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Clackers
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Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT - why?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:50 pm

VS these days are a shadow of its former self, with routes being lost left right and centre (especially Caribbean and east asia). Why exactly did VS end their service to Tokyo and Hong Kong? If BA can fly daily then the demand is there in theory - and what's so special for VS that they continue PVG?
 
hsuthe19
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:54 pm

VS still flies to HKG.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:55 pm

VS still flies to HKG. NRT was dropped a while ago. No feed there and plenty of competition. Unlikely they will resume Tokyo at all, unless they can get a slot at HND as presumably they'd want to leverage any cost savings associated with co-locating with Delta.
 
x1234
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:56 pm

VS still flies to HKG. VS206/207. They pulled out of Tokyo because the trend is to fly to Haneda which VS didn't get any slots. I believe if they get HND slots they will return. As to the other high yielding city in Asia of SIN, well SQ over-kills it with multiple A380's and on the low end there's the ME3 (less of a detour than the northern asian cities).
 
chonetsao
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:56 pm

Air China and China Eastern.

1, Delta and China Eastern are in a great relationship, VS is partially owned by Delta. You can see where the future is heading.
2, There is no partner for VS in TYO and HKG, but VS has a long term cooperation with Air China on PEK-LHR and PVG-LHR routes. So VS flies LHR PVG and Air China flies PEK LHR. They codeshare on each other's China route and have a degree of cooperation. However, I wonder if this would last long. It may soon be replaced by China Eastern when the current contract end.
3, Also I think VS still has a sizable crew base in Shanghai.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:26 pm

Did VS ever make money flying to NRT? Also, PVG is Shanghai, which is the economic nerve center of China. I'm actually a bit surprised that VS hasn't announced ICN yet, as a noontime departure could feed KE's morning bank.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:29 pm

Clackers wrote:
VS these days are a shadow of its former self, with routes being lost left right and centre (especially Caribbean and east asia). Why exactly did VS end their service to Tokyo and Hong Kong? If BA can fly daily then the demand is there in theory - and what's so special for VS that they continue PVG?


How is VS a “shadow of its former self” - it’s larger than ever really? They haven’t dropped *that* many routes; indeed, they’ve added a number. At the start of the DL relationship, VS refocused to transatlantic routes, dropping many (this is important) unprofitable routes. The fact that there is demand does not mean an airline will make money.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:32 pm

With delta I expect VS to be on the road to record high profits. Focus on different routes but they will make money
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:36 pm

Clackers wrote:
VS these days are a shadow of its former self, with routes being lost left right and centre (especially Caribbean and east asia). Why exactly did VS end their service to Tokyo and Hong Kong? If BA can fly daily then the demand is there in theory - and what's so special for VS that they continue PVG?


I don’t think it’s appropriate to say it’s a shadow of its former self. It’s expanding. It’s just bought Flybe and will make it it’s regional arm. It’s expanding at MAN and launched Tel Aviv, relaunching routes like Bombay. They have just invested in new Business Class and seem to be getting their act together.

Tokyo-London was a bit of a declining market but is now rebounding with second daily JAL flight. VS had no feed either side and Japanese passengers are more loyal to those carriers. The planes can be better used on other routes.

HKG is still going but SYD was dropped a while back. It didn’t make sense to send the plane on when they can codeshare with Virgin Australia.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:11 am

VS still flies to HKG. They just recently signed a JV with their Australian counterparts VA to form a SYD-HKG-LHR Route.

VS flies LHR-HKG with VA flying the HKG-SYD leg while codesharing on each other's flights.
 
hsuthe19
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:16 am

Also, this year, they just launched LHR-TLV, Relaunched LHR-BOM, ordered A339, purchased Flybe, and Announced LHR-GRU. I wouldn’t necessarily say VS is a shadow of its former self.
 
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janders
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:33 am

x1234 wrote:
They pulled out of Tokyo because the trend is to fly to Haneda which VS didn't get any slots. I believe if they get HND slots they will return.


VS announced it was dropping NRT back in 2014, and certainly could have had a good chance in getting into HND if it wanted once UK was additional allotted frequencies but chose to leave Japan instead of sticking it out.

Route was a money loser from comments at the time:

“Our ambition is to be profitable for the long term, earn competitive returns, and invest those into providing the very best experience for our customers on the routes they most want to fly. Trans-Atlantic flying has always been at the heart of our network and our most financially successful region. This announcement allows us to play to our strengths and focus our network on routes between the UK and US, that are most important to our customers.”
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
zkncj
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:07 am

SCFlyer wrote:
VS still flies to HKG. They just recently signed a JV with their Australian counterparts VA to form a SYD-HKG-LHR Route.

VS flies LHR-HKG with VA flying the HKG-SYD leg while codesharing on each other's flights.


In addition to that VS is offered by NZ for connections in HKG/PVG for passengers travelling on LHR. The VS connections are actively promoted by the NZ website when looking at fares to LHR.

Everything I’ve connected in PVG/HKG is plenty of passengers making this connection.

You’ll find an large percent of passengers on these VS services to HKG/PVG are travelling into Australia / New Zealand.
 
cedarjet
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:25 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Did VS ever make money flying to NRT?

I would have thought so, Tokyo (originally by 747-200B via Moscow) started in the 1980s. My business studies teacher went on it in about 1988. So yes absolutely, wouldn’t have hung around for decades if it wasn’t a cash cow. With Japan becoming a much more mainstream destination, I’m surprised a 787 can’t pay its way between London and Tokyo, especially with such a long established airline on the route. I know there isn’t much feed either end but who needs feed when you’ve got London at one end of the flight and Tokyo at the other. It’s not Charlotte to Frankfurt or Dallas to Abu Dhabi.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
TC957
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:45 am

PVG does well for cargo, but so did NRT when they operated it. One of the reasons NRT was dropped was the 787 delivery delays, NRT was originally due to be one of the first 787 routes.
 
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centrair
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:14 am

When I was looking to fly to the UK last year I was praying that I could do it to get my Skymiles but without VS, I'd have to fly via ICN, SVO, AMS or FCO.
I'm hoping they can get a slot at HND. NH, BA and JL are flying multiple flights per day between TYO and LHR. OneWorld splits the service between HND and NRT. I would think there is enough capacity for a 787 on the route. Does anyone have any numbers to back that up though?
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:36 am

VS originally plan to corporate with HX to let them fly the HKG-LHR and codeshare the flights.
And I believe the plan is no longer exist because of HX's cutback and financial difficulties.
 
Clackers
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:31 pm

I always wondered what the future holds for VS in Asia.

While Singapore is not possible because of the SQ/BA/QF triopoly (not to mention the ME3), and Bangkok probably for the same reasons (plus low yields), what about Saigon and Bali? The B787 in leisure config would make the distance right? Maybe even HKT or DAD. That would fit in well with Virgin Holidays customers, plus none of these are served with direct flights from LHR (apart from SGN with VN, but that's not even daily).

In East Asia, secondary Chinese cities like Chongqing or Kunming (maybe even Sanya) could be an idea, and as others have mentioned in this thread ICN.
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:51 pm

Clackers wrote:
VS these days are a shadow of its former self, with routes being lost left right and centre (especially Caribbean and east asia).


Sadly if it had stayed as it's 'Former Self' it would have hemorrhaged so much cash it likely wouldn't exist today.

Allow me to be pedantic for a second here, also. Virgin Atlantic was founded as a transatlantic airline, which it is now more than ever - it has to fly the routes where it can make money, it's a business,
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY // Upcoming: W6 A320, W6 A321, EVA 77W, VS 787-9m AS A320, VS A35K, KLM E190, KLM 738, LS 737
 
AAMDanny
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:05 pm

I'm not sure where you got the idea that HKG has been dropped as it's very much still active. They dropped the HKG-SYD segment a few years back due to mounting competition. Virgin did drop the short lived second daily HKG but that was before the HKG SYD was dropped.

As already discussed VS did give NRT a good try (21 years was it?), but the preference for a lot of pax was HND. VS did have a contract in place for helicopter transfers from NRT to Tokyo which was short lived as the helicopter firm went into bankruptcy shortly after the service commenced. IIRC VS was told they could have a HND service if they continued to serve NRT, obviously which would not had been viable, hence the decision to drop it. At the time VS did have a code share partnership with ANA which has now since been dropped.

Logically, I could see VS started LHR-PEK to compliment their daily PVG and HKG service.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:14 pm

If demand for travel to HKG does not rebound, it would not be surprising to see VS suspend or cut HKG completely.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:45 pm

Clackers wrote:
VS these days are a shadow of its former self, with routes being lost left right and centre (especially Caribbean and east asia). Why exactly did VS end their service to Tokyo and Hong Kong? If BA can fly daily then the demand is there in theory - and what's so special for VS that they continue PVG?

The only Caribbean destination to be axed is UVF, last flight is scheduled to be on 7 June.

VS makes more money on transatlantic in collaboration with DL than Asia.
 
airbazar
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:20 pm

I think we can all agree that the premise of the OP was incorrect. Not only does VS still fly to HKG but VS is today bigger than it has ever been and by next Summer it will server 5 of the 6 inhabited continents. End of discussion, close the thread :)
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:21 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
If demand for travel to HKG does not rebound, it would not be surprising to see VS suspend or cut HKG completely.

Definitely possible, though as stated prior, VS uses HKG as a hub to Australia/New Zealand, whereto it does a fair amount of business; adjusting that mix can potentially help sustain the HKG service during these difficult times.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:32 am

chonetsao wrote:
Air China and China Eastern.

1, Delta and China Eastern are in a great relationship, VS is partially owned by Delta. You can see where the future is heading.
2, There is no partner for VS in TYO and HKG, but VS has a long term cooperation with Air China on PEK-LHR and PVG-LHR routes. So VS flies LHR PVG and Air China flies PEK LHR. They codeshare on each other's China route and have a degree of cooperation. However, I wonder if this would last long. It may soon be replaced by China Eastern when the current contract end.
3, Also I think VS still has a sizable crew base in Shanghai.

Never heard of 3 and for 1 they dont corporate with MU in any form nor anytime in the future AFAIK. 2 is the real reason - the flight still carries CA code.

PVG-LON is also a large market although with recent frequency additions with MU/BA both flying twice daily each and CA entering the field not sure how much VS suffers.

Michael
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:49 am

gunnerman wrote:
Clackers wrote:
VS these days are a shadow of its former self, with routes being lost left right and centre (especially Caribbean and east asia). Why exactly did VS end their service to Tokyo and Hong Kong? If BA can fly daily then the demand is there in theory - and what's so special for VS that they continue PVG?

The only Caribbean destination to be axed is UVF, last flight is scheduled to be on 7 June.


Varadero and Cancun (if that part of Mexico counts as the Caribbean) have also been dropped in recent years, though this was before Thomas Cook went under and these two plus St Lucia were leisure routes operated from LGW. Going further back, there was Nassau during the 2000's that came and went along with Kingston being dropped in favour of Montego Bay. Other than that, it would be an exaggeration to say there's been a mass withdrawal from the Caribbean, particularly if these routes weren't viable at the time. With the 747's on the way out and TUI having some of the Caribbean market to themselves following the Thomas Cook collapse, some of these lost routes may be worth revisiting in the future.

With Asia, apart from the restarting of Mumbai, there's only been one casualty which was Tokyo Narita plus the extension of the Hong Kong flight the Sydney. The latter made sense given its presumed lack of profitability, tying up an A340 away from base for 2-3 days and competition from other airlines, plus I'd say it's not in their strategic interest to be serving Sydney by themselves.

In the case of Sydney, it's also worth bearing in mind BA may have dropped it too following the end of their alliance of Qantas had they not swapped the aircraft from a 747-400 to a 777 and worked the service with Mixed Fleet crew which helped with making the route viable for them.
 
Caluma350
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:49 pm

Clackers wrote:
VS these days are a shadow of its former self, with routes being lost left right and centre (especially Caribbean and east asia). Why exactly did VS end their service to Tokyo and Hong Kong? If BA can fly daily then the demand is there in theory - and what's so special for VS that they continue PVG?


Virgin was owned by Singapore airlines back in the days when they used to operate their more extensive route operation. However when Delta took over the 49% stake in VS their business plan was to focus on profitability and transatlantic routes. This lead to Virgin flying to Atlanta and cutting some of the old routs which did not make money such as Sydney.

As already discussed in this feed Virgin are in great shape with the JV with Delta and the ambition to grow when Heathrow gets the 3rd runway expansion.

Virgin are starting routs to Tel-Aviv / Mumbai / San Paulo, which have either started in 2019 or will be starting in 2020.

In my opinion Virgin is a far better run now than it has been at any time in the past. They are very professional when it comes to making sensible business decisions, and the overall business its strengthened by Delta, this is evident with Virgin pulling the pug on the deal for 31% going to Air France and KLM as Virgin believed that their position now was far stronger and did not want to be undervalued.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:51 pm

When VS ended its HKG-SYD tag in May 2014 it was the 12th European airline (namely KL, UT, LH, AZ, JU, OA, NG, AF, SU, IW and OS) to exit Australia, leaving BA as the sole European airline. Costs are too high for the Europeans compared to the Asian airlines who can funnel traffic through their hubs. VS also had the 346 which was too big for the little feed at HKG.

BA reduced its costs by halving its double-daily flights to SYD, switching from BKK to SIN where there is more feed from QF, downsizing from the 744 to the far cheaper 777-300ER and replacing the legacy cabin crew Worlwide Fleet with lower-paid Mixed Fleet.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:40 pm

cedarjet wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Did VS ever make money flying to NRT?

I would have thought so, Tokyo (originally by 747-200B via Moscow) started in the 1980s. My business studies teacher went on it in about 1988. So yes absolutely, wouldn’t have hung around for decades if it wasn’t a cash cow. With Japan becoming a much more mainstream destination, I’m surprised a 787 can’t pay its way between London and Tokyo, especially with such a long established airline on the route. I know there isn’t much feed either end but who needs feed when you’ve got London at one end of the flight and Tokyo at the other. It’s not Charlotte to Frankfurt or Dallas to Abu Dhabi.


In 1990 we flew VS LGW-JFK on "Maiden Japan" G-TKYO, I remember it was the December inflight magazine issue & they even highlighted the aircraft we were on within the Tokyo destination spread.

So at that time NRT was on the map & seemed rather important for their portfolio. I think as with many places, Japans economy runs very hot & very cold, they can have big tourism & business droughts. I suspect with likely only one or two landing slots at NRT, they were always limited as what they could do, often the real deals had all been given to BA over the past umpteen decades.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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EChid
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:54 pm

chonetsao wrote:
2, There is no partner for VS in TYO and HKG, but VS has a long term cooperation with Air China on PEK-LHR and PVG-LHR routes. So VS flies LHR PVG and Air China flies PEK LHR. They codeshare on each other's China route and have a degree of cooperation. However, I wonder if this would last long. It may soon be replaced by China Eastern when the current contract end.

As some others have mentioned, there's now a partner in HKG for VS in the form of VA, which then allows them access to the Australian market. Of course, no saying if that'll actually be profitable, but that's the plan.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:04 pm

Caluma350 wrote:

Virgin was owned by Singapore airlines back in the days when they used to operate their more extensive route operation.


VS was never owned by SQ, as you noted later they had a 49% share, SRB was firmly in control along with his pet CEO Steve Ridgway.

The SQ sale was simply a way for SRB to extract £600m from the business and into his pocket, they never had any operational control or say in the routes or service.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT - why?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:07 pm

In the days before VS added the HKG-SYD tag VS used to collaborate with Ansett for Australia flights. The daily HKG-SYD flights were operated with the 744 (5 times a week) and the 763 (2 times a week). I think there was also HKG-MEL with the 763 four times a week.
 
flyingisthebest
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT - why?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:21 pm

It would be logical for SQ/VS/VA/NZ (although VA and NZ in the same picture is ?) to have a JV for South East Asia and Australia/NZ. Especially from SQ multiple connections to the region at multiple frequencies. Currently the VA JV was half best as it requires a double connect from BNE/ADL/PER and on some days of the week MEL. When you have over 30 competitors who offer one stop flights in comparison to double connects; how do you compete?

The most logical partner is SQ given it still has its hands in VA. Also a VS flight from LHR-SIN would utilise the aircraft well in a JV as it would be flying at night the higher yielding times on UK to South East Asian flight. Knowing SQ though they don’t want to give up flights.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT - why?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:28 pm

flyingisthebest wrote:
It would be logical for SQ/VS/VA/NZ (although VA and NZ in the same picture is ?) to have a JV for South East Asia and Australia/NZ. Especially from SQ multiple connections to the region at multiple frequencies. Currently the VA JV was half best as it requires a double connect from BNE/ADL/PER and on some days of the week MEL. When you have over 30 competitors who offer one stop flights in comparison to double connects; how do you compete?

The most logical partner is SQ given it still has its hands in VA. Also a VS flight from LHR-SIN would utilise the aircraft well in a JV as it would be flying at night the higher yielding times on UK to South East Asian flight. Knowing SQ though they don’t want to give up flights.


Not sure what would be in it for SQ since they can do LHR-Oz on their own. Today alone they have 4x LHR-SIN and 1x SIN-CHC, 2x SIN-AKL, 5x SIN-SYD, 4x SIN-BNE, 5x SIN-MEL, 1x SIN-CBR (through SYD), 2x SIN-ADL, 4x SIN-PER, 2x SIN-DRW (with Silk), and 2x SIN-CNS (with Silk). No need to muddy the waters with VS.
 
panamair
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:44 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
and for 1 they dont corporate with MU in any form nor anytime in the future AFAIK. 2 is the real reason - the flight still carries CA code.


Actually VS has applied to join the JV with MU and AF-KL. VS and MU will first codeshare on PVG-LON services as well as connections beyond..

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... -jv-501750
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT - why?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:07 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
flyingisthebest wrote:
It would be logical for SQ/VS/VA/NZ (although VA and NZ in the same picture is ?) to have a JV for South East Asia and Australia/NZ. Especially from SQ multiple connections to the region at multiple frequencies. Currently the VA JV was half best as it requires a double connect from BNE/ADL/PER and on some days of the week MEL. When you have over 30 competitors who offer one stop flights in comparison to double connects; how do you compete?

The most logical partner is SQ given it still has its hands in VA. Also a VS flight from LHR-SIN would utilise the aircraft well in a JV as it would be flying at night the higher yielding times on UK to South East Asian flight. Knowing SQ though they don’t want to give up flights.


Not sure what would be in it for SQ since they can do LHR-Oz on their own. Today alone they have 4x LHR-SIN and 1x SIN-CHC, 2x SIN-AKL, 5x SIN-SYD, 4x SIN-BNE, 5x SIN-MEL, 1x SIN-CBR (through SYD), 2x SIN-ADL, 4x SIN-PER, 2x SIN-DRW (with Silk), and 2x SIN-CNS (with Silk). No need to muddy the waters with VS.


SQ does very well on the market and has extremely large brand awareness and loyalty in Australia, to point where SQ could do it on it's own without VA.

However the VA/SQ JV is due to "expire" at the end of Q3 2021. Whether SQ decides to renew that JV or not (which also includes divesting their 20% stake in VA) is another question and topic entirely. It's been known that SQ has attributed VA's losses to their group's own profit downturns in the past few yearly financial reports.
 
Caluma350
Posts: 31
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Re: Virgin still flies to PVG but gave up NRT and HKG - why?

Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:04 am

jetwet1 wrote:
Caluma350 wrote:

Virgin was owned by Singapore airlines back in the days when they used to operate their more extensive route operation.


VS was never owned by SQ, as you noted later they had a 49% share, SRB was firmly in control along with his pet CEO Steve Ridgway.

The SQ sale was simply a way for SRB to extract £600m from the business and into his pocket, they never had any operational control or say in the routes or service.


Understood, I completely agree with you. What I was trying to say was the Delta connection has had far more of an impact on the Virgin business model than Singapore ever did, and has been a far more successful partnership.

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Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos