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AVENSAB727
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Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:26 pm

Another year passes by as 2019 draws to a close and 2020 is on the approach. 2019 has been a pretty successful year for both IAH and HOU as both have had growth and had new destinations added.

Highlights from 2019:
    Ethiopian Airlines launches IAH
    The Terminal D Renovation/Rebuild finally breaks ground
    IAH celebrated its 50th Birthday
    United announces IAH-GEG
    Southwest announces Cozumel and Nassau both launching in 2020!

Predictions for 2020:
    UA at IAH goes from 600-700 departures daily
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/unit ... notes.html
    TAP, Air India, or another new carrier launches IAH
    UA adds another new international destination out of IAH, most likely to Latin America
    Southwest adds new destinations out of HOU, hopefully to PTY
Last edited by SQ22 on Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
jplatts
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:46 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Predictions for 2020:
    Southwest adds new destinations out of HOU, hopefully to PTY


WN adding nonstop service to CVG, CLE, DTW, MSP, and ONT out of HOU might happen with CVG, CLE, DTW, MSP, and ONT being five of the top domestic destinations that do not currently have nonstop service out of HOU on WN.

I had previously thought that WN adding HOU-SFO might happen with SFO being one of the top destinations that passengers were connecting to out of HOU on WN, but WN is less likely to add HOU-SFO nonstop service with WN recently increasing HOU-OAK to 3 daily nonstops, with WN dropping nonstop service to SFO out of AUS and DAL, and with WN reducing MKE-SFO seasonal nonstop service to Saturday-only in Summer 2020.

WN adding HOU-LGB nonstop service is also a possibility if WN acquires extra slots at LGB with HOU being one of the top destinations traveled to from LAX on WN that isn't currently served nonstop from LGB.

While it seems that WN pulling out of CRP might happen with CRP having the lowest load factors of any WN station in the U.S. in the January 2019 - September 2019 time period, I think that WN will probably continue to serve CRP nonstop from HOU with WN having served the CRP market for over 40 years. I am unsure why the demand for WN service out of CRP is weak when there is more demand for WN service out of markets that are smaller than population than CRP such as AMA, OGG, LBB, MAF, and ECP than there is out of CRP.

WN might possibly be able to get slightly better load factors out of CRP by adding additional domestic nonstop routes out of HOU such as HOU-CVG/CLE/DTW/MSP/ONT.
 
Okcflyer
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:09 am

If anyone has drawings / plans for the new shared checking and baggage space for new terminal D and existing terminal E, please share. Haven’t yet seen how this is to be done.

My route wishlist is IAH-GYE.
 
airlineaddict
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:28 am

Okcflyer wrote:
If anyone has drawings / plans for the new shared checking and baggage space for new terminal D and existing terminal E, please share. Haven’t yet seen how this is to be done.

My route wishlist is IAH-GYE.


Details are sparse. Here’s what the Houston Chronicle had during the ground breaking of Terminal D. Unfortunately, it only covered the shared checkin.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/IAH-to-break-ground-on-expanded-international-14542242.php
 
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SQ22
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:19 am

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?t=1411849
 
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United787
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:40 am

airlineaddict wrote:
Okcflyer wrote:
If anyone has drawings / plans for the new shared checking and baggage space for new terminal D and existing terminal E, please share. Haven’t yet seen how this is to be done.

My route wishlist is IAH-GYE.


Details are sparse. Here’s what the Houston Chronicle had during the ground breaking of Terminal D. Unfortunately, it only covered the shared checkin.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/IAH-to-break-ground-on-expanded-international-14542242.php


I am transiting through IAH today and noticed a closed concourse east of C1. Is that the project you are discussing above? Is the terminal including D1-12 being replaced also? Forgive me I am not too familiar with IAH.

Also, when was the concourse for C3-15 completed? Just flew out of C9, very impressed!
 
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drerx7
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:21 am

Yes, more or less. The old C North Concourse will be incorporated into the remodel/rebuild/expansion of the existing Terminal D.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:01 pm

I wonder if AV will decide to run BOG-IAH on their own metal anytime soon? If it were timed for connections to deep South America, I think they could attract passengers. As it is right now at IAH, if you aren't flying UA to South America, you are connecting over MIA, which most people try to avoid, except if costs are low. AM does offer some connection opportunities, but there is a hassle factor of connecting at MEX.
 
jph7291
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:33 pm

United787 wrote:
Also, when was the concourse for C3-15 completed? Just flew out of C9, very impressed!


Early 2017. It is a beautiful facility!
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slickvik
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:47 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
I wonder if AV will decide to run BOG-IAH on their own metal anytime soon? If it were timed for connections to deep South America, I think they could attract passengers. As it is right now at IAH, if you aren't flying UA to South America, you are connecting over MIA, which most people try to avoid, except if costs are low. AM does offer some connection opportunities, but there is a hassle factor of connecting at MEX.


Seems like UA has some pull to not allow AV and CM from starting flights to BOG and PTY.
 
slickvik
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:48 pm

jplatts wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
Predictions for 2020:
    Southwest adds new destinations out of HOU, hopefully to PTY


WN adding nonstop service to CVG, CLE, DTW, MSP, and ONT out of HOU might happen with CVG, CLE, DTW, MSP, and ONT being five of the top domestic destinations that do not currently have nonstop service out of HOU on WN.

I had previously thought that WN adding HOU-SFO might happen with SFO being one of the top destinations that passengers were connecting to out of HOU on WN, but WN is less likely to add HOU-SFO nonstop service with WN recently increasing HOU-OAK to 3 daily nonstops, with WN dropping nonstop service to SFO out of AUS and DAL, and with WN reducing MKE-SFO seasonal nonstop service to Saturday-only in Summer 2020.

WN adding HOU-LGB nonstop service is also a possibility if WN acquires extra slots at LGB with HOU being one of the top destinations traveled to from LAX on WN that isn't currently served nonstop from LGB.

While it seems that WN pulling out of CRP might happen with CRP having the lowest load factors of any WN station in the U.S. in the January 2019 - September 2019 time period, I think that WN will probably continue to serve CRP nonstop from HOU with WN having served the CRP market for over 40 years. I am unsure why the demand for WN service out of CRP is weak when there is more demand for WN service out of markets that are smaller than population than CRP such as AMA, OGG, LBB, MAF, and ECP than there is out of CRP.

WN might possibly be able to get slightly better load factors out of CRP by adding additional domestic nonstop routes out of HOU such as HOU-CVG/CLE/DTW/MSP/ONT.


I doubt CRP will ever be pulled. Seems like an issue of state pride more than anything to keep it running.
 
jplatts
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:17 pm

slickvik wrote:
I doubt CRP will ever be pulled. Seems like an issue of state pride more than anything to keep it running.


I agree with your point about WN not pulling out of CRP due to WN having served CRP for over 40 years and state pride, even with CRP having lower load factors on WN than any other WN station in the U.S. and with WN carrying fewer passengers out of CRP than out of any other WN station in the U.S. in the June 2019 - September 2019 time period.

In addition to the longstanding WN presence at CRP and state pride, CRP is also not served by DL or any ULCC's whereas most of the airports in the U.S. and Mexico that WN has pulled out of are still served by DL. In addition, a few airports no longer served by WN such as CAK, FNT, IAH, MEX, and EWR are still served by a LCC other than WN.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:23 pm

slickvik wrote:
IAHWorldflyer wrote:
I wonder if AV will decide to run BOG-IAH on their own metal anytime soon? If it were timed for connections to deep South America, I think they could attract passengers. As it is right now at IAH, if you aren't flying UA to South America, you are connecting over MIA, which most people try to avoid, except if costs are low. AM does offer some connection opportunities, but there is a hassle factor of connecting at MEX.


Seems like UA has some pull to not allow AV and CM from starting flights to BOG and PTY.



Yes, CO used to have a small ownership interest in CM, and CM did not compete with CO on flights to PTY if Ua flew that route. Not sure if UA has a similar agreement. AV seems a bit different, but they are entering *A, so I would hope they would make it to one of the largest Star hubs in the southwestern US, besides giving us their flight to SAL.
 
wxtech
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:29 pm

Did some quick addition of the IAH passenger stats....from dec of 2018 thru nov of 2019...just a shade over 45 million passengers. For the 11 months from jan 1 2019 to nov 30 2019 about 41.2 million passengers. Should be close as to if we reach 45 million for the calendar year for the first time. Based off numbers from the Houston Airport System website. .
 
Okcflyer
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:07 am

slickvik wrote:
IAHWorldflyer wrote:
I wonder if AV will decide to run BOG-IAH on their own metal anytime soon? If it were timed for connections to deep South America, I think they could attract passengers. As it is right now at IAH, if you aren't flying UA to South America, you are connecting over MIA, which most people try to avoid, except if costs are low. AM does offer some connection opportunities, but there is a hassle factor of connecting at MEX.


Seems like UA has some pull to not allow AV and CM from starting flights to BOG and PTY.


AV does fly IAH-SAL which connects most of the major Latin cities one-stop from Houston. Until the recent E190 retirements, that was the plane, so it’s likely to be low demand to be begin with. Adding BOG would likely kill that route off, make connections worse for Central American destinations, while adding very few major destinations not already served by SAL. UA has one of the major corporate contracts for the route, hence one turn is a 757 with lay flats. The other is 737-700. A 738 can fly the route, so that suggests local and connection demand isn’t very strong for even that small of an up-gauge. In short, I don’t think it’s worth it for AV to attempt the route.
 
COflyerBOS
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:31 am

AV to BOG would open up connections to cities like Armenia, Asunción, Barranquilla, Cali, Cartagena, Cusco, Guayaquil, La Paz, Medellin, Montevideo, and San Andres among others. Have no idea if there’s much demand but SAL offers very little to South America.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:36 am

COflyerBOS wrote:
AV to BOG would open up connections to cities like Armenia, Asunción, Barranquilla, Cali, Cartagena, Cusco, Guayaquil, La Paz, Medellin, Montevideo, and San Andres among others. Have no idea if there’s much demand but SAL offers very little to South America.


UA flies IAHBOG and allows those connections, which are largely minuscule local markets regardless.
a.
 
Airlines0613
Posts: 172
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:25 am

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
slickvik wrote:
IAHWorldflyer wrote:
I wonder if AV will decide to run BOG-IAH on their own metal anytime soon? If it were timed for connections to deep South America, I think they could attract passengers. As it is right now at IAH, if you aren't flying UA to South America, you are connecting over MIA, which most people try to avoid, except if costs are low. AM does offer some connection opportunities, but there is a hassle factor of connecting at MEX.


Seems like UA has some pull to not allow AV and CM from starting flights to BOG and PTY.



Yes, CO used to have a small ownership interest in CM, and CM did not compete with CO on flights to PTY if Ua flew that route. Not sure if UA has a similar agreement. AV seems a bit different, but they are entering *A, so I would hope they would make it to one of the largest Star hubs in the southwestern US, besides giving us their flight to SAL.

AV has been in StarAlliance for a couple of years already.
 
Airlines0613
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:06 am

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:27 am

Okcflyer wrote:
slickvik wrote:
IAHWorldflyer wrote:
I wonder if AV will decide to run BOG-IAH on their own metal anytime soon? If it were timed for connections to deep South America, I think they could attract passengers. As it is right now at IAH, if you aren't flying UA to South America, you are connecting over MIA, which most people try to avoid, except if costs are low. AM does offer some connection opportunities, but there is a hassle factor of connecting at MEX.


Seems like UA has some pull to not allow AV and CM from starting flights to BOG and PTY.


AV does fly IAH-SAL which connects most of the major Latin cities one-stop from Houston. Until the recent E190 retirements, that was the plane, so it’s likely to be low demand to be begin with. Adding BOG would likely kill that route off, make connections worse for Central American destinations, while adding very few major destinations not already served by SAL. UA has one of the major corporate contracts for the route, hence one turn is a 757 with lay flats. The other is 737-700. A 738 can fly the route, so that suggests local and connection demand isn’t very strong for even that small of an up-gauge. In short, I don’t think it’s worth it for AV to attempt the route.

AV has only one flight a day because UA has 4 daily flights to SAL. They codeshare and connect at SAL and IAH, so there’s no need to add flights. A flight from BOG will have little to no effect on the SAL flight because they cater different markets. There’s not that many connections to South America from SAL, it caters mostly Central American connections.
 
Okcflyer
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:38 am

Airlines0613 wrote:
Okcflyer wrote:
slickvik wrote:

Seems like UA has some pull to not allow AV and CM from starting flights to BOG and PTY.


AV does fly IAH-SAL which connects most of the major Latin cities one-stop from Houston. Until the recent E190 retirements, that was the plane, so it’s likely to be low demand to be begin with. Adding BOG would likely kill that route off, make connections worse for Central American destinations, while adding very few major destinations not already served by SAL. UA has one of the major corporate contracts for the route, hence one turn is a 757 with lay flats. The other is 737-700. A 738 can fly the route, so that suggests local and connection demand isn’t very strong for even that small of an up-gauge. In short, I don’t think it’s worth it for AV to attempt the route.

AV has only one flight a day because UA has 4 daily flights to SAL. They codeshare and connect at SAL and IAH, so there’s no need to add flights. A flight from BOG will have little to no effect on the SAL flight because they cater different markets. There’s not that many connections to South America from SAL, it caters mostly Central American connections.


I think there are more South American destinations than you think from SAL. It’s a smaller Copa/PTY.

The United BOG flights are aren’t useful for connections, they arrive far to late in the evening.

I go to GYE multiple times a year. I’ve gone on AV through SAL (via DFW instead of IAH, but IAH flight is nearly identical in timing) and via BOG, PTY, UIO, even LIM once.

Via BOG (and UIO, LIM) you wait overnight for the morning flight. Via SAL (or PTY) you’re there mid afternoon after leaving in the morning. SAL is the connecting hub for Houston traffic. BOG is O/D traffic.

For United, the AV-BOG discussion is a bit silly until they’re granted JV immunity because they already codeshare with Copa on about everything, and Copa’s timing and connectivity is generally superior to AV’s from either BOG or SAL. I almost always end up going via Copa.

Anyway, this is now off topic for the Houston thread. I think we all agree AV to BOG isn’t likely to happen soon.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:54 am

Okcflyer wrote:
Airlines0613 wrote:
Okcflyer wrote:

AV does fly IAH-SAL which connects most of the major Latin cities one-stop from Houston. Until the recent E190 retirements, that was the plane, so it’s likely to be low demand to be begin with. Adding BOG would likely kill that route off, make connections worse for Central American destinations, while adding very few major destinations not already served by SAL. UA has one of the major corporate contracts for the route, hence one turn is a 757 with lay flats. The other is 737-700. A 738 can fly the route, so that suggests local and connection demand isn’t very strong for even that small of an up-gauge. In short, I don’t think it’s worth it for AV to attempt the route.

AV has only one flight a day because UA has 4 daily flights to SAL. They codeshare and connect at SAL and IAH, so there’s no need to add flights. A flight from BOG will have little to no effect on the SAL flight because they cater different markets. There’s not that many connections to South America from SAL, it caters mostly Central American connections.


I think there are more South American destinations than you think from SAL. It’s a smaller Copa/PTY.

The United BOG flights are aren’t useful for connections, they arrive far to late in the evening.

I go to GYE multiple times a year. I’ve gone on AV through SAL (via DFW instead of IAH, but IAH flight is nearly identical in timing) and via BOG, PTY, UIO, even LIM once.

Via BOG (and UIO, LIM) you wait overnight for the morning flight. Via SAL (or PTY) you’re there mid afternoon after leaving in the morning. SAL is the connecting hub for Houston traffic. BOG is O/D traffic.

For United, the AV-BOG discussion is a bit silly until they’re granted JV immunity because they already codeshare with Copa on about everything, and Copa’s timing and connectivity is generally superior to AV’s from either BOG or SAL. I almost always end up going via Copa.

Anyway, this is now off topic for the Houston thread. I think we all agree AV to BOG isn’t likely to happen soon.


IAH-SAL is much, much larger than IAH-BOG in O&D though they’re both big.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:55 am

[twoid][/twoid]
MAH4546 wrote:
COflyerBOS wrote:
AV to BOG would open up connections to cities like Armenia, Asunción, Barranquilla, Cali, Cartagena, Cusco, Guayaquil, La Paz, Medellin, Montevideo, and San Andres among others. Have no idea if there’s much demand but SAL offers very little to South America.


UA flies IAHBOG and allows those connections, which are largely minuscule local markets regardless.


IAH-CLO isn’t small. I don’t think it’ll get it’s own flight, but I wouldn’t call it small.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
bluecrew
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:15 am

jplatts wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
Predictions for 2020:
    Southwest adds new destinations out of HOU, hopefully to PTY


WN adding nonstop service to CVG, CLE, DTW, MSP, and ONT out of HOU might happen with CVG, CLE, DTW, MSP, and ONT being five of the top domestic destinations that do not currently have nonstop service out of HOU on WN.

I had previously thought that WN adding HOU-SFO might happen with SFO being one of the top destinations that passengers were connecting to out of HOU on WN, but WN is less likely to add HOU-SFO nonstop service with WN recently increasing HOU-OAK to 3 daily nonstops, with WN dropping nonstop service to SFO out of AUS and DAL, and with WN reducing MKE-SFO seasonal nonstop service to Saturday-only in Summer 2020.

WN adding HOU-LGB nonstop service is also a possibility if WN acquires extra slots at LGB with HOU being one of the top destinations traveled to from LAX on WN that isn't currently served nonstop from LGB.

While it seems that WN pulling out of CRP might happen with CRP having the lowest load factors of any WN station in the U.S. in the January 2019 - September 2019 time period, I think that WN will probably continue to serve CRP nonstop from HOU with WN having served the CRP market for over 40 years. I am unsure why the demand for WN service out of CRP is weak when there is more demand for WN service out of markets that are smaller than population than CRP such as AMA, OGG, LBB, MAF, and ECP than there is out of CRP.

WN might possibly be able to get slightly better load factors out of CRP by adding additional domestic nonstop routes out of HOU such as HOU-CVG/CLE/DTW/MSP/ONT.

Agreed on CVG, MSP, maybe CLE. WN is quite opportunistic. They don't hit a market with one or two flights, they launched CVG with a cascade of flights regionally, with additional seasonal service, and more to come this year. MSP has been steadily growing, and I think they've found success in competing against SCX. CLE for the same reason as CVG. Sure, just like CVG, it's a city that's still in an economic slump, but it's a potential hole in the network that could perform well.

I would find DTW to be unlikely likewise ONT. Maybe SNA? A lot of the WN point-to-point magic has been replaced with a distributed hub-spoke model and the tried and tested thru-flights. Why add HOU-SFO when you can go through DEN or PHX first? :lol:

There's a significant fleet problem to be solved here, too, before they start adding service to so many domestic cities.

HOU-LGB, in my opinion, will likely not happen, LGB is a well-known slot land war in Asia with a rather hostile airport authority/city and acceptable but hardly exciting loadfactors. If they get a couple more, and that's a big if, I would predict PHX first. Make them go to PHX and connect or travel on a thru-flight from HOU.

WN will not leave CRP. There's a guy who would have to die first (according to rumors). Important to look at the market you're serving though, not just the population. WN is still playing to an LCC crowd in many markets despite being the virtually undisputed Silicon Valley shuttle in California and having a lot of high revenue/high loadfactor routes in a lot of markets. For example, OGG is a high-grossing, highly competitive leisure market. ECP gets a lot of military and defense traffic. LBB has Texas Tech... uhhh.... and some good bars? (Only stayed there a handful of times but AMA and MAF have nothing at all.) And CRP has crushing humidity but a really nice beach. Also, according to rumors, a very, very interested shareholder in WN from the early days who lives in Corpus and travels a lot for business. But, those are rumors.
 
jplatts
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:39 pm

bluecrew wrote:
Agreed on CVG, MSP, maybe CLE. WN is quite opportunistic. They don't hit a market with one or two flights, they launched CVG with a cascade of flights regionally, with additional seasonal service, and more to come this year. MSP has been steadily growing, and I think they've found success in competing against SCX. CLE for the same reason as CVG. Sure, just like CVG, it's a city that's still in an economic slump, but it's a potential hole in the network that could perform well.

I would find DTW to be unlikely likewise ONT. Maybe SNA? A lot of the WN point-to-point magic has been replaced with a distributed hub-spoke model and the tried and tested thru-flights. Why add HOU-SFO when you can go through DEN or PHX first? :lol:

There's a significant fleet problem to be solved here, too, before they start adding service to so many domestic cities.


I agree that WN adding HOU-CLE nonstop service is a possibility as WN had previously stated that it was considering adding HOU-CLE nonstop service back in October 2017 (source: https://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2017/10/whats_next_for_cleveland_hopki.html).

WN has had to drop SNA-DAL and SNA-HOU nonstop service due to WN losing slots at SNA.

I mentioned WN adding HOU-DTW nonstop service as a possibility due to (a) more passengers connecting to DTW from HOU on WN than to CVG, CLE, or MSP in Q2 2019 and (b) WN having been serving the DTW market for over 30 years whereas WN has served CVG for 2 1/2 years, CLE for almost 28 years, and MSP for almost 11 years.

I agree that WN adding HOU-SFO nonstop service is unlikely to happen with (a) WN dropping AUS-SFO and DAL-SFO nonstop service, (b) WN reducing MKE-SFO seasonal nonstop service to Saturday-only in Summer 2020, and (c) WN already serving OAK and SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area nonstop from HOU.

Here were the Q2 2019 PDEW's of HOU-CVG/CLE/DTW/MSP on WN:
HOU-DTW on WN - 45
HOU-CLE on WN - 32
HOU-MSP on WN - 32
HOU-CVG on WN - 13

While there were very few passengers connecting to HOU from CVG in Q2 2019, WN might be able to significantly stimulate O&D traffic on the CVG-HOU route if it adds CVG-HOU nonstop service since
(a) F9 was able to fill CVG-IAH nonstop flights back when F9 served IAH nonstop from CVG,
(b) F9 no longer serves IAH nonstop from CVG,
(c) UA has dropped mainline nonstop service to IAH from CVG,
and
(d) WN had also been able to significantly stimulate O&D demand on other routes such as HOU-CLT, HOU-SDF, HOU-MKE, and HOU-OMA when WN added nonstop service to CLT, SDF, MKE, and OMA out of HOU.

WN would also have some connecting traffic to at least AUS, CRP, ELP, HRL, MAF, and SAT in addition to O&D traffic on the HOU-CVG route if WN adds HOU-CVG nonstop service.

A post about WN possibly adding HOU-CVG nonstop service can be found at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411841&p=21749577#p21749577.

I had mentioned WN adding HOU-ONT nonstop service as a possibility with (a) WN having added DAL-ONT and SFO-ONT nonstop service in the last 3 years, (b) WN adding both of these routes with WN losing slots at SNA starting in 2017, (c) WN having already dropped SNA-SFO nonstop service back in November 2018, (d) WN having reduced SNA-DAL from 2 daily nonstops to 1 daily nonstop in January 2017, and (e) WN discontinuing DAL-SNA nonstop service on January 5th.

bluecrew wrote:
HOU-LGB, in my opinion, will likely not happen, LGB is a well-known slot land war in Asia with a rather hostile airport authority/city and acceptable but hardly exciting loadfactors. If they get a couple more, and that's a big if, I would predict PHX first. Make them go to PHX and connect or travel on a thru-flight from HOU.


While I agree that WN adding LGB-PHX nonstop service would probably happen before LGB-HOU, I mentioned WN adding LGB-HOU as a possibility if extra slots at LGB become available as there have been some individuals who recently mentioned in the Airliners.net forums that WN might pick up enough additional slots at LGB.
 
GreenCountry
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:09 pm

drerx7 wrote:
Yes, more or less. The old C North Concourse will be incorporated into the remodel/rebuild/expansion of the existing Terminal D.


Not exactly. The old C North Concourse will be demolished and a new D concourse built in that location.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:41 pm

slickvik wrote:
jplatts wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
Predictions for 2020:
    Southwest adds new destinations out of HOU, hopefully to PTY


WN adding nonstop service to CVG, CLE, DTW, MSP, and ONT out of HOU might happen with CVG, CLE, DTW, MSP, and ONT being five of the top domestic destinations that do not currently have nonstop service out of HOU on WN.

I had previously thought that WN adding HOU-SFO might happen with SFO being one of the top destinations that passengers were connecting to out of HOU on WN, but WN is less likely to add HOU-SFO nonstop service with WN recently increasing HOU-OAK to 3 daily nonstops, with WN dropping nonstop service to SFO out of AUS and DAL, and with WN reducing MKE-SFO seasonal nonstop service to Saturday-only in Summer 2020.

WN adding HOU-LGB nonstop service is also a possibility if WN acquires extra slots at LGB with HOU being one of the top destinations traveled to from LAX on WN that isn't currently served nonstop from LGB.

While it seems that WN pulling out of CRP might happen with CRP having the lowest load factors of any WN station in the U.S. in the January 2019 - September 2019 time period, I think that WN will probably continue to serve CRP nonstop from HOU with WN having served the CRP market for over 40 years. I am unsure why the demand for WN service out of CRP is weak when there is more demand for WN service out of markets that are smaller than population than CRP such as AMA, OGG, LBB, MAF, and ECP than there is out of CRP.

WN might possibly be able to get slightly better load factors out of CRP by adding additional domestic nonstop routes out of HOU such as HOU-CVG/CLE/DTW/MSP/ONT.


I doubt CRP will ever be pulled. Seems like an issue of state pride more than anything to keep it running.


CRP suffers from being close to SAT, AUS, HOU, and IAH. The only WN destination from CRP is HOU. In many cases it is faster to drive from Corpus Christi directly to any of the previously mentioned airports and fly non-stop to a destination than to fly to Houston or Dallas and wait on a connection there. A smaller more efficient jet would make it possible to fly more frequent flights between CRP and HOU giving better connection opportunities. Currently WN has fairly decent connections to LGA but the return trip from LGA is only possible in the morning till maybe 1 pm. There are no late afternoon returns possible.
 
jplatts
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:08 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
CRP suffers from being close to SAT, AUS, HOU, and IAH. The only WN destination from CRP is HOU. In many cases it is faster to drive from Corpus Christi directly to any of the previously mentioned airports and fly non-stop to a destination than to fly to Houston or Dallas and wait on a connection there. A smaller more efficient jet would make it possible to fly more frequent flights between CRP and HOU giving better connection opportunities. Currently WN has fairly decent connections to LGA but the return trip from LGA is only possible in the morning till maybe 1 pm. There are no late afternoon returns possible.


While it might make sense to drive to SAT and fly out of SAT if you can get to your destination nonstop from SAT, there are many domestic destinations not served nonstop out of SAT on any airline that have nonstop service out of HOU on WN such as BHM, BOS, BUR, CHS, CMH, IND, JAX, LIT, SDF, MEM, MAF, MKE, LGA, OKC, OMA, ECP, PNS, PIT, RDU, SJC, TUL, and DCA.

If you are needing to get from the Corpus Christi area to a destination that isn't not served nonstop out of AUS or SAT, you might be better off flying out of CRP and connecting through HOU, IAH, or DFW.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:42 am

jplatts wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
CRP suffers from being close to SAT, AUS, HOU, and IAH. The only WN destination from CRP is HOU. In many cases it is faster to drive from Corpus Christi directly to any of the previously mentioned airports and fly non-stop to a destination than to fly to Houston or Dallas and wait on a connection there. A smaller more efficient jet would make it possible to fly more frequent flights between CRP and HOU giving better connection opportunities. Currently WN has fairly decent connections to LGA but the return trip from LGA is only possible in the morning till maybe 1 pm. There are no late afternoon returns possible.


While it might make sense to drive to SAT and fly out of SAT if you can get to your destination nonstop from SAT, there are many domestic destinations not served nonstop out of SAT on any airline that have nonstop service out of HOU on WN such as BHM, BOS, BUR, CHS, CMH, IND, JAX, LIT, SDF, MEM, MAF, MKE, LGA, OKC, OMA, ECP, PNS, PIT, RDU, SJC, TUL, and DCA.

If you are needing to get from the Corpus Christi area to a destination that isn't not served nonstop out of AUS or SAT, you might be better off flying out of CRP and connecting through HOU, IAH, or DFW.


Some of it has to do with the rules the booking software WN uses have. I wish that most flights available originating from HOU were available from CRP. Unfortunately I die to the number of connections required, many are it allowed.

The problem with flying to DFW or IAH is the cost of flying on the regional jets AA and UA fly on those routes. About a year ago I booked a flight for my Mom with 3 travel days but on a round trip overall. First she flew CRP-DFW and was picked up by her sister who lives in Granbury. Then a few days later they flew from DWF to SAF to stay with their brother for a few day in Santa Fe. Then they both flew back to DFW where my Mom then caught a plane back to CRP. The whole trip was over $600. They probably could have flown cheaper on WN via Dallas, but that would have not been comfortable for my aunt who has very serious back trouble and had 3 vertebra fused about 35 years ago.

For comparison the cost to fly SAT or AUS to the east or west coasts round trip is in the $300 to $400 range. Just searching various days of the week to several Los Angeles area airports from AUS or SAT, I have found some fares as low as $100 one way and sometimes less on WN. Considering my brother has a condo in Austin that is just 15 minutes from AUS, I can stay overnight there and easily get to an early morning flight that is either non-stop or much cheaper than any I can get from CRP.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6121
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:16 am

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Another year passes by as 2019 draws to a close and 2020 is on the approach. 2019 has been a pretty successful year for both IAH and HOU as both have had growth and had new destinations added.

Highlights from 2019:
    Ethiopian Airlines launches IAH
    The Terminal D Renovation/Rebuild finally breaks ground
    IAH celebrated its 50th Birthday
    United announces IAH-GEG
    Southwest announces Cozumel and Nassau both launching in 2020!

Predictions for 2020:
    UA at IAH goes from 600-700 departures daily
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/unit ... notes.html
    TAP, Air India, or another new carrier launches IAH
    UA adds another new international destination out of IAH, most likely to Latin America
    Southwest adds new destinations out of HOU, hopefully to PTY


Your predictions sound more like a wishlist as opposed to realistic predictions. Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see them all but the only one that’s semi realistic is a new international carrier.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
YoungDon
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:43 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
MAH4546 wrote:
COflyerBOS wrote:
AV to BOG would open up connections to cities like Armenia, Asunción, Barranquilla, Cali, Cartagena, Cusco, Guayaquil, La Paz, Medellin, Montevideo, and San Andres among others. Have no idea if there’s much demand but SAL offers very little to South America.


UA flies IAHBOG and allows those connections, which are largely minuscule local markets regardless.


IAH-CLO isn’t small. I don’t think it’ll get it’s own flight, but I wouldn’t call it small.


It's surprising to me that IAH-CLO would be bigger than IAH-MDE or even IAH-CTG... what's driving that traffic to Cali?
 
Airlines0613
Posts: 172
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:28 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
Another year passes by as 2019 draws to a close and 2020 is on the approach. 2019 has been a pretty successful year for both IAH and HOU as both have had growth and had new destinations added.

Highlights from 2019:
    Ethiopian Airlines launches IAH
    The Terminal D Renovation/Rebuild finally breaks ground
    IAH celebrated its 50th Birthday
    United announces IAH-GEG
    Southwest announces Cozumel and Nassau both launching in 2020!

Predictions for 2020:
    UA at IAH goes from 600-700 departures daily
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/unit ... notes.html
    TAP, Air India, or another new carrier launches IAH
    UA adds another new international destination out of IAH, most likely to Latin America
    Southwest adds new destinations out of HOU, hopefully to PTY


Your predictions sound more like a wishlist as opposed to realistic predictions. Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see them all but the only one that’s semi realistic is a new international carrier.

Scott Kirby did announce that UA plans to have 700+ daily flights at IAH in the next year or two. This would make IAH the largest hub for UA in terms of daily flights. If I’m correct, we are already at 600.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6121
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:58 pm

Airlines0613 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
Another year passes by as 2019 draws to a close and 2020 is on the approach. 2019 has been a pretty successful year for both IAH and HOU as both have had growth and had new destinations added.

Highlights from 2019:
    Ethiopian Airlines launches IAH
    The Terminal D Renovation/Rebuild finally breaks ground
    IAH celebrated its 50th Birthday
    United announces IAH-GEG
    Southwest announces Cozumel and Nassau both launching in 2020!

Predictions for 2020:
    UA at IAH goes from 600-700 departures daily
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/unit ... notes.html
    TAP, Air India, or another new carrier launches IAH
    UA adds another new international destination out of IAH, most likely to Latin America
    Southwest adds new destinations out of HOU, hopefully to PTY


Your predictions sound more like a wishlist as opposed to realistic predictions. Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see them all but the only one that’s semi realistic is a new international carrier.

Scott Kirby did announce that UA plans to have 700+ daily flights at IAH in the next year or two. This would make IAH the largest hub for UA in terms of daily flights. If I’m correct, we are already at 600.


Talk is cheap. Traffic is going up because theyre replacing ERJs with 170/175 but number of departures isn’t. We’re currently in the mid-upper 500s. But the place where departures are growing is DEN.

Our passenger numbers will go up but number of flight is stagnating and number of destinations is down slightly.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6121
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:59 pm

YoungDon wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
MAH4546 wrote:

UA flies IAHBOG and allows those connections, which are largely minuscule local markets regardless.


IAH-CLO isn’t small. I don’t think it’ll get it’s own flight, but I wouldn’t call it small.


It's surprising to me that IAH-CLO would be bigger than IAH-MDE or even IAH-CTG... what's driving that traffic to Cali?


CLO is home to 30% of Colombia’s oil and gas trade. Over 50% is in Bogota.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6121
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:14 pm

On a positive note Houston passed the 10 million mark for international passengers. This puts IAH just behind JFK, LAX, MIA, SFO, ORD, EWR and ATL. There is a 2 million gap between it and the next in line which is DFW. However it is only behind ATL 700k.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Okcflyer
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 11:10 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:42 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
On a positive note Houston passed the 10 million mark for international passengers. This puts IAH just behind JFK, LAX, MIA, SFO, ORD, EWR and ATL. There is a 2 million gap between it and the next in line which is DFW. However it is only behind ATL 700k.


Any idea of the percentage UA carried vs the foreign flags?
 
Airlines0613
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:06 am

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:52 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
On a positive note Houston passed the 10 million mark for international passengers. This puts IAH just behind JFK, LAX, MIA, SFO, ORD, EWR and ATL. There is a 2 million gap between it and the next in line which is DFW. However it is only behind ATL 700k.

IAH passed the 10 million international passengers mark a couple of years ago. ATL, on the other hand, carried 12+ million last year.

Houston as a whole passed the 11 million mark last year. Hopefully we pass 12.
Last edited by Airlines0613 on Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6121
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:09 pm

Airlines0613 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
On a positive note Houston passed the 10 million mark for international passengers. This puts IAH just behind JFK, LAX, MIA, SFO, ORD, EWR and ATL. There is a 2 million gap between it and the next in line which is DFW. However it is only behind ATL 700k.

Houston passed the 10 million international passengers mark a couple of years ago.


You’re right. I was looking through October.

I guess that’s still good news it got over 10 million by the 11th month.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
IAHWorldflyer
Posts: 853
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:53 pm

With strong international traffic at IAH, what comes next? A new destination in Europe, or a new destination in East Asia?
Currently in Europe, there is service to LHR, MAN, AMS, CDG, FRA, and MUC.
East Asia has service to NRT (soon also HND), PEK, and TPE.
Whatever the next city is, I doubt it will be with UA. UA has shown they want to build up SFO, and secondarily EWR. My guess would be a foreign-flagged carrier.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6121
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:59 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
With strong international traffic at IAH, what comes next? A new destination in Europe, or a new destination in East Asia?
Currently in Europe, there is service to LHR, MAN, AMS, CDG, FRA, and MUC.
East Asia has service to NRT (soon also HND), PEK, and TPE.
Whatever the next city is, I doubt it will be with UA. UA has shown they want to build up SFO, and secondarily EWR. My guess would be a foreign-flagged carrier.


I agree. UA will not build IAH internationally unless it’s Latin America.

In terms of what most realistic, I’m honestly unsure.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
jplatts
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:30 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
I agree. UA will not build IAH internationally unless it’s Latin America.


UA already serves SYD nonstop from IAH and UA's codeshare partner NZ already serves AKL nonstop from IAH, but IAH is in a good geographical location for connections to Australia and New Zealand from the South, the Midwest, and the East Coast.

There are also some other international destinations served nonstop out of IAH by UA codeshare partners such as IAH-YYC/YUL/YYZ by AC, IAH-PEK by CA, IAH-TYO by NH (moving over to HND from NRT starting on March 29th), IAH-SAL by TA, IAH-ADD/LFW by ET, IAH-TPE by BR, IAH-FRA by LH, and IAH-IST by TK.

Connecting through IAH onto flights to East Asia on UA/NH/CA/BR does make sense from the Gulf Coast, Florida, Latin America, and the Caribbean.

While it probably doesn't make sense to connect onto transatlantic flights out of IAH from places outside of the Southwestern U.S. or Mexico, it might make sense to connect onto transatlantic flights out of IAH from places such as PHX, TUS, HOB, ELP, AUS, SAT, GRK, LRD, CRP, MFE, HRL, and BRO.
 
COflyerBOS
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:04 am

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:37 pm

Whatever happened to MU to PVG that was rumored? TP to LIS seems to be the newest hot rumor.

As for UA, I’d like to see GYE and CLO back. CDG seems like a glaring hole. Yeah, I know the history there but ceding Paris to AF and a rival alliance just seems strange when SFO is getting Dublin seasonally. It’s hard to think a summer seasonal couldn’t work.
 
EADSYABSOB73857
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:57 pm

COflyerBOS wrote:
Whatever happened to MU to PVG that was rumored? TP to LIS seems to be the newest hot rumor.

As for UA, I’d like to see GYE and CLO back. CDG seems like a glaring hole. Yeah, I know the history there but ceding Paris to AF and a rival alliance just seems strange when SFO is getting Dublin seasonally. It’s hard to think a summer seasonal couldn’t work.


What’s the PDEW IAH-CDG?

Not sure TAP can sustain a flight there- TAP is focusing on East Coast/high demand markets.. what’s the demand IAH-LIS? Given UA connects so many flights, not so sure there’s a need for TAP connections, but perhaps I’m wrong.
 
aznmadsci
Posts: 1646
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:02 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:39 am

Has CA ended IAH-PTY for S20?
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
 
COflyerBOS
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:04 am

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:13 am

TP wouldn’t be for IAH-LIS but for connecting traffic at two star alliance hubs. TP would offer up 32 African/Iberian peninsula cities.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6121
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:53 am

EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:
COflyerBOS wrote:
Whatever happened to MU to PVG that was rumored? TP to LIS seems to be the newest hot rumor.

As for UA, I’d like to see GYE and CLO back. CDG seems like a glaring hole. Yeah, I know the history there but ceding Paris to AF and a rival alliance just seems strange when SFO is getting Dublin seasonally. It’s hard to think a summer seasonal couldn’t work.


What’s the PDEW IAH-CDG?

Not sure TAP can sustain a flight there- TAP is focusing on East Coast/high demand markets.. what’s the demand IAH-LIS? Given UA connects so many flights, not so sure there’s a need for TAP connections, but perhaps I’m wrong.


PDEW from IAH-CDG is around 115-130. Depends on season.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
IAHWorldflyer
Posts: 853
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:26 pm

I agree that the lack of a June-August seasonal flight to CDG on UA is a hole in their network. But as many niche market seasonal add's as UA has done from EWR/IAD/ORD, there's been nothing added out of IAH. I think that speaks volumes as to how they feel about using a widebody aircraft on the Houston market. I just don't see them adding anything international over the next 12 months, unless, like LAXdude says, it is Latin America.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6121
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:24 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
I agree that the lack of a June-August seasonal flight to CDG on UA is a hole in their network. But as many niche market seasonal add's as UA has done from EWR/IAD/ORD, there's been nothing added out of IAH. I think that speaks volumes as to how they feel about using a widebody aircraft on the Houston market. I just don't see them adding anything international over the next 12 months, unless, like LAXdude says, it is Latin America.


It’s just something we have to get used to. We’re the Latin America hub. That’s our function. They won’t add anything else internationally unless it’s simply that big a local market. CDG would be nice to have back, but it’s obvious they aren’t interested. If they won’t serve IAH-CDG, getting even smaller markets are out of the question.

UA has publicly stated that no more routes from IAH-Asia at a townhall. They haven’t said that about Europe but I doubt they’re interested.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
braniff2hav
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:20 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:58 pm

Air India is near broke ... I doubt the Houston skies will see any Air India jets anytime in the near future.

I do find it most curious UA cannot make money on a route IAH CDG when I presume CO did for years.
 
x1234
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:17 pm

There are non-stops from CDG to literally every major city in Latin America already (especially from MAD).
 
zm093
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:20 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:15 pm

braniff2hav wrote:
Air India is near broke ... I doubt the Houston skies will see any Air India jets anytime in the near future.

I do find it most curious UA cannot make money on a route IAH CDG when I presume CO did for years.


Would a UA 789 to DEL work from IAH if AI were to not launch?

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