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zkojq
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:33 am

So which are the ten A340-600s which could be reactivated?
First to fly the 787-9
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:40 am

the million dollar question, how many routes are going to go :(
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eamondzhang
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:50 am

eightcone wrote:
There is a photo on instagram if you search #747lufthansa of D-ABYF a B748 parked without any engines on it. Seems abnormal for storage? Anyone know a good reason it’s like this or is something more sinister afoot?

Quite normal to remove the engine and preserve it elsewhere especially if the plane is not coming back anytime soon.

Michael
 
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JLGordon
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:55 am

eamondzhang wrote:
eightcone wrote:
There is a photo on instagram if you search #747lufthansa of D-ABYF a B748 parked without any engines on it. Seems abnormal for storage? Anyone know a good reason it’s like this or is something more sinister afoot?

Quite normal to remove the engine and preserve it elsewhere especially if the plane is not coming back anytime soon.

Michael



I was told that the removal has to do with the contract that Lufti has with GE. They would have to pay for the Engines, if they would be installed, but not operated. So the removed them and put them in some sort of storage. A simple way to prevent cash out.
 
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JLGordon
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:56 am

But another question: I heard a rumor, that D-ABVP will leave LH because they found a buyer for it. Anyone with insights of whom that might be?
 
TC957
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:42 am

JLGordon wrote:
But another question: I heard a rumor, that D-ABVP will leave LH because they found a buyer for it. Anyone with insights of whom that might be?

A scrap company ?
 
deltatrav
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:05 pm

Does anyone know when the A343's, 346's and 744's are actually ending service this year?
 
LHA320
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:27 pm

deltatrav wrote:
Does anyone know when the A343's, 346's and 744's are actually ending service this year?


The A343s will not leave the fleet this year. The 744 are already done, with the A346 only returning if a speedy recovery of the demand will occur. I personally doubt that this will happen, so I would suggest 744 and A346 not returning!
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777luver
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:48 pm

LHA320 wrote:
deltatrav wrote:
Does anyone know when the A343's, 346's and 744's are actually ending service this year?


The A343s will not leave the fleet this year. The 744 are already done, with the A346 only returning if a speedy recovery of the demand will occur. I personally doubt that this will happen, so I would suggest 744 and A346 not returning!


That’s great news for the 343s. Is there a source for that statement? (If possible)
Last edited by 777luver on Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Qantas744er
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:49 pm

eightcone wrote:
There is a photo on instagram if you search #747lufthansa of D-ABYF a B748 parked without any engines on it. Seems abnormal for storage? Anyone know a good reason it’s like this or is something more sinister afoot?


All four of -YF’s engines have been busy powering -YC since it exited storage on June 3.

-YA/C/D had C-checks performed year, -YF was due for its C-check sometime this year, which has now been put on ice (due to current reduced demand for the -8 fleet).

The engines are rotated between airframes as needed.
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na
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:07 pm

Can someone please provide the flight hour/Cycle records of the existing 744 fleet?
 
deltatrav
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:34 pm

Anyone know if/how we can fly these remaining birds before they're retired/stored? (if any)?
 
LHA320
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:34 pm

777luver wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
deltatrav wrote:
Does anyone know when the A343's, 346's and 744's are actually ending service this year?


The A343s will not leave the fleet this year. The 744 are already done, with the A346 only returning if a speedy recovery of the demand will occur. I personally doubt that this will happen, so I would suggest 744 and A346 not returning!


That’s great news for the 343s. Is there a source for that statement? (If possible)


Just look at the fleet and where the different types are based. FRA will be left with the A333, A343 and 748 at the end of the year, MUC will see a mix of A333 and A359. With some (maybe 5 or so) A333 going back to MUC, don't expect A359 in FRA because LH isn't in the position to introduce a new type with all the costs connected to it at the FRA base and there are not enough A359 on property rtn. The remaining 10 A333 will be used on flights like DXB, JFK etc. The 748 on trunk routes like LAX, EZE etc. So what aircraft will cover the routes which are too long for the A333 and don't justify the capacity of a 748? Guess what, the A343!
These aircraft are paid off and while we all agree that their days are numbered, I see the final one leave in 2022/2023. 2 are currently undergoing maintenance in MLA, so maybe you will see some frames go, but not the whole fleet. D-AIGL for example is one of the candidates, because it was due to retire last year, but was kept because 4 LH A333 were transferred to EW/SN.
Last edited by LHA320 on Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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LHA320
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:36 pm

deltatrav wrote:
Anyone know if/how we can fly these remaining birds before they're retired/stored? (if any)?


Like I said, no chance for the 744 and the A346. The A343 can be flown to MIA, HKG, BKK, HND for example. But I doubt that you want to travel for fun in the current environment or if you are allowed into these countries for that reason!
AB6 - A319 - A320 - A321 - A333 - A388 - AT42 - 733 - 734 - 735 - 73H - 738 - 752 - 753 - 763 - 772 - DC10 - MD83
 
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CarbonFibre
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:18 am

As well as the cockpit mask, the EU flag has been added to the latest neo deliveries.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:37 am

I think WK will keep their A343s so you will be able to fly that type for a few more years from ZRH. Not right now but if holiday travel returns so will the A343.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:02 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
As well as the cockpit mask, the EU flag has been added to the latest neo deliveries.

Interesting, German registration regulations do not require nor expect an EU flag.
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(5) Deutsche Luftfahrzeuge haben das Staatszugehörigkeitszeichen und eine besondere Kennzeichnung zu führen.

German aircraft shall bear the distinctive nationality mark and a specific identification.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:01 pm

LHA320 wrote:
Like I said, no chance for the 744 and the A346.

Looks like the situation is changing for the 744.

Andreas Spaeth tweets:

@lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr clarifies now: "We will phase out our 14 #Boeing747-400 as planned only by the middle of the decade." 747-8 will stay in the fleet #avgeek

Ref: https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 7599156224

I guess in the case of the A346, it loses because it's a small sub fleet.
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LHA320
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:21 pm

Revelation wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
Like I said, no chance for the 744 and the A346.

Looks like the situation is changing for the 744.

Andreas Spaeth tweets:

@lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr clarifies now: "We will phase out our 14 #Boeing747-400 as planned only by the middle of the decade." 747-8 will stay in the fleet #avgeek

Ref: https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 7599156224

I guess in the case of the A346, it loses because it's a small sub fleet.


While this sounds nice and I would really want it to be true, the reality is quite different. The A380 and A346 were not officially phased out too. Like in every other unionized german company, wording is very important, because jobs at LH are linked to the fleet size and fleet types. One 744 represents a lot of jobs, as do the A346 and the A380. To publicly phase them out now and the official write off of 744 related investments (like the recent gear swap between D-ABVM and D-ABVP) would not help in negotiations. What surprises me (and many colleagues at LH too) is that he talks about 14 744 while the 6 should have been phased out in the summer. Don't know what's the deal behind this statement.
Conclusion: Like the A346 and the A380, the 744 will only come back if demand will rise again quicker than anticipated. Personally I don't expect it, so in my opinion the A346, the A380 and the 744 are done in the long term.
AB6 - A319 - A320 - A321 - A333 - A388 - AT42 - 733 - 734 - 735 - 73H - 738 - 752 - 753 - 763 - 772 - DC10 - MD83
 
mxaxai
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:27 pm

mxaxai wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:

Some more key points:
  • Additional redundancies beyond the 22,000 positions agreed on in the second restructuring package.

Reportedly, Spohr wants to reduce by 1,100 Lufthansa pilots, and 27,000 employees overall. That's up from 500 LH pilots and 22,000 total redundancies earlier announced. The cabin crew in particular are upset due to massive cuts at Germanwings and Sunexpress beyond what they had agreed to in July. No comment from the pilot union yet. https://www.airliners.de/spohr-erlaubni ... flug/57540 [German]

Spohr is also hoping to resume regular transatlantic travel later this year by mandating COVID tests prior to departure. These are supposed to avoid entry restrictions and quarantine regulations. Whether the tests will be paid by passengers directly, or by LH group, remains to be decided.
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:11 pm

With all of this news regarding fleet reductions especially at FRA, and considering that it is unlikely to see A359s at FRA in the short term, when is LH expected to actually start axing destinations? Most of their pre-Covid longhaul schedule is bookable towards the end of this year and next year as well.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:26 pm

CPS001 wrote:
With all of this news regarding fleet reductions especially at FRA, and considering that it is unlikely to see A359s at FRA in the short term, when is LH expected to actually start axing destinations? Most of their pre-Covid longhaul schedule is bookable towards the end of this year and next year as well.

On this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1450987&p=22435693#p22435693 (that was moved to Travel, Polls and Preferences despite discussing only current traffic numbers and schedules.)
There's a graphic illustrating how short-term all airlines are announcing their cuts.
factsonly wrote:
Here is a graph showing the regular schedule changes in Europe due to COVID.

Airlines keep their originally planned schedule published for a period of six months ahead, but adjust the schedule downwards several weeks ahead of operations.

It indicates that Winter 2020 schedules will still be adjusted significantly downwards.

Source: with thanks to CAPA - Centre for Aviation

Image

For full article:

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... ise-538076

You can see how the official schedule is only adjusted 2-6 weeks in advance. For example, airlines still had almost their entire pre-COVID schedule filed as soon as mid-October if you checked the timetable on August 31. So in terms of permanent route axing, you probably won't see that before summer season 2021. Also remember that good slots are valuable at many European airports, so officially cancelling a route means that a competitor can secure these slots. Many routes aren't actually served but you'll still find them in the October or November schedule.
 
777luver
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:37 am

Question regarding other airlines in the LH Group, do they make their own fleet decisions or does LH decide for them? For example, Swiss with their A340 fleet, do they make their own decisions regarding this fleet or does LH as they are the majority stakeholder?
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:07 am

Nothing brand new but Spohr made some comments regarding the B748 and B744 fleet at the virtual World Aviation Festival yesterday. Quote translated from a german article at aero.de:

Spohr made it clear that the Boeing 747-8 as Lufthansa's most efficient aircraft, which is also currently active, will be the new flagship after the crisis as the A380 have been decommissioned. "We love to operate the 747-8, also because it has a much higher cargo capacity than the A380," said Spohr.

The 14 older, still existing Boeing 747-400s should also continue to fly as planned for the time being and only be phased out over the next few years until the middle of the decade.



Source: https://www.aero.de/news-37049/Wie-Lufthansa-aus-der-Krise-kommen-will.html
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:54 am

DABYT wrote:
Nothing brand new but Spohr made some comments regarding the B748 and B744 fleet at the virtual World Aviation Festival yesterday. Quote translated from a german article at aero.de:

Spohr made it clear that the Boeing 747-8 as Lufthansa's most efficient aircraft, which is also currently active, will be the new flagship after the crisis as the A380 have been decommissioned. "We love to operate the 747-8, also because it has a much higher cargo capacity than the A380," said Spohr.

The 14 older, still existing Boeing 747-400s should also continue to fly as planned for the time being and only be phased out over the next few years until the middle of the decade.



Source: https://www.aero.de/news-37049/Wie-Lufthansa-aus-der-Krise-kommen-will.html


Hard to believe that the -8 is LHs most efficient aircraft. Most efficient quad maybe.
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B787 Lufthansa et swiss upadate

Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:51 pm

Hello
I would like to have news for the B787-9 for LH and SWISS are there photos?

Are they going to be leaving the factory soon or are they in production?

thanks
i love air transat and fan all boeing
 
VSMUT
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Re: B787 Lufthansa et swiss upadate

Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:54 pm

It is still 2 years away. First delivery in 2022. It isn't confirmed if they are even going to Swiss.
 
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DABYT
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Re: B787 Lufthansa et swiss upadate

Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:03 pm

The only pictures available are the renderings from LH’s press release:

Image

Image

Credits: Lufthansa Group
Last edited by DABYT on Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
asuflyer
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Re: B787 Lufthansa et swiss upadate

Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:05 pm

It is unclear at the moment. It was previously speculated that part of the 787s are going to LX as replacements for the A330's there was no plan to refresh the LX A330 cabins which are getting old and tired but nothing is confirmed and LH Group fleet plans have changed. OS is the least profitable and LH has stated they need to improve their performance before they receive new aircraft, they have been only taking used aircraft for years now.
 
mxaxai
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Re: B787 Lufthansa et swiss upadate

Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:24 pm

asuflyer wrote:
It is unclear at the moment. It was previously speculated that part of the 787s are going to LX as replacements for the A330's there was no plan to refresh the LX A330 cabins which are getting old and tired but nothing is confirmed and LH Group fleet plans have changed. OS is the least profitable and LH has stated they need to improve their performance before they receive new aircraft, they have been only taking used aircraft for years now.

On the other hand, OS has admitted that their 763 and 77E are at the end of their useful life. LH has guaranteed to maintain OS long haul services, so it's quite likely that OS gets some 787.
 
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CPS001
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:19 pm

mxaxai wrote:
CPS001 wrote:
With all of this news regarding fleet reductions especially at FRA, and considering that it is unlikely to see A359s at FRA in the short term, when is LH expected to actually start axing destinations? Most of their pre-Covid longhaul schedule is bookable towards the end of this year and next year as well.

On this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1450987&p=22435693#p22435693 (that was moved to Travel, Polls and Preferences despite discussing only current traffic numbers and schedules.)
There's a graphic illustrating how short-term all airlines are announcing their cuts.
factsonly wrote:
Here is a graph showing the regular schedule changes in Europe due to COVID.

Airlines keep their originally planned schedule published for a period of six months ahead, but adjust the schedule downwards several weeks ahead of operations.

It indicates that Winter 2020 schedules will still be adjusted significantly downwards.

Source: with thanks to CAPA - Centre for Aviation

Image

For full article:

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... ise-538076

You can see how the official schedule is only adjusted 2-6 weeks in advance. For example, airlines still had almost their entire pre-COVID schedule filed as soon as mid-October if you checked the timetable on August 31. So in terms of permanent route axing, you probably won't see that before summer season 2021. Also remember that good slots are valuable at many European airports, so officially cancelling a route means that a competitor can secure these slots. Many routes aren't actually served but you'll still find them in the October or November schedule.


Thanks for your response. I am actually waiting on booking a longhaul roundtrip in W20, but looking at the 2-6 week advance period I am in a bit of a dilemma whether to wait it out or book and hope the itinerary sticks.

On a related note, one of my gripes with LH was that despite announcing that they were getting rid of CityLine's longhaul ops months ago, such flights were still on sale in August. While us avgeeks would know better and not book these flights, how is a layman expected to know that?
 
danipawa
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:04 pm

its time to pick up the NTU B748 at the desert....number 20
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:54 pm

danipawa wrote:
its time to pick up the NTU B748 at the desert....number 20

Was that 1435? If LH did not take it up back then as an early iteration presumably nothing has changed to make it more desireable now?
 
Noshow
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:02 pm

It has more flight hours than were originally expected. This is why it's maintenance schedule would not fit the maintenance schedules of the rest of the LH 747-8 fleet and this is why LH has abandoned this specific prototype airframe. It will make for some excellent BCF and will not end up in the desert.
 
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redcap1962
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:24 am

DABYT wrote:
The 14 older, still existing Boeing 747-400s should also continue to fly as planned for the time being and only be phased out over the next few years until the middle of the decade.[/b][/i]

Source: https://www.aero.de/news-37049/Wie-Lufthansa-aus-der-Krise-kommen-will.html


There are only 13 B744's left. Some are "stored" at ENS. Usually planes do not return from there and will be scrapped.
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Revelation
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:37 pm

LHA320 wrote:
While this sounds nice and I would really want it to be true, the reality is quite different. The A380 and A346 were not officially phased out too. Like in every other unionized german company, wording is very important, because jobs at LH are linked to the fleet size and fleet types. One 744 represents a lot of jobs, as do the A346 and the A380. To publicly phase them out now and the official write off of 744 related investments (like the recent gear swap between D-ABVM and D-ABVP) would not help in negotiations. What surprises me (and many colleagues at LH too) is that he talks about 14 744 while the 6 should have been phased out in the summer. Don't know what's the deal behind this statement.
Conclusion: Like the A346 and the A380, the 744 will only come back if demand will rise again quicker than anticipated. Personally I don't expect it, so in my opinion the A346, the A380 and the 744 are done in the long term.

Thanks for the helpful comments. It's something that I would not have picked up on otherwise.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
LHA320
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:13 pm

Revelation wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
While this sounds nice and I would really want it to be true, the reality is quite different. The A380 and A346 were not officially phased out too. Like in every other unionized german company, wording is very important, because jobs at LH are linked to the fleet size and fleet types. One 744 represents a lot of jobs, as do the A346 and the A380. To publicly phase them out now and the official write off of 744 related investments (like the recent gear swap between D-ABVM and D-ABVP) would not help in negotiations. What surprises me (and many colleagues at LH too) is that he talks about 14 744 while the 6 should have been phased out in the summer. Don't know what's the deal behind this statement.
Conclusion: Like the A346 and the A380, the 744 will only come back if demand will rise again quicker than anticipated. Personally I don't expect it, so in my opinion the A346, the A380 and the 744 are done in the long term.

Thanks for the helpful comments. It's something that I would not have picked up on otherwise.


You're welcome, but please consider that these are subjects which could change over the next few months. Long term plans at LH currently feature 3 possible scenarios, rating from good to bad in terms of the return of demand. The 744 could have it's place in one of these scenarios, which I personally doubt.
The 744 has the biggest Y capacity in the whole LH fleet when the A388 will be parked permanently. The scenario where it could work (which I like to call the Transaero scenario): Vaccine is available by December, leisure demand picks up quickly, Florida opens up to foreign citizens and the allowance of Quick tests before departure. Then you could see the 4 744s stored in FRA and HAM return to duty. In Germany we would call this aircraft "Touristen Bomber" ;)
But, like I said, I don't believe that this could happen...
AB6 - A319 - A320 - A321 - A333 - A388 - AT42 - 733 - 734 - 735 - 73H - 738 - 752 - 753 - 763 - 772 - DC10 - MD83
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:03 pm

CPS001 wrote:

On a related note, one of my gripes with LH was that despite announcing that they were getting rid of CityLine's longhaul ops months ago, such flights were still on sale in August. While us avgeeks would know better and not book these flights, how is a layman expected to know that?


What exactly is your gripes about? The passenger is absolutely not able to distinguish between a Cityline or Mainline flight. The Aircraft is the standard A340, the cabin and the service standard mainline.
Enslave yourself to the divine disguised as salvation
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aristoenigma
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:08 pm

Noshow wrote:
It has more flight hours than were originally expected. This is why it's maintenance schedule would not fit the maintenance schedules of the rest of the LH 747-8 fleet and this is why LH has abandoned this specific prototype airframe. It will make for some excellent BCF and will not end up in the desert.

How does that work? Would a bargain price not counterbalance the cost of a maintenance that is out of sync with the rest of the fleet? Or is the lack of synchronicity permanent and even an extra maintenace will never fix the scheduling? TIA for explanation.
 
777luver
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:11 pm

Question regarding other airlines in the LH Group, do they make their own fleet decisions or does LH decide for them? For example, Swiss with their A340 fleet, do they make their own decisions regarding this fleet or does LH as they are the majority stakeholder?
 
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CPS001
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:11 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
CPS001 wrote:

On a related note, one of my gripes with LH was that despite announcing that they were getting rid of CityLine's longhaul ops months ago, such flights were still on sale in August. While us avgeeks would know better and not book these flights, how is a layman expected to know that?


What exactly is your gripes about? The passenger is absolutely not able to distinguish between a Cityline or Mainline flight. The Aircraft is the standard A340, the cabin and the service standard mainline.


Sorry, should have been clearer. Nothing against CityLine, rather my point was that LH hadn't bothered to remove CityLine's flights from its booking engine until several weeks after the announcement that CityLine longhaul would be immediately terminated. Yes airlines around the world continue to schedule flights they probably won't operate, but here was an entire subsidiary that was being disbanded, still selling tickets. Since it's the entire subsidiary there is uncertainty whether or not LH or affiliates will step in to operate the routes.
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:39 pm

CPS001 wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:
CPS001 wrote:

On a related note, one of my gripes with LH was that despite announcing that they were getting rid of CityLine's longhaul ops months ago, such flights were still on sale in August. While us avgeeks would know better and not book these flights, how is a layman expected to know that?


What exactly is your gripes about? The passenger is absolutely not able to distinguish between a Cityline or Mainline flight. The Aircraft is the standard A340, the cabin and the service standard mainline.


Sorry, should have been clearer. Nothing against CityLine, rather my point was that LH hadn't bothered to remove CityLine's flights from its booking engine until several weeks after the announcement that CityLine longhaul would be immediately terminated. Yes airlines around the world continue to schedule flights they probably won't operate, but here was an entire subsidiary that was being disbanded, still selling tickets. Since it's the entire subsidiary there is uncertainty whether or not LH or affiliates will step in to operate the routes.


That might be a misunderstanding on your part. LH Cityline is very mich alive. Arguably more alive than the mainline as flying the smaller aircraft in the group happens to be quite beneficial at the moment.

Cityline simply quit putting pilots on a few of the 340s, all the continental Europe flying is still very much happening.
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:51 pm

LHA320 wrote:
You're welcome, but please consider that these are subjects which could change over the next few months. Long term plans at LH currently feature 3 possible scenarios, rating from good to bad in terms of the return of demand. The 744 could have it's place in one of these scenarios, which I personally doubt.
The 744 has the biggest Y capacity in the whole LH fleet ...

Please consider this could change over the next several months.

Management made dec.s concerning fleet structure, write-offs and investment, i.e. hard ware, i.e. paths in floor space and available payload. Cabin configs are very easily adapted in a grossly altered market.

Re your fantasy on Florida: The Atlantic market is in upheaval, and does not look like a swift return even w/o CoViD. Lufthansa is quite wise to hedge their T7-slots in keeping their 744 in shape for now. G*d knows what happens in winter - Lufthansa risk management does not.
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:21 pm

787X30 wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
You're welcome, but please consider that these are subjects which could change over the next few months. Long term plans at LH currently feature 3 possible scenarios, rating from good to bad in terms of the return of demand. The 744 could have it's place in one of these scenarios, which I personally doubt.
The 744 has the biggest Y capacity in the whole LH fleet ...

Please consider this could change over the next several months.

Management made dec.s concerning fleet structure, write-offs and investment, i.e. hard ware, i.e. paths in floor space and available payload. Cabin configs are very easily adapted in a grossly altered market.

Re your fantasy on Florida: The Atlantic market is in upheaval, and does not look like a swift return even w/o CoViD. Lufthansa is quite wise to hedge their T7-slots in keeping their 744 in shape for now. G*d knows what happens in winter - Lufthansa risk management does not.


That's why I said I don't believe it would happen, I just said that it would be the only possibility you could catch a revenue 744 flight with LH in the future. But if you talk about cabin configs which are easily adapted, please consider the costs of doing so while having a aircraft on ground, for which the airline has a) an existing pilot pool without additional costs b) enough green time on engines, gear and airframe (believe me, the 4 aircraft in question have that) and c) no additional capital invested by flying them. So if my noted scenario takes place, which again I DO NOT believe, LH would not start to reconfigure some A340s or 748s with a higher Y configuration, while having a working aircraft with an existing, suitable config sitting on the ground.
LH risk management clearly doesn't know what happens this winter, nobody knows! But you have to be prepared for all possible scenarios for the time being. And trust me, LH is! Just quitting to make plans won't help much either, there is just too much at stake.
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Re: B787 Lufthansa et swiss upadate

Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:02 am

mxaxai wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
It is unclear at the moment. It was previously speculated that part of the 787s are going to LX as replacements for the A330's there was no plan to refresh the LX A330 cabins which are getting old and tired but nothing is confirmed and LH Group fleet plans have changed. OS is the least profitable and LH has stated they need to improve their performance before they receive new aircraft, they have been only taking used aircraft for years now.

On the other hand, OS has admitted that their 763 and 77E are at the end of their useful life. LH has guaranteed to maintain OS long haul services, so it's quite likely that OS gets some 787.


There were actually plans in place to update the cabins of the A333's of LX in combination with adding Premium Economy Class in 2022, was mentioned in one of the quarterly financial reports. Obviously those plans have been scraped and LH still plans to take delivery of all the aircraft it originally ordered eventually. I doubt the Dreamliner will fly with LX, really wouldn't fit into the fleet. Given that LX has sent most of it's A333's to the Jordanian dessert for long term storage and some rumours even say they will never fly again for LX I could see rather the following picture. The Dreamliners will go to OS and LH, possibly even SN and the A350's will be used to replace / increae capacity once demand picks up over the next years at LX to also replace the A343's and A333's eventually also at Edelweiss. If things will go into the right direction in the very long run maybe we will see LX getting the A351 to replace the B77W's.
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:04 am

Our booked flights to HKG from FRA in November have been changed from a 747-8 to 340-300. Not that I am complaining but this suggests that the 340-300 will be here until at least the end of this year. Understandably, the 747-8 is a much bigger aircraft and the 340-300 is not a bad plane for all the cargo. I heard that the loads in HKG (passengers) is still pretty low...
 
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Revelation
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:09 pm

Somewhat different comments in FlightGlobal from Spohr re: 748's position in the fleet:

Speaking on 25 September during the virtual World Aviation Festival, Lufthansa Group chief executive Carsten Spohr said the airline had also accelerated the phasing-out of 14 ageing 747-400s, moving the timeframe forward to 2025 from the end of the decade. But he says the 747-8s will remain in service to serve as “our flagship… after the crisis”.

He says “we love to operate” the 747-8 and describes the four-engined jet as “the most efficient aircraft” in Lufthansa’s fleet.

Ref: https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/luf ... 47.article

Maybe he means "economically efficient" i.e. they are premium heavy and used on routes that can get the premium, and can also haul cargo at the same time?
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:23 pm

Revelation wrote:
Somewhat different comments in FlightGlobal from Spohr re: 748's position in the fleet:

Speaking on 25 September during the virtual World Aviation Festival, Lufthansa Group chief executive Carsten Spohr said the airline had also accelerated the phasing-out of 14 ageing 747-400s, moving the timeframe forward to 2025 from the end of the decade. But he says the 747-8s will remain in service to serve as “our flagship… after the crisis”.

He says “we love to operate” the 747-8 and describes the four-engined jet as “the most efficient aircraft” in Lufthansa’s fleet.

Ref: https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/luf ... 47.article

Maybe he means "economically efficient" i.e. they are premium heavy and used on routes that can get the premium, and can also haul cargo at the same time?


Why different? Isn’t that exactly what I quoted in post #225?
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:01 am

Revelation wrote:
Somewhat different comments in FlightGlobal from Spohr re: 748's position in the fleet:

Speaking on 25 September during the virtual World Aviation Festival, Lufthansa Group chief executive Carsten Spohr said the airline had also accelerated the phasing-out of 14 ageing 747-400s, moving the timeframe forward to 2025 from the end of the decade. But he says the 747-8s will remain in service to serve as “our flagship… after the crisis”.

He says “we love to operate” the 747-8 and describes the four-engined jet as “the most efficient aircraft” in Lufthansa’s fleet.

Ref: https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/luf ... 47.article

Maybe he means "economically efficient" i.e. they are premium heavy and used on routes that can get the premium, and can also haul cargo at the same time?


So how come they seem to be implying that the 744 still has a future at LH but aren't doing the same for the A380?
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mzlin
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:46 am

Revelation wrote:
Somewhat different comments in FlightGlobal from Spohr re: 748's position in the fleet:

Speaking on 25 September during the virtual World Aviation Festival, Lufthansa Group chief executive Carsten Spohr said the airline had also accelerated the phasing-out of 14 ageing 747-400s, moving the timeframe forward to 2025 from the end of the decade. But he says the 747-8s will remain in service to serve as “our flagship… after the crisis”.

He says “we love to operate” the 747-8 and describes the four-engined jet as “the most efficient aircraft” in Lufthansa’s fleet.

Ref: https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/luf ... 47.article

Maybe he means "economically efficient" i.e. they are premium heavy and used on routes that can get the premium, and can also haul cargo at the same time?


I'd guess he means most economically efficient as well, which would mean most profitable in some way, e.g. the most profit vs costs compared to using alternative aircraft on those same routes

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