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flymco753
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:31 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
If the US economy remains hot and travel continues to be at record levels, these routes could make sense seasonally.
At that point, OTP & BUD would probably work best out of JFK where they could probably make WAW work from DTW because of the fact that there is so much connecting opportunities within the Midwest including ORD. Honestly if they picked up connections from ORD, MDW, & MKE along with local traffic it COULD be doable.
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VTORD
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Re: Delta Network Thread 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:55 pm

bfitzflyer wrote:
PHXWRLD wrote:
VTORD wrote:
I think JFK-BOM is 5x after the winter. If it does well, they should probably make it daily first before opening another route. Personally I don't see HYD coming before DEL.


HYD would probably get FRA as well as CDG and/or AMS before NYC.


My reasoning behind HYD and BLR is that DEL is already served from a few US gateways and HYD and BLR are big business destinations in their own rights and not served nonstop from the US. All hypothetical, but DL first has to make BOM work before anything else in India is going to happen.

Agreed that they need to make BOM work first.
Re: HYD and BLR,
Sky Team has steadily increased the presence in India after 9W folded in DEL, BOM and BLR through VS, AF and KL other than DL. So BLR which has seen additions from LH as well as the A350 from BA (started Jan 1), will probably be good for capacity / demand for some time. HYD is best handled by DL via Sky Team partners through CDG/AMS. It used to see service from both LH and KL (2008 there about) and is now down to BA (which seems to be doing well). I don't think HYD is ready for a US non-stop. Yet.

FWIW 9W used to have MAA - CDG flights. I see that void being filled before HYD.

panamair wrote:
JFK-BOM has been increased to daily year round. It was showing 5x weekly off-season initially.

Thank you! I wasn't aware.
 
marcogr12
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:25 pm

Do we know where the A350 will be flying to and the A339neos? Any chance will them in Europe?
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PHXWRLD
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:40 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
Do we know where the A350 will be flying to and the A339neos? Any chance will them in Europe?


A350s are currently just Asia+AMS, while the A339s are running SEA-Asia for now.
 
panamair
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:18 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
New international flying likely won't be announced before summer / fall timeframe for a 2021 start.


The exceptions are the Southern Hemisphere routes where new routes usually start around December, and these are usually announced in the spring. I could see some Latin America changes for W20-21 given the LatAm alliance, which have yet to be announced.
 
panamair
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:27 pm

PHXWRLD wrote:

A350s are currently just Asia+AMS, while the A339s are running SEA-Asia for now.


One of the SEA-AMS flights goes A339 in the late summer (I checked August for example).
 
Lootess
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:32 pm

The A330neos are primarily going out of SEA for the foreseeable future, enhancing that market. It'll get mixed with AMS.
 
NateGreat
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm

Lootess wrote:
The A330neos are primarily going out of SEA for the foreseeable future, enhancing that market. It'll get mixed with AMS.

What about CDG after AMS?
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:50 pm

jadamczyk wrote:
Looks like Delta already cancelled DTW-Honolulu. Not loaded for this summer. I had a feeling it wouldn't last long.

This flight is seasonal. Not cancelled.
 
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DL747400
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:20 pm

jadamczyk wrote:
Looks like Delta already cancelled DTW-Honolulu. Not loaded for this summer. I had a feeling it wouldn't last long.


Wait, I thought EVERYTHING from DTW was golden and guaranteed to succeed? :rotfl:
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DL747400
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:28 pm

flymco753 wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Is 2020 the year that DL finally gets into Poland? I'd assume JFK would be highest priority followed by DTW due to ethnic population size and geographical location.


Good grief yes, I hope DELTA brings back at least seasonal service to WAW, but also to OTP and BUD.
All 3 would be fair candidates to be announced this year. I think it's difficult for DL to get into Eastern Europe with such an established JV presence in both AMS & CDG.


How so? DL/AF/KL (and now including VS) all sell the transatlantic as a single entity, regardless of who operates the flight. That means AF/KL/VS can each sell seats on any potential DL nonstop service from the USA to Eastern Europe and share the revenues, costs and profits.

The benefit for U.S. POS is consumers would be avoiding connections via AMS or CDG.

The benefit for EU POS would be that AF/KL could free up that U.S. to WAW, OTP and BUD inventory previously via AMS and CDG, allowing them to offer more inventory for sale in markets offering greater profit potential.
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All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:40 pm

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
jadamczyk wrote:
Looks like Delta already cancelled DTW-Honolulu. Not loaded for this summer. I had a feeling it wouldn't last long.

This flight is seasonal. Not cancelled.


Is this flight just around for peak Christmas-New Year's now? I flew through HNL a week ago and saw this flight loading up. However, I don't believe it's for sale during the summer like it was last year. Has it become like JFK-HNL which only really operates for a few weeks each year?
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x1234
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:43 pm

DL is better off flying JFK-HNL.
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:45 pm

717atOGG wrote:
Also Delta should be receiving the A321neo this year...any rumors or predictions as to first bases/routes? I heard something about them replacing the 752s on LAX/SEA-HI first, but nothing certain yet.
DeltaRules wrote:
Hope springs eternal for CMH-AMS/CDG. CRAA still wants TATL and they've been confirmed as having talked to DL. The pairing makes sense given DL's presence and recent growth at CMH (with SLC back, they serve all hubs, plus some P2P, and have retrenched back to their original 1995 gates on C) and the possibility for a SkyClub on Concourse C.

24Whiskey wrote:

In AUS the 220 downgauged 320 flights. In years before this was done with the CR9. For now AUS’ growth has been in the form of mainline 320-only flying and has become one of the largest outstations for the type. RDU and CVG being the exception with CR9 service.

As the 220 grows and continues to upgauge CR9 flying (like DFW-JFK) I hope it means new AUS routes or frequency increases. I could see RDU going 2xCR9 or maybe CMH or IND starting.


CMH-SLC on the 220 was also a downgauge from the 319. I could also see CMH and AUS being linked if AUS is grown- F9 and G4 couldn't make it work, but DL with connections might.

Don't forget CMH-SEA; DL doesn't serve that one, although given that AS is going 2x daily on the route next summer it would be a challenge to squeeze in. They do still have a chance with SEA-CLE however, as only F9 serves the route sub-daily during the summer and the route did well in the CO hub days (even receiving 753 service one summer).


They won't be based anywhere per se, but I'm hearing the first route will be SEA-HNL, followed by SEA-KOA. The SEA-KOA would be flown ATL-SEA-KOA-SEA-ATL.

We won't hear any announcements for 6 months or so, and with the delivery delays from Airbus, may be longer than that.
 
evank516
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Re: Delta Network Thread 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:53 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

I don't think one can expect too much of that with SLC and NYC bases. If there are substantiated plans for a DTW or MSP base that would change chances for the better - significantly.


Except the routes from the coasts to the midwest were very much highlighted as part of the original plan for the A220 to fly the longer thin routes from both coasts to the central part of the country and replace the large RJs so they can be used to replace the 50 seat jets.


If that were the original plan they wouldn't have agreed to a low average stage length. Post number 6 and beyond. viewtopic.php?t=1386429


Well aware of that agreement. However check out the stage lengths of many of these A220 routes, you have LGA-DFW, DTW-DFW, SEA-MCI, LGA-IAH, JFK-IAH, JFK-DFW, JFK-MSP, JFK-SLC and then the short hop that is LGA-BOS to name a few. Rotate the plane on that short route and you drastically decrease the average stage length. Add in the JFK-DTW hop as well which is slightly over 500 miles. If that really was an issue you wouldn't see these long 1,000+ mile flights being switched over to A220s. Pretty sure Delta knows how to manage this.
 
ahj2000
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:58 am

Speaking of potential A220 routes, why is ELP only served by ATL in the Delta network? I understand Texas is Delta's weakest point domestically post-DFW hub, but why is there not even a route to SLC? AA manages to pull in 5ish flights to PHX and 3 flights to LAX, and UA offers 4 flights west to Denver. Hell, even AS has a daily to SEA.
Why wouldn't a pair of E170s to SLC work for ELP?
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TransWorldOne
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:24 am

ahj2000 wrote:
Speaking of potential A220 routes, why is ELP only served by ATL in the Delta network? I understand Texas is Delta's weakest point domestically post-DFW hub, but why is there not even a route to SLC? AA manages to pull in 5ish flights to PHX and 3 flights to LAX, and UA offers 4 flights west to Denver. Hell, even AS has a daily to SEA.
Why wouldn't a pair of E170s to SLC work for ELP?


DL has added and dropped SLC-ELP more times than I can count in the past decade. I don't understand why they have such a hard time making that route work. It historically has been operated by a SkyWest CRJ.
 
Antoli0794
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:55 am

TransWorldOne wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
Speaking of potential A220 routes, why is ELP only served by ATL in the Delta network? I understand Texas is Delta's weakest point domestically post-DFW hub, but why is there not even a route to SLC? AA manages to pull in 5ish flights to PHX and 3 flights to LAX, and UA offers 4 flights west to Denver. Hell, even AS has a daily to SEA.
Why wouldn't a pair of E170s to SLC work for ELP?


DL has added and dropped SLC-ELP more times than I can count in the past decade. I don't understand why they have such a hard time making that route work. It historically has been operated by a SkyWest CRJ.



Or maybe try MSP. NWA served the route back in 2005
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:45 am

FSDan wrote:
Is this flight just around for peak Christmas-New Year's now? I flew through HNL a week ago and saw this flight loading up. However, I don't believe it's for sale during the summer like it was last year. Has it become like JFK-HNL which only really operates for a few weeks each year?


Looks like it. Christmas is basically it. After Sunday's flight there's only a couple Saturdays in February and one Friday in April. DTW-HNL is consistently inconsistent. Calling it seasonal is a stretch.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:20 am

I would like to see CVG-MSY,SAN return and PHX go back to year round. Delta self sabatoged a lot of CVG flights when they screwed with the times. When CVG-MEM was 2X CR2 it maintained an 85% load factor. When it moved to 1X CR9 that was poorly timed for any connections or anyone originating in MEM it dropped to 24% and gave Delta the excuse to drop it. CVG was very convenient to connect from MEM. The flight was less than an hour and you didn't have to deal with ATL.
 
bluecrew
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:42 am

Atlwarrior wrote:
With so many Christians visiting Israel. Atlanta to Tel Aviv should come back as a seasonal route.

The real question here is the feed.
I think you're on to something... I wouldn't be shocked to see ATL-TLV as a year-round service. If the A330-200 has the legs could be a good place to park a few of those. DL has JFK-TLV now which does fine, but such a gigantic feed operation in ATL that they can make work routes that no other US carrier has attempted, like JNB. Just about as many of those have failed, but hey, worth a shot?
Lots of Christians visiting Israel, but also tourism has ramped up, also service from the US isn't *great* with LY offering a lot of 3-4/week service, or you get to go to LHR or CDG and sit there for 6-7 hours. I could see ATL-TLV survive with a lot of feed from all over FL (which DL has in ATL), and a mix of premium passengers and feed from the west coast.
Last edited by bluecrew on Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
asaad11
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:43 am

Does anyone for see a change of equipment for the JFK-TLV? I know now they are strictly using the 242T A330. I wondered if it will eventually be switched so the aircraft is not always payload optimized and can always carry all passengers and cargo.
 
bluecrew
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:56 am

asaad11 wrote:
Does anyone for see a change of equipment for the JFK-TLV? I know now they are strictly using the 242T A330. I wondered if it will eventually be switched so the aircraft is not always payload optimized and can always carry all passengers and cargo.

I believe previously it was a B77L, but they don't have many of those and I'm sure they found a better use for it.
It's a hottt market but lots of competition from ELY.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:05 am

bluecrew wrote:
Atlwarrior wrote:
With so many Christians visiting Israel. Atlanta to Tel Aviv should come back as a seasonal route.

The real question here is the feed.
I think you're on to something... I wouldn't be shocked to see ATL-TLV as a year-round service. If the A330-200 has the legs could be a good place to park a few of those. DL has JFK-TLV now which does fine, but such a gigantic feed operation in ATL that they can make work routes that no other US carrier has attempted, like JNB. Just about as many of those have failed, but hey, worth a shot?
Lots of Christians visiting Israel, but also tourism has ramped up, also service from the US isn't *great* with LY offering a lot of 3-4/week service, or you get to go to LHR or CDG and sit there for 6-7 hours. I could see ATL-TLV survive with a lot of feed from all over FL (which DL has in ATL), and a mix of premium passengers and feed from the west coast.


Tel Aviv is insanely well served from the States. While LY frequency might only be 3-4x weekly from some places, it has no feed on either end, so it’s purely relying on local traffic. TLV has non-stops to JFK, Newark, Boston, Dulles, Miami, Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles, Las Vegas and San Francisco. That’s basically all it’s major O&D markets (plus Dallas thrown in).

Not saying ATLTLV doesn’t make sense because I can certainly see a case for it.
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haye5377
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:18 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
Speaking of potential A220 routes, why is ELP only served by ATL in the Delta network? I understand Texas is Delta's weakest point domestically post-DFW hub, but why is there not even a route to SLC? AA manages to pull in 5ish flights to PHX and 3 flights to LAX, and UA offers 4 flights west to Denver. Hell, even AS has a daily to SEA.
Why wouldn't a pair of E170s to SLC work for ELP?


Texas is definitely a weak point in DL's network. I recently had to fly into CRP and didn't realize why I couldn't find it on DL's app before I realized they don't even serve a city of ~300k whatsoever.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:58 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
I would like to see CVG-MSY,SAN return and PHX go back to year round. Delta self sabatoged a lot of CVG flights when they screwed with the times. When CVG-MEM was 2X CR2 it maintained an 85% load factor. When it moved to 1X CR9 that was poorly timed for any connections or anyone originating in MEM it dropped to 24% and gave Delta the excuse to drop it. CVG was very convenient to connect from MEM. The flight was less than an hour and you didn't have to deal with ATL.


There is no conspiracy, if an airline wants to drop a route they will drop it, they don't need to intentionally decrease LF in order to have an excuse to drop a route.

I don't see much growth coming from CVG, here is what Delta said in their investor day:

Glen Hauenstein-

"So, when we think about our size in Cincinnati or Memphis, we are still the number one carrier in Cincinnati. We're still the number one carrier in Memphis. We've taken billions and billions of dollars of assets out of those cities, and we relocated them to places that matter, places with big spend, places where we can get credit card acquisitions that count. And I think that's really been a secret for us in the last few years."

https://seekingalpha.com/article/431229 ... art=single

24Whiskey wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
The A220's flying has expanded a lot in DEC,at one point up to 20/21 aircraft were in the air at the same time along with plenty flights into KAUS & KCMH on top


In AUS the 220 downgauged 320 flights. In years before this was done with the CR9. For now AUS’ growth has been in the form of mainline 320-only flying and has become one of the largest outstations for the type. RDU and CVG being the exception with CR9 service.

As the 220 grows and continues to upgauge CR9 flying (like DFW-JFK) I hope it means new AUS routes or frequency increases. I could see RDU going 2xCR9 or maybe CMH or IND starting.


I think if DL starts p2p flying from AUS, it will be to PDX, LAS, CMH, IND, and/or MCO, relatively unserved or underserved markets, with strong DL stations, and/or large tourism draws.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:12 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
I think if DL starts p2p flying from AUS, it will be to PDX, LAS, CMH, IND, and/or MCO, relatively unserved or underserved markets, with strong DL stations, and/or large tourism draws.


That me be a while in the future - a long while. DL isn't even doing SEA-AUS daily, let alone PDX. LAX-AUS is getting nothing bigger than 319s (the week of 1/12/20, anyway).

LAS-AUS is more difficult to predict, a big volume leisure route but with WN, NK and F9 non-stops - with F9 fares starting at $31 o/w. Anyone can fill planes XXX-MCO - but at what average fares?
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:41 pm

I would like to see A220 flights from ORF and RIC to.SLC. In the last year UA started mainline flights to DEN and they have been very successful. I'm fact they added a second daily RIC-DEN flight.
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HVNandrew
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:41 pm

haye5377 wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
Speaking of potential A220 routes, why is ELP only served by ATL in the Delta network? I understand Texas is Delta's weakest point domestically post-DFW hub, but why is there not even a route to SLC? AA manages to pull in 5ish flights to PHX and 3 flights to LAX, and UA offers 4 flights west to Denver. Hell, even AS has a daily to SEA.
Why wouldn't a pair of E170s to SLC work for ELP?


Texas is definitely a weak point in DL's network. I recently had to fly into CRP and didn't realize why I couldn't find it on DL's app before I realized they don't even serve a city of ~300k whatsoever.


As a station, CRP might be one of the biggest holes in the DL domestic network. It's really mind-boggling to me that DL can't even maintain token service to ATL out of CRP. I believe shortly after the merger, DL added CRP-MEM on RJs, but this did not last very long.

MIflyer12 wrote:
That me be a while in the future - a long while. DL isn't even doing SEA-AUS daily, let alone PDX. LAX-AUS is getting nothing bigger than 319s (the week of 1/12/20, anyway).

LAS-AUS is more difficult to predict, a big volume leisure route but with WN, NK and F9 non-stops - with F9 fares starting at $31 o/w. Anyone can fill planes XXX-MCO - but at what average fares?


While not classified by DL as such, LAS currently operates as more of a "focus city" than AUS, with extensive service to all DL hubs and a significant/growing western P2P network. If DL is going to build out P2P service out of AUS, I think LAS would be at the top of the list, more because of the operations that already exist at the latter.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:50 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
I think if DL starts p2p flying from AUS, it will be to PDX, LAS, CMH, IND, and/or MCO, relatively unserved or underserved markets, with strong DL stations, and/or large tourism draws.


That me be a while in the future - a long while. DL isn't even doing SEA-AUS daily, let alone PDX. LAX-AUS is getting nothing bigger than 319s (the week of 1/12/20, anyway).

LAS-AUS is more difficult to predict, a big volume leisure route but with WN, NK and F9 non-stops - with F9 fares starting at $31 o/w. Anyone can fill planes XXX-MCO - but at what average fares?


When you say DL isn't even doing SEA-AUS daily, its worth noting that they operate it 6x weekly outside of summer, and that is very common for most of DL's SEA routes. Currently, SEA-MCI/BNA/IND/MKE operate 6x weekly (which is basically daily), and SEA-CVG is 4x weekly most of the year. Not having a flight between AUS-SEA on Saturdays during off-peak season shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Using the week of 1/12/20 is odd, as that is choosing thing lowest month of service in the entire year. Regardless, DL runs LAX-AUS 2xA320 + 1xA319 for the majority of the year, which is plenty of aircraft on a route that sometimes sees 13+ flights a day.

Very hard to build a focus city (or FF base) in a market without serving a major leisure market:
DL Focus city in RDU-MCO/FLL/MIA/CUN/LAS/RSW/e.t.c
DL Focus city in CVG-MCO/FLL/CUN/RSW/LAS/TPA/e.t.c

Not focus cities, but markets with large FF bases:
AA in BOS, BOS-EYW/MBJ/NAS/PUJ/CUN/GCM/PLS
UA in CLE, CLE-FLL/RSW/MCO
DL in IND/CMH, IND/CMH-MIA/RSW/MCO/CUN

If DL plans to grow its FF base in AUS, which they do, AUS-LAS or AUS-MCO/Florida most certainly would be a part of the equation
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flymco753
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:52 pm

If DL were to get into ZAG, which hub would it be from assuming UA flies it from EWR and AA from PHL. The Midwest has a lot of Croats so would they make them go through JFK or BOS?
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:55 pm

HVNandrew wrote:


As a station, CRP might be one of the biggest holes in the DL domestic network. It's really mind-boggling to me that DL can't even maintain token service to ATL out of CRP. I believe shortly after the merger, DL added CRP-MEM on RJs, but this did not last very long.



DL did fly ATL-CRP on the CRJ-200, but I think the route ended about the time when all DL Connection flights that long were upgauged.

Note, too, that MAF, LBB, and AMA are even larger markets in Texas not served by DL.
 
jplatts
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:59 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
Speaking of potential A220 routes, why is ELP only served by ATL in the Delta network? I understand Texas is Delta's weakest point domestically post-DFW hub, but why is there not even a route to SLC? AA manages to pull in 5ish flights to PHX and 3 flights to LAX, and UA offers 4 flights west to Denver. Hell, even AS has a daily to SEA.
Why wouldn't a pair of E170s to SLC work for ELP?


There are hubs other than ATL and SLC that DL could add nonstop service to out of ELP such as LAX, MSP, DTW, JFK, and BOS.

Here are the Q2 2019 PDEW's for ELP to DL hub markets:
ELP-ATL - 89
ELP-BOS - 66
ELP-DTW - 48
ELP-LAX/BUR/LGB/SNA/ONT - 326
ELP-MSP - 37
ELP-NYC - 145
ELP-SLC - 41
ELP-SEA - 108

DL adding ELP-BOS and ELP-JFK nonstop service are possibilities with BOS and JFK being two of the top destinations that aren't currently served nonstop out of ELP on any airline. DL can probably easily fill an A220, A319, A320, or 737 on ELP-JFK due to (a) the amount of O&D demand that exists between ELP and NYC, (b) connections to New England and transatlantic flights that are available at JFK on DL, and (c) the NYC market currently lacking any nonstop service out of ELP.

BOS is clearly too far from ELP to be served nonstop on a regional jet as BOS is 2067 miles east of ELP, but DL might be able to possibly fill an A220-100 on BOS-ELP.

I think that DL adding ELP-JFK nonstop service is more likely than the other DL hubs due to NYC having more demand from the ELP than the other DL hub markets that aren't currently served nonstop from ELP.
 
HVNandrew
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:13 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
HVNandrew wrote:


As a station, CRP might be one of the biggest holes in the DL domestic network. It's really mind-boggling to me that DL can't even maintain token service to ATL out of CRP. I believe shortly after the merger, DL added CRP-MEM on RJs, but this did not last very long.



DL did fly ATL-CRP on the CRJ-200, but I think the route ended about the time when all DL Connection flights that long were upgauged.

Note, too, that MAF, LBB, and AMA are even larger markets in Texas not served by DL.

MFE is also relatively large and no longer has DL service. It's just strange to me that those secondary TX markets can't support 2-3x service to ATL on a CR7. Those must be the largest cities in the US without any DL service?
 
Jano
Posts: 760
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:48 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:36 pm

Hopefully, one day DL will restart ATL-PRG.
The Widget Air Line :)
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8300
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:29 pm

HVNandrew wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
HVNandrew wrote:


As a station, CRP might be one of the biggest holes in the DL domestic network. It's really mind-boggling to me that DL can't even maintain token service to ATL out of CRP. I believe shortly after the merger, DL added CRP-MEM on RJs, but this did not last very long.



DL did fly ATL-CRP on the CRJ-200, but I think the route ended about the time when all DL Connection flights that long were upgauged.

Note, too, that MAF, LBB, and AMA are even larger markets in Texas not served by DL.

MFE is also relatively large and no longer has DL service. It's just strange to me that those secondary TX markets can't support 2-3x service to ATL on a CR7. Those must be the largest cities in the US without any DL service?


CR7s are high-CASM planes. Where do MAF/LBB/AMA/MFE travelers need to go such that hubs at DFW/IAH/HOU/DAL can't get them there?
 
jplatts
Posts: 3717
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:21 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
CR7s are high-CASM planes. Where do MAF/LBB/AMA/MFE travelers need to go such that hubs at DFW/IAH/HOU/DAL can't get them there?


There are some smaller regional destinations in the Mountain West, the Midwest, the Southeast, and the Northeast that are served by DL Connection but not by AA or UA such as ABR, ABY, APN, BJI, BGM, BRD, BQK, BTM, CDC, CSG, GTR, DHN, EKO, ESC, GFK, HIB, INL, IMT, LWS, PLN, PIH, RHI, CIU, TWF, and VLD.

AA and UA also sell connecting itineraries to domestic and international destinations without nonstop or 1-stop connecting service from MAF, LBB, AMA, MFE, and other destinations.

Three main reasons for DL adding service to MAF, LBB, AMA, and MFE include
(a) DL frequent fliers with Medallion status in DL hub or focus city markets who will avoid connecting on AA, UA, or WN whenever possible,
(b) access to smaller regional destinations not served by AA, UA, or WN,
(c) connections to and from international flights operated by DL or its codeshare partners.

AA and its codeshare partner BA can already get passengers to many European destinations from smaller Texas markets not served by DL such as MAF, LBB, AMA, CRP, and MFE with 1 or 2 connections.

AA/JL and UA/NH/CA can already get passengers to many East Asian destinations from smaller Texas markets not served by DL such as MAF, LBB, AMA, CRP, and MFE with 1 or 2 connections.

DL's partner AM already serves CJU, NLD, REX, MAM on the Mexican side of the Texas-Mexico border, and AM can also connect passengers to other destinations in Mexico, Central America, and South America from CJU, NLD, REX, and MAM through MEX.

AA also already serves many markets in Mexico, Central America, and South America nonstop from DFW, and UA and its codeshare partner TA also already serve many markets in Mexico, Central America, and South America nonstop from IAH.

WN also already has nonstop service out of HOU to a few destinations in Mexico and Central America.
 
HanCholo
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:57 am

jplatts wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
Speaking of potential A220 routes, why is ELP only served by ATL in the Delta network? I understand Texas is Delta's weakest point domestically post-DFW hub, but why is there not even a route to SLC? AA manages to pull in 5ish flights to PHX and 3 flights to LAX, and UA offers 4 flights west to Denver. Hell, even AS has a daily to SEA.
Why wouldn't a pair of E170s to SLC work for ELP?


There are hubs other than ATL and SLC that DL could add nonstop service to out of ELP such as LAX, MSP, DTW, JFK, and BOS.

Here are the Q2 2019 PDEW's for ELP to DL hub markets:
ELP-ATL - 89
ELP-BOS - 66
ELP-DTW - 48
ELP-LAX/BUR/LGB/SNA/ONT - 326
ELP-MSP - 37
ELP-NYC - 145
ELP-SLC - 41
ELP-SEA - 108

DL adding ELP-BOS and ELP-JFK nonstop service are possibilities with BOS and JFK being two of the top destinations that aren't currently served nonstop out of ELP on any airline. DL can probably easily fill an A220, A319, A320, or 737 on ELP-JFK due to (a) the amount of O&D demand that exists between ELP and NYC, (b) connections to New England and transatlantic flights that are available at JFK on DL, and (c) the NYC market currently lacking any nonstop service out of ELP.

BOS is clearly too far from ELP to be served nonstop on a regional jet as BOS is 2067 miles east of ELP, but DL might be able to possibly fill an A220-100 on BOS-ELP.

I think that DL adding ELP-JFK nonstop service is more likely than the other DL hubs due to NYC having more demand from the ELP than the other DL hub markets that aren't currently served nonstop from ELP.


BOS/JFK to ELP would be a dream come true. The demand is there. Like you mentioned an A220-100 could probably work. I've heard of slot restrictions at JFK. Would that affect frequency and time or even if new routes can be inaugurated from New York City?
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1548
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:03 pm

More flying from the new focus cities? AUS/CVG/RDU/SJC/BNA?


Still waiting to see something from that big SJC focus city announcement, DL :old:
 
PA12
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:31 am

CJU? I guess you meant CJS, Ciudad Juárez.
 
x1234
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:54 am

I believe in India DL/SkyTeam/VS are focusing on the BIG 3 cities of DEL, BOM & BLR. I just checked and realized India is SO FAR behind China regarding its freeways. China has actual freeways that rival those of the US/EU unlike India. That's why it takes 6-7 hours to drive from Bangalore to Chennai and 9-10 hours from Bangalore to Hyderabad. Flights are so cheap in India too with the LCC. There's also high speed rail in China like Japan/EU.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3404
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:29 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
HVNandrew wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

DL did fly ATL-CRP on the CRJ-200, but I think the route ended about the time when all DL Connection flights that long were upgauged.

Note, too, that MAF, LBB, and AMA are even larger markets in Texas not served by DL.

MFE is also relatively large and no longer has DL service. It's just strange to me that those secondary TX markets can't support 2-3x service to ATL on a CR7. Those must be the largest cities in the US without any DL service?


CR7s are high-CASM planes. Where do MAF/LBB/AMA/MFE travelers need to go such that hubs at DFW/IAH/HOU/DAL can't get them there?


Not to mention that there are very few CR7 left in DCI. By the summer time, it's going to be less than 30 CR7 remaining in the fleet.
From my cold, dead hands
 
flyboy80
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:42 pm

As of now, there are more than a few CR7s appearing out of SLC and SEA in the June schedule. Is this because the Compass flying is drawing down?
 
AZORMP
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:08 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:02 pm

flyboy80 wrote:
As of now, there are more than a few CR7s appearing out of SLC and SEA in the June schedule. Is this because the Compass flying is drawing down?


My understanding is that CP’s DCI flying has already been transferred to OO and YX.
Kalamazoo’s Radio Man

The RJ2 sucks.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:43 pm

AZORMP wrote:
flyboy80 wrote:
As of now, there are more than a few CR7s appearing out of SLC and SEA in the June schedule. Is this because the Compass flying is drawing down?


My understanding is that CP’s DCI flying has already been transferred to OO and YX.

The contract has been announced and the aircraft are being transferred, but you don't move aircraft all at once, its going to be 2-3 a month till their gone. Compass sister company Gojet is in the same spot with their CRJ-700 mostly being replaced by either OO E-175SC or Endeavor CRJ-900SC.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:37 pm

flyboy80 wrote:
As of now, there are more than a few CR7s appearing out of SLC and SEA in the June schedule. Is this because the Compass flying is drawing down?


The June schedules are far from finalized this far out. Check back in March and see what things look like then.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
flyboy80
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:39 pm

I know they aren't finalized, but it's still a preliminary loaded schedule from network planning perspective, and interesting as of now they have the CR7 back in some markets that were, for a good period of time, all EMB. It's even showing SEA-SNA as all CR7 on one day I looked.
 
ethernal
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 12:09 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:12 pm

Thought this was interesting - Delta says they will focus on core hubs this year (presumably meaning growth) per this article:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... s-in-2020/
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1548
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:48 pm

Never mind :D
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:48 pm

ethernal wrote:
Thought this was interesting - Delta says they will focus on core hubs this year (presumably meaning growth) per this article:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... s-in-2020/


It's been discussed some here already - likely a decent amount of the growth in the core hubs will come via upgauging as the M88/M90 are phased out while 321s come in.

However, the way it's worded in the article, it does sound like DL intends to connect some more dots. We've started to see this a bit with recently announced adds like ATL-GEG/BOI and SLC-MEM. I wonder if we'll also see some resumptions of other previously flown routes such as MSP-PVD, DTW-ROA, etc. I wouldn't expect too many net new domestic markets, although I'm sure there will continue to be targeted adds/resumptions along the lines of HHH and SBA last year.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
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