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AirbusA343
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:30 pm

Looks like it was TC-JSK that had the hard landing. I only saw it literally two days before!
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:35 pm

Looks like they are still trying to get the stuck Pegasus jet out under bad weather conditions, new pictures here:
https://www.airporthaber.com/pegasus-ha ... uleri.html
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:48 pm

Sad to see, only 5 Pegasus jets are in the air right now, 3 Domestic, 2 International. All from ADB, AYT, ESB :(
 
bgm
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:53 pm

Is there some systematic problem with Turkish pilots? How many incidents do we need before action is taken? A333, A321, and B738 in the past week. :boggled:
OK boomer.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2848
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:57 pm

bgm wrote:
Is there some systematic problem with Turkish pilots? How many incidents do we need before action is taken? A333, A321, and B738 in the past week. :boggled:


There was an accident involving an A321?
 
bgm
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:00 pm

Blerg wrote:
bgm wrote:
Is there some systematic problem with Turkish pilots? How many incidents do we need before action is taken? A333, A321, and B738 in the past week. :boggled:


There was an accident involving an A321?


There was a link a few posts before mine.

TC-JSK, here is the FR24: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... k#236d7416
OK boomer.
 
leftyboarder
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:37 pm

I agree that there has been a disproportionate amount of incidents lately in Turkey. Rapid growth with pilot training unable to catch up maybe? As a Turk I don’t want Turkey to have a bad rep a la Indonesia, so I hope something is done soon.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:50 am

Here is the preliminary delivery schedule for the next batch of TK's 787s: (number 7, 8 and 9 for TK)
TC-LLG on Jan23rd, TC-LLH and TC-LLI on Feb20th.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:52 pm

TK787 wrote:
Here is the preliminary delivery schedule for the next batch of TK's 787s: (number 7, 8 and 9 for TK)
TC-LLG on Jan23rd, TC-LLH and TC-LLI on Feb20th.


It looks like the 7th frame will be TC-LLH, the 8th frame TC-LLG & the 9th frame TC-LLI.
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
EalingFeeling
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:03 pm

According to @SeanM1997 on twitter, AnadoluJet are to start a new daily flight between London Stansted and Istanbul Sabiha Gökçen from 29 March 2020

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/12 ... 36545?s=19
 
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ankaraflyjet
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:10 pm

Thrice weekly Ankara London Stansted Ankara schedule by Pegasus is as follows

2-4-6 STN ESB 20:40 02:25 (+next day arrival)
3-5-7 ESB STN 04:05 06:20

Quite a red eye flight in each direction and limited transfer to/from ESB for inward/outbound domestic Turkey network of Pegasus at ESB unless you widen transit to more than 5 hours !!!

EalingFeeling wrote:
@SeanM1997 has posted on twitter and flights are on sale on flypgs.com

Pegasus to launch 3 new routes to London Stansted:
31/03 - Ankara to London Stansted (3x weekly; year-round)
04/05 - Dalaman to London Stansted (1x weekly - replacing Dalaman to London Gatwick; seasonal)
08/06 - Antalya to London Stansted (2x weekly; seasonal)

Izmir to London Stansted will increase from 3 to 5 weekly

Can somebody edit the wiki as flights are on sale but edits keep getting deleted on Stansted, Ankara and Dalaman pages
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:29 pm

ankaraflyjet wrote:
Thrice weekly Ankara London Stansted Ankara schedule by Pegasus is as follows

2-4-6 STN ESB 20:40 02:25 (+next day arrival)
3-5-7 ESB STN 04:05 06:20

Quite a red eye flight in each direction and limited transfer to/from ESB for inward/outbound domestic Turkey network of Pegasus at ESB unless you widen transit to more than 5 hours !!!

EalingFeeling wrote:
@SeanM1997 has posted on twitter and flights are on sale on flypgs.com

Pegasus to launch 3 new routes to London Stansted:
31/03 - Ankara to London Stansted (3x weekly; year-round)
04/05 - Dalaman to London Stansted (1x weekly - replacing Dalaman to London Gatwick; seasonal)
08/06 - Antalya to London Stansted (2x weekly; seasonal)

Izmir to London Stansted will increase from 3 to 5 weekly

Can somebody edit the wiki as flights are on sale but edits keep getting deleted on Stansted, Ankara and Dalaman pages


Maybe they are not after transfers but rather they are trying to improve aircraft utilization. My guess is there isn't much competition so they can get away with such schedules. I mean many might rather arrive in the middle of the night than to transfer in IST.
 
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ankaraflyjet
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:45 pm

Yes, this is true, secondary markets in Turkey always get this rotation from short to medium haul network by Turkish operators to serve for those markets instead of keeping the plane idle in Europe or Middle East. ESB is getting popular for red eye flights latey for this reason but can't complain, assuming that a year ago there was no direct service between the capital cities of UK and Turkey today there is two flights pw between LGW and ESB, Sun Express does seasonal Luton ESB and thrice weekly year-round Pegasus service to STN is coming in April. The jewel in the Nile is still unserved though that is LHR ESB and TK is reluctant to allocate a slot from existing 7 daily between LHR and IST and is unlikely to get additional slots at LHR. This leaves BA as the only candidate to do the route but that seems unlikely in the coming few years with their Brexit wars on the way…

London Ankara was the biggest unserved market for many years and at least this problem seems to be solved for the time being even though more frequency will be essential particularly by TK.

ESB still needs direct BRU, AMS, DXB, CPH, ZRH, GVA, on a year-round basis too. Can't understand how KLM did not return to ESB...

Blerg wrote:
ankaraflyjet wrote:
Thrice weekly Ankara London Stansted Ankara schedule by Pegasus is as follows

2-4-6 STN ESB 20:40 02:25 (+next day arrival)
3-5-7 ESB STN 04:05 06:20

Quite a red eye flight in each direction and limited transfer to/from ESB for inward/outbound domestic Turkey network of Pegasus at ESB unless you widen transit to more than 5 hours !!!

EalingFeeling wrote:
@SeanM1997 has posted on twitter and flights are on sale on flypgs.com

Pegasus to launch 3 new routes to London Stansted:
31/03 - Ankara to London Stansted (3x weekly; year-round)
04/05 - Dalaman to London Stansted (1x weekly - replacing Dalaman to London Gatwick; seasonal)
08/06 - Antalya to London Stansted (2x weekly; seasonal)

Izmir to London Stansted will increase from 3 to 5 weekly

Can somebody edit the wiki as flights are on sale but edits keep getting deleted on Stansted, Ankara and Dalaman pages


Maybe they are not after transfers but rather they are trying to improve aircraft utilization. My guess is there isn't much competition so they can get away with such schedules. I mean many might rather arrive in the middle of the night than to transfer in IST.
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:49 pm

ankaraflyjet wrote:
Yes, this is true, secondary markets in Turkey always get this rotation from short to medium haul network by Turkish operators to serve for those markets instead of keeping the plane idle in Europe or Middle East. ESB is getting popular for red eye flights latey for this reason but can't complain, assuming that a year ago there was no direct service between the capital cities of UK and Turkey today there is two flights pw between LGW and ESB, Sun Express does seasonal Luton ESB and thrice weekly year-round Pegasus service to STN is coming in April. The jewel in the Nile is still unserved though that is LHR ESB and TK is reluctant to allocate a slot from existing 7 daily between LHR and IST and is unlikely to get additional slots at LHR. This leaves BA as the only candidate to do the route but that seems unlikely in the coming few years with their Brexit wars on the way…

London Ankara was the biggest unserved market for many years and at least this problem seems to be solved for the time being even though more frequency will be essential particularly by TK.

ESB still needs direct BRU, AMS, DXB, CPH, ZRH, GVA, on a year-round basis too. Can't understand how KLM did not return to ESB...

Blerg wrote:
ankaraflyjet wrote:
Thrice weekly Ankara London Stansted Ankara schedule by Pegasus is as follows

2-4-6 STN ESB 20:40 02:25 (+next day arrival)
3-5-7 ESB STN 04:05 06:20

Quite a red eye flight in each direction and limited transfer to/from ESB for inward/outbound domestic Turkey network of Pegasus at ESB unless you widen transit to more than 5 hours !!!



Maybe they are not after transfers but rather they are trying to improve aircraft utilization. My guess is there isn't much competition so they can get away with such schedules. I mean many might rather arrive in the middle of the night than to transfer in IST.


I noticed Wizz Air considerably boosted both LCA and ATH which are more or less the same flying distance as ESB from Luton. I wonder if we might see them launch Ankara in the near future. After all, they have the perfect aircraft for the route (A321neo).
 
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ankaraflyjet
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:36 pm

WizzAir would not step into ESB in my opinion as the pax profile between LCA and ESB are totally different. WizzAir relies on resident EU citizens in either direction as well as British package holiday tourists whereas ESB market caters for mainly Turkish diaspora that is more prone to flying a Turkish operator (i.e. Pegasus, THY etc.) BA seems to be the only logical operator from UK to ESB as they also have the North American feed and global network to make a niche market like ESB work commercially feasible for a UK operator. However BA will not utilize a LHR slot for ESB and will prefer to utilize a slot for a North American destination as you know BA keeps most intra-European flights in order to preserve its slot allocation in LHR not that the routes are actually so profitable. There is a solution to this actually that I discussed here before but BA is not moving on that front.

It is a wider topic actually, a bıt about BA's European service and its diminishing position in certain premium markets like IST and ESB. BA has lost considerable ground in Turkey over the years due to many factors but most importantly due to a very competitive THY service. A service level that BA cannot compete by selling M&S sandwich on board. Turkey is at the SE flank of Europe so flights are above 3 hours and 30 minutes, you need to feed people and 3 hours and 30 minutes is not good for a sandwich to be sold. Also at our times people expect screen which short-haul BA fleet does not have. TK offers a 777 with Trans-Atlantic configuration fleet to/from LHR, free hot meals, free wine, free movies with personal touch screen at every seat etc where BA offers no screen, (not even to Business class), food and drinks for sale so you cannot compare the two…

Solution, BA reinstates the old LHR-IST-ESB-IST-LHR overnight service and utilizes a wide body aircraft with hot food service on these flights, BA can do this as they do that on flights to Moscow and Tel Aviv so if BA believes the market is there they will do so. By reinstating the route as it was in late 80'ies and 90'ies they do not sacrifice a slot for ESB at LHR and just extend the evening flight from LHR to IST onward to ESB, crew overnights in Ankara instead of IST, following morning departure initiates at ESB and then onward to IST and LHR. BA will capture premium pax load between ESB and UK and North America (IAD, JK, YYZ, YUL are very high loads from ESB) as well as BA can at least compete on the LHR IST segment with TK that offers an all wide body service nowadays with A350 also coming in shortly to supplement 777.

Anyhow long topic to discuss BA service and policy as BA today is competing with LCC's rather than ME3 or premium airlines...May be we can continue at another forum where BA issues are discussed...

Blerg wrote:
ankaraflyjet wrote:
Yes, this is true, secondary markets in Turkey always get this rotation from short to medium haul network by Turkish operators to serve for those markets instead of keeping the plane idle in Europe or Middle East. ESB is getting popular for red eye flights latey for this reason but can't complain, assuming that a year ago there was no direct service between the capital cities of UK and Turkey today there is two flights pw between LGW and ESB, Sun Express does seasonal Luton ESB and thrice weekly year-round Pegasus service to STN is coming in April. The jewel in the Nile is still unserved though that is LHR ESB and TK is reluctant to allocate a slot from existing 7 daily between LHR and IST and is unlikely to get additional slots at LHR. This leaves BA as the only candidate to do the route but that seems unlikely in the coming few years with their Brexit wars on the way…

London Ankara was the biggest unserved market for many years and at least this problem seems to be solved for the time being even though more frequency will be essential particularly by TK.

ESB still needs direct BRU, AMS, DXB, CPH, ZRH, GVA, on a year-round basis too. Can't understand how KLM did not return to ESB...

Blerg wrote:

Maybe they are not after transfers but rather they are trying to improve aircraft utilization. My guess is there isn't much competition so they can get away with such schedules. I mean many might rather arrive in the middle of the night than to transfer in IST.


I noticed Wizz Air considerably boosted both LCA and ATH which are more or less the same flying distance as ESB from Luton. I wonder if we might see them launch Ankara in the near future. After all, they have the perfect aircraft for the route (A321neo).
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:00 pm

ankaraflyjet wrote:
WizzAir would not step into ESB in my opinion as the pax profile between LCA and ESB are totally different. WizzAir relies on resident EU citizens in either direction as well as British package holiday tourists whereas ESB market caters for mainly Turkish diaspora that is more prone to flying a Turkish operator (i.e. Pegasus, THY etc.) BA seems to be the only logical operator from UK to ESB as they also have the North American feed and global network to make a niche market like ESB work commercially feasible for a UK operator. However BA will not utilize a LHR slot for ESB and will prefer to utilize a slot for a North American destination as you know BA keeps most intra-European flights in order to preserve its slot allocation in LHR not that the routes are actually so profitable. There is a solution to this actually that I discussed here before but BA is not moving on that front.

It is a wider topic actually, a bıt about BA's European service and its diminishing position in certain premium markets like IST and ESB. BA has lost considerable ground in Turkey over the years due to many factors but most importantly due to a very competitive THY service. A service level that BA cannot compete by selling M&S sandwich on board. Turkey is at the SE flank of Europe so flights are above 3 hours and 30 minutes, you need to feed people and 3 hours and 30 minutes is not good for a sandwich to be sold. Also at our times people expect screen which short-haul BA fleet does not have. TK offers a 777 with Trans-Atlantic configuration fleet to/from LHR, free hot meals, free wine, free movies with personal touch screen at every seat etc where BA offers no screen, (not even to Business class), food and drinks for sale so you cannot compare the two…

Solution, BA reinstates the old LHR-IST-ESB-IST-LHR overnight service and utilizes a wide body aircraft with hot food service on these flights, BA can do this as they do that on flights to Moscow and Tel Aviv so if BA believes the market is there they will do so. By reinstating the route as it was in late 80'ies and 90'ies they do not sacrifice a slot for ESB at LHR and just extend the evening flight from LHR to IST onward to ESB, crew overnights in Ankara instead of IST, following morning departure initiates at ESB and then onward to IST and LHR. BA will capture premium pax load between ESB and UK and North America (IAD, JK, YYZ, YUL are very high loads from ESB) as well as BA can at least compete on the LHR IST segment with TK that offers an all wide body service nowadays with A350 also coming in shortly to supplement 777.

Anyhow long topic to discuss BA service and policy as BA today is competing with LCC's rather than ME3 or premium airlines...May be we can continue at another forum where BA issues are discussed...

Blerg wrote:
ankaraflyjet wrote:
Yes, this is true, secondary markets in Turkey always get this rotation from short to medium haul network by Turkish operators to serve for those markets instead of keeping the plane idle in Europe or Middle East. ESB is getting popular for red eye flights latey for this reason but can't complain, assuming that a year ago there was no direct service between the capital cities of UK and Turkey today there is two flights pw between LGW and ESB, Sun Express does seasonal Luton ESB and thrice weekly year-round Pegasus service to STN is coming in April. The jewel in the Nile is still unserved though that is LHR ESB and TK is reluctant to allocate a slot from existing 7 daily between LHR and IST and is unlikely to get additional slots at LHR. This leaves BA as the only candidate to do the route but that seems unlikely in the coming few years with their Brexit wars on the way…

London Ankara was the biggest unserved market for many years and at least this problem seems to be solved for the time being even though more frequency will be essential particularly by TK.

ESB still needs direct BRU, AMS, DXB, CPH, ZRH, GVA, on a year-round basis too. Can't understand how KLM did not return to ESB...



I noticed Wizz Air considerably boosted both LCA and ATH which are more or less the same flying distance as ESB from Luton. I wonder if we might see them launch Ankara in the near future. After all, they have the perfect aircraft for the route (A321neo).


Ok but you don't think a three weekly LTN-ESB could work on the A320? I mean Wizz Air has a lot of planes based in Georgia which has much less demand than Ankara.
 
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ankaraflyjet
Posts: 475
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:34 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:06 pm

I really don't know, no LCC tried this before other than SunExpress, may be they should try and we all see what happens...

Blerg wrote:
ankaraflyjet wrote:
WizzAir would not step into ESB in my opinion as the pax profile between LCA and ESB are totally different. WizzAir relies on resident EU citizens in either direction as well as British package holiday tourists whereas ESB market caters for mainly Turkish diaspora that is more prone to flying a Turkish operator (i.e. Pegasus, THY etc.) BA seems to be the only logical operator from UK to ESB as they also have the North American feed and global network to make a niche market like ESB work commercially feasible for a UK operator. However BA will not utilize a LHR slot for ESB and will prefer to utilize a slot for a North American destination as you know BA keeps most intra-European flights in order to preserve its slot allocation in LHR not that the routes are actually so profitable. There is a solution to this actually that I discussed here before but BA is not moving on that front.

It is a wider topic actually, a bıt about BA's European service and its diminishing position in certain premium markets like IST and ESB. BA has lost considerable ground in Turkey over the years due to many factors but most importantly due to a very competitive THY service. A service level that BA cannot compete by selling M&S sandwich on board. Turkey is at the SE flank of Europe so flights are above 3 hours and 30 minutes, you need to feed people and 3 hours and 30 minutes is not good for a sandwich to be sold. Also at our times people expect screen which short-haul BA fleet does not have. TK offers a 777 with Trans-Atlantic configuration fleet to/from LHR, free hot meals, free wine, free movies with personal touch screen at every seat etc where BA offers no screen, (not even to Business class), food and drinks for sale so you cannot compare the two…

Solution, BA reinstates the old LHR-IST-ESB-IST-LHR overnight service and utilizes a wide body aircraft with hot food service on these flights, BA can do this as they do that on flights to Moscow and Tel Aviv so if BA believes the market is there they will do so. By reinstating the route as it was in late 80'ies and 90'ies they do not sacrifice a slot for ESB at LHR and just extend the evening flight from LHR to IST onward to ESB, crew overnights in Ankara instead of IST, following morning departure initiates at ESB and then onward to IST and LHR. BA will capture premium pax load between ESB and UK and North America (IAD, JK, YYZ, YUL are very high loads from ESB) as well as BA can at least compete on the LHR IST segment with TK that offers an all wide body service nowadays with A350 also coming in shortly to supplement 777.

Anyhow long topic to discuss BA service and policy as BA today is competing with LCC's rather than ME3 or premium airlines...May be we can continue at another forum where BA issues are discussed...

Blerg wrote:

I noticed Wizz Air considerably boosted both LCA and ATH which are more or less the same flying distance as ESB from Luton. I wonder if we might see them launch Ankara in the near future. After all, they have the perfect aircraft for the route (A321neo).


Ok but you don't think a three weekly LTN-ESB could work on the A320? I mean Wizz Air has a lot of planes based in Georgia which has much less demand than Ankara.
 
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AirbusA343
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:54 pm

TC-LOL is back in IST now after its incident in Port Harcourt not too long ago.
 
TK773ER
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:47 am

TK's 2019 figures are starting to come thru not sure how accurate this is THY flies 74.3M in 2019 1.1% down from 2018 https://www.dailysabah.com/tourism/2020 ... max-crisis Also apart from Malabo, Equatorial Guinea, Tokyo's Haneda Airport, Newark, New Jersey and Vancouver, Canada , Is there any other International Destinations that TK can open up this year...

Selamlar
 
Blerg
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:20 am

Seems like TK will be switching most of the flights out of SAW to Anadoloujet.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... et-in-s20/
 
aldrigsomandre
Posts: 341
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:23 am

With competitive pricing, AnadoluJet can do really well at SAW I reckon.
 
leftyboarder
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:00 am

Wizzair or Ryanair cannot fly UK-Turkey, as Turkey doesn't have open skies with the EU. Was discussed here before. only Easyjet can fly UK-Turkey as they have a UK AOC. Who knows what the situation will be after Brexit with AOC arrangements but I doubt we will see EU LCCs in Turkey unless TK releases its objections to an open skies.
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:25 am

leftyboarder wrote:
Wizzair or Ryanair cannot fly UK-Turkey, as Turkey doesn't have open skies with the EU. Was discussed here before. only Easyjet can fly UK-Turkey as they have a UK AOC. Who knows what the situation will be after Brexit with AOC arrangements but I doubt we will see EU LCCs in Turkey unless TK releases its objections to an open skies.


Wizz Air has a British AOC so they could launch flights to Turkey if they wanted to. I guess they are still struggling with fleet shortages and lack of space at Luton.
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:33 pm

Here you can see pictures of TK's first A350 in the assembly line:

https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronews/
 
MoonC
Posts: 294
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:04 pm

Blerg wrote:
Here you can see pictures of TK's first A350 in the assembly line:

https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronews/


Images taken from here: https://twitter.com/BilalEksiTHY/status/1215988303092244480
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:21 pm

aldrigsomandre wrote:
With competitive pricing, AnadoluJet can do really well at SAW I reckon.


If and when AnadoluJet ends up with a fleet of 57 738s, the average fleet age will be around 13 years. (I am assuming they will inherit most of the aged 738s in TK's red tail fleet).

Do you really think they can adequately compete against Pegasus's much younger fleet (now aged around 5 years) and formed by 320/321neo's?
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:10 pm

mafaky wrote:
aldrigsomandre wrote:
With competitive pricing, AnadoluJet can do really well at SAW I reckon.


If and when AnadoluJet ends up with a fleet of 57 738s, the average fleet age will be around 13 years. (I am assuming they will inherit most of the aged 738s in TK's red tail fleet).

Do you really think they can adequately compete against Pegasus's much younger fleet (now aged around 5 years) and formed by 320/321neo's?


Could it be that TK is using Anadoloujet mostly to hamper or slow down Pegasus' growth? Isn't SAW slot congested?
 
aldrigsomandre
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:30 am

Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:15 pm

mafaky wrote:
aldrigsomandre wrote:
With competitive pricing, AnadoluJet can do really well at SAW I reckon.


If and when AnadoluJet ends up with a fleet of 57 738s, the average fleet age will be around 13 years. (I am assuming they will inherit most of the aged 738s in TK's red tail fleet).

Do you really think they can adequately compete against Pegasus's much younger fleet (now aged around 5 years) and formed by 320/321neo's?


I think the price-conscious public could drift towards an AnadoluJet offering given they also have free snacks on-board.
I guess we'll see in due time.
 
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TK787
Topic Author
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:23 pm

mafaky wrote:
aldrigsomandre wrote:
With competitive pricing, AnadoluJet can do really well at SAW I reckon.


If and when AnadoluJet ends up with a fleet of 57 738s, the average fleet age will be around 13 years. (I am assuming they will inherit most of the aged 738s in TK's red tail fleet).

Do you really think they can adequately compete against Pegasus's much younger fleet (now aged around 5 years) and formed by 320/321neo's?

I can say with pretty good confidence that 99.9% of the pax in Turkey will not know the difference between a 13 yrs old 738 and a 5 yrs old NEO.
This move is not only trying to challenge Pegasus at SAW, but trying gain back TK mainline pax back to IST.
I for one, will not fly with AJET out of SAW and go out of my way to IST to fly mainline TK :(
 
AirAY
Posts: 18
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:41 am

when can we expected the deliveries of the additional frames?
• 15 Boeing 737–800 ex Norwegian and Ryanair
ex EI-ESR to TC-JZJ, ex EI-ESZ to TC-JZK, EI-ESY to TC-JZL all are ex Ryanair and are located for AnadoluJet
ex LN-NGU to TC–JZM, ex LN–NGQ, LN–NGV, LN–NGW for Anadolujet, ex LN-NGU to TC–JZN is currently ops for Turkish Airlines in full cs
• 4 Airbus A321
• 2 Airbus A319–132 lsd Carlyle Aviation Partners (msn 4282 & 4301) currently in maintenance at ISE (Isparta Airport)
Also there‘s a rumor about an additional Airbus A319–112 (msn 5085)
 
EalingFeeling
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:54 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:27 am

According to @SeanM1997, Turkish Airlines are to start a daily Dalaman - London Gatwick flight from 25 May 2020

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/12 ... 00064?s=19

As Pegasus are moving their Dalaman - London flight from Gatwick to Stansted, it would significantly improve the connectivity to Dalaman in 2020

Dalaman will be served by 7 airlines to London in Summer 2020:
- British Airways - London Gatwick
- British Airways - London Heathrow (begins 23 May)
- easyJet - London Gatwick
- easyJet - London Luton
- easyJet - London Stansted
- Jet2 - London Stansted
- Pegasus Airlines - London Stansted (begins 4 May)
- TUI - London Gatwick
- TUI - London Luton
- TUI - London Stansted
- Turkish Airlines - London Gatwick (begins 25 May)
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:34 am

What will Anadolou do with all those jets? Will they station them in SAW or will they use them for charter traffic from the coast? Seems like they are starting to aggressively expand.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:45 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
When Atlas Global suspended ops, they ended Zonguldak's only international routes. Since resuming flights, Atlas Global no longer operate to Zonguldak

I know there are flights with TK to IST, but is there likely to be anything more ? Perhaps SunExpress ?


International flights from Zonguldak. Now I understand why they were in financial trouble.
 
TK773ER
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:24 am

Should TK be interested in some of these A350 ? https://twitter.com/a350blog?lang=en , Currently nine are stored in LDE possibly looking for new homes.

The situation with TK are they looking for more WB now or sticking with Airbus slots ? I mean instead of 5 A350 this year they can have up to 10+ which could help with some routes that are to much for 77W and also be almost on par with 789 deliveries this year thoughts ?
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:35 am

EalingFeeling wrote:

Dalaman will be served by 7 airlines to London in Summer 2020:

I am really liking this. I remember DLM being a tiny airport.
I see many JFK-London-DLM in the future :)
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:53 pm

Talking about SAW, AnadoluJet, DLM.....
I just checked some fares from SAW to DLM midsummer.... and...
On a weekday, TK mainline has 5 x Daily SAW-DLM and Anadolujet has 3 X Daily flights
Weekend; TK has 6 x Daily mainline and Anadolujet has 7 x Daily flights.
Crazy thing is ALL AJet flights have one fare; 449TL ($75 one way), whereas TK mainline fares range from 149TL to 449TL in different classes.
Might be a mistake, I hope so.
 
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albertocsc
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:41 pm

leftyboarder wrote:
Wizzair or Ryanair cannot fly UK-Turkey, as Turkey doesn't have open skies with the EU. Was discussed here before. only Easyjet can fly UK-Turkey as they have a UK AOC. Who knows what the situation will be after Brexit with AOC arrangements but I doubt we will see EU LCCs in Turkey unless TK releases its objections to an open skies.


Ryanair UK has already slots for Turkey coastal destinations (AYT, BJV, DLM) from last Stansted allocation. But routes have not been announced so far.

Ryanair DAC operated also some Thomas Cook rescue flights to Turkey, so maybe this made them more interested in the country.
 
aldrigsomandre
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:50 pm

leftyboarder wrote:
Wizzair or Ryanair cannot fly UK-Turkey, as Turkey doesn't have open skies with the EU. Was discussed here before. only Easyjet can fly UK-Turkey as they have a UK AOC. Who knows what the situation will be after Brexit with AOC arrangements but I doubt we will see EU LCCs in Turkey unless TK releases its objections to an open skies.


This is incorrect.

Wizz Air has a UK subsidiary with an AOC that would allow it to operate UK-TR flights, along with HU-TR flights.
Ryanair, on the other hand, has Austria, UK, Malta, Poland and Irish business units and has recently become a holding company as the larger Ryanair Group. It would be able to operate flights originating out of all of these countries, given that the aircraft operating the flight is registered in the country of flight origin.
Same goes for EasyJet as well as they have subsidiaries in the UK, Switzerland and Austria, so they'd be able to operate flights to Turkey originating from these aforementioned countries.

With the AOC diversification trend that we have been seeing in Europe, it would, in theory, be possible to see many low cost airlines operating to Turkey from different destinations in Europe.

I reckon the Turkish public might even start seeing LEVEL aircraft in the very near future.
 
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AirbusA343
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:21 pm

TK has filed some changes to some of its European routes for the summer, I'm quite surprised by it if you want me to be honest!

The highlights:
TK to launch a 2 weekly flight from Antalya to Birmingham from June 3rd
Hamburg to get a daily A330-300, I wasn't expecting that.
Ljubljana to go twice daily A321 with A330-300s in October.

My personal highlight; TK to add yet another flight to Madrid, now up to 25x weekly from 9th June. This only got its 3rd daily flight last summer, so that sure does say a lot about the performance of this fast-growing route. If I remember correctly, this route was 737-800/-900ER not that many years ago? Now it will have 14x A333 and 11x 737 (the app says 737-800 but the usual 737-900ER (high density) routes all show as 737-800 so who knows.)

On the other hand, quite a few routes will have capacity cuts.

Read more from this source: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/288738/turkish-airlines-s20-europerussia-service-changes-as-of-13jan20/?highlight=turkish%20airlines
 
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ankaraflyjet
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:00 pm

THY decision is more political than commercial in my opinion as the motive is for new IST airport to prosper and be the sole desitnation for premium market. Eversince Atatürk Airport was closed the consumer trend proved that most people in metro-Istanbul prefer SAW over IST due to proximity to city center particulaly those residing on the Aisan side. I personally do not like the AnadoluJet business model, it was tried at ESB before and did not become very popular. AnadoluJet is not ready yet to compete in LCC sector in international markets with Pegasus either, Pegasus has a developed market and service offered from catering to seat assignment and various travel tools and instruments offered whereby AnadoluJet is pursuing a free lousy sandwich and tea service that I am not sure will be good enough for flights over 2 hours. AnadoluJet will have to set out a new product line, catering service (most probably at cost), betterr website etc.

I also have to emphasize that surprisingly AnadoluJet does not pursue LCC prices either, if you look at their prices ex-ESB they are same as TK's ex-IST prices on most routes that are operated by mainline THY fleet. AnadoluJet is abusing its dominant role in underserved markets and taking advantage of protectionism in favor of THY. If anti-trust laws would be applied fairly in Turkey AnadoluJet would have to pay a lot of penalties on their price strategy actually. They are lucky that Turkey is not part of EU as of yet and they can spoil things over and over. I do not think this will change until the time that AnadoluJet will become an autonomous airline from THY, it is just a tool that THY is using to discipline/regulate/dominate certain markets in Turkey.

This move by TK will trigger LH, BA and AF/KL to start flights to SAW from their respective hubs in my opinion as TK is leaving the premium market Westbound. I think TK will be quite disturbed by this as they underestimate the potential there. Eastbound QR, Emirates etc. fill the gap so not much is expected on my side.

Overall great news for Pegasus also, AnadoluJet offers definitely an inferior product and will make it easier for them to compete.

Last bu not least Pegasus should start long-haul to North America and Far East from SAW, I am sure this will be in the cards soon…

Blerg wrote:
Seems like TK will be switching most of the flights out of SAW to Anadoloujet.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... et-in-s20/
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:05 pm

Wow, I just looked at some fares yesterday as you can recall, but according to this article TK mainline is leaving SAW altogether and AnadoluJet will take over all the Domestic and International TK flights at SAW.... Wow!!!
https://www.airporthaber.com/thy-haberl ... rakti.html
 
juliuswong
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:10 am

Fleet Update:
Airbus A320-232 2164 EC-NHN Wamos Air for delivery 1q20 ex ISL (+ 2395 EC-NHO ex TC-JUG) ex TC-JUF
Source: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:31 am

TK787 wrote:
Wow, I just looked at some fares yesterday as you can recall, but according to this article TK mainline is leaving SAW altogether and AnadoluJet will take over all the Domestic and International TK flights at SAW.... Wow!!!
https://www.airporthaber.com/thy-haberl ... rakti.html


I did like the few comments on that article. Especially the one, attributed to Albert Einstein:
"(It's stupid/futile) to try the same things over and over again but expect different results each time!" :lol: :lol:

For those who can follow in Turkish, there's another interesting article on TK's SAW ventures, in chronological order. Pls. see:

https://www.havayolu101.com/2020/01/14/ ... -hikayesi/
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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Mystic
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:40 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:50 pm

According to havarenamedya

The 3rd runway is going into service 18 june. This will bring taxi time down to normal.
Also they're announcing to build a capsule hotel and some more news.
Former HeyTK
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:54 pm

Yes, in recent news it was announced that the 3rd runway at IST might open in 5 months time but shortened from 3750m to 3000m. I am not sure if they will eventually extend it to 3750m. This will hopefully shorten the taxi times for the Domestic flights for the busy summer season.
Hotels, IIRC, I posted previously that there will be 3-4 more hotels, averaging 1500 rooms in different service levels.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:46 am

TK787 wrote:
Yes, in recent news it was announced that the 3rd runway at IST might open in 5 months time but shortened from 3750m to 3000m. I am not sure if they will eventually extend it to 3750m. This will hopefully shorten the taxi times for the Domestic flights for the busy summer season.
Hotels, IIRC, I posted previously that there will be 3-4 more hotels, averaging 1500 rooms in different service levels.


I also doubt that they will ever complete that third runway to the 3.750 mt length as given in the Contract. They will find a way to doctor the Contract as they have done before (several times...).

As for the hotel business: The below mentioned "Capsule Hotel" will be located inside the Terminal building. But there will be 3 real size hotels (one 3 star, one 4 star and one 5 star, the last one also having a 1500 guest capacity Ballroom) to be built in one corner of the Airport City (Core Zone). Actually it will be a "complex of hotels". Airport City (Core Zone) is the "commercial area" behind the Terminal & Carpark. There will be other commercial facilities (like a mall, office buildings, etc.) to be built on this land. IGA will built the hotel buildings in raw form. The furnishing and installation of various systems, etc. will be done by the hotel groups (expected to be one or more of the International chains, possibly those specialising in Airport Hotels. So these three hotels will not be too far away from the Terminal; merely at around 700-1000 mt. distance.
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:05 am

Latest News is that SHGM (Directorate ofTurkish Civil Aviation) will no longer grant any further slots to Istanbul'sSabiha Gökçen (SAW) AP due to the present day congestion.

A cunningly clever decision to divert all future traffic to IST until the 2nd rwy and the 2nd terminal will be operational, say by the end of 2022.

But, starting 2023 you will start seeing "airport wars" at Istanbul. And from this, both IGA but mostly THY will be suffering.

IGA, actually does not care much for the annual pax traffic (as long as it is present at a reasonable/acceptable label...) and they are not much affected by the Passenger ServiceFees and the State's guarantee in that issue. Their other incomes (rents from the various sales outlets inside the terminal, rents they collect when leasing land to 3rd parties (like THY, Do&Co, DHL, UPS, other ground handling & logistics companies) so those can construct their facilities, and finally the many variable misc. charges they collect from airlines [where DHMI used to collect such charges in other airports...], etc. etc.) far surpass the Pax Service Fees side of the picture. They have made their contracts with the tenants in such a way that they are guaranteed to receive what they want/need. And there seems to be no limits for greed, at IGA administration. For example, they have contracted the Duty-Free Sales to Uni-Free. Let's assume that they have made the contract for €500.000/month leasing fee (this figure is only an assumption; have no idea about the real figure...). Even if Uni-Free cannot make enough sales that month, they still pay that €500.000. Plus if Uni-Free goes above a certain pre-determined level in sales volume, IGA also collects some good percentage of that extra amount. (Exact figures, also undisclosed...) Good business, eh???
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
aytdxb
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:23 am

mafaky wrote:
Latest News is that SHGM (Directorate ofTurkish Civil Aviation) will no longer grant any further slots to Istanbul'sSabiha Gökçen (SAW) AP due to the present day congestion.

A cunningly clever decision to divert all future traffic to IST until the 2nd rwy and the 2nd terminal will be operational, say by the end of 2022.

But, starting 2023 you will start seeing "airport wars" at Istanbul. And from this, both IGA but mostly THY will be suffering.

IGA, actually does not care much for the annual pax traffic (as long as it is present at a reasonable/acceptable label...) and they are not much affected by the Passenger ServiceFees and the State's guarantee in that issue. Their other incomes (rents from the various sales outlets inside the terminal, rents they collect when leasing land to 3rd parties (like THY, Do&Co, DHL, UPS, other ground handling & logistics companies) so those can construct their facilities, and finally the many variable misc. charges they collect from airlines [where DHMI used to collect such charges in other airports...], etc. etc.) far surpass the Pax Service Fees side of the picture. They have made their contracts with the tenants in such a way that they are guaranteed to receive what they want/need. And there seems to be no limits for greed, at IGA administration. For example, they have contracted the Duty-Free Sales to Uni-Free. Let's assume that they have made the contract for €500.000/month leasing fee (this figure is only an assumption; have no idea about the real figure...). Even if Uni-Free cannot make enough sales that month, they still pay that €500.000. Plus if Uni-Free goes above a certain pre-determined level in sales volume, IGA also collects some good percentage of that extra amount. (Exact figures, also undisclosed...) Good business, eh???


Pegasus shares down almost 5 % after this news. Although this decision seems quite political to support IGA, I appreciate it as a well from a passenger point of view. SAW at peak times became unbearable. Existing terminal cannot accommodate any further load. Forgive my metaphor but it is almost like a refugee camp during mornings and evenings between 7 to 10pm. All outlets are packed, no where to sit, toilets are full and naturally dirty due to the over usage.
New runway and terminal must have been completed long time ago. Now, what will Pegasus do with all brand new planes arriving this year, i am not sure. Some of them will replace aging 737-800's but rest?

on a side note, pegasus allocated one of their two A321neo's on saw-dxb route. Since I take this route weekly, I am quite happy with this, as it is very quite and comfy plane. But the seat pitch is even worse than 737's and 320's I believe. I dont mind since I am not a very tall person but I am sure many are suffering on this almost 5 hours route.
 
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ankaraflyjet
Posts: 475
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:27 am

Pegasus can develop ESB as a secondary hub may be until SAW is restricted this can help add additional potential for growth. Pegasus may also well look into acquiring some wide body a/c (i.e. A330) on ceratin havy demand routes and can increase pax without additinal slots, a wide body in a high density configuration would work well in SAW BJV, SAW AYT, SAW ADB rotations actually.


aytdxb wrote:
mafaky wrote:
Latest News is that SHGM (Directorate ofTurkish Civil Aviation) will no longer grant any further slots to Istanbul'sSabiha Gökçen (SAW) AP due to the present day congestion.

A cunningly clever decision to divert all future traffic to IST until the 2nd rwy and the 2nd terminal will be operational, say by the end of 2022.

But, starting 2023 you will start seeing "airport wars" at Istanbul. And from this, both IGA but mostly THY will be suffering.

IGA, actually does not care much for the annual pax traffic (as long as it is present at a reasonable/acceptable label...) and they are not much affected by the Passenger ServiceFees and the State's guarantee in that issue. Their other incomes (rents from the various sales outlets inside the terminal, rents they collect when leasing land to 3rd parties (like THY, Do&Co, DHL, UPS, other ground handling & logistics companies) so those can construct their facilities, and finally the many variable misc. charges they collect from airlines [where DHMI used to collect such charges in other airports...], etc. etc.) far surpass the Pax Service Fees side of the picture. They have made their contracts with the tenants in such a way that they are guaranteed to receive what they want/need. And there seems to be no limits for greed, at IGA administration. For example, they have contracted the Duty-Free Sales to Uni-Free. Let's assume that they have made the contract for €500.000/month leasing fee (this figure is only an assumption; have no idea about the real figure...). Even if Uni-Free cannot make enough sales that month, they still pay that €500.000. Plus if Uni-Free goes above a certain pre-determined level in sales volume, IGA also collects some good percentage of that extra amount. (Exact figures, also undisclosed...) Good business, eh???


Pegasus shares down almost 5 % after this news. Although this decision seems quite political to support IGA, I appreciate it as a well from a passenger point of view. SAW at peak times became unbearable. Existing terminal cannot accommodate any further load. Forgive my metaphor but it is almost like a refugee camp during mornings and evenings between 7 to 10pm. All outlets are packed, no where to sit, toilets are full and naturally dirty due to the over usage.
New runway and terminal must have been completed long time ago. Now, what will Pegasus do with all brand new planes arriving this year, i am not sure. Some of them will replace aging 737-800's but rest?

on a side note, pegasus allocated one of their two A321neo's on saw-dxb route. Since I take this route weekly, I am quite happy with this, as it is very quite and comfy plane. But the seat pitch is even worse than 737's and 320's I believe. I dont mind since I am not a very tall person but I am sure many are suffering on this almost 5 hours route.
 
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TK787
Topic Author
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Re: Turkish Aviation January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:15 pm

Can't imagine Pegasus going long haul or start a hub at ESB.
What if they go challenge TK at IST first, even though it doesn't make sense and it would be costly.
In short term, Pegasus might go to more 321s and increase capacity that way.
But Turkish pax are not stupid and they will remember this ploy.

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