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ScottB
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:20 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Now, one could look and say that Houston has the largest percentage of jobs in danger (of that group) and that is technically correct. It, however, needs a lot of context to really process it. Its not like the current crisis is somehow going to drop a bomb on Houston and other metro areas arent going to be just as damaged isnt accurate. You do have some metro areas that look to be less at risk than these (San Jose has only 12.4% and Detroit has 14.7%) and you have some that are a lot worse (Las Vegas at 33.8% and Orlando at 27.3%), but most of the major metro areas are in a cluster between 15-20% jobs at risk meaning that most metro areas are going to get hit with similar levels of severity.


My point is not that Houston will be disproportionately hit by the CoViD-19-related economic catastrophe. Rather, the petroleum industry is a key driver of long-haul travel from Houston in the front cabin, and that industry probably won't be paying to fly its employees in business class for a while -- especially in light of WTI for May delivery going negative today. That will impact long-haul service from Houston harder than Houston's peers.
 
bravotango75
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:59 pm

Watch the U-Haul movers and rentals around Houston and how much business will increase. Some have noted that it is a good indicator of a local economy on the volume of business that a U-Haul dealership does during Booms and Busts. Houston had it's 15 minutes, despite all the warnings and predictions they chose not diversify and hedged their bets on volatile commodity, they lost. In a strange way, I was kinda hoping that Houston would succeed.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6121
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:07 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
Watch the U-Haul movers and rentals around Houston and how much business will increase. Some have noted that it is a good indicator of a local economy on the volume of business that a U-Haul dealership does during Booms and Busts. Houston had it's 15 minutes, despite all the warnings and predictions they chose not diversify and hedged their bets on volatile commodity, they lost. In a strange way, I was kinda hoping that Houston would succeed.


No you weren’t. You’re trolling us. You’re coming on here to get an emotional reaction and you type your words with obvious glee.

You also don’t know a thing about Houston’s economy and that obviously by your remark about Houston not diversifying. The economy is far more diverse than it was 15 years ago. Even during downturns in 2015, Houston received more international immigrant and less domestic migration bleed than you beloved Boston. That wouldn’t be the case if Houston was completely defined by one industry. Houston has received more international immigrants since 2010 than any other metro area in the US except Miami, NYC, and LA. Bear in mind 4 years of that was an oil bust.

Save your fake pity and learn some facts before coming on here.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
theasianguy
Posts: 169
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:32 am

For long haul international, here's a very premature speculation of what will stay and go.

I don't think UA will cut any South American cities since most cities are only served through IAH in the network. We will probably lose MUC as Star traffic consolidates to FRA, and AMS will get downgauged due to reduced O&G premium demand. I see SYD getting cut and connections funneled through SFO/LAX.

BA - mostly safe
AF - this has been one of AF's weakest routes. If any Euro carrier leaves Houston, my bet is on AF.
KL - safe since Shell is huge in Houston, and this has long been one of their most profitable routes
LH - nothing will change. IAH-FRA is a Star trunk route for Houston-Europe or Germany-Latin America connections.
EK/QR - will not get cut because ethnic traffic to South Asia remains strong. EK will likely stay 777 year round.
ET - this is a young route with poor aircraft utilization, so it's probably a goner.

NH - ANA has not cut a single international destination since expansion, and this one's staying to give passengers a choice between HND or NRT.
BR - This route has been hugely successful with the Vietnamese diaspora who will continue to travel after the pandemic
CA - This is another route driven by ethnic traffic. Don't see this one being dropped unless US-China relations go from bad to worse
SQ - IAH-MAN traffic will suffer if oil stays low. There are too many IAH-SIN one-stops, so I don't see this one staying.
NZ - If it stays, it will be at a reduced frequency
 
YoungDon
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 9:33 am

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:20 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
What gets me is that people from outside this city are under the false impression that this city solely depends on energy (Houston is not the oil capital of the world, it is the ENERGY capital of the world). This isn’t 1986. Yes, there are routes flown from Houston that will be vulnerable in this environment (IAH-YEG/POS/YYC/TAM/VER on UA and SQ, ET, EK, and QR) but the rest are going to be fine including UAs network. That doesn’t mean we won’t lose a few long haul flights, but that will be true everywhere.


I have close connections to Houston and I was there for the carnage of the mid-1980s. While referring to Houston as the world's energy capital is a nice spin and not inaccurate, the fact remains that petroleum exploration and production is still the key driver of premium international long-haul traffic to & from Houston. IMO EK and QR might be somewhat less vulnerable than the others you list since they can serve the VFR traffic for the large South Asian diaspora population in Houston -- assuming countries like India reopen their borders.


I think we should bring some data into this.

The study below was done by Brookings. They identified the number of jobs in each metro that are vulnerable of being lost by the current instability. Here is what they came up with. Ill use other metros to compare:

Houston: 19.4%
Atlanta: 18.8%
Miami: 18.7%
Charlotte: 18.3%
Dallas: 18.2%
Chicago: 18.2%
Los Angeles: 18.2%
Phoenix: 18.0%

Now, one could look and say that Houston has the largest percentage of jobs in danger (of that group) and that is technically correct. It, however, needs a lot of context to really process it. Its not like the current crisis is somehow going to drop a bomb on Houston and other metro areas arent going to be just as damaged isnt accurate. You do have some metro areas that look to be less at risk than these (San Jose has only 12.4% and Detroit has 14.7%) and you have some that are a lot worse (Las Vegas at 33.8% and Orlando at 27.3%), but most of the major metro areas are in a cluster between 15-20% jobs at risk meaning that most metro areas are going to get hit with similar levels of severity.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-aven ... t-hardest/


Great find. People act like this oil crash isn't in the context of the complete economic crash we're seeing. This isn't going to hit Houston as hard as some of the tourist heavy cities because, as you said, Houston is more diverse than generally given credit for. It's going to be bad, but that will be true everywhere. The boat has sunk all over the world.

But I get it, because some people really just root for Houston (and often Texas in general) to fail. It is what it is.

bravotango75 wrote:
Watch the U-Haul movers and rentals around Houston and how much business will increase. Some have noted that it is a good indicator of a local economy on the volume of business that a U-Haul dealership does during Booms and Busts. Houston had it's 15 minutes, despite all the warnings and predictions they chose not diversify and hedged their bets on volatile commodity, they lost. In a strange way, I was kinda hoping that Houston would succeed.


...and speaking of the devil. Like roaches to light, it never takes the trolls long to show up. And nothing ever gets done about the trolling. It's unfortunate.
 
LH658
Posts: 1111
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:50 am

theasianguy wrote:
For long haul international, here's a very premature speculation of what will stay and go.

I don't think UA will cut any South American cities since most cities are only served through IAH in the network. We will probably lose MUC as Star traffic consolidates to FRA, and AMS will get downgauged due to reduced O&G premium demand. I see SYD getting cut and connections funneled through SFO/LAX.

BA - mostly safe
AF - this has been one of AF's weakest routes. If any Euro carrier leaves Houston, my bet is on AF.
KL - safe since Shell is huge in Houston, and this has long been one of their most profitable routes
LH - nothing will change. IAH-FRA is a Star trunk route for Houston-Europe or Germany-Latin America connections.
EK/QR - will not get cut because ethnic traffic to South Asia remains strong. EK will likely stay 777 year round.
ET - this is a young route with poor aircraft utilization, so it's probably a goner.

NH - ANA has not cut a single international destination since expansion, and this one's staying to give passengers a choice between HND or NRT.
BR - This route has been hugely successful with the Vietnamese diaspora who will continue to travel after the pandemic
CA - This is another route driven by ethnic traffic. Don't see this one being dropped unless US-China relations go from bad to worse
SQ - IAH-MAN traffic will suffer if oil stays low. There are too many IAH-SIN one-stops, so I don't see this one staying.
NZ - If it stays, it will be at a reduced frequency


I doubt SQ will pull out of IAH, SQ was been benefiting with the new MAN stop over plus the A350, also the flight is 5th freedom. Whenever SQ operated via DME to IAH, SQ weakest load factor to North America was IAH. Though since front cabin, and cargo kept the flight alive though with such low load factors. Almost every carrier they came to IAH has always mentioned about how fast they can get you to SIN, airlines like KE, NH, CA, and BR all boasted about how fast they can get you to Southeast Asia. Though SQ is still in the game despite all those carriers targeting that region of the World. When the Covid panic started, SQ were decreasing flights to LHR, LAX, SFO, JFK, and other stations that properly generated more revenue, and higher load factors then IAH. Though IAH never got axed until the end.

AMS i doubt will be decreased from SQ or UA, due to also cargo demand on this route. CDG i can see being decreased by frequency, IAH is important to AF. EK and QR will remain daily flight, EK will probably go to 777 though who knows. I can see TK going down to 4 to 5 weekly, as they normal do during the low season. LH i can see sending the 748. MUC was already seasonal, and I can see it remaining like that. UA to SYD depends on the competition with AA/QF at DFW, as we see UA/NZ and AA/QF battling on routes to the Oceania. I can see SYD going seasonal.

Though we are probably gunna cuts in spending from Airlines offering amenities from on board, to the lounges.
 
caribbeanSwag
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:16 am

LH658 wrote:
theasianguy wrote:
For long haul international, here's a very premature speculation of what will stay and go.

I don't think UA will cut any South American cities since most cities are only served through IAH in the network. We will probably lose MUC as Star traffic consolidates to FRA, and AMS will get downgauged due to reduced O&G premium demand. I see SYD getting cut and connections funneled through SFO/LAX.

BA - mostly safe
AF - this has been one of AF's weakest routes. If any Euro carrier leaves Houston, my bet is on AF.
KL - safe since Shell is huge in Houston, and this has long been one of their most profitable routes
LH - nothing will change. IAH-FRA is a Star trunk route for Houston-Europe or Germany-Latin America connections.
EK/QR - will not get cut because ethnic traffic to South Asia remains strong. EK will likely stay 777 year round.
ET - this is a young route with poor aircraft utilization, so it's probably a goner.

NH - ANA has not cut a single international destination since expansion, and this one's staying to give passengers a choice between HND or NRT.
BR - This route has been hugely successful with the Vietnamese diaspora who will continue to travel after the pandemic
CA - This is another route driven by ethnic traffic. Don't see this one being dropped unless US-China relations go from bad to worse
SQ - IAH-MAN traffic will suffer if oil stays low. There are too many IAH-SIN one-stops, so I don't see this one staying.
NZ - If it stays, it will be at a reduced frequency


I doubt SQ will pull out of IAH, SQ was been benefiting with the new MAN stop over plus the A350, also the flight is 5th freedom. Whenever SQ operated via DME to IAH, SQ weakest load factor to North America was IAH. Though since front cabin, and cargo kept the flight alive though with such low load factors. Almost every carrier they came to IAH has always mentioned about how fast they can get you to SIN, airlines like KE, NH, CA, and BR all boasted about how fast they can get you to Southeast Asia. Though SQ is still in the game despite all those carriers targeting that region of the World. When the Covid panic started, SQ were decreasing flights to LHR, LAX, SFO, JFK, and other stations that properly generated more revenue, and higher load factors then IAH. Though IAH never got axed until the end.

AMS i doubt will be decreased from SQ or UA, due to also cargo demand on this route. CDG i can see being decreased by frequency, IAH is important to AF. EK and QR will remain daily flight, EK will probably go to 777 though who knows. I can see TK going down to 4 to 5 weekly, as they normal do during the low season. LH i can see sending the 748. MUC was already seasonal, and I can see it remaining like that. UA to SYD depends on the competition with AA/QF at DFW, as we see UA/NZ and AA/QF battling on routes to the Oceania. I can see SYD going seasonal.

Though we are probably gunna cuts in spending from Airlines offering amenities from on board, to the lounges.


I honestly doubt we lose ET. At least not immediately. It's too early to tell for this route since its so new, we have a lot to learn about the route. Houston's African community is huge, and this route is convenient for them. Is it enough to sustain just with this with low oil prices as other airlines do? Too early to tell, the airline will likely resume flights and if it doesn't sustain, it will decide from there.
 
hohd
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:28 pm

AF- No competition on this route, so doubt if AF will reduce or leave.

ET- Agree this route may be gone
SQ- Could be in trouble, as they are now relying on MAN traffic
AMS via United - Could be in trouble, while KLM remains as is
TK - Could go down to 4 times a week
 
tkoenig95
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:43 pm

theasianguy wrote:
For long haul international, here's a very premature speculation of what will stay and go.

I don't think UA will cut any South American cities since most cities are only served through IAH in the network. We will probably lose MUC as Star traffic consolidates to FRA, and AMS will get downgauged due to reduced O&G premium demand. I see SYD getting cut and connections funneled through SFO/LAX.

BA - mostly safe
AF - this has been one of AF's weakest routes. If any Euro carrier leaves Houston, my bet is on AF.
KL - safe since Shell is huge in Houston, and this has long been one of their most profitable routes
LH - nothing will change. IAH-FRA is a Star trunk route for Houston-Europe or Germany-Latin America connections.
EK/QR - will not get cut because ethnic traffic to South Asia remains strong. EK will likely stay 777 year round.
ET - this is a young route with poor aircraft utilization, so it's probably a goner.

NH - ANA has not cut a single international destination since expansion, and this one's staying to give passengers a choice between HND or NRT.
BR - This route has been hugely successful with the Vietnamese diaspora who will continue to travel after the pandemic
CA - This is another route driven by ethnic traffic. Don't see this one being dropped unless US-China relations go from bad to worse
SQ - IAH-MAN traffic will suffer if oil stays low. There are too many IAH-SIN one-stops, so I don't see this one staying.
NZ - If it stays, it will be at a reduced frequency


Keep in mind that AMS us huge for United Cargo which is very evident right now. Albeit their cargo-only flights don't include IAH in the mix to AMS (as of right now), one of the biggest reasons the 777 is placed on this route is because of the cargo connections. With Kirby saying the 767 is in limbo for the future a downgauge possibility could be a member of the 787 family, possibly the -9 as KLM has on the IAH route.

Just food for thought.
 
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AVENSAB727
Topic Author
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:06 pm

tkoenig95 wrote:
theasianguy wrote:
For long haul international, here's a very premature speculation of what will stay and go.

I don't think UA will cut any South American cities since most cities are only served through IAH in the network. We will probably lose MUC as Star traffic consolidates to FRA, and AMS will get downgauged due to reduced O&G premium demand. I see SYD getting cut and connections funneled through SFO/LAX.

BA - mostly safe
AF - this has been one of AF's weakest routes. If any Euro carrier leaves Houston, my bet is on AF.
KL - safe since Shell is huge in Houston, and this has long been one of their most profitable routes
LH - nothing will change. IAH-FRA is a Star trunk route for Houston-Europe or Germany-Latin America connections.
EK/QR - will not get cut because ethnic traffic to South Asia remains strong. EK will likely stay 777 year round.
ET - this is a young route with poor aircraft utilization, so it's probably a goner.

NH - ANA has not cut a single international destination since expansion, and this one's staying to give passengers a choice between HND or NRT.
BR - This route has been hugely successful with the Vietnamese diaspora who will continue to travel after the pandemic
CA - This is another route driven by ethnic traffic. Don't see this one being dropped unless US-China relations go from bad to worse
SQ - IAH-MAN traffic will suffer if oil stays low. There are too many IAH-SIN one-stops, so I don't see this one staying.
NZ - If it stays, it will be at a reduced frequency


Keep in mind that AMS us huge for United Cargo which is very evident right now. Albeit their cargo-only flights don't include IAH in the mix to AMS (as of right now), one of the biggest reasons the 777 is placed on this route is because of the cargo connections. With Kirby saying the 767 is in limbo for the future a downgauge possibility could be a member of the 787 family, possibly the -9 as KLM has on the IAH route.

Just food for thought.

Is it possible that a 78X could be placed on the AMS flight? KLM does occasionally fly one here.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
NW
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:37 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:03 pm

theasianguy wrote:
For long haul international, here's a very premature speculation of what will stay and go.

I don't think UA will cut any South American cities since most cities are only served through IAH in the network. We will probably lose MUC as Star traffic consolidates to FRA, and AMS will get downgauged due to reduced O&G premium demand. I see SYD getting cut and connections funneled through SFO/LAX.

BA - mostly safe
AF - this has been one of AF's weakest routes. If any Euro carrier leaves Houston, my bet is on AF.
KL - safe since Shell is huge in Houston, and this has long been one of their most profitable routes
LH - nothing will change. IAH-FRA is a Star trunk route for Houston-Europe or Germany-Latin America connections.
EK/QR - will not get cut because ethnic traffic to South Asia remains strong. EK will likely stay 777 year round.
ET - this is a young route with poor aircraft utilization, so it's probably a goner.

NH - ANA has not cut a single international destination since expansion, and this one's staying to give passengers a choice between HND or NRT.
BR - This route has been hugely successful with the Vietnamese diaspora who will continue to travel after the pandemic
CA - This is another route driven by ethnic traffic. Don't see this one being dropped unless US-China relations go from bad to worse
SQ - IAH-MAN traffic will suffer if oil stays low. There are too many IAH-SIN one-stops, so I don't see this one staying.
NZ - If it stays, it will be at a reduced frequency


Curious where you get that one of AFs weakest routes is CDG/IAH?
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:22 pm

strfyr51 wrote:

While it seems that WN pulling out of CRP might happen with CRP having the lowest load factors of any WN station in the U.S. in the January 2019 - September 2019 time period, I think that WN will probably continue to serve CRP nonstop from HOU with WN having served the CRP market for over 40 years. I am unsure why the demand for WN service out of CRP is weak when there is more demand for WN service out of markets that are smaller than population than CRP such as AMA, OGG, LBB, MAF, and ECP than there is out of CRP.

WN might possibly be able to get slightly better load factors out of CRP by adding additional domestic nonstop routes out of HOU such as HOU-CVG/CLE/DTW/MSP/ONT.

Frankly? WN in SFO seems redundant with their Hub in OAK. Their Buildup at DEN Might be precluding a lot of other routes as if they need to go to SFO? they can get there from DEN. and not only that? But fan the west Coast out of DEN as well. The DEN Hub is their Master Stroke as it can be a funneling Hub to strike the west Coast at any location and Feed DEN to the East![/quote]

The problem with flying out of CRP is that SAT, AUS, and HOU are near enough to drive to and have lots more options even on WN. Till WN has a plane that can replace the function and capacity of the 737-200, they will continue to leak passengers to other somewhat nearby cities.
 
factsonly
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:19 pm

KLM has re-started AMS-IAH-AMS on April 29, 2020 as a 2x weekly CARGO ONLY service operated with B789.
The aircraft overnights with crew at IAH.

- 29 Apr 2020 AMS - IAH B789 PH-BHM Landed 18:27
- 30 Apr 2020 IAH - AMS B789 PH-BHM Departed

- 1 May 2020 AMS - IAH B789 scheduled
- 6 May 2020 AMS - IAH 789 Scheduled
- 8 May 2020 AMS - IAH 789 Scheduled

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/kl662
 
caribbeanSwag
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:30 pm

Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:59 am

Updates have came in from Andrew Levy's planned airline.

First, the airline has commenced charter air service, which they claimed they'd start over the summer and apparently went through with.

Second, they've moved in to their larger corporate offices in Uptown on San Felipe.

All information seen from their current fleet is that they've leased from GECAS, but isn't currently released. Just that it's entirely 737-800 based.

Final name still isn't determined, but the business entity is named as "Houston Air Holdings" while the current airline is continuing the "Xtra Airways" moniker.
 
jplatts
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:49 pm

While HOU is closer to Downtown Houston, Uptown Houston, the Texas Medical Center, the Kemah Boardwalk, NASA, and Galveston than IAH is, WN re-entering IAH might be a possibility with
(a) IAH and HOU being located approximately 29 miles from each other on opposite sides of the city of Houston,
(b) some of the northern Houston suburbs being located 30 to 55 miles north of HOU,
(c) WN ceding some passengers traveling to or from Greater Houston to other airlines that serve IAH (even in WN strongholds that have daily nonstop service to HOU on WN), whereas WN is capturing some traffic traveling to Greater Houston from other U.S. cities that other airlines aren't due to HOU being closer to many major business and tourist destinations in Greater Houston,
(d) demand for WN service out of Houston being greater than was the case at the time of WN's pullout of IAH in April 2005,
(e) WN stating that it had plans to further expand in the Houston market back on a earnings call in October 2019, and
(f) WN serving more than one airport in some other markets such as BWI/DCA/IAD in the Baltimore/DC market, SFO/OAK/SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area, LAX/BUR/LGB/SNA/ONT in Greater Los Angeles, LGA/ISP in the NYC metro area, BOS/PVD/MHT in Greater Boston, and FLL/PBI in South Florida.

If WN does re-enter IAH, I would certainly expect WN to add nonstop service to IAH from some destinations outside of Texas such as ATL, BWI, MDW, DEN, LAS, BNA, PHX, and STL.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:26 pm

jplatts wrote:

While HOU is closer to Downtown Houston, Uptown Houston, the Texas Medical Center, the Kemah Boardwalk, NASA, and Galveston than IAH is, WN re-entering IAH might be a possibility with
(a) IAH and HOU being located approximately 29 miles from each other on opposite sides of the city of Houston,
(b) some of the northern Houston suburbs being located 30 to 55 miles north of HOU,
(c) WN ceding some passengers traveling to or from Greater Houston to other airlines that serve IAH (even in WN strongholds that have daily nonstop service to HOU on WN), whereas WN is capturing some traffic traveling to Greater Houston from other U.S. cities that other airlines aren't due to HOU being closer to many major business and tourist destinations in Greater Houston,
(d) demand for WN service out of Houston being greater than was the case at the time of WN's pullout of IAH in April 2005,
(e) WN stating that it had plans to further expand in the Houston market back on a earnings call in October 2019, and
(f) WN serving more than one airport in some other markets such as BWI/DCA/IAD in the Baltimore/DC market, SFO/OAK/SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area, LAX/BUR/LGB/SNA/ONT in Greater Los Angeles, LGA/ISP in the NYC metro area, BOS/PVD/MHT in Greater Boston, and FLL/PBI in South Florida.

If WN does re-enter IAH, I would certainly expect WN to add nonstop service to IAH from some destinations outside of Texas such as ATL, BWI, MDW, DEN, LAS, BNA, PHX, and STL.


Ain't. Gonna. Happen.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
enplaned
Posts: 83
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:56 pm

caribbeanSwag wrote:
Updates have came in from Andrew Levy's planned airline.

First, the airline has commenced charter air service, which they claimed they'd start over the summer and apparently went through with.

Second, they've moved in to their larger corporate offices in Uptown on San Felipe.

All information seen from their current fleet is that they've leased from GECAS, but isn't currently released. Just that it's entirely 737-800 based.

Final name still isn't determined, but the business entity is named as "Houston Air Holdings" while the current airline is continuing the "Xtra Airways" moniker.


Source?
 
jplatts
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:13 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
Ain't. Gonna. Happen.


I agree that WN is unlikely to return to IAH, even if WN can make service out of both IAH and HOU work, due to (a) WN having expanded both domestically and internationally out of HOU in the last 15 years and (b) HOU being closer than IAH is to many of the major business and tourist destinations in Greater Houston.
 
jplatts
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:12 pm

There are a few more routes that could be added by G4 out of HOU such as HOU-CVG, HOU-LAS, and HOU-SRQ once demand for domestic air travel returns.

G4 adding less-than-daily nonstop service to HOU from some markets that do not currently have any nonstop service to IAH our HOU such as ALB, IAG, ROC, and SYR might also be a possibility with HOU being closer to many major tourist destinations in Greater Houston than IAH is, including Galveston, Kemah Boardwalk, NASA, and Downtown Houston.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:01 pm

jplatts wrote:
While HOU is closer to Downtown Houston, Uptown Houston, the Texas Medical Center, the Kemah Boardwalk, NASA, and Galveston than IAH is, WN re-entering IAH might be a possibility with
(a) IAH and HOU being located approximately 29 miles from each other on opposite sides of the city of Houston,
(b) some of the northern Houston suburbs being located 30 to 55 miles north of HOU,
(c) WN ceding some passengers traveling to or from Greater Houston to other airlines that serve IAH (even in WN strongholds that have daily nonstop service to HOU on WN), whereas WN is capturing some traffic traveling to Greater Houston from other U.S. cities that other airlines aren't due to HOU being closer to many major business and tourist destinations in Greater Houston,
(d) demand for WN service out of Houston being greater than was the case at the time of WN's pullout of IAH in April 2005,
(e) WN stating that it had plans to further expand in the Houston market back on a earnings call in October 2019, and
(f) WN serving more than one airport in some other markets such as BWI/DCA/IAD in the Baltimore/DC market, SFO/OAK/SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area, LAX/BUR/LGB/SNA/ONT in Greater Los Angeles, LGA/ISP in the NYC metro area, BOS/PVD/MHT in Greater Boston, and FLL/PBI in South Florida.

If WN does re-enter IAH, I would certainly expect WN to add nonstop service to IAH from some destinations outside of Texas such as ATL, BWI, MDW, DEN, LAS, BNA, PHX, and STL.

IF SWA returned to IAH, it will be (in this order), DAL, MDW, then maybe DEN and BWI.
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:53 pm

jplatts wrote:

I agree that WN is unlikely to return to IAH, even if WN can make service out of both IAH and HOU work, due to (a) WN having expanded both domestically and internationally out of HOU in the last 15 years and (b) HOU being closer than IAH is to many of the major business and tourist destinations in Greater Houston.


Many many businesses have offices closer to IAH than HOU BEACUSE of the global connections offered at IAH. HOU serves its purpose, but this IF and MAY and COULD stuff is just nonsense.
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jplatts
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:29 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
jplatts wrote:

I agree that WN is unlikely to return to IAH, even if WN can make service out of both IAH and HOU work, due to (a) WN having expanded both domestically and internationally out of HOU in the last 15 years and (b) HOU being closer than IAH is to many of the major business and tourist destinations in Greater Houston.


Many many businesses have offices closer to IAH than HOU BEACUSE of the global connections offered at IAH. HOU serves its purpose, but this IF and MAY and COULD stuff is just nonsense.


I agree with your point about some businesses in Greater Houston having offices that are closer to IAH than to HOU.

Reasons why I had mentioned the possibility of WN returning to IAH at some point, even if WN re-entering IAH is unlikely to happen anytime soon, include
(a) IAH being one of the original destinations served by WN, even though WN had served HOU since November 14, 1971,
(b) IAH and HOU being in opposite direction of travel from Downtown Houston (whereas DAL and DFW are both located northwest of Downtown Dallas and LGA and JFK are both located east of Manhattan), and
(c) IAH and HOU being further from each other than DAL/DFW or LGA/JFK.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:30 pm

jplatts wrote:

Reasons why I had mentioned the possibility of WN returning to IAH at some point, even if WN re-entering IAH is unlikely to happen anytime soon, include
(a) IAH being one of the original destinations served by WN, even though WN had served HOU since November 14, 1971,
(b) IAH and HOU being in opposite direction of travel from Downtown Houston (whereas DAL and DFW are both located northwest of Downtown Dallas and LGA and JFK are both located east of Manhattan), and
(c) IAH and HOU being further from each other than DAL/DFW or LGA/JFK.


(a) Sentiment means nothing these days.

(b) And EWR is west of Manhattan, WN dumped it.

(c) FLL and MIA are 3 air miles closer to each other than IAH and HOU. Where's that big MIA operation for WN? Right.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
jplatts
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Re: Houston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:16 pm

Here is the breakdown of WN service out of HOU in September 2020:
5x ATL, 3x AUS, 4x BNA, 3x BWI, 2x CRP, 3x CUN, 10x DAL, 7x DEN, 1x ECP, 1x ELP, 3x FLL, 2x HRL, 1x IND, 1x JAX, 4x LAS, 3x LAX, 2x MAF, 1x MCI, 5x MCO, 6x MDW, 3x MSY, 2x OAK, 3x OKC, 5x PHX, 1x PNS, 2x SAN, 3x SAT, 1x SJD, 2x STL, 2x TPA

81 daily departures
HOU-ABQ/AMA/BHM/BUR/BZE/CHS/CLT/CMH/CZM/DCA/LBB/LGA/MEM/MKE/OMA/PIT/PVR/RDU/SJC/SJO/TUL nonstop service suspended

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