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kavok
Posts: 846
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: DL adds FAT-LAX

Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:57 am

ibthebigd wrote:
Would FAT-MSP on Delta be a possibility?

I still think Southwest will start FAT eventually to atleast LAS PHX and DEN.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I would guess that both SEA and ATL would get DL flights first, before DL would consider starting MSP-FAT... so probably not.
 
AABB777
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Re: DL adds FAT-LAX

Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:05 am

flyfresno wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:
WN732 wrote:

There is no TSA, it's more like an FBO than a terminal. Grand Canyon also uses Twin Otters, and their ramp space is extremely small compared to what's needed for even an E175. There would need to be some large changes made to that airport to handle passenger services.


I was tying in GCN with PSP as a viable summer substitute when PSP pax volumes drop off the map. Because FAT serves Yosemite I was just thinking of another popular National Park that could be served with surplus aircraft. Honestly, I thought there would be environmental issues for an upgrade to commercial use but how long does it take to get TSA installed?


I think the main differences are FAT has an MSA over a million, a catchment area much larger than that (especially for DL, who's closest other stations are SMF/SJC/OAK/BUR/SBA), and established service on DL.


Delta ended SBA-SLC in July. Would be great if it was restarted.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:05 am

jplatts wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
They can always add routes, but the question is whether they make sense. If there was a route that made sense to add, Delta would add it. Very few of the routes you mentioned would make any sense.


SLC-BUF, SLC-ROC, SLC-BDL, and SLC-RIC are 4 of the top domestic routes not currently served from SLC, and here are the Q3 2019 PDEW's of these 4 routes:
SLC-BUF - 66
SLC-ROC - 60
SLC-BDL - 55
SLC-RIC - 55

DL can probably make SLC-BUF/ROC/BDL/RIC nonstop service work using Airbus A220-100 planes, and DL would also have some connecting traffic in addition to O&D on SLC-BUF/ROC/BDL/RIC if it adds nonstop service to BUF, ROC, BDL, or RIC from SLC.

While DL already serves DFW in the DFW/DAL market nonstop from SLC, DL had previously stated that it wanted to add some more flights out of DAL (Dallas Love Field), and DL adding SLC-DAL nonstop service might make sense as such an add would provide access to SLC and destinations further west from DAL on DL.


DAL-DTW would come before SLC. I even think it was announced and then when Delta didn't get enough DAL slots it was never started DTW from DAL.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
MAH4546
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:30 am

MIA-SLC and ATL-GEG/RNO/BOI aren’t new adds. They were supposed to launch (although actually I think all except Spokane are relaunches?) on July 2nd.
a.
 
flyfresno
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Re: DL adds FAT-LAX

Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:44 am

kavok wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
Would FAT-MSP on Delta be a possibility?

I still think Southwest will start FAT eventually to atleast LAS PHX and DEN.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I would guess that both SEA and ATL would get DL flights first, before DL would consider starting MSP-FAT... so probably not.


MSP, however, has one of the highest PDEW of any city not already served non-stop (Washington and New York are also in the top-3), posting numbers rivaling SLC for PDEW.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:48 pm

https://skift.com/2020/09/22/delta-ceos ... r-journey/

"Delta Air Lines is expecting a “two-year journey” before its operation resembles its pre-pandemic structure"

"Delta is operating about half its originally planned domestic schedule, Bastian said, and carrying 30-35 percent of its normal passenger volume. International demand is worse, because many countries have closed borders to Americans."

"Bastian said, though airlines could further cut schedules if the U.S. government does not extend state aid past Oct. 1, when it is slated to run out."

“We are starting to see business travelers come back,” he said. “Of our big corporates that we measure, about 80 percent of them do have people traveling. Though they may be small numbers, people are starting to put the toe back in the water.”
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
DLATL
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:36 pm

klm617 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Agreed. With as popular (and awesome) the Flagstaff / Sedona area is, I'm surprised that DL isn't already operating SLC-FLG.
Would there be elevation/runway length/performance issues with CR9s with an 8,800 ft runway at 7,000 ft?

Its a Skywest station with all OO CR7 service on AA & UA in there as it is now.


If Delta felt there was a market there they'd be serving it already. Seems to be pretty well covered with UA and AA serving the market

The same can be said about all the routes you suggest from DTW
 
DLATL
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:38 pm

klm617 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
They can always add routes, but the question is whether they make sense. If there was a route that made sense to add, Delta would add it. Very few of the routes you mentioned would make any sense.


SLC-BUF, SLC-ROC, SLC-BDL, and SLC-RIC are 4 of the top domestic routes not currently served from SLC, and here are the Q3 2019 PDEW's of these 4 routes:
SLC-BUF - 66
SLC-ROC - 60
SLC-BDL - 55
SLC-RIC - 55

DL can probably make SLC-BUF/ROC/BDL/RIC nonstop service work using Airbus A220-100 planes, and DL would also have some connecting traffic in addition to O&D on SLC-BUF/ROC/BDL/RIC if it adds nonstop service to BUF, ROC, BDL, or RIC from SLC.

While DL already serves DFW in the DFW/DAL market nonstop from SLC, DL had previously stated that it wanted to add some more flights out of DAL (Dallas Love Field), and DL adding SLC-DAL nonstop service might make sense as such an add would provide access to SLC and destinations further west from DAL on DL.


DAL-DTW would come before SLC. I even think it was announced and then when Delta didn't get enough DAL slots it was never started DTW from DAL.

DTW, MSP, and SLC were announced when they were expecting to get slots.
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:03 pm

 
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klm617
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:40 pm

DLATL wrote:
klm617 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

SLC-BUF, SLC-ROC, SLC-BDL, and SLC-RIC are 4 of the top domestic routes not currently served from SLC, and here are the Q3 2019 PDEW's of these 4 routes:
SLC-BUF - 66
SLC-ROC - 60
SLC-BDL - 55
SLC-RIC - 55

DL can probably make SLC-BUF/ROC/BDL/RIC nonstop service work using Airbus A220-100 planes, and DL would also have some connecting traffic in addition to O&D on SLC-BUF/ROC/BDL/RIC if it adds nonstop service to BUF, ROC, BDL, or RIC from SLC.

While DL already serves DFW in the DFW/DAL market nonstop from SLC, DL had previously stated that it wanted to add some more flights out of DAL (Dallas Love Field), and DL adding SLC-DAL nonstop service might make sense as such an add would provide access to SLC and destinations further west from DAL on DL.


DAL-DTW would come before SLC. I even think it was announced and then when Delta didn't get enough DAL slots it was never started DTW from DAL.

DTW, MSP, and SLC were announced when they were expecting to get slots.



No SLC in this press release from 2014

Delta's planned expansion will enhance competition at the airport with new nonstop service to New York-LaGuardia, Los Angeles, Detroit, and Minneapolis-St. Paul. Delta also will add two daily flights to its existing Atlanta service.

https://news.delta.com/delta-plans-expa ... love-field
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:41 pm

DLATL wrote:
klm617 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Agreed. With as popular (and awesome) the Flagstaff / Sedona area is, I'm surprised that DL isn't already operating SLC-FLG.
Would there be elevation/runway length/performance issues with CR9s with an 8,800 ft runway at 7,000 ft?

Its a Skywest station with all OO CR7 service on AA & UA in there as it is now.


If Delta felt there was a market there they'd be serving it already. Seems to be pretty well covered with UA and AA serving the market

The same can be said about all the routes you suggest from DTW


Very true so why don't we just support each other and this forum could be a so much better place.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
jfern022
Posts: 183
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:56 pm

klm617 wrote:
DLATL wrote:
klm617 wrote:

If Delta felt there was a market there they'd be serving it already. Seems to be pretty well covered with UA and AA serving the market

The same can be said about all the routes you suggest from DTW


Very true so why don't we just support each other and this forum could be a so much better place.


Agreed! You can lead by example and start making some quality posts about DL or whatever you would like.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:04 am

Midwestindy wrote:
“We are starting to see business travelers come back,” he said. “Of our big corporates that we measure, about 80 percent of them do have people traveling. Though they may be small numbers, people are starting to put the toe back in the water.”


That's great to hear, even if it's only a small positive signal.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
gsg013
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:15 pm

There has been a lot of talk about airlines going point-to-point during the winter 2020 and spring 2021, has DL announced anything outside their normal hubs? I would think some p2p routes to sun-destinations would be very popular and bring in some revenue? On the other side is there any talk of DL upguaging some existing leisure destinations for the winter?

Say sending 767s from LGA or JFK to Florida or Arizona?

I am biased being in Nashville but I would love to see a few Florida destinations added for the winter from BNA. (PBI, FLL, MIA, EYW)
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:16 pm

Very nice to see this pretty positive adds by Delta in the Detroit market. We may have lost ORH but I think we all knew that that wasn't going to last just like DTW-HNL.

DL BMI-DTW OCT 0>0.5[0] NOV 0>0.7[0] DEC 0>0.7[0] JAN 0>0.7[0] FEB 0>0.7[0] MAR 0>0.7[0] APR 0>0.7[0] MAY 0>0.7[0] JUN 0>0.7[0]
DL CUN-DTW JAN 2>3[3] FEB 2>3[3] MAR 2>3[2]
DL DTW-FWA NOV 1.7>3[3]
DL DTW-MYR NOV 0>0.8[0.9] DEC 0>1.0[0] JAN 0>1.0[0] FEB 0>1.0[0] MAR 0>0.9[0.5] APR 0>1.0[1.1] JUN 0>1.0[0]
DL DTW-SJD JAN 0.5>1.0[0.3] FEB 0.4>1.0[0.5] APR 0.4>1.0[0.9]
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
kavok
Posts: 846
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:26 pm

klm617 wrote:
Very nice to see this pretty positive adds by Delta in the Detroit market. We may have lost ORH but I think we all knew that that wasn't going to last just like DTW-HNL.

DL BMI-DTW OCT 0>0.5[0] NOV 0>0.7[0] DEC 0>0.7[0] JAN 0>0.7[0] FEB 0>0.7[0] MAR 0>0.7[0] APR 0>0.7[0] MAY 0>0.7[0] JUN 0>0.7[0]
DL CUN-DTW JAN 2>3[3] FEB 2>3[3] MAR 2>3[2]
DL DTW-FWA NOV 1.7>3[3]
DL DTW-MYR NOV 0>0.8[0.9] DEC 0>1.0[0] JAN 0>1.0[0] FEB 0>1.0[0] MAR 0>0.9[0.5] APR 0>1.0[1.1] JUN 0>1.0[0]
DL DTW-SJD JAN 0.5>1.0[0.3] FEB 0.4>1.0[0.5] APR 0.4>1.0[0.9]


DTW-HNL isn’t fully gone yet (still on the December 2020 schedule for two weeks around Christmas time).

That being said, I imagine maany of DL’s HNL frequencies this winter will be dependent on how much access the State of Hawaii allows vs. quarantines. If some amount of leisure access is allowed this winter, there may even be a slight uptick in Hawaii flying, as leisure flyers will be looking for somewhere warm to go.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:35 pm

gsg013 wrote:
There has been a lot of talk about airlines going point-to-point during the winter 2020 and spring 2021, has DL announced anything outside their normal hubs? I would think some p2p routes to sun-destinations would be very popular and bring in some revenue? On the other side is there any talk of DL upguaging some existing leisure destinations for the winter?

Say sending 767s from LGA or JFK to Florida or Arizona?

I am biased being in Nashville but I would love to see a few Florida destinations added for the winter from BNA. (PBI, FLL, MIA, EYW)


Only p2p I've seen is IND-MEM

We'll likely see in the next week or two, but for now DL may have missed out given so many carriers have added capacity to "sun" destinations already
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:05 pm

gsg013 wrote:
There has been a lot of talk about airlines going point-to-point during the winter 2020 and spring 2021, has DL announced anything outside their normal hubs? I would think some p2p routes to sun-destinations would be very popular and bring in some revenue?


Given that DL has already been doing this for years (particularly P2P to CUN and MCO), I wouldn't be surprised to see them continue on that path. However, so far since the pandemic started DL has leaned more on the side of retrenching to hubs than growing their P2P network.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:06 pm

FSDan wrote:
gsg013 wrote:
There has been a lot of talk about airlines going point-to-point during the winter 2020 and spring 2021, has DL announced anything outside their normal hubs? I would think some p2p routes to sun-destinations would be very popular and bring in some revenue?


Given that DL has already been doing this for years (particularly P2P to CUN and MCO), I wouldn't be surprised to see them continue on that path. However, so far since the pandemic started DL has leaned more on the side of retrenching to hubs than growing their P2P network.



It can be looked upon as being all relative: Delta's excess capacity were the P2P's so that was taken out. Other airlines' excess capacity were hub-focused. Now airlines are deciding to either attack Delta's P2P advantage or simply deploy assets where demand is/will be. Probably both.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:36 pm

Probably has implications for its network:

"Delta has decided to retire the company’s Boeing 717-200 aircraft and the remainder of its 767-300ER aircraft by December 2025 and its CRJ-200 aircraft byDecember 2023, earlier than previously scheduled. These plans are another step in Delta’s fleet simplification strategy, which is intended to streamline and modernize Delta’s fleet, enhance the customer experience, and generate cost savings"
https://ir.delta.com/financials/sec-fil ... d=14409556
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:57 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Probably has implications for its network:

"Delta has decided to retire the company’s Boeing 717-200 aircraft and the remainder of its 767-300ER aircraft by December 2025 and its CRJ-200 aircraft byDecember 2023, earlier than previously scheduled. These plans are another step in Delta’s fleet simplification strategy, which is intended to streamline and modernize Delta’s fleet, enhance the customer experience, and generate cost savings"
https://ir.delta.com/financials/sec-fil ... d=14409556

When were they anticipated to go? That seems right around when they were both expected to leave.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
TonyClifton
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:10 pm

Well, people will be happy with no 50 seaters to avoid.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:11 pm

This is the first time any dates have been officially communicated, ever.

2025 for B763 isn’t that unrealistic even pre Covid based on the age of the fleet and the A339 deliveries.

B717 is interesting since on one hand they could have in theory been in the fleet to 2030 but no ever speculated they would make it that long. Rumors and speculation thought 2025 or even as soon as 2021 or 2022 based on the pending AD and 220 orders.

No timeframe has ever been said for CR2 but not unreasonable either.
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:55 pm

I'm surprised 717 is sticking around for that long even.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:28 pm

Satan's Chariot gone by the end of 2023? Not soon enough, but giddyup!

It will be interesting to see which cities that received only 50-seater service will be left behind by DL.
 
kavok
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:01 am

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Satan's Chariot gone by the end of 2023? Not soon enough, but giddyup!

It will be interesting to see which cities that received only 50-seater service will be left behind by DL.



Any chance DL obtains some CRJ 550s? Many of the 50 seaters were relegated to EAS routes anyway, which unless DL plans to turn those routes over to someone like a Cape Air, etc.,.. those routes will need to be served on something.
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:15 am

tphuang wrote:
I'm surprised 717 is sticking around for that long even.


Agreed especially since the FAA ordered DL to replace all the seats on the 717 by 2022. Also the latest internal pilot memo only showed around ~40 out of 91 717s being active next summer.
 
oosnowrat
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:44 am

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Satan's Chariot gone by the end of 2023? Not soon enough, but giddyup!

It will be interesting to see which cities that received only 50-seater service will be left behind by DL.


I wouldn't be a bit surprised if OO continues operating prorate CR2s in the background like they did with the Brasilias.
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:53 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Agreed. With as popular (and awesome) the Flagstaff / Sedona area is, I'm surprised that DL isn't already operating SLC-FLG.
Would there be elevation/runway length/performance issues with CR9s with an 8,800 ft runway at 7,000 ft?

Its a Skywest station with all OO CR7 service on AA & UA in there as it is now.


I would like to see out west DL add or resume SLC-FLG/SBP/SBA/AZA and LAX-SGU/SAN/SUN/RDM
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:42 am

kavok wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Satan's Chariot gone by the end of 2023? Not soon enough, but giddyup!

It will be interesting to see which cities that received only 50-seater service will be left behind by DL.



Any chance DL obtains some CRJ 550s? Many of the 50 seaters were relegated to EAS routes anyway, which unless DL plans to turn those routes over to someone like a Cape Air, etc.,.. those routes will need to be served on something.


There were 125 CR2's operating going into COVID. Less than 15 were dedicated to EAS flying...
From my cold, dead hands
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:33 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Probably has implications for its network:

"Delta has decided to retire the company’s Boeing 717-200 aircraft and the remainder of its 767-300ER aircraft by December 2025 and its CRJ-200 aircraft byDecember 2023, earlier than previously scheduled. These plans are another step in Delta’s fleet simplification strategy, which is intended to streamline and modernize Delta’s fleet, enhance the customer experience, and generate cost savings"
https://ir.delta.com/financials/sec-fil ... d=14409556


My question is what current aircraft in production can replace the 767. This probably means an end to secondary city TATL flying like IND, MCO, TPA and maybe RDU as anything bigger than a 767 is just to big. What does this mean for routes like ATL-BRU, ZRH and DUS. Does this mean more double connects over CDG and AMS in the Delta network.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Ishrion
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:36 pm

First DL A220-300 routes are expected to be SLC-AUS/IAH starting November 10.

Two SLC-SFO A223 flights on November 27/28.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AirlineFlyer ... 2288784384
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:04 pm

DL updated its November schedule, although Florida frequencies were basically untouched from the core hubs, (MCO-ATL is still at 16x) so more adjustments are likely coming.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:59 pm

Ishrion wrote:
First DL A220-300 routes are expected to be SLC-AUS/IAH starting November 10.

Two SLC-SFO A223 flights on November 27/28.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AirlineFlyer ... 2288784384


And the first ship will get delivered Monday the 28th.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:51 am

jplatts wrote:
SLC-BUF, SLC-ROC, SLC-BDL, and SLC-RIC are 4 of the top domestic routes not currently served from SLC, and here are the Q3 2019 PDEW's of these 4 routes:
SLC-BUF - 66
SLC-ROC - 60
SLC-BDL - 55
SLC-RIC - 55

DL can probably make SLC-BUF/ROC/BDL/RIC nonstop service work using Airbus A220-100 planes, and DL would also have some connecting traffic in addition to O&D on SLC-BUF/ROC/BDL/RIC if it adds nonstop service to BUF, ROC, BDL, or RIC from SLC.


DL couldn't make any of those routes work. You're pulling numbers from the height of a go-go economy, ignoring the fact that corporate travel is virtually nonexistent today and even when it returns, will take years to recover. Even in a go-go economy, those are long, thin flights. There's simply no chance of these flights happening for at least several years.
 
PlaneMad134
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:02 am

Looking at the Delta booking engine it seems BOS-EDI will return for S21 on the 27th of May. Flights will be 4x weekly B767-300ER.
 
Delta350
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:31 pm

777Mech wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
First DL A220-300 routes are expected to be SLC-AUS/IAH starting November 10.

Two SLC-SFO A223 flights on November 27/28.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AirlineFlyer ... 2288784384


And the first ship will get delivered Monday the 28th.

How do you know that?
Plane Spotter from the Magic City and Hartsfield-Jackson...(ATL)
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:23 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Probably has implications for its network:

"Delta has decided to retire the company’s Boeing 717-200 aircraft and the remainder of its 767-300ER aircraft by December 2025 and its CRJ-200 aircraft byDecember 2023, earlier than previously scheduled. These plans are another step in Delta’s fleet simplification strategy, which is intended to streamline and modernize Delta’s fleet, enhance the customer experience, and generate cost savings"
https://ir.delta.com/financials/sec-fil ... d=14409556


My takes on the impact on each fleet retirement on the network:

CRJ-200 - this will likely be the largest impact, simply due to the number of current CR2-only stations. I'd guess DL will be pulling out of a number of small airports as these leave the fleet :( . In other cases we'll probably see frequency reduction with upgauges to 70-seaters. More headwinds for the CVG and RDU focus city operations.

717-200 - likely not much impact on the network. Some cities will undoubtedly see fewer mainline flights as a result, but A220s and 319s could be used to cover routes where the volume continues to support mainline capacity. I don't see many/any routes getting dropped entirely as a direct result of these retirements.

767-300ER - somewhere in between the above two in impact. We'll unfortunately likely see a long-term pullback from some thinner TATL routes. However, I do wonder what the difference in trip cost is between a 763 with 210 passengers and a 339 with 210 passengers on the same route... Maybe not that huge at the end of the day due to the more efficient fuel burn of the 339. There's also the possibility of moving 332s down to the thinner 763 routes and covering the 332 routes with 339s. At the end of the day, I think any impact on the long haul network due to the 763 retirements will be more a function of the total number of widebodies DL has left than due to any sort of capacity/performance gap that was uniquely filled by the 763.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
PVD523
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:51 am

After a glimmer of hope of getting DL back in November, service to PVD has now been axed through at least March with this schedule update. Disappointing but not surprising. New England has lagged the rest of their network for traffic rebound.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:02 pm

Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:16 pm

I think DL is making the right bet here. UA is hurting a little bit, but still wants to grow DEN. WN is clearly growing at DEN. SLC with its new terminal could become the next MSP for DL. That would be huge for them. I'd be curious to see if MSP is going to lose out from this. lso interestingly enough, the 3 western hubs came out the best.
 
jplatts
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:48 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
jplatts wrote:
SLC-BUF, SLC-ROC, SLC-BDL, and SLC-RIC are 4 of the top domestic routes not currently served from SLC, and here are the Q3 2019 PDEW's of these 4 routes:
SLC-BUF - 66
SLC-ROC - 60
SLC-BDL - 55
SLC-RIC - 55


DL couldn't make any of those routes work. You're pulling numbers from the height of a go-go economy, ignoring the fact that corporate travel is virtually nonexistent today and even when it returns, will take years to recover. Even in a go-go economy, those are long, thin flights. There's simply no chance of these flights happening for at least several years.


I can understand DL not adding SLC-BUF/ROC/BDL/RIC nonstop service until demand for domestic air travel recovers, but DL might be able to make these routes work once demand for domestic air travel returns to normal levels with the amount of passengers that were connecting to SLC and domestic destinations further west from BUF, ROC, BDL, and RIC prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

DL also now has A220-100's in its fleet that could be used on routes such as SLC-BUF/ROC/BDL/RIC.

I also understand that DL adding SLC-BUF/ROC/BDL/RIC nonstop service might be years away with decreased demand for domestic air travel during the COVID-19 pandemic.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2903
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:57 pm

tphuang wrote:
I think DL is making the right bet here. UA is hurting a little bit, but still wants to grow DEN. WN is clearly growing at DEN. SLC with its new terminal could become the next MSP for DL. That would be huge for them. I'd be curious to see if MSP is going to lose out from this. lso interestingly enough, the 3 western hubs came out the best.


What would MSP lose? SLC is a significantly smaller and more competitive market than MSP, I can't imagine a sound business case for moving service from a larger, higher revenue and more heavily dominated market to a smaller, lower revenue and less dominated one. SLC is a fast growing market for sure, but it's still a significantly smaller market than MSP and DTW. From the last data I saw, MSP was DL's second largest revenue airport, SLC was not in the top 5.

Jeremy
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:02 pm

Midwestindy wrote:



Just a question here but how can this person claim ATL was hit the hardest. Too me it's JFK and LGA were hit harder. ATL still has more seats than MSP and DTW combined and that's pretty much the same percentage that it held before the pandemic.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:14 pm

SESGDL wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think DL is making the right bet here. UA is hurting a little bit, but still wants to grow DEN. WN is clearly growing at DEN. SLC with its new terminal could become the next MSP for DL. That would be huge for them. I'd be curious to see if MSP is going to lose out from this. lso interestingly enough, the 3 western hubs came out the best.


What would MSP lose? SLC is a significantly smaller and more competitive market than MSP, I can't imagine a sound business case for moving service from a larger, higher revenue and more heavily dominated market to a smaller, lower revenue and less dominated one. SLC is a fast growing market for sure, but it's still a significantly smaller market than MSP and DTW. From the last data I saw, MSP was DL's second largest revenue airport, SLC was not in the top 5.

Jeremy


Is there a link available to that data Jeremy ?
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
MAH4546
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:31 pm

FLL-LAX is back on November 20th. Interesting add given their reassured commitment to MIA post-COVID, but possibly a jab at Alaska and jetBlue.
a.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:26 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
FLL-LAX is back on November 20th. Interesting add given their reassured commitment to MIA post-COVID, but possibly a jab at Alaska and jetBlue.


Probably they are adding it because FLL and LAX are leisure destinations. Could they add LAX-MIA?
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:44 am

Midwestindy wrote:


It’s good to see SLC at the lowest. But SLC did take some major blows with losing international nonstops; SLC-AMS/LHR/CDG/Canada, as well as the HNL and OGG nonstops. Non of the European or Canadian flights have come back yet. Only international flights at SLC right now are to MEX and CUN. Aeromexico has suspended GDL and KLM obviously hasn’t returned either.
 
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Midwestindy
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:50 am

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:


It’s good to see SLC at the lowest. But SLC did take some major blows with losing international nonstops; SLC-AMS/LHR/CDG/Canada, as well as the HNL and OGG nonstops. Non of the European or Canadian flights have come back yet. Only international flights at SLC right now are to MEX and CUN. Aeromexico has suspended GDL and KLM obviously hasn’t returned either.


I'm assuming you don't mean permanent losses, as the only one of those you mentioned that is no longer on the schedule is SLC-LHR
https://news.delta.com/delta-brings-bac ... ummer-2021

SLC-HNL restarts Nov 8, based on the updated November schedule.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
MastaHanky
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:02 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:55 am

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
It’s good to see SLC at the lowest. But SLC did take some major blows with losing international nonstops; SLC-AMS/LHR/CDG/Canada, as well as the HNL and OGG nonstops. Non of the European or Canadian flights have come back yet. Only international flights at SLC right now are to MEX and CUN. Aeromexico has suspended GDL and KLM obviously hasn’t returned either.


SLC-SJD is also around, and is being increased to twice daily - a first for that route. GDL is being moved onto DL metal. PVR is also still intact.

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