I’m more curious what the decreases in HA’s fares look like. I didn’t think they were ever getting $100 on HNLOGG, so a $75 fare and $25+ premium over WN seems pretty good and perhaps not too ugly financially.
 
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jaybird
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:13 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
Also from the article linked above...

“ Obviously WN's current aircraft shortage is impacting them. I hope to see more service soon.

Lightsaber


Isn't Southwest service patterns at Honolulu (maybe other airports) by their gate allotment? I think they have 4 gate stands at the moment. Is there any opportunity for additional gates?
 
AirFiero
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:16 pm

tphuang wrote:
heretothere wrote:
tphuang wrote:
by the way, just posting some Q3 yield numbers on the intra-HI market. Huge bloodbath in the 2 markets WN had entered by then. Both carriers are losing money hand over fist if it's not clear from just looking at these numbers.

CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare % NS PerFlight # Flights LF Yield
HNLOGG 100 HA 470219 75.13 74.57 195.51 99.53% 128 4857 75.63% 56.39
HNLOGG 100 WN 95188 47.42 47.42 000.00 100.00% 175 733 74.21% 35.19
HNLKOA 163 HA 338226 79.41 76.38 174.81 96.91% 128 3700 71.42% 54.54
HNLKOA 163 WN 93679 48.66 48.66 000.00 100.00% 175 732 73.13% 35.58


What’s so bad about the HA fares? What were they last year?


so for WN, a typical really short flight needs to achieve close to $90 in yield per passenger to be system average. HA gets over $100 per passenger on routes without WN competition. Just to put things into perspective.

Not that I'm saying WN is underperforming their own expectations. These are mostly done to increase utilization for the 737-800, since they don't do red-eyes. And I have no idea what WN regards as expectations.


Hey, tp’, how do the latest numbers look on the routes to the mainland?
 
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usxguy
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:58 pm

Do we call WN's HNL access area a "gate" or a pad? I wasn't sure how they made it all work down at that end, if there was a door for each pad or multiple pads for 1 door, like how the Commuter Terminal used to be...
xx
 
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airportugal310
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:31 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
I assure you.... there is no reluctance to fly WN among locals in the Islands. There's a reluctance to check a bag ex-HNL when flying interisland... because the bag check line takes longer than the interisland flight.

Many of my friends have not flown HA interisland since WN started service. Legroom as decisive more than free checked bag (see above). HA really opened the door to WN by implementing LCC seating on HA's B712s.


I get it that you are local, but there are many of us on here. I can assure "you" that some of your hearsay is not shared by others. Your mileage varies, but let's face it..."us" business travelers in the Islands would not touch Southwest for a whole myriad of reasons. The backpacker crowd might be a whole different story altogether, though
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
dlflynhayn
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:33 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
Absolutely no surprise that WN is doing well interisland. They’ll probably never match HA frequencies but competition keeps both airlines honest.


You would think at first HA was matching fares but now more than often they don't recently SWA was $49 like always from HNL-KOA HA was $149 WTH no wonder there getting customers.
 
dlflynhayn
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:38 pm

I’m more curious what the decreases in HA’s fares look like. I didn’t think they were ever getting $100 on HNLOGG, so a $75 fare and $25+ premium over WN seems pretty good and perhaps not too ugly financially.[/quote]
Shoot ive paid over $100.00 just to go one way OGG-KOA wish we had a ferry system.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:46 pm

I do hope to see SAN service to both LIH and KOA at some point, hopefully before WN adds another mainland gateway -- be it LA, ONT, SEA, or ???. I believe that is the plan and I hope it happens eventually. That being said, it's obvious that the MAX is the key to WN's Hawaii network so until the grounding ends and the planes are able to fly, more patience is the only course...

AS has taken some competitive action at SAN to try to maintain their position in the Hawaii market here: LIH and KOA go daily sooner than usual and possibly on a year-round basis? and Maui goes daily-double again, at least for the summer season. They're trying to make it somewhat difficult for WN to grab an easy hand-hold in SAN! HA, IMO, as always here, seems fairly unconcerned and moves along slowly and seems to keep SAN as an afterthought gateway to the mainland.

bb
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:17 am

dlflynhayn wrote:
Shoot ive paid over $100.00 just to go one way OGG-KOA wish we had a ferry system.

We tried in 2007. And then there were protest. And now we dont. TIH
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:53 am

airportugal310 wrote:
I can assure "you" that some of your hearsay is not shared by others.


HA does have pax. Ergo, "some" are flying HA interisland ... but fewer than before. That what the data show.
 
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Laulau
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:19 am

More news on the on the 737 Max:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/boeing-m ... 0ec3d1bb9d

Not good for SW since the Max was planned for SAN/LAS/PHX to the islands. Could use the 800 but would be significantly weight restricted.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:53 pm

 
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usxguy
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:46 pm

I'm going to be curious to watch WN's ITO loads when they hit the T100s. I know when I was at MW and we started our jet service, there was TONS of fan-fair, but after people took it once, they went back to HA because they wanted miles. Once we were in Alaska's MileagePlan did bookings start to pick back up again. Hawaiians love their credit cards & miles....
xx
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:46 am

Are there any prospects for HA and WN to start 24 hour service between the Islands?
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:53 am

Are there any prospects for HA and WN to start 24 hour service between the Islands?
 
77H
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:12 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
Are there any prospects for HA and WN to start 24 hour service between the Islands?


Not necessary. The late flights on HA are usually wide open from my experience.

77H
 
barney captain
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:45 am

usxguy wrote:
I'm going to be curious to watch WN's ITO loads when they hit the T100s. I know when I was at MW and we started our jet service, there was TONS of fan-fair, but after people took it once, they went back to HA because they wanted miles. Once we were in Alaska's MileagePlan did bookings start to pick back up again. Hawaiians love their credit cards & miles....


Ironically, Rapid Reward/Credit Card enrollments were one of the driving forces in starting HI service for WN.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:49 pm

Credit cards are keeping AA in the black... CFOs notice big revenue streams. WN is the first interisland competitor of HA with an established FF base. IMO, that is a major reason WN has thrived, and will survive, interisland.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:29 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
Are there any prospects for HA and WN to start 24 hour service between the Islands?


When the ABC Store (think 7-Eleven) in Kona closes at 11PM you know there isn't much demand for 24-hour flying.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:49 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
Are there any prospects for HA and WN to start 24 hour service between the Islands?


When the ABC Store (think 7-Eleven) in Kona closes at 11PM you know there isn't much demand for 24-hour flying.


A little surprised the demand is not there at least on the weekends.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:23 am

OGG has no curfew or noise restrictions.... so the root cause is... low demand.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:05 pm

WN CEO confirms the "network effect" strategy for Hawaii service.

“But it has a very important role in that it [Hawaii service] really supports our California business,” Nealon said after Southwest reported its profit fell 21% partly due to higher costs and lost revenue from the Max grounding. “It’s exceeding on every dimension. The demand and the load factors (percentage of seats filled) have been very, very good. We’re very satisfied with that, both the long haul as well as the interisland.”
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/01/ ... cb7767e98b
 
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KanaHawaii
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:37 pm

News came down today that Hawaiian Airlines is now using a A-320NEO on one flight a day between Honolulu and Kahului. From.Routes Online:

Hawaiian Airlines earlier this month launched Airbus A321neo aircraft on Inter-Island market, operating on Kahului – Honolulu route. Since 07JAN20, the A321neo operates this route 4 times weekly.

HA179 OGG1220 – 1305HNL 321 x357
HA180 HNL1850 – 1935OGG 321 x246

One wonders if this is the first sign of a long shift by Hawaiian Air regarding it's interisland service. Here is a theory, subject to the interpretations of this board: HAL bought Island Air's AOC when the airline went bankrupt a couple of years back. While they have done nothing with it, it is something that they could use to convert "Ohana' service that now does the HNL-MKK-JHM runs into a more pure interisland carrier. Of course they would need to bring in more planes, but maybe more jetprops than jets. Since the 717s could be reaching end-of-life service in the next 5-10 years, there might be a need to mix in the A-321 into interisland service like what SWA has done with the 737-800's. So you'd have Ohana flights with smaller planes taking up some slack for the loss of pure jet-power interisland service.
 
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KanaHawaii
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:41 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
Are there any prospects for HA and WN to start 24 hour service between the Islands?


When the ABC Store (think 7-Eleven) in Kona closes at 11PM you know there isn't much demand for 24-hour flying.


A little surprised the demand is not there at least on the weekends.


Depending on the season, I have flown out of Hilo at 11:00 at night on the last flight of the day on Hawaiian. You can expect there to be that level of flights especially on specific holidays and events, like the Merrie Monarch in Hilo.

But your rigamaroll day on some anonymous day in the year does not give you as much demand. And that is the way it's been as long as I can remember.
 
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KanaHawaii
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:44 pm

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
dlflynhayn wrote:
Shoot ive paid over $100.00 just to go one way OGG-KOA wish we had a ferry system.

We tried in 2007. And then there were protest. And now we dont. TIH


Right now the way Hawaii society is, a ferry system probably won't be happening even though there are definite benefits for having one. I think the tolerance of anything "new" coming into the interisland market was stretched with the entry of Southwest into the market. And so far, despite what has happened in the past, a black hole hasn't opened up and swallowed the local companies in that market.
 
RushmoreAir
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:53 pm

KanaHawaii wrote:
News came down today that Hawaiian Airlines is now using a A-320NEO on one flight a day between Honolulu and Kahului. From.Routes Online:

Hawaiian Airlines earlier this month launched Airbus A321neo aircraft on Inter-Island market, operating on Kahului – Honolulu route. Since 07JAN20, the A321neo operates this route 4 times weekly.

HA179 OGG1220 – 1305HNL 321 x357
HA180 HNL1850 – 1935OGG 321 x246

One wonders if this is the first sign of a long shift by Hawaiian Air regarding it's interisland service.


Times roughly coincide with LAS-OGG, this seems like a live ferry. Similar to the 767 they used to have on HNL-LIH that was used to reposition for LIH-LAX.
NW UA DL F9 CO WN LO QF FI AC MU CA EU LH LX DY B6 AA HA NZ MW HU U2 SK AF EK IB HX WS G4 AZ IG 4B

The views and opinions as expressed in this post are entirely my own and are not those of my employer, Hawaiian Airlines, Inc
 
tphuang
Posts: 5061
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:16 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
WN CEO confirms the "network effect" strategy for Hawaii service.

“But it has a very important role in that it [Hawaii service] really supports our California business,” Nealon said after Southwest reported its profit fell 21% partly due to higher costs and lost revenue from the Max grounding. “It’s exceeding on every dimension. The demand and the load factors (percentage of seats filled) have been very, very good. We’re very satisfied with that, both the long haul as well as the interisland.”
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/01/ ... cb7767e98b

Yes, I think that's real purpose of their HI flights. It's too support their cali ff base. I find it hard to see HI standalone generate system average margins. But if they can lift rest of the stations and keep people from AS, these HI flights would've served their purpose.
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1856
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Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:22 am

HA bought WPs certificate to keep others out of the interisland business. The cert is pau. Has to have a plane on it & maintain scheduled service, even if its just 5 flights a week.
xx
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3721
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:43 pm

KanaHawaii wrote:
News came down today that Hawaiian Airlines is now using a A-320NEO on one flight a day between Honolulu and Kahului. From.Routes Online:

Hawaiian Airlines earlier this month launched Airbus A321neo aircraft on Inter-Island market, operating on Kahului – Honolulu route. Since 07JAN20, the A321neo operates this route 4 times weekly.

HA179 OGG1220 – 1305HNL 321 x357
HA180 HNL1850 – 1935OGG 321 x246

One wonders if this is the first sign of a long shift by Hawaiian Air regarding it's interisland service. Here is a theory, subject to the interpretations of this board: HAL bought Island Air's AOC when the airline went bankrupt a couple of years back. While they have done nothing with it, it is something that they could use to convert "Ohana' service that now does the HNL-MKK-JHM runs into a more pure interisland carrier. Of course they would need to bring in more planes, but maybe more jetprops than jets. Since the 717s could be reaching end-of-life service in the next 5-10 years, there might be a need to mix in the A-321 into interisland service like what SWA has done with the 737-800's. So you'd have Ohana flights with smaller planes taking up some slack for the loss of pure jet-power interisland service.


Kind of funny that this is "news" today when it's been in the schedule since the OGG-LAS service was announced. I think you're reading too much into a simple schedule requirement to position the airplane in/out of OGG to operate LAS and to position the airplane in/out of HNL to operate the SEA redeye 3/w.

As for the Island Air certificate theories... the cert is dead #1. #2 Hawaiian pilot contract would prevent what you're suggesting.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3721
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:27 pm

[list=][/list]
usxguy wrote:
HA bought WPs certificate to keep others out of the interisland business.


Perhaps, but that's a bit of a stretch. There may have been and underlying competitive reasons, but there were clear advantages for buying the certificate and assets for HAL's use. Bringing the Ohana operation in house was always in the cards from the very beginning. Buying the certificate would have made that effort a whole lot easier as opposed to starting from scratch (Northwest employed this when creating Compass... ACA/Independence -> Compass). In the end, the cost justifications apparently weren't there and they continue to use Empire, while owning the planes. There are former Island Air assets in use everyday like the hangar, ground equipment and training equipment.
 
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KanaHawaii
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:43 pm

Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:26 pm

I see the Mauka Extension at the Interisland terminal is coming up, framing seems to be in place and construction is moving along. Has there been any change in the news that the whole facility is going to be used by Hawaiian? And is Hawaiian still going to be the only entity using the "A" terminal?
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3721
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

Re: Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:44 pm

KanaHawaii wrote:
I see the Mauka Extension at the Interisland terminal is coming up, framing seems to be in place and construction is moving along. Has there been any change in the news that the whole facility is going to be used by Hawaiian? And is Hawaiian still going to be the only entity using the "A" terminal?


At this point, no and yes to your questions. Also, It's T1... A and B gates.

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