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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:56 am

Most companies are continuing to extend remote work and travel restrictions beyond what they thought would be early September now until the end of the year. Due in part to the continuing spread of the virus but also to help families deal with the start of the school year in what is increasing going to be remote and home learning. Also so many people have left NYC for the time being living with parents, access to family vacation properties, or renting places in more remote places for the summer and now into fall.
 
Lootess
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:14 am

ATL-HND should be able to return, with SEA-AMS back online, they might not be in a rush to re-add LHR.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Most companies are continuing to extend remote work and travel restrictions beyond what they thought would be early September now until the end of the year. Due in part to the continuing spread of the virus but also to help families deal with the start of the school year in what is increasing going to be remote and home learning. Also so many people have left NYC for the time being living with parents, access to family vacation properties, or renting places in more remote places for the summer and now into fall.


Companies are also not going to deal with designation states mandating quarantines from their state, they'll just stay home. Soon enough no one outside of New York will be able to visit that state.
 
panamair
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:28 am

rjbesikof wrote:
What Intl routes is Delta reinstating in August?
I know Atlanta and LAX to HND. Any others?


So far, 1x daily JFK-LHR and 3x weekly JFK-MXP as well.
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:13 am

I find it interesting DL is continuing to fly LAX-SYD, considering QF isn't flying to the US and it's damn near impossible for anyone other than an Australian citizen to get into OZ right now.
 
panamair
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:24 am

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
I find it interesting DL is continuing to fly LAX-SYD, considering QF isn't flying to the US and it's damn near impossible for anyone other than an Australian citizen to get into OZ right now.


It's primarily for the cargo; pre-crisis, the flight was already a good cargo performer anyway.
 
DeltaMD95
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:47 pm

Has the 763ER ORD-DTW tag-on (for cargo purposes) as part of DTW-LHR (if I’m not mistaken), already been discontinued? I was looking to book this rare short haul domestic widebody, but can no longer seem to find it in the schedule.
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
MrPeanut
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:09 am

jplatts wrote:
kavok wrote:
Interesting.
Network wise DL has been pretty quiet as of late, and is letting AA make all of the big moves. Though this is a sharp observation in regards to DAL, and arguably is a low hanging fruit opportunity with minimal risk and potentially high return for DL. If nothing else, it probably could help their lawsuit case if they are being denied gate usage to unused gates.


There is a market for LGA-DAL nonstop service on DL, even with WN already serving DAL nonstop from LGA, with there being some business travel between NYC and Downtown Dallas due to companies in the banking, accounting, and auditing industries with offices in both Manhattan and Downtown Dallas such as Chase Bank, Bank of America, KPMG, PWC, Deloitte, and Ernst & Young.

LGA can also likely support nonstop service to DAL on more than just WN with VX and AS having previously served DAL nonstop from LGA. DL is also more likely to be successful on LGA-DAL than AS was due to DL having a much bigger FF base in the NYC market.

There is also a market for DTW-DAL nonstop service on DL, even with WN having plans to resume DTW-DAL nonstop service, due to some business travel between Greater Detroit and Downtown Dallas with Comerica Bank having its headquarters in Downtown Dallas, with Comerica Bank having its former headquarters in Detroit, and with Comerica Bank still having many branches in the Detroit area.

There are also some business travelers in both the Detroit and NYC markets who would choose to fly into DAL instead of DFW if DL adds DAL-DTW/LGA nonstop service with DAL being closer to Downtown Dallas than DFW is.


If DL decides on Dallas / NYC, I can't help but think DFW is the better option than DAL. Average fares out of DFW are about $100 higher than DAL.

Network wise, however, AA has to be the one to make the moves right now. I don't think many people realize how bad half of AA's hubs perform relative to their competitor's hubs. Its actually quite eye opening when you look at the data available. Part of AA's problem is that they have 10 hubs and never rationalized after the merger with US. Therefore, instead of focusing on strengthening 7 or 8 key hubs, they spread their resources over 10 hubs resulting in 5ish marginal hubs.
 
AZORMP
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:11 am

DeltaMD95 wrote:
Has the 763ER ORD-DTW tag-on (for cargo purposes) as part of DTW-LHR (if I’m not mistaken), already been discontinued? I was looking to book this rare short haul domestic widebody, but can no longer seem to find it in the schedule.


Attached is the Delta Cargo Widebody schedule for August.
 
goboeing
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:16 pm

AZORMP wrote:
DeltaMD95 wrote:
Has the 763ER ORD-DTW tag-on (for cargo purposes) as part of DTW-LHR (if I’m not mistaken), already been discontinued? I was looking to book this rare short haul domestic widebody, but can no longer seem to find it in the schedule.


Attached is the Delta Cargo Widebody schedule for August.


Not seeing it, can you try posting again?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:20 pm

goboeing wrote:
AZORMP wrote:
DeltaMD95 wrote:
Has the 763ER ORD-DTW tag-on (for cargo purposes) as part of DTW-LHR (if I’m not mistaken), already been discontinued? I was looking to book this rare short haul domestic widebody, but can no longer seem to find it in the schedule.


Attached is the Delta Cargo Widebody schedule for August.


Not seeing it, can you try posting again?


Here https://www.deltacargo.com/content/dam/ ... ?from=home
 
jplatts
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:50 pm

MrPeanut wrote:
If DL decides on Dallas / NYC, I can't help but think DFW is the better option than DAL. Average fares out of DFW are about $100 higher than DAL.


DL was actually wanting to add 8 additional flights out of DAL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic if it gained access to additional gates at DAL, and there is room at DAL to accommodate additional DL flights with the cuts that WN has made at DAL due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

While DL already serves DFW nonstop from LGA, I had mentioned DL adding LGA-DAL nonstop service as a possibility due to
(a) Downtown Dallas being a major business destination for companies in the banking, finance, auditing, and accounting industries that have offices in both Manhattan and Downtown Dallas such as Chase Bank, Deloitte, Ernst & Young, KPMG, and PWC,
(b) DAL being closer to Downtown Dallas than DFW, and
(c) DL wanting to add more flights out of DAL if there was enough room.

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors of VX/AS DAL-LGA in 2016, 2017, and 2018:
VX DAL-LGA in 2016: 245138 passengers, 301556 seats, 81.29% load factor
VX/AS DAL-LGA in 2017: 181074 passengers, 215140 seats, 84.17% load factor
AS DAL-LGA in 2018: 132772 passengers, 156940 seats, 84.60% load factor

DL can probably do better on LGA-DAL nonstop service than VX or AS did once demand and fares return to normal levels with DL having a much bigger customer base in the NYC market than AS does. There are also some DL FF's in the NYC market who would choose to fly into DAL instead of DFW if DL adds LGA-DAL nonstop service with DAL being closer to Downtown Dallas.
 
gsg013
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:03 pm

jplatts wrote:
MrPeanut wrote:
If DL decides on Dallas / NYC, I can't help but think DFW is the better option than DAL. Average fares out of DFW are about $100 higher than DAL.


DL was actually wanting to add 8 additional flights out of DAL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic if it gained access to additional gates at DAL, and there is room at DAL to accommodate additional DL flights with the cuts that WN has made at DAL due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

While DL already serves DFW nonstop from LGA, I had mentioned DL adding LGA-DAL nonstop service as a possibility due to
(a) Downtown Dallas being a major business destination for companies in the banking, finance, auditing, and accounting industries that have offices in both Manhattan and Downtown Dallas such as Chase Bank, Deloitte, Ernst & Young, KPMG, and PWC,
(b) DAL being closer to Downtown Dallas than DFW, and
(c) DL wanting to add more flights out of DAL if there was enough room.

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors of VX/AS DAL-LGA in 2016, 2017, and 2018:
VX DAL-LGA in 2016: 245138 passengers, 301556 seats, 81.29% load factor
VX/AS DAL-LGA in 2017: 181074 passengers, 215140 seats, 84.17% load factor
AS DAL-LGA in 2018: 132772 passengers, 156940 seats, 84.60% load factor

DL can probably do better on LGA-DAL nonstop service than VX or AS did once demand and fares return to normal levels with DL having a much bigger customer base in the NYC market than AS does. There are also some DL FF's in the NYC market who would choose to fly into DAL instead of DFW if DL adds LGA-DAL nonstop service with DAL being closer to Downtown Dallas.


Back when VX was on the LGA-DAL route I would often chose to fly into love field over LGA-DFW. DAL is so much more convenient than DFW. I would only chose DFW if the fare was significantly lower. (I'm talking more that $150-200 RT difference). I am a loyal DL Platinum Medallion and usually chose DL. I could see post pandemic LGA-DAL on DL working out pretty well.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:48 pm

Looks like DL extended some more suspensions this weekend though Christmas:

SEA-IND/TPA/MCI
RDU-AUS/BNA/CLE/IND/PIT/CMH
CVG-STL/IAH/BDL/MCI (CVG-YYZ looks completely gone after December)
BOS-MEM/ORF/BUF/PBI/MIA
SLC-CMH/CLE/MSN
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
tjerome
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:33 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Looks like DL extended some more suspensions this weekend though Christmas:

SEA-IND/TPA/MCI
RDU-AUS/BNA/CLE/IND/PIT/CMH
CVG-STL/IAH/BDL/MCI (CVG-YYZ looks completely gone after December)
BOS-MEM/ORF/BUF/PBI/MIA
SLC-CMH/CLE/MSN


Not surprising on some of those. BOS-MEM was scheduled to start in October I believe, and DL will still serve BOS-FLL looks like so that should suffice in place of PBI/MIA.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:05 pm

MSNSLC is a little surprising to me. It's a route driven by business traffic, which obviously hasn't rebounded. But it's also the fastest way to the Mountain West, which is doing (relatively) better than other regions. Hopefully, it comes back in 2021...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:09 pm

Has anybody heard about Delta dropping Düsseldorf? They closed ATL-DUS and ATL-STR for the whole Winter, while ATL-STR is bookable again from summer ATL-DUS isnt.
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x1234
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:40 pm

They should fly DTW-DUS instead like NW did with the B752. DUS is a automotive city and has lots of ties to Detroit.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:50 pm

"Dropping" a market is all relative in this low-tide demand environment. Nothing is every permenant either way in this industry.
I imagine there are a number of routes they have already determined they will not operate in Summer 2021 that they've cancelled inventory. Doesn't mean it may not be back in Summer 2022 or beyond, it just means what it does at this point.

DL isn't going to be flying TATL 752s like that. That traffic won't be there for DTW-DUS next summer anyways.
Plus the people in auto I knew that needed go to DUS or Colonge region from DTW would just fly to AMS, take an extra day/night there and take the train into Germany.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:30 pm

x1234 wrote:
They should fly DTW-DUS instead like NW did with the B752. DUS is a automotive city and has lots of ties to Detroit.


Well when NWA flew DTW-DUS with the 757 they failed. Loads were catastrophic and 2008 brought a quick end of that flight.
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MAH4546
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:10 am

x1234 wrote:
They should fly DTW-DUS instead like NW did with the B752. DUS is a automotive city and has lots of ties to Detroit.


DUS is not an automotive city nor does it have ties to Detroit.
a.
 
panamair
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:57 am

DLHAM wrote:
Has anybody heard about Delta dropping Düsseldorf? They closed ATL-DUS and ATL-STR for the whole Winter, while ATL-STR is bookable again from summer ATL-DUS isnt.


Yes, they are closing the DUS station. Also closing in Europe are SNN, GLA, PRG and CPH.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:09 am

panamair wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
Has anybody heard about Delta dropping Düsseldorf? They closed ATL-DUS and ATL-STR for the whole Winter, while ATL-STR is bookable again from summer ATL-DUS isnt.


Yes, they are closing the DUS station. Also closing in Europe are SNN, GLA, PRG and CPH.


Wow thats a pity! The DUS flight was perfect for nonrev in Business but that obviously says it all. I would have thought that they also cut Berlin. Were Glasgow, Prague seasonal flights? Copenhagen was seasonal AFAIK. What about Shannon?
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panamair
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:19 am

DLHAM wrote:
panamair wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
Has anybody heard about Delta dropping Düsseldorf? They closed ATL-DUS and ATL-STR for the whole Winter, while ATL-STR is bookable again from summer ATL-DUS isnt.


Yes, they are closing the DUS station. Also closing in Europe are SNN, GLA, PRG and CPH.


Wow thats a pity! The DUS flight was perfect for nonrev in Business but that obviously says it all. I would have thought that they also cut Berlin. Were Glasgow, Prague seasonal flights? Copenhagen was seasonal AFAIK. What about Shannon?


They were all seasonal; DUS was the only year-round.

So far, for 2021 they plan on keeping:

Traditional year-round destinations: LHR, DUB, AMS, CDG, BRU, FRA, MUC, ZRH, MXP, FCO, MAD, BCN, LIS (was year-round but made seasonal this coming winter), EDI (was year-round but made seasonal this coming winter) and STR (was year-round but made seasonal this coming winter)

Traditional seasonal destinations currently planned for a S21 return: ATH, NCE, VCE, BER and KEF
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:43 am

Instead of saying they are closing the station, it is more appropriate to say that there will not be any nonstop flights from the US operated by DL next summer. These cities will still be easily accessible over AMS and CDG in Skyteam.

It’s very possible they could return down the road in better yeasts ahead.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:02 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
It’s very possible they could return down the road in better yeasts ahead.


May or may not ... Past crises showed that of course the number of flights/routes started to increase again and airlines switched back to an "expansion mode" over the atlantic at some point. But the cards are being reshuffled and except a few routes airlines did not just restarted the routes they canceled a few years earlier. Some never came back, other came new that were never there before or not in decades. What I mean: one or some of these flights may never come back short/midterm.
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jb1087xna
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:57 am

Any ideas what is bringing a DL 763 to XNA tomorrow? Looks like it started a charter rotation of ATL-GLA-DTW-XNA-ATL yesterday.
 
gdavis003
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:21 am

jb1087xna wrote:
Any ideas what is bringing a DL 763 to XNA tomorrow? Looks like it started a charter rotation of ATL-GLA-DTW-XNA-ATL yesterday.


Call sign beginning with an 88 tends to be military charter. I would assume this is a charter for Fort Smith
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:16 pm

Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:11 pm

panamair wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
panamair wrote:

Yes, they are closing the DUS station. Also closing in Europe are SNN, GLA, PRG and CPH.


Wow thats a pity! The DUS flight was perfect for nonrev in Business but that obviously says it all. I would have thought that they also cut Berlin. Were Glasgow, Prague seasonal flights? Copenhagen was seasonal AFAIK. What about Shannon?


They were all seasonal; DUS was the only year-round.

So far, for 2021 they plan on keeping:

Traditional year-round destinations: LHR, DUB, AMS, CDG, BRU, FRA, MUC, ZRH, MXP, FCO, MAD, BCN, LIS (was year-round but made seasonal this coming winter), EDI (was year-round but made seasonal this coming winter) and STR (was year-round but made seasonal this coming winter)

Traditional seasonal destinations currently planned for a S21 return: ATH, NCE, VCE, BER and KEF


I thought BER was getting dropped as well...
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panamair
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:17 pm

FSDan wrote:
panamair wrote:
DLHAM wrote:

Wow thats a pity! The DUS flight was perfect for nonrev in Business but that obviously says it all. I would have thought that they also cut Berlin. Were Glasgow, Prague seasonal flights? Copenhagen was seasonal AFAIK. What about Shannon?


They were all seasonal; DUS was the only year-round.

So far, for 2021 they plan on keeping:

Traditional year-round destinations: LHR, DUB, AMS, CDG, BRU, FRA, MUC, ZRH, MXP, FCO, MAD, BCN, LIS (was year-round but made seasonal this coming winter), EDI (was year-round but made seasonal this coming winter) and STR (was year-round but made seasonal this coming winter)

Traditional seasonal destinations currently planned for a S21 return: ATH, NCE, VCE, BER and KEF


I thought BER was getting dropped as well...


It is..but it was still bookable when I made that earlier post. BER was pulled just sometime late last week
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:31 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/delta-air-lines-to-fly-ontario-california-to-seattle-301116713.html

ONT-SEA starts October 1st


Wow this is out of Left field.
This should also give LGB hope DL will use all of its 12 slots.
Maybe they see some demand returning in the SoCal area.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
by738
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:34 pm

jb1087xna wrote:
Any ideas what is bringing a DL 763 to XNA tomorrow? Looks like it started a charter rotation of ATL-GLA-DTW-XNA-ATL yesterday.


Was golf charter
 
klm617
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:58 am

DLHAM wrote:
x1234 wrote:
They should fly DTW-DUS instead like NW did with the B752. DUS is a automotive city and has lots of ties to Detroit.


Well when NWA flew DTW-DUS with the 757 they failed. Loads were catastrophic and 2008 brought a quick end of that flight.


Is there data to back that up. DTW-DUS operated for over 2 years and it was the economic down turn when this flight ended and pretty much the end of 757 TATL flights at DTW.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:04 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
"Dropping" a market is all relative in this low-tide demand environment. Nothing is every permenant either way in this industry.
I imagine there are a number of routes they have already determined they will not operate in Summer 2021 that they've cancelled inventory. Doesn't mean it may not be back in Summer 2022 or beyond, it just means what it does at this point.

DL isn't going to be flying TATL 752s like that. That traffic won't be there for DTW-DUS next summer anyways.
Plus the people in auto I knew that needed go to DUS or Colonge region from DTW would just fly to AMS, take an extra day/night there and take the train into Germany.


That might be true but give them a Nonstop option and they might chose that, They can't fly a route that's not available. Look at DTW-KEF most people were driving to YYZ or ORD and then when DTW had a nonstop option it went from 55th place to 5th place as far as international traffic out of Detroit some months growing 1500% in capacity so until a route is started we never know how successful or used it might be we can only speculate. But I agree with you Delta is not going to use a 757 that way but you can't discount potential before it's attempted.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:42 pm

Delta seems to have made a big bet against skiing this winter.

Atlanta-Aspen gone
Atlanta-Steamboat gone
Atlanta-Telluride gone
Los Angeles-Aspen gone
Minneapolis-Jackson Hole gone
Minneapolis-Steamboat gone
New York-Jackson Hole gone
Salt Lake-Vail gone
Seattle-Jackson Hole gone
Los Angeles-Sun Valley gone after Christmas
Los Angeles-Jackson Hole gone after Christmas

Meanwhile United, American, Alaska, Southwest and JetBlue are adding service to JAC, HDN, etc.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:43 pm

klm617 wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
x1234 wrote:
They should fly DTW-DUS instead like NW did with the B752. DUS is a automotive city and has lots of ties to Detroit.


Well when NWA flew DTW-DUS with the 757 they failed. Loads were catastrophic and 2008 brought a quick end of that flight.


Is there data to back that up. DTW-DUS operated for over 2 years and it was the economic down turn when this flight ended and pretty much the end of 757 TATL flights at DTW.


The German Federal Office of Statistics has numbers. In 2007 - the only year the flight operated all-year - there were 121 passengers on average in the 757. I know that loadfactor alone is no 100% certain indicator but I am sure that these were not only or mainly high-yielding passengers.
In the wintermonths the load factor would drop to just over 90 passengers per flight, and thats defnitiely catastrophic. That it also what I heard about that flight back then, that it was "not the best performer".

I could imagine that with todays traffic which is much higher than in 2008 (Corona aside) a seasonal flight on a 757/A321 could work DTW-DUS.
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klm617
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:53 pm

DLHAM wrote:
klm617 wrote:
DLHAM wrote:

Well when NWA flew DTW-DUS with the 757 they failed. Loads were catastrophic and 2008 brought a quick end of that flight.


Is there data to back that up. DTW-DUS operated for over 2 years and it was the economic down turn when this flight ended and pretty much the end of 757 TATL flights at DTW.


The German Federal Office of Statistics has numbers. In 2007 - the only year the flight operated all-year - there were 121 passengers on average in the 757. I know that loadfactor alone is no 100% certain indicator but I am sure that these were not only or mainly high-yielding passengers.
In the wintermonths the load factor would drop to just over 90 passengers per flight, and thats defnitiely catastrophic. That it also what I heard about that flight back then, that it was "not the best performer".

I could imagine that with todays traffic which is much higher than in 2008 (Corona aside) a seasonal flight on a 757/A321 could work DTW-DUS.


An average of a 121 passengers a day is not to shabby considering the low winter months are included. If it was summer seasonal it would do pretty well given the numbers you stated.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:11 pm

klm617 wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Is there data to back that up. DTW-DUS operated for over 2 years and it was the economic down turn when this flight ended and pretty much the end of 757 TATL flights at DTW.


The German Federal Office of Statistics has numbers. In 2007 - the only year the flight operated all-year - there were 121 passengers on average in the 757. I know that loadfactor alone is no 100% certain indicator but I am sure that these were not only or mainly high-yielding passengers.
In the wintermonths the load factor would drop to just over 90 passengers per flight, and thats defnitiely catastrophic. That it also what I heard about that flight back then, that it was "not the best performer".

I could imagine that with todays traffic which is much higher than in 2008 (Corona aside) a seasonal flight on a 757/A321 could work DTW-DUS.


An average of a 121 passengers a day is not to shabby considering the low winter months are included. If it was summer seasonal it would do pretty well given the numbers you stated.


121 is shabby, thats just 3/4 in NWAs spacious configuration. In August 2007 for example it was just 115 on average, August, the best month of the year normally.
In comparison other Germany - USA 757 flights in August 2007:

HAM-EWR 145 pax 88% LF
TXL-EWR 138 pax 84% LF

And regarding this summer seasonal: thats just what I said ...
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WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1497
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:19 pm

Delta is adding direct, daily service between MEM/IND on an Embraer 76 seater.
 
Lootess
Posts: 444
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:34 pm

DTW-DUS kind of ran on fumes during the end of the DaimlerChrysler days. After the divesture of Chrysler they basically didn't have a Detroit presence anymore. It's been a better route in ATL which has Mercedes HQ and closer to the CHS factory, when they converted to a full-assembly plant.
 
klm617
Posts: 4996
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:55 pm

Lootess wrote:
DTW-DUS kind of ran on fumes during the end of the DaimlerChrysler days. After the divesture of Chrysler they basically didn't have a Detroit presence anymore. It's been a better route in ATL which has Mercedes HQ and closer to the CHS factory, when they converted to a full-assembly plant.


I would think that that had little to do with it since the Diamler Headquarters in is Stuttgart not Dusseldorf.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
MAH4546
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:17 pm

Can’t believe people still arguing about DTWDUS. The market is absolutely non-existent. Less than 3 PDEW.
a.
 
klm617
Posts: 4996
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:45 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Can’t believe people still arguing about DTWDUS. The market is absolutely non-existent. Less than 3 PDEW.


Per the comment up thread when there was a link there was an average of 121 PDEW using the flight. Being there are other options as others have stated most of those passengers are using FRA and AMS and using the train to get to DUS.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26212
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:56 pm

klm617 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Can’t believe people still arguing about DTWDUS. The market is absolutely non-existent. Less than 3 PDEW.


Per the comment up thread when there was a link there was an average of 121 PDEW using the flight. Being there are other options as others have stated most of those passengers are using FRA and AMS and using the train to get to DUS.


No absolutely not. The market was never that large. The comments said that there was an average of 121 people per flight. Which is a pathetic average load factor. PDEW is local passengers. There are many days when there are ZERO local passengers between Detroit and Düsseldorf. There is NO market.
a.
 
Lootess
Posts: 444
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:01 am

klm617 wrote:
Lootess wrote:
DTW-DUS kind of ran on fumes during the end of the DaimlerChrysler days. After the divesture of Chrysler they basically didn't have a Detroit presence anymore. It's been a better route in ATL which has Mercedes HQ and closer to the CHS factory, when they converted to a full-assembly plant.


I would think that that had little to do with it since the Diamler Headquarters in is Stuttgart not Dusseldorf.


Dusseldorf has the Mercedes Sprinter factory, one of the largest in the Daimler network. The US Sprinter factory is in Charleston.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2816
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:08 am

Delta will resume Boston to St. Thomas this December with a 1x weekly 757.

Delta hasn’t flown this route since August 2017.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -dec-2020/
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:30 pm

Thought this was interesting, comparing DL to UA. DL has a much more diverse set of SkyMiles members, especially a much more diverse geographic base:

Image
Image
http://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CI ... 4333c1.pdf
https://ir.united.com/static-files/1c0f ... 975348bab9
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1699
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:24 pm

Does anyone know when JFK-BCN will be resuming? It was scheduled to resume a few days ago, but keeps showing up as cancelled. JFK-FCO, MAD, and ACCC started, as planned.
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MIflyer12
Posts: 8017
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:32 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Thought this was interesting, comparing DL to UA. DL has a much more diverse set of SkyMiles members, especially a much more diverse geographic base:


IMHO, much the bigger news in that 8-K filing today:

1. DL 'does not intend' to participate in the CARES Act loan program

2. It's borrowing $6.5 Billion secured by the SkyMiles program
 
panamair
Posts: 4324
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:38 pm

flyguy1 wrote:
Does anyone know when JFK-BCN will be resuming? It was scheduled to resume a few days ago, but keeps showing up as cancelled. JFK-FCO, MAD, and ACCC started, as planned.


BCN restart looks like it’s been pushed back to Oct 1.
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