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DALMD80
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Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:13 pm

Well, it's finally here. The ADS-B Out mandate has arrived! Now you'll see every plane in the US on FR24! Technology in aviation really has advanced a lot. What do you think of the new mandate?
2 things- Wear a mask, and vote. It's that simple.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:21 pm

I thought it was after January 1st.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
MO11
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:25 pm

DALMD80 wrote:
Well, it's finally here. The ADS-B Out mandate has arrived! Now you'll see every plane in the US on FR24!


Well, that's not true.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:28 pm

DALMD80 wrote:
Well, it's finally here. The ADS-B Out mandate has arrived! Now you'll see every plane in the US on FR24! Technology in aviation really has advanced a lot. What do you think of the new mandate?


Not true at all. There are large chunks of the US where you can fly without ADS-B, and aircraft not equipped with an electrical system are not required to comply with ADS-B.
From my cold, dead hands
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:28 pm

You won't see any of the aircraft that are blocked by their owners (most corporate aircraft) or planes that never touch controlled airspace.

It's not a huge change but nice to get a more complete picture
 
DALMD80
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:32 pm

Most of them, I guess.
2 things- Wear a mask, and vote. It's that simple.
 
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NC1844V
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:40 pm

I didn't like to pay for it on my airplane, but I will say its nice to be able to get a pictures of what traffic may be out there while I'm flying
Steven
 
reltney
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:48 pm

DALMD80 wrote:
Well, it's finally here. The ADS-B Out mandate has arrived! Now you'll see every plane in the US on FR24! Technology in aviation really has advanced a lot. What do you think of the new mandate?



You won’t see a few of my planes. I have a cub and a luscombe under the Houston vail. No electrical system. Not every plane has to have it.

Cheers
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
kabq737
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:53 pm

I absolutely love having ADSB in and out on my airplane. Weather is just a bonus!

I think the simple transponder upgrade was well worth it!
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Planespotters.net shows DL with 48 operational MD-88s. Their data may lag by a week or so but the site is crowdsourced and pretty reliable. I checked maybe six tail registrations and all were shown by flightradar24 to be scheduled for flying. This may answer lightsaber's question: How many DL MD-88 frames have ADS-B?
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:50 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
This may answer lightsaber's question: How many DL MD-88 frames have ADS-B?


I think it is around 47 MD-88/ 25 MD-90s. I might be off a frame or two on the numbers.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:50 pm

kabq737 wrote:
I absolutely love having ADSB in and out on my airplane. Weather is just a bonus!

I think the simple transponder upgrade was well worth it!


Amen to that. I had it installed on my Cessna T210 and I love it. The traffic display is awesome and gives a huge boost to the feeling of safety. The weather is also a huge plus, especially flying long cross country flights where you encounter changing weather conditions.
 
M564038
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:21 am

Just insane that it took this long! There have been lifes lost because a conservative aerospace/aeronautical world drag their feet on mundane technology upgrades.
 
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Acey559
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:57 am

kabq737 wrote:
I absolutely love having ADSB in and out on my airplane. Weather is just a bonus!

I think the simple transponder upgrade was well worth it!


Same. I put the Avidyne AXP-340 Mode-S and IFD-440 plus MLB100 in my plane a couple years ago and can’t imagine not having it. Wonderful having terrain, weather and traffic.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:57 am

AirFiero wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
I absolutely love having ADSB in and out on my airplane. Weather is just a bonus!

I think the simple transponder upgrade was well worth it!


Amen to that. I had it installed on my Cessna T210 and I love it. The traffic display is awesome and gives a huge boost to the feeling of safety. The weather is also a huge plus, especially flying long cross country flights where you encounter changing weather conditions.


Very few airlines installed ADS-B in, just out, as required by the law.
From my cold, dead hands
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:37 am

Not good enough. If it's an aircraft, it needs to have a transponder that can't be turned off no matter what airspace you are in. You need to be visible.
 
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Acey559
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:48 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Not good enough. If it's an aircraft, it needs to have a transponder that can't be turned off no matter what airspace you are in. You need to be visible.


Why? I see no need for a Cub or something similar that never gets near controlled airspace to have a transponder. I currently live in remote Eastern Oregon and while there are many benefits of ADS-B in, out doesn’t get you anything, really. It’s an expensive piece of equipment that won’t really pay off for the owner that flies in remote regions. I’m happy the FAA allowed those owners to opt out.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:57 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
DALMD80 wrote:
Well, it's finally here. The ADS-B Out mandate has arrived! Now you'll see every plane in the US on FR24! Technology in aviation really has advanced a lot. What do you think of the new mandate?


Not true at all. There are large chunks of the US where you can fly without ADS-B, and aircraft not equipped with an electrical system are not required to comply with ADS-B.


Around 60% of GA is still not ADSB equipped. I know that for me, it is a combination of cost, and Avionics shop availability. I have been told it can be done, with enough cash, by May or June.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:13 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Not good enough. If it's an aircraft, it needs to have a transponder that can't be turned off no matter what airspace you are in. You need to be visible.


Would you like to pay for it?
From my cold, dead hands
 
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nstampede002
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:33 am

1090MHz ADS-B out solutions are the only thing visible on FR24 for the time being, so far as I know. 978MHz ADS-B systems (which is what I have on my 172 - uAvionix Skybeacon) aren’t visible yet, but FR24 is working on that now. So there are still some gaps in coverage until those aircraft get picked up. You can see them on FlightAware though, with seemingly less position accuracy.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:33 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Not good enough. If it's an aircraft, it needs to have a transponder that can't be turned off no matter what airspace you are in. You need to be visible.


Would you like to pay for it?


No, if you can't afford to keep your aircraft up to date then you can sell it. Airplanes and cheapskates don't mix well. See and avoid is not good enough. I should be able to see all traffic around me.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:40 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Not good enough. If it's an aircraft, it needs to have a transponder that can't be turned off no matter what airspace you are in. You need to be visible.


Would you like to pay for it?


No, if you can't afford to keep your aircraft up to date then you can sell it. Airplanes and cheapskates don't mix well. See and avoid is not good enough. I should be able to see all traffic around me.


You can see all the traffic around you, with see and avoid... How do you propose adding a transponder to a J3 cub?
From my cold, dead hands
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:48 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

Would you like to pay for it?


No, if you can't afford to keep your aircraft up to date then you can sell it. Airplanes and cheapskates don't mix well. See and avoid is not good enough. I should be able to see all traffic around me.


You can see all the traffic around you, with see and avoid... How do you propose adding a transponder to a J3 cub?


There are blind spots in every aircraft. GA flying shouldn't be a roll of the dice. It doesn't matter how good of a pilot you are if you've got some reckless a-hole not following the rules. At least give me the opportunity to see everyone and stay away from them. We have had the technology for many years and it's my opinion that it should be required. Airplanes are not toys. Pilots in the US should also be required to speak fluent Engliah. It's incredibly scary when you can't understand someone's position report.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:07 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

No, if you can't afford to keep your aircraft up to date then you can sell it. Airplanes and cheapskates don't mix well. See and avoid is not good enough. I should be able to see all traffic around me.


You can see all the traffic around you, with see and avoid... How do you propose adding a transponder to a J3 cub?


There are blind spots in every aircraft. GA flying shouldn't be a roll of the dice. It doesn't matter how good of a pilot you are if you've got some reckless a-hole not following the rules. At least give me the opportunity to see everyone and stay away from them. We have had the technology for many years and it's my opinion that it should be required. Airplanes are not toys. Pilots in the US should also be required to speak fluent Engliah. It's incredibly scary when you can't understand someone's position report.


Position reports aren't required, nor is a radio. I suppose you want to make that illegal too, just to satisfy your inability to fly an airplane safely without whizbang gadgets?
From my cold, dead hands
 
cschleic
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:07 am

Remember...even with In you don't see all of the planes around you....just those with Out. As discussed above, many planes and locales aren't required to have it. After I had my In transponder installed, I was mildly shocked to see 10 targets within 10 miles on the display but never saw one of them with my eyes. But I remind myself to keep scanning because there are more than those 10 out there.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:11 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

You can see all the traffic around you, with see and avoid... How do you propose adding a transponder to a J3 cub?


There are blind spots in every aircraft. GA flying shouldn't be a roll of the dice. It doesn't matter how good of a pilot you are if you've got some reckless a-hole not following the rules. At least give me the opportunity to see everyone and stay away from them. We have had the technology for many years and it's my opinion that it should be required. Airplanes are not toys. Pilots in the US should also be required to speak fluent Engliah. It's incredibly scary when you can't understand someone's position report.


Position reports aren't required, nor is a radio. I suppose you want to make that illegal too, just to satisfy your inability to fly an airplane safely without whizbang gadgets?


Wow, I guess you think the crews of Hughes Air West, Aeromexico, and PSA were unable to fly their planes safely too. Why must you be insulting in trying to support your position?
 
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Kaphias
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:22 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

There are blind spots in every aircraft. GA flying shouldn't be a roll of the dice. It doesn't matter how good of a pilot you are if you've got some reckless a-hole not following the rules. At least give me the opportunity to see everyone and stay away from them. We have had the technology for many years and it's my opinion that it should be required. Airplanes are not toys. Pilots in the US should also be required to speak fluent Engliah. It's incredibly scary when you can't understand someone's position report.


Position reports aren't required, nor is a radio. I suppose you want to make that illegal too, just to satisfy your inability to fly an airplane safely without whizbang gadgets?


Wow, I guess you think the crews of Hughes Air West, Aeromexico, and PSA were unable to fly their planes safely too. Why must you be insulting in trying to support your position?

Which of these incidents occurred in airspace that currently do not require ADS-B?

We fly our Cessna 150 in rural Alaska and won't be installing it for the foreseeable future. I think it's great to have in more populated areas.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:25 am

Kaphias wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

Position reports aren't required, nor is a radio. I suppose you want to make that illegal too, just to satisfy your inability to fly an airplane safely without whizbang gadgets?


Wow, I guess you think the crews of Hughes Air West, Aeromexico, and PSA were unable to fly their planes safely too. Why must you be insulting in trying to support your position?

Which of these incidents occurred in airspace that currently do not require ADS-B?

We fly our Cessna 150 in rural Alaska and won't be installing it for the foreseeable future. I think it's great to have in more populated areas.


I'll give him a hint, it rhymes with "none of them"...
From my cold, dead hands
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:25 am

Kaphias wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

Position reports aren't required, nor is a radio. I suppose you want to make that illegal too, just to satisfy your inability to fly an airplane safely without whizbang gadgets?


Wow, I guess you think the crews of Hughes Air West, Aeromexico, and PSA were unable to fly their planes safely too. Why must you be insulting in trying to support your position?

Which of these incidents occurred in airspace that currently do not require ADS-B?

We fly our Cessna 150 in rural Alaska and won't be installing it for the foreseeable future. I think it's great to have in more populated areas.


That member seems to think a "good pilot" will always be able to see any conflicting traffic. And that isn't true at all.
 
DashTrash
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:33 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Kaphias wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Wow, I guess you think the crews of Hughes Air West, Aeromexico, and PSA were unable to fly their planes safely too. Why must you be insulting in trying to support your position?

Which of these incidents occurred in airspace that currently do not require ADS-B?

We fly our Cessna 150 in rural Alaska and won't be installing it for the foreseeable future. I think it's great to have in more populated areas.


That member seems to think a "good pilot" will always be able to see any conflicting traffic. And that isn't true at all.


Bingo... More often than not we’re having to sequence ourselves into busier uncontrolled airports by TCAS. I get the expense pain for aircraft owners required to put it in their aircraft, but the added level of safety in uncontrolled airports where turbine powered aircraft are mixing in with lower speed singles is priceless for me, and those pilots too if I can’t see them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:36 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Planespotters.net shows DL with 48 operational MD-88s. Their data may lag by a week or so but the site is crowdsourced and pretty reliable. I checked maybe six tail registrations and all were shown by flightradar24 to be scheduled for flying. This may answer lightsaber's question: How many DL MD-88 frames have ADS-B?

I thank you for the preliminary answer. :)

For that type, and the MD-90, it is a step function in how many can fly.

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:03 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Not good enough. If it's an aircraft, it needs to have a transponder that can't be turned off no matter what airspace you are in. You need to be visible.


Would you like to pay for it?


No, if you can't afford to keep your aircraft up to date then you can sell it. Airplanes and cheapskates don't mix well. See and avoid is not good enough. I should be able to see all traffic around me.

Given your comments, I assume you're one of those who loves all those gimmicks (a.k.a. Drivers Assistance) that have made their way into new cars?
All this, under the cover of "helping" drivers, actually makes them less attentive to the road, less apt at actually driving a car and transforms "drivers" into mere "operators"; I don't even want to think what'll happen when one of those systems fail. This appears to be coming to aviation...
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:10 am

The substitution of money for skill!

GF
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:21 am

WayexTDI wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

Would you like to pay for it?


No, if you can't afford to keep your aircraft up to date then you can sell it. Airplanes and cheapskates don't mix well. See and avoid is not good enough. I should be able to see all traffic around me.

Given your comments, I assume you're one of those who loves all those gimmicks (a.k.a. Drivers Assistance) that have made their way into new cars?
All this, under the cover of "helping" drivers, actually makes them less attentive to the road, less apt at actually driving a car and transforms "drivers" into mere "operators"; I don't even want to think what'll happen when one of those systems fail. This appears to be coming to aviation...


Those are to aid situational awareness, not replace it. I just want to be able to see all of the traffic so I can make appropriate decisions. You are making some very sweeping generalizations. You cannot see all traffic just by looking outside. And I cannot ensure that someone without a transponder won't wander into controlled airspace. This isn't a game. We should strive to make general aviation as safe as possible.

I can't stand the attitude of some pilots. I remember one student who blew out the skylights pulling excessive and prohibited maneuvers on a cross country flight. He didn't tell anyone upon landing what he had done. He should have never been allowed to touch an airplane again. But nothing happened other than a slap on the wrist. What if the damage hadn't been so obvious and someone else took the airplane up without it being inspected? There are too many dumb cowboys who need to have their certificates revoked.
Last edited by TTailedTiger on Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:24 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The substitution of money for skill!

GF


I dont know if I would classify not being able to see a Cessna 150 flying in front of the sun in the American Southwest as lacking piloting skills but that's just me

We can still see the "skills" on display at uncontrolled airports outside of the veil for many years to come.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:28 am

SierraPacific wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The substitution of money for skill!

GF


I dont know if I would classify not being able to see a Cessna 150 flying in front of the sun in the American Southwest as lacking piloting skills but that's just me

We can still see the "skills" on display at uncontrolled airports outside of the veil for many years to come.


Exactly. :checkmark:
 
alpine1989
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:58 am

Government aircraft are only 71% equipped. How ironic.
 
gloom
Posts: 464
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:48 am

M564038 wrote:
There have been lifes lost because a conservative aerospace/aeronautical world drag their feet on mundane technology upgrades.


Not really, since it works both ways. New technology with new undetected errors could kill people as well. Pentium bug, anyone? Tesla in the sky?

And after all, we could still fly VOR2VOR airways, it's not less safe. Just less eco (eco-nomic, eco-logic). But perfectly safe. It's not like new technology brings safety up. In a longer horizon, sure, but it doesn't mean you have to accept it from the first day it's introduced. ADSB was introduced in different airspaces and places for around last 10 years in many countries (more or less, couldn't find an exact reference), letting all those brains see how it performs between real aircraft and ATC. What range is possible, what are limitations, what if bottleneck occures (and where). All of this needs to be solved for a system to be safe. And there's still a chance those years was not enough.

So, this is just personal opinion. I find this timeline and dates quite safe, opposite to you. I like the idea of many security levels (can't use ADSB, use ModeC), timely introduction (there were operational areas for Europe or Australia, where ADSB was already mandatory for past few years). This is how "safe" is supposed to work.

Cheers, Adam

PS. As a little joke: Trust me, I'm an engineer (actually, a system software architect), so I know some problems when you design comm-IT network of that magnitude and how many elements can fail for a million of different, unexpected reasons. And all of that without bringing new, unified technology over existing environment, which was the case for ADSB.
 
Rampvan
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:05 am

For the first time yesterday I picked up a tracking KC135 over LHR...... Be a very happy bunny if that continues
Silver dream machine
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:54 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The substitution of money for skill!

GF


I dont know if I would classify not being able to see a Cessna 150 flying in front of the sun in the American Southwest as lacking piloting skills but that's just me

We can still see the "skills" on display at uncontrolled airports outside of the veil for many years to come.


My point was that many associate technology as a substitute for learning the basic skill for a task, in general. BTW, I and, at least two other friends survived mid-airs, two military, one general aviation. The GA one was the classic low-wing landing on top of a high wing—Cherokee vs. Colt. Friend was in the Colt. So, I’m not unaware of the hazard.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:55 pm

alpine1989 wrote:
Government aircraft are only 71% equipped. How ironic.


I’m surprised it’s that high! We ran Europe without FM immune ILS receivers, no 8.33 radios for years.
 
VS11
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:31 pm

The mandate and deadline have been very well publicized for at least the last 5 years. The FAA was giving $500 vouchers for GA aircraft owners to help with the cost. I really don’t see any excuse for aircraft not having it. The mandate has made the second-hand GA aircraft market quite dynamic with older frames being totally refurbished.
Last edited by VS11 on Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2220
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:36 pm

gloom wrote:
Not really, since it works both ways. New technology with new undetected errors could kill people as well. Pentium bug, anyone? Tesla in the sky?


I think you should probably use a shoddy example in your quote above. Perhaps something like: "Boeing's MCAS". And really, you have to go all the way back to Pentium to find an example? There's been plenty of other examples of computer flaws in the 25 years since the first Pentiums.

Tesla (S/X/3 models) all carry five star safety ratings...in every category. And they have the most advanced Supplemental Driver Assist (SDA)* suite on the market. We would be fortunate to have this level of safety/assistance on every aircraft.

*I will be the first to admit, and I've said this for years: "Autopilot" was a terrible name for an SDA and will cost them dearly. And it has. There's been a few crashes where people were not paying attention (but using AP), but in that same amount of time, there's been hundreds of thousands of accidents in other cars where drivers weren't paying attention (some using SDA systems, some not). It's just like the 10 or so Tesla fires that have made global news when hundreds of gasoline cars catch on fire every day...

I'll take Tesla's SDA systems over any other manufacturer any day.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:00 pm

VS11 wrote:
The mandate and deadline have been very well publicized for at least the last 5 years. The FAA was giving $500 vouchers for GA aircraft owners to help with the cost. I really don’t see any excuse for aircraft not having it. The mandate has made the second-hand GA aircraft market quite dynamic with older frames being totally refurbished.


How much an ADS-B transmitter costs for a GA aircraft.
All posts are just opinions.
 
VS11
Posts: 1661
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:38 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
VS11 wrote:
The mandate and deadline have been very well publicized for at least the last 5 years. The FAA was giving $500 vouchers for GA aircraft owners to help with the cost. I really don’t see any excuse for aircraft not having it. The mandate has made the second-hand GA aircraft market quite dynamic with older frames being totally refurbished.


How much an ADS-B transmitter costs for a GA aircraft.


There are many options, especially if you go for an overall avionics upgrade. That’s why the second hand market has been very active because you can do a total overhaul of the plane. I have only followed the C172 market but older frames below $50k fly off the shelf pretty quickly. After an engine and avionics upgrade they can still sell for a quarter or a third of the price of a new plane.

https://www.flyingmag.com/ads-b-countdown/
 
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767333ER
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:55 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

There are blind spots in every aircraft. GA flying shouldn't be a roll of the dice. It doesn't matter how good of a pilot you are if you've got some reckless a-hole not following the rules. At least give me the opportunity to see everyone and stay away from them. We have had the technology for many years and it's my opinion that it should be required. Airplanes are not toys. Pilots in the US should also be required to speak fluent Engliah. It's incredibly scary when you can't understand someone's position report.


Position reports aren't required, nor is a radio. I suppose you want to make that illegal too, just to satisfy your inability to fly an airplane safely without whizbang gadgets?


Wow, I guess you think the crews of Hughes Air West, Aeromexico, and PSA were unable to fly their planes safely too. Why must you be insulting in trying to support your position?

I can see the point of both sides, so all I’ll say is that you wouldn’t really have a need for a seatbelt if you are driving responsibly on quiet country road with no one around; nevertheless, it is required by law to have one and to use it for a good reason so you would use one if you want to comply. There was a time where many thought seatbelts we useless and they’d have all sorts of excuses like this (some of which had some bit of validity) and they’d also say when they would drive into a place where it was not required by law off the seatbelt would come and they would be “home free”. The same ones today say they were stupid for thinking and doing such things. There is a refusal to change just for the sake that they don’t want to change, understandable, but at some point it is better to reduce risk than worry about costing those that already can afford to have an expensive hobby more money.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180

2 ears for spatial hearing, 2 eyes for depth perception, 2 ears for balance... How did Boeing think 1 sensor was good enough?!
 
KFLLCFII
Posts: 3579
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:08 am

Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:07 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
fluent Engliah.


Oh, the irony. :laughing:
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:13 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
alpine1989 wrote:
Government aircraft are only 71% equipped. How ironic.


I’m surprised it’s that high! We ran Europe without FM immune ILS receivers, no 8.33 radios for years.

That makes me chuckle.

Overall, like seatbelt mandates, this will make flying safer.

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3619
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:24 pm

DALMD80 wrote:
Well, it's finally here. The ADS-B Out mandate has arrived! Now you'll see every plane in the US on FR24! Technology in aviation really has advanced a lot. What do you think of the new mandate?


Not really. Business jets (ie Trump, Tribune, ect) can opt out of tracking access.They have to have ADS-B installed but FR24 cannot track them publicly.
 
gloom
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:24 pm

Re: Happy ADS-B Mandate!

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:04 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
I think you should probably use a shoddy example in your quote above.


I could, sure. There's plenty. The question is how many of these are known to the non-IT and be a signature. Pentium has been known, for sure.

RDUDDJI wrote:
Perhaps something like: "Boeing's MCAS".


Really? Why putting words in my mouth? Common, you can do better than that.
In fact, I don't feel MCAS is a major failure. I'll wait for experts to finish the job.

RDUDDJI wrote:
And really, you have to go all the way back to Pentium to find an example? There's been plenty of other examples of computer flaws in the 25 years since the first Pentiums.


Sure. I know a couple of them. But on av geeks forum, I'll use one well-known over latest.

RDUDDJI wrote:
Tesla (S/X/3 models) all carry five star safety ratings...in every category. And they have the most advanced Supplemental Driver Assist (SDA)* suite on the market. We would be fortunate to have this level of safety/assistance on every aircraft.
*I will be the first to admit, and I've said this for years: "Autopilot" was a terrible name for an SDA and will cost them dearly.
RDUDDJI wrote:
I'll take Tesla's SDA systems over any other manufacturer any day.


Yeah, as long as it's SDA, you might be right.

However it's the function, not the name, that makes up the system. This system allows completely input-less driving, hence is an autopilot.

Once it allows driving non-augmented by person, it becomes autopilot, and no name will change that.
If it only helps with some of drivers functions, and does not allow driving without drivers input (like brake assist, or active tempomats, or lane keeping assists, or sign recognition), it is an assist system.

Simple as that.

Try to control your attitude, please :) you seem overly harsh over a simple statements.

Cheers,
Adam

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