Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
bnatraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 389
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:10 am

DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:29 pm

I flew down on DL61/28DEC ATL-GIG and booked back on AA. It looks like it was a good idea in the end (despite the markedly lower level of inflight service from AA in J), as it seems like N154DL is also plowing the skies on the return last night - but diverted to POS and now SJU. Anyone know what is going on with that ship?

https://FlightAware.com/live/flight/N154DL
 
sxf24
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:59 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
bnatraveler wrote:
I flew down on DL61/28DEC ATL-GIG and booked back on AA. It looks like it was a good idea in the end (despite the markedly lower level of inflight service from AA in J), as it seems like N154DL is also plowing the skies on the return last night - but diverted to POS and now SJU. Anyone know what is going on with that ship?

https://FlightAware.com/live/flight/N154DL


You recognize that for four of the last five months reported by the DOT's 'Air Travel Consumer Report' that DL mainline has had a lower rate of diversions than AA mainline, right?

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsu ... ports-2019


The point was that on Dec 28, it was lucky to have booked AA. I’m also interested in the question why this particular ship/flight diverted twice.
 
evanb
Posts: 918
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:06 pm

bnatraveler wrote:
I flew down on DL61/28DEC ATL-GIG and booked back on AA. It looks like it was a good idea in the end (despite the markedly lower level of inflight service from AA in J), as it seems like N154DL is also plowing the skies on the return last night - but diverted to POS and now SJU. Anyone know what is going on with that ship?

https://FlightAware.com/live/flight/N154DL


First diversion likely medical. Crew running short of time due to time on the ground at POS. Delta likely positioned new crew to SJU to take over flight. Alternative was cancelling and putting everyone in hotels at POS until crew achieved sufficient rest.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:07 pm

The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.
 
raylee67
Posts: 922
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:11 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Impressive operational arrangement indeed. Similar to how they flew the last flight out of SJU before the hurricane hit last time.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
catiii
Posts: 3611
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:28 pm

evanb wrote:
bnatraveler wrote:
I flew down on DL61/28DEC ATL-GIG and booked back on AA. It looks like it was a good idea in the end (despite the markedly lower level of inflight service from AA in J), as it seems like N154DL is also plowing the skies on the return last night - but diverted to POS and now SJU. Anyone know what is going on with that ship?

https://FlightAware.com/live/flight/N154DL


First diversion likely medical. Crew running short of time due to time on the ground at POS. Delta likely positioned new crew to SJU to take over flight. Alternative was cancelling and putting everyone in hotels at POS until crew achieved sufficient rest.


It was a mechanical. Have a colleague onboard. As of an hour ago they did not have a plan to recover but were working on one.
 
catiii
Posts: 3611
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:28 pm

raylee67 wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Impressive operational arrangement indeed. Similar to how they flew the last flight out of SJU before the hurricane hit last time.


A more impressive operation is, you know, not having to divert...
 
Jwh1977
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:31 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:11 pm

catiii wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Impressive operational arrangement indeed. Similar to how they flew the last flight out of SJU before the hurricane hit last time.


A more impressive operation is, you know, not having to divert...


Every airline will have unplanned diversions. A true test of an airline's operation is how well they recover when things don't go as planned.
 
catiii
Posts: 3611
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:29 pm

Finally off at SJU. Should be into ATL at 1715L.
 
N312RC
Posts: 2619
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 10:58 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:54 pm

Zealots on one side who have an axe to grind against Delta because they are mad about that thing that happened 27 years ago that Delta did to them.

Zealots on the other side who have drank so much blue Delta kool-aid over the years that the company could probably literally screw them and they’d happily take it.

Everyone gets angry and nobody changes their minds. Gotta love the internet.

Anyway, it was more than likely the most reasonable solution to a terrible logistical problem. For those of you making snide comments about diversions, would you rather the flight continued and killed the passenger/flown the airplane in an unsafe condition? Or would you of rather overnighted in POS where Delta doesn’t have a presence and likely couldn’t have taken care of your needs as well as an online station?

Since you’re so smart, what was the better solution? I’m sure the pilots, flight attendants, the dispatcher, etc. would LOVE to hear it!
 
KFTG
Posts: 864
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:15 am

Surprised to learn that one of the ex-Gulf Air ships is still in use at Delta. Thought they'd retired that subfleet?
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14586
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:19 am

catiii wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Impressive operational arrangement indeed. Similar to how they flew the last flight out of SJU before the hurricane hit last time.


A more impressive operation is, you know, not having to divert...


OK, but who has that? Stuff breaks sometimes. That’s true even for carriers like DL with solid m/x. Heck, I’ve diverted on WN BNA-MDW because the airport was closed due to a disabled aircraft on the runway. That’s not apples-to-apples here, of course, but the idea that diversions mean that the operation has problems isn’t true.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
catiii
Posts: 3611
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:56 am

Cubsrule wrote:
catiii wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Impressive operational arrangement indeed. Similar to how they flew the last flight out of SJU before the hurricane hit last time.


A more impressive operation is, you know, not having to divert...


OK, but who has that? Stuff breaks sometimes. That’s true even for carriers like DL with solid m/x. Heck, I’ve diverted on WN BNA-MDW because the airport was closed due to a disabled aircraft on the runway. That’s not apples-to-apples here, of course, but the idea that diversions mean that the operation has problems isn’t true.


Listen I’m with you. Mechanicals happen. But let’s not pretend like a double divert to recover is such an impressive “operational arrangement.” Nor is it remotely similar to them cutting it close going into SJU ahead of a storm.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:00 am

catiii wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Impressive operational arrangement indeed. Similar to how they flew the last flight out of SJU before the hurricane hit last time.


A more impressive operation is, you know, not having to divert...


Perhaps you would, you know, share any industry competitive metrics you may have with regard to rates of mechanical diversions, mechanical air turn backs, and cancellations due to mechanicals?
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14586
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:12 am

catiii wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
catiii wrote:

A more impressive operation is, you know, not having to divert...


OK, but who has that? Stuff breaks sometimes. That’s true even for carriers like DL with solid m/x. Heck, I’ve diverted on WN BNA-MDW because the airport was closed due to a disabled aircraft on the runway. That’s not apples-to-apples here, of course, but the idea that diversions mean that the operation has problems isn’t true.


Listen I’m with you. Mechanicals happen. But let’s not pretend like a double divert to recover is such an impressive “operational arrangement.” Nor is it remotely similar to them cutting it close going into SJU ahead of a storm.


Agreed with your second sentence. But for me, moving the airplane from a “desperation diversion” airport - one that is in a country where DL has no presence and some passengers may not be admissible - to an online station in the country of destination, is a win (albeit not a big win) for passengers.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
User avatar
DL_Mech
Posts: 2517
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:53 am

KFTG wrote:
Surprised to learn that one of the ex-Gulf Air ships is still in use at Delta. Thought they'd retired that subfleet?


Two have left for freighter conversion (1501,1503), but the other four keep on flying.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:35 am

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.


Except this is not what happened. Plane left SJU after several hours on the ground to arrive in ATL 12hrs late.

So not really any logistics needed
Last edited by CriticalPoint on Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:41 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.


Except this is not what happened. Plane left SJU after several hours on the ground to arrive in ATL 12hrs late.

So not really any logistics needed


It left two hours after the new crew arrived in SJU. They scheduled the plane to leave 1 hour after the first flight of the day from ATL arrived, but took a delay.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:04 am

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.


Except this is not what happened. Plane left SJU after several hours on the ground to arrive in ATL 12hrs late.

So not really any logistics needed


It left two hours after the new crew arrived in SJU. They scheduled the plane to leave 1 hour after the first flight of the day from ATL arrived, but took a delay.


Why did they take a delay in SJU?
 
777Mech
Posts: 997
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:25 am

catiii wrote:
evanb wrote:
bnatraveler wrote:
I flew down on DL61/28DEC ATL-GIG and booked back on AA. It looks like it was a good idea in the end (despite the markedly lower level of inflight service from AA in J), as it seems like N154DL is also plowing the skies on the return last night - but diverted to POS and now SJU. Anyone know what is going on with that ship?

https://FlightAware.com/live/flight/N154DL


First diversion likely medical. Crew running short of time due to time on the ground at POS. Delta likely positioned new crew to SJU to take over flight. Alternative was cancelling and putting everyone in hotels at POS until crew achieved sufficient rest.


It was a mechanical. Have a colleague onboard. As of an hour ago they did not have a plan to recover but were working on one.


Yeah no, this was a medical diversion. I'm looking right at the flight remarks.
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3698
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:52 am

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
It left two hours after the new crew arrived in SJU. They scheduled the plane to leave 1 hour after the first flight of the day from ATL arrived, but took a delay.


It should be mentioned that the first flight of the day from ATL was scheduled to arrive about two hours after the plane would be landing in SJU. So in total they were on the ground there about four hours.

The result is that the recovery for this flight was nothing special. It wasn't going the extra mile, as no new flights were created nor was the new crew expedited to SJU. This was the cheapest/slowest option that didn't leave the PAX stranded. Any airline worth their salt would have matched or even beaten this effort.

777Mech wrote:
Yeah no, this was a medical diversion. I'm looking right at the flight remarks.


Well, for that to be true, it means multiple people aren't telling the truth online.

Almost five hours on the ground would be an unusually long time for a medical situation.
 
YYZatcboy
Posts: 1188
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:59 pm

MSPNWA wrote:

Almost five hours on the ground would be an unusually long time for a medical situation.


Could have been both. Divert for medical and then something breaks on the ground. Or it could even be as simple as having to re stock the O2 and EMK and dealing with finding 3rd party mtc to sign the logbook who are qualified and approved by DL/FAA.
DH1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30/50/80 717 727 735/6/7/8/9 744 762/3 77E/W 788/789 E40/75/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150
J/S DH8D 736/7/8 763
 
ethernal
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 12:09 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:40 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The result is that the recovery for this flight was nothing special. It wasn't going the extra mile, as no new flights were created nor was the new crew expedited to SJU. This was the cheapest/slowest option that didn't leave the PAX stranded. Any airline worth their salt would have matched or even beaten this effort.


Perhaps it is true that any airline worth their salt would have done this, but unfortunately there are very few airlines worth their salt.

Also, perhaps it is becoming more common now, but you have to remember that Delta pretty much invented the in-route crew refresh technique earlier this decade as part of their cancelling cancellations crusade.

In my experience, other airlines are still good about refreshing crews at hubs if they are able to make it to one (e.g., I had a recent crew refresh in JFK when flying to CLT on AA from LHR), but not as good at doing outstation intercepts like what happened at SJU.

I don't think taking a 12 hour delay is worth patting Delta on the back about, but let's not pretend that most other airlines wouldn't have taken a longer one. I am confident that most airlines would have overnighted at POS and taken a 24+ delay.

I am not a fanboy and I have a lot of gripes about Delta, but I fly 300K miles a year butt-in-seat and their operational reliability - and what they do to get you home - is unparalleled. Their completion factor speaks to that.
 
IADCA
Posts: 2191
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:01 pm

ethernal wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The result is that the recovery for this flight was nothing special. It wasn't going the extra mile, as no new flights were created nor was the new crew expedited to SJU. This was the cheapest/slowest option that didn't leave the PAX stranded. Any airline worth their salt would have matched or even beaten this effort.


I don't think taking a 12 hour delay is worth patting Delta on the back about, but let's not pretend that most other airlines wouldn't have taken a longer one. I am confident that most airlines would have overnighted at POS and taken a 24+ delay.


Hard to say. POS in particular would have given either AA or UA an easier time as they both fly there. Depending on time of day and amount of notice, they might have been able to get a new crew onto their flights down to Trinidad and thus skipped the SJU stop. It seems DL did decently given the circumstances.
 
737MAX7
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:21 pm

YYZatcboy wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:

Almost five hours on the ground would be an unusually long time for a medical situation.


Could have been both. Divert for medical and then something breaks on the ground. Or it could even be as simple as having to re stock the O2 and EMK and dealing with finding 3rd party mtc to sign the logbook who are qualified and approved by DL/FAA.

This ^ Had several medical diversions into CLE when i was there where we took significant delays and/or had to aircraft swap due to not having the appropriate amount of oxygen bottles available on board. Being an outstation for WN sometimes we’d have to wait 2+ hours for the next flight to come in to swap them. Also being an outstation we had to use contract mx and we were definitely NOT at the top of their priority list. In fact we took a 4+ hour delay just to get a tire changed.
 
mrpippy
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:25 pm

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:44 pm

Avherald reports that the captain told passengers it was a generator failure

https://avherald.com/h?article=4d17d775&opt=0
 
bnatraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 389
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:10 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:48 pm

mrpippy wrote:
Avherald reports that the captain told passengers it was a generator failure

https://avherald.com/h?article=4d17d775&opt=0


This frankly makes the most sense. Flight turned west and rapidly dropped altitude towards the target diversion airport immediately upon entering open water. Perhaps they were running their overwater checklist and caught it then.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2624
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:56 pm

777Mech wrote:
Yeah no, this was a medical diversion. I'm looking right at the flight remarks.


Multiple media outlets reporting generator failure. Why post something that is incorrect when the correct story can be so easily verified?

https://simpleflying.com/delta-767-generator-failure/

https://www.aeroinside.com/item/14223/d ... or-failure
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

Re: DL60/01JAN GIG-ATL N154DL double diversion

Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:12 pm

In this case, does the new crew comprise only the pilots? Or did new FAs also take over in SJU? I only ask because I’ve been aware of Delta FAs afraid to call in fatigued since they are non union.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos