I flew down on DL61/28DEC ATL-GIG and booked back on AA. It looks like it was a good idea in the end (despite the markedly lower level of inflight service from AA in J), as it seems like N154DL is also plowing the skies on the return last night - but diverted to POS and now SJU. Anyone know what is going on with that ship?

https://FlightAware.com/live/flight/N154DL

MIflyer12 wrote:

bnatraveler wrote:

I flew down on DL61/28DEC ATL-GIG and booked back on AA. It looks like it was a good idea in the end (despite the markedly lower level of inflight service from AA in J), as it seems like N154DL is also plowing the skies on the return last night - but diverted to POS and now SJU. Anyone know what is going on with that ship?

https://FlightAware.com/live/flight/N154DL

You recognize that for four of the last five months reported by the DOT's 'Air Travel Consumer Report' that DL mainline has had a lower rate of diversions than AA mainline, right?

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsu ... ports-2019

The point was that on Dec 28, it was lucky to have booked AA. I’m also interested in the question why this particular ship/flight diverted twice.

bnatraveler wrote:

I flew down on DL61/28DEC ATL-GIG and booked back on AA. It looks like it was a good idea in the end (despite the markedly lower level of inflight service from AA in J), as it seems like N154DL is also plowing the skies on the return last night - but diverted to POS and now SJU. Anyone know what is going on with that ship?

https://FlightAware.com/live/flight/N154DL

First diversion likely medical. Crew running short of time due to time on the ground at POS. Delta likely positioned new crew to SJU to take over flight. Alternative was cancelling and putting everyone in hotels at POS until crew achieved sufficient rest.

The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Impressive operational arrangement indeed. Similar to how they flew the last flight out of SJU before the hurricane hit last time.

evanb wrote:

bnatraveler wrote:

I flew down on DL61/28DEC ATL-GIG and booked back on AA. It looks like it was a good idea in the end (despite the markedly lower level of inflight service from AA in J), as it seems like N154DL is also plowing the skies on the return last night - but diverted to POS and now SJU. Anyone know what is going on with that ship?

https://FlightAware.com/live/flight/N154DL

First diversion likely medical. Crew running short of time due to time on the ground at POS. Delta likely positioned new crew to SJU to take over flight. Alternative was cancelling and putting everyone in hotels at POS until crew achieved sufficient rest.

It was a mechanical. Have a colleague onboard. As of an hour ago they did not have a plan to recover but were working on one.

raylee67 wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Impressive operational arrangement indeed. Similar to how they flew the last flight out of SJU before the hurricane hit last time.

A more impressive operation is, you know, not having to divert...

catiii wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Impressive operational arrangement indeed. Similar to how they flew the last flight out of SJU before the hurricane hit last time.

A more impressive operation is, you know, not having to divert...

Every airline will have unplanned diversions. A true test of an airline's operation is how well they recover when things don't go as planned.

Finally off at SJU. Should be into ATL at 1715L.

Zealots on one side who have an axe to grind against Delta because they are mad about that thing that happened 27 years ago that Delta did to them.

Zealots on the other side who have drank so much blue Delta kool-aid over the years that the company could probably literally screw them and they’d happily take it.

Everyone gets angry and nobody changes their minds. Gotta love the internet.

Anyway, it was more than likely the most reasonable solution to a terrible logistical problem. For those of you making snide comments about diversions, would you rather the flight continued and killed the passenger/flown the airplane in an unsafe condition? Or would you of rather overnighted in POS where Delta doesn’t have a presence and likely couldn’t have taken care of your needs as well as an online station?

Since you’re so smart, what was the better solution? I’m sure the pilots, flight attendants, the dispatcher, etc. would LOVE to hear it!

Surprised to learn that one of the ex-Gulf Air ships is still in use at Delta. Thought they'd retired that subfleet?

catiii wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Impressive operational arrangement indeed. Similar to how they flew the last flight out of SJU before the hurricane hit last time.

A more impressive operation is, you know, not having to divert...

OK, but who has that? Stuff breaks sometimes. That’s true even for carriers like DL with solid m/x. Heck, I’ve diverted on WN BNA-MDW because the airport was closed due to a disabled aircraft on the runway. That’s not apples-to-apples here, of course, but the idea that diversions mean that the operation has problems isn’t true.

Cubsrule wrote:

catiii wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

Impressive operational arrangement indeed. Similar to how they flew the last flight out of SJU before the hurricane hit last time.

A more impressive operation is, you know, not having to divert...

OK, but who has that? Stuff breaks sometimes. That’s true even for carriers like DL with solid m/x. Heck, I’ve diverted on WN BNA-MDW because the airport was closed due to a disabled aircraft on the runway. That’s not apples-to-apples here, of course, but the idea that diversions mean that the operation has problems isn’t true.

Listen I’m with you. Mechanicals happen. But let’s not pretend like a double divert to recover is such an impressive “operational arrangement.” Nor is it remotely similar to them cutting it close going into SJU ahead of a storm.

catiii wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Impressive operational arrangement indeed. Similar to how they flew the last flight out of SJU before the hurricane hit last time.

A more impressive operation is, you know, not having to divert...

Perhaps you would, you know, share any industry competitive metrics you may have with regard to rates of mechanical diversions, mechanical air turn backs, and cancellations due to mechanicals?

catiii wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

catiii wrote:

A more impressive operation is, you know, not having to divert...

OK, but who has that? Stuff breaks sometimes. That’s true even for carriers like DL with solid m/x. Heck, I’ve diverted on WN BNA-MDW because the airport was closed due to a disabled aircraft on the runway. That’s not apples-to-apples here, of course, but the idea that diversions mean that the operation has problems isn’t true.

Listen I’m with you. Mechanicals happen. But let’s not pretend like a double divert to recover is such an impressive “operational arrangement.” Nor is it remotely similar to them cutting it close going into SJU ahead of a storm.

Agreed with your second sentence. But for me, moving the airplane from a “desperation diversion” airport - one that is in a country where DL has no presence and some passengers may not be admissible - to an online station in the country of destination, is a win (albeit not a big win) for passengers.

KFTG wrote:

Surprised to learn that one of the ex-Gulf Air ships is still in use at Delta. Thought they'd retired that subfleet?

Two have left for freighter conversion (1501,1503), but the other four keep on flying.

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Except this is not what happened. Plane left SJU after several hours on the ground to arrive in ATL 12hrs late.

So not really any logistics needed

CriticalPoint wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Except this is not what happened. Plane left SJU after several hours on the ground to arrive in ATL 12hrs late.

So not really any logistics needed

It left two hours after the new crew arrived in SJU. They scheduled the plane to leave 1 hour after the first flight of the day from ATL arrived, but took a delay.

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

CriticalPoint wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

The double diversion is actually quite impressive. They had a diversion to Trinidad. They likely didn’t have the crew duty time to get to ATL. Instead of spending 24 hours in a Trinidad, they were able to dispatch short to SJU to use the remaining crew duty time. In SJU they could meet up with a new crew deadheaded in from ATL on the first flight of the day. Not all airlines and crews are able to do that since it is logistically quite complicated.

Except this is not what happened. Plane left SJU after several hours on the ground to arrive in ATL 12hrs late.

So not really any logistics needed

It left two hours after the new crew arrived in SJU. They scheduled the plane to leave 1 hour after the first flight of the day from ATL arrived, but took a delay.

Why did they take a delay in SJU?

catiii wrote:

evanb wrote:

bnatraveler wrote:

I flew down on DL61/28DEC ATL-GIG and booked back on AA. It looks like it was a good idea in the end (despite the markedly lower level of inflight service from AA in J), as it seems like N154DL is also plowing the skies on the return last night - but diverted to POS and now SJU. Anyone know what is going on with that ship?

https://FlightAware.com/live/flight/N154DL

First diversion likely medical. Crew running short of time due to time on the ground at POS. Delta likely positioned new crew to SJU to take over flight. Alternative was cancelling and putting everyone in hotels at POS until crew achieved sufficient rest.

It was a mechanical. Have a colleague onboard. As of an hour ago they did not have a plan to recover but were working on one.

Yeah no, this was a medical diversion. I'm looking right at the flight remarks.

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

It left two hours after the new crew arrived in SJU. They scheduled the plane to leave 1 hour after the first flight of the day from ATL arrived, but took a delay.

It should be mentioned that the first flight of the day from ATL was scheduled to arrive about two hours after the plane would be landing in SJU. So in total they were on the ground there about four hours.

The result is that the recovery for this flight was nothing special. It wasn't going the extra mile, as no new flights were created nor was the new crew expedited to SJU. This was the cheapest/slowest option that didn't leave the PAX stranded. Any airline worth their salt would have matched or even beaten this effort.

777Mech wrote:

Yeah no, this was a medical diversion. I'm looking right at the flight remarks.

Well, for that to be true, it means multiple people aren't telling the truth online.

Almost five hours on the ground would be an unusually long time for a medical situation.

MSPNWA wrote:

Almost five hours on the ground would be an unusually long time for a medical situation.

Could have been both. Divert for medical and then something breaks on the ground. Or it could even be as simple as having to re stock the O2 and EMK and dealing with finding 3rd party mtc to sign the logbook who are qualified and approved by DL/FAA.

MSPNWA wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

The result is that the recovery for this flight was nothing special. It wasn't going the extra mile, as no new flights were created nor was the new crew expedited to SJU. This was the cheapest/slowest option that didn't leave the PAX stranded. Any airline worth their salt would have matched or even beaten this effort.

Perhaps it is true that any airline worth their salt would have done this, but unfortunately there are very few airlines worth their salt.

Also, perhaps it is becoming more common now, but you have to remember that Delta pretty much invented the in-route crew refresh technique earlier this decade as part of their cancelling cancellations crusade.

In my experience, other airlines are still good about refreshing crews at hubs if they are able to make it to one (e.g., I had a recent crew refresh in JFK when flying to CLT on AA from LHR), but not as good at doing outstation intercepts like what happened at SJU.

I don't think taking a 12 hour delay is worth patting Delta on the back about, but let's not pretend that most other airlines wouldn't have taken a longer one. I am confident that most airlines would have overnighted at POS and taken a 24+ delay.

I am not a fanboy and I have a lot of gripes about Delta, but I fly 300K miles a year butt-in-seat and their operational reliability - and what they do to get you home - is unparalleled. Their completion factor speaks to that.

ethernal wrote:

MSPNWA wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

The result is that the recovery for this flight was nothing special. It wasn't going the extra mile, as no new flights were created nor was the new crew expedited to SJU. This was the cheapest/slowest option that didn't leave the PAX stranded. Any airline worth their salt would have matched or even beaten this effort.

I don't think taking a 12 hour delay is worth patting Delta on the back about, but let's not pretend that most other airlines wouldn't have taken a longer one. I am confident that most airlines would have overnighted at POS and taken a 24+ delay.

Hard to say. POS in particular would have given either AA or UA an easier time as they both fly there. Depending on time of day and amount of notice, they might have been able to get a new crew onto their flights down to Trinidad and thus skipped the SJU stop. It seems DL did decently given the circumstances.

YYZatcboy wrote:

MSPNWA wrote:

Almost five hours on the ground would be an unusually long time for a medical situation.

Could have been both. Divert for medical and then something breaks on the ground. Or it could even be as simple as having to re stock the O2 and EMK and dealing with finding 3rd party mtc to sign the logbook who are qualified and approved by DL/FAA.

This ^ Had several medical diversions into CLE when i was there where we took significant delays and/or had to aircraft swap due to not having the appropriate amount of oxygen bottles available on board. Being an outstation for WN sometimes we’d have to wait 2+ hours for the next flight to come in to swap them. Also being an outstation we had to use contract mx and we were definitely NOT at the top of their priority list. In fact we took a 4+ hour delay just to get a tire changed.

Avherald reports that the captain told passengers it was a generator failure

https://avherald.com/h?article=4d17d775&opt=0

mrpippy wrote:

Avherald reports that the captain told passengers it was a generator failure

https://avherald.com/h?article=4d17d775&opt=0

This frankly makes the most sense. Flight turned west and rapidly dropped altitude towards the target diversion airport immediately upon entering open water. Perhaps they were running their overwater checklist and caught it then.

777Mech wrote:

Yeah no, this was a medical diversion. I'm looking right at the flight remarks.

Multiple media outlets reporting generator failure. Why post something that is incorrect when the correct story can be so easily verified?

https://simpleflying.com/delta-767-generator-failure/

https://www.aeroinside.com/item/14223/d ... or-failure

In this case, does the new crew comprise only the pilots? Or did new FAs also take over in SJU? I only ask because I’ve been aware of Delta FAs afraid to call in fatigued since they are non union.