FlyingHonu001 wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

According to this, five of Lufthansa's 747-400s will be scrapped by a Texas-based company: https://www.aerotelegraph.com/in-den-us ... 0-verkauft

Are these flying to Texas or somewhere else in the states?

The five aircraft have been sold to GE Materials which has a facility in the DFW area. Does anyone know if these 747s are going to fly to somewhere near DFW for scrapping? I can't think of any airport around DFW that has scrapping capabilities?

These 744's are not going anywhere, due to EHTW safety permits Source: https://www.aviation24.be/airports/twen ... lands/amp/

It seems they knew from the start these 744's would only be allowed to land and never take off again. The first two even landed without the correct permits in place!
Source (sorry, Dutch only): https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/categorie/3/airports/inspectie-roept-twente-airport-met-dreiging-van-dwangsom-tot-de-orde

Good news. The 744's are able to leave. They have to be as light as possible (low fuel) to be able to take off, and it is a one time license only.
Source (in Dutch only): https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/categorie/3/airports/akkoord-bereikt-lufthansa-747s-mogen-toch-vertrekken-vanaf-twente-airport

D-AINZ has a special livery/sticker celebrating BER opening.

zkojq wrote:

D-AINZ has a special livery/sticker celebrating BER opening.

Yes, it’s “Hauptstadtflieger”:



Picture: Reuters

DABYT wrote:

zkojq wrote:

D-AINZ has a special livery/sticker celebrating BER opening.

Yes, it’s “Hauptstadtflieger”:



Picture: Reuters

Hmm, didn't come out for me. Changed format to 'jpg' and got:



Ref: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/image/sz.1. ... format=jpg

Some of LH‘s A359 now moving from MUC to FRA and DAIXD and -E are flying first Time today from Frankfurt airport to FRA-ORD and FRA-LAX. DAIXP is just shuttling MUC-FRA.

AirbusOnly wrote:

Some of LH‘s A359 now moving from MUC to FRA and DAIXD and -E are flying first Time today from Frankfurt airport to FRA-ORD and FRA-LAX. DAIXP is just shuttling MUC-FRA.

Maybe to replace the A340s? Sounds like they’ll be retired soon

777luver wrote:

AirbusOnly wrote:

Some of LH‘s A359 now moving from MUC to FRA and DAIXD and -E are flying first Time today from Frankfurt airport to FRA-ORD and FRA-LAX. DAIXP is just shuttling MUC-FRA.

Maybe to replace the A340s? Sounds like they’ll be retired soon

I think the following from July is still accurate:

While Lufthansa has the largest fleet, their A340s will be replaced by Airbus A350s and Boeing 787s. According to Wikipedia, the German carrier will have 45 A350-900s when deliveries end. For now, 15 have been delivered with another 30 on order and will trickle in until 2027 to replace Airbus A340-600s. Lufthansa will replace their A340-300 fleet with the smaller Boeing 787-9s. Deliveries of the 787-9 are to begin in 2022 and may be spread out across the entire Lufthansa Group which also includes SWISS and Austrian.

Ref: https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a340-retirement/

So A350s are expected to replace A340-600, and other reports tell us all A340-600 are parked and not likely to return unless recovery happens significantly faster than planned. A340-300 will eventually be replaced by 787-9 so probably not retired till 2022 or later.

Revelation wrote:

777luver wrote:

AirbusOnly wrote:

Some of LH‘s A359 now moving from MUC to FRA and DAIXD and -E are flying first Time today from Frankfurt airport to FRA-ORD and FRA-LAX. DAIXP is just shuttling MUC-FRA.

Maybe to replace the A340s? Sounds like they’ll be retired soon

I think the following from July is still accurate:

While Lufthansa has the largest fleet, their A340s will be replaced by Airbus A350s and Boeing 787s. According to Wikipedia, the German carrier will have 45 A350-900s when deliveries end. For now, 15 have been delivered with another 30 on order and will trickle in until 2027 to replace Airbus A340-600s. Lufthansa will replace their A340-300 fleet with the smaller Boeing 787-9s. Deliveries of the 787-9 are to begin in 2022 and may be spread out across the entire Lufthansa Group which also includes SWISS and Austrian.

Ref: https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a340-retirement/

So A350s are expected to replace A340-600, and other reports tell us all A340-600 are parked and not likely to return unless recovery happens significantly faster than planned. A340-300 will eventually be replaced by 787-9 so probably not retired till 2022 or later.

The current A350 deployment to FRA is planned temporarily for the winter flight plan. This covers a total of 5 aircraft. These replace A340s and 748s for this time span, which you can see currently as the 748 fleet was reduced to 7 active aircraft (used to be 9). The A343 fleet sees more flying this week than in any other week since the beginning of COVID as 3 frames are scheduled for cargo flights. The A333 remains the backbone of the fleet.
The newest plan however is to move 4 additional A350 to FRA starting in spring which is, as far as I understand it, not a temporary measure.
There used to be some discussion about used 789s next year, which was only discussed in some forum on the internet, but I haven't heard anything about it for a few weeks now...

LHA320 wrote:

Revelation wrote:

777luver wrote:

Maybe to replace the A340s? Sounds like they’ll be retired soon

I think the following from July is still accurate:

While Lufthansa has the largest fleet, their A340s will be replaced by Airbus A350s and Boeing 787s. According to Wikipedia, the German carrier will have 45 A350-900s when deliveries end. For now, 15 have been delivered with another 30 on order and will trickle in until 2027 to replace Airbus A340-600s. Lufthansa will replace their A340-300 fleet with the smaller Boeing 787-9s. Deliveries of the 787-9 are to begin in 2022 and may be spread out across the entire Lufthansa Group which also includes SWISS and Austrian.

Ref: https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a340-retirement/

So A350s are expected to replace A340-600, and other reports tell us all A340-600 are parked and not likely to return unless recovery happens significantly faster than planned. A340-300 will eventually be replaced by 787-9 so probably not retired till 2022 or later.

The current A350 deployment to FRA is planned temporarily for the winter flight plan. This covers a total of 5 aircraft. These replace A340s and 748s for this time span, which you can see currently as the 748 fleet was reduced to 7 active aircraft (used to be 9). The A343 fleet sees more flying this week than in any other week since the beginning of COVID as 3 frames are scheduled for cargo flights. The A333 remains the backbone of the fleet.
The newest plan however is to move 4 additional A350 to FRA starting in spring which is, as far as I understand it, not a temporary measure.
There used to be some discussion about used 789s next year, which was only discussed in some forum on the internet, but I haven't heard anything about it for a few weeks now...

Thanks for this info. So the A350 will replace the A340s this winter, doesn’t bode well for the 340 fleet.

777luver wrote:

LHA320 wrote:

Revelation wrote:

I think the following from July is still accurate:


Ref: https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a340-retirement/

So A350s are expected to replace A340-600, and other reports tell us all A340-600 are parked and not likely to return unless recovery happens significantly faster than planned. A340-300 will eventually be replaced by 787-9 so probably not retired till 2022 or later.

The current A350 deployment to FRA is planned temporarily for the winter flight plan. This covers a total of 5 aircraft. These replace A340s and 748s for this time span, which you can see currently as the 748 fleet was reduced to 7 active aircraft (used to be 9). The A343 fleet sees more flying this week than in any other week since the beginning of COVID as 3 frames are scheduled for cargo flights. The A333 remains the backbone of the fleet.
The newest plan however is to move 4 additional A350 to FRA starting in spring which is, as far as I understand it, not a temporary measure.
There used to be some discussion about used 789s next year, which was only discussed in some forum on the internet, but I haven't heard anything about it for a few weeks now...

Thanks for this info. So the A350 will replace the A340s this winter, doesn’t bode well for the 340 fleet.

I have the impression that the A340 was mainly used due to the ability to lift lots of cargo over a long distance - can anyone on the forum quantify whether the A350 is even more able to do this?

musapapaya wrote:

I have the impression that the A340 was mainly used due to the ability to lift lots of cargo over a long distance - can anyone on the forum quantify whether the A350 is even more able to do this?

The A350-900 outperforms the A340-300 and, for Lufthansa, the A340-600 and 747-400 as well. Regarding payload weight, all of these listed here can perform all of LH's routes without major restrictions, unlike the A330.

A343: 32x LD3
A346: 30x LD3
A359: 36x LD3
744: 30x LD3
748: 38x LD3

https://lufthansa-cargo.com/fleet-ulds/ ... elly-fleet

Good afternoon everyone

On the grapevine and rumours from several of my friends high up at OS.

It is strongly rumoured that OS will receive the first 8 787-9’s which were ordered by the LH group. These will be delivered in 2023.

They will be delivered in 3-class configuration, 31J, 32Y+ and 235Y. The engines will be supplied by GE.

Feel free to discuss below, but my guess would be that the first routes will be EWR & ORD.

OMAA

If they come from LH's order then those frames should be powered by RR (?)

Y+ ? Not W??

Makes sense. The oldest 767s are pushing 30 already and even most 777s will be over 20 by then.

Antaras wrote:

If they come from LH's order then those frames should be powered by RR (?)

Indeed. What's going on?

RvA wrote:

Y+ ? Not W??

Nor sure there is a clear distinction in Europe. Economy Plus or Premium Economy... same difference. I know in the US there is...

That would actually make a lot of sense and would fleet wise be exactly the number of WB that OS needs, as they were struggling on some long haul markets before C19.

PM wrote:

Antaras wrote:

If they come from LH's order then those frames should be powered by RR (?)

Indeed. What's going on?

Well it is just a rumor.

Westerwaelder wrote:

RvA wrote:

Y+ ? Not W??

Nor sure there is a clear distinction in Europe. Economy Plus or Premium Economy... same difference. I know in the US there is...

W = premium economy, more space, different seat and service to economy

Y+ = extra legroom economy like exit row or certain bulkhead etc.

That is my understanding, irrespective of geography? You don’t see W on intra Europe generally, often aircraft that have it flying within Europe for X reason are not selling W as such, at this moment.

My apologies, I always thought Y+ was Premium Economy.

But the aircraft will have Business, Premium Economy and Economy.

Who I was told by said that they would be fitted with GEnx engines, unless something has changed from the past, due to the T1000 issues?

OMAA

RvA wrote:

Westerwaelder wrote:

RvA wrote:

Y+ ? Not W??

Nor sure there is a clear distinction in Europe. Economy Plus or Premium Economy... same difference. I know in the US there is...

W = premium economy, more space, different seat and service to economy

Y+ = extra legroom economy like exit row or certain bulkhead etc.

That is my understanding, irrespective of geography? You don’t see W on intra Europe generally, often aircraft that have it flying within Europe for X reason are not selling W as such, at this moment.

Yes, that is correct. What I am saying is that outside of geeky aviation world both terms are often used interchangeably.

Westerwaelder wrote:

RvA wrote:

Westerwaelder wrote:

Nor sure there is a clear distinction in Europe. Economy Plus or Premium Economy... same difference. I know in the US there is...

W = premium economy, more space, different seat and service to economy

Y+ = extra legroom economy like exit row or certain bulkhead etc.

That is my understanding, irrespective of geography? You don’t see W on intra Europe generally, often aircraft that have it flying within Europe for X reason are not selling W as such, at this moment.

Yes, that is correct. What I am saying is that outside of geeky aviation world both terms are often used interchangeably.

Gotcha, it’s why I stay in my world I suppose

As of today around 1630 local time, D-ABVP stretching her wings once again and left EHTW by LH9871 for FR. One down, several to go...

Source: https://youtu.be/6TNX7_nD5rc

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

As of today around 1630 local time, D-ABVP stretching her wings once again and left EHTW by LH9871 for FR. One down, several to go...

Source: https://youtu.be/6TNX7_nD5rc

On way to Bangor NOW....https://www.flightradar24.com/DLH9872/25f37977

Does anyone know what happens to the plane? Sold, continued storage?

AirbusOnly wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

As of today around 1630 local time, D-ABVP stretching her wings once again and left EHTW by LH9871 for FR. One down, several to go...

Source: https://youtu.be/6TNX7_nD5rc

On way to Bangor NOW....https://www.flightradar24.com/DLH9872/25f37977

Does anyone know what happens to the plane? Sold, continued storage?

Sold to GE Aviation for dismantling and recycling

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

As of today around 1630 local time, D-ABVP stretching her wings once again and left EHTW by LH9871 for FR. One down, several to go...

Source: https://youtu.be/6TNX7_nD5rc

Now that's an airport that doesn't see a lot of 747 take-offs normally Amazing and unique footage!

Sad that she's now flown to her final resting place, but it's nice that one of her very last flights was a truly unique one!

Anyone know how many hours/cycles the LH 747-400s had at their retirement date?

Swiss says it will "temporarily withdraw its 28 older Airbus A320 family aircraft for the winter timetable period”, with short- and medium-range winter schedules operated solely by the Airbus A220, A320neo and A321neo.

That's really all of its 320/321ceos, is it not? Most of which are 21-26 years old. Say bye bye.

it's all of them, personally I expect only, -JLP/Q/R/S/T + -ION/O back after winter. The others are done and will be replaced by NEO's.

zkojq wrote:

Anyone know how many hours/cycles the LH 747-400s had at their retirement date?

I do not have access to this data anymore, but the older ones like D-ABVP (which today is as old as the retirement age of the first batch of 744s which were sent off around 2013/2014) should be approaching 120.000 flight hours, the youngest ones close to 100.000.

DALCE wrote:

it's all of them, personally I expect only, -JLP/Q/R/S/T + -ION/O back after winter. The others are done and will be replaced by NEO's.

And maybe HB-IOM as it's also pretty new.

DABVP on it’s very last flight to Mojave now:
https://fr24.com/DLH9872/25f67be6
RIP old fellow

With its third-quarter results Lufthansa management assumes A380 fleet will be retired permanently.

“Based on current fleet planning and the resolutions taken by the management boards, the assumption is that five Boeing B747s, eight Airbus A380s, 17 Airbus A340s and eleven Airbus A320s, five owned Airbus A319s and another ten leased Airbus A319s at Lufthansa German Airlines… will be retired permanently.”

https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-a380 ... ssumption/

mercure1 wrote:

With its third-quarter results Lufthansa management assumes A380 fleet will be retired permanently.

“Based on current fleet planning and the resolutions taken by the management boards, the assumption is that five Boeing B747s, eight Airbus A380s, 17 Airbus A340s and eleven Airbus A320s, five owned Airbus A319s and another ten leased Airbus A319s at Lufthansa German Airlines… will be retired permanently.”

https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-a380 ... ssumption/

That’s a bit confusing. Are they sure it’s not just 2 more A380s being retired on top of the six retired A380s?

If these are additional retirements, the five 747 retirements (likely -400) would bring the 747-400 fleet to just 2-3 aircraft... why would they want to maintain such a small subfleet? Besides, didn’t Lufthansa already announce the retirement of five 747-400s? Are they sure it’s not referring to the previous announcement with the addition of two more A380s and seven A340s?

Ishrion wrote:

mercure1 wrote:

With its third-quarter results Lufthansa management assumes A380 fleet will be retired permanently.

“Based on current fleet planning and the resolutions taken by the management boards, the assumption is that five Boeing B747s, eight Airbus A380s, 17 Airbus A340s and eleven Airbus A320s, five owned Airbus A319s and another ten leased Airbus A319s at Lufthansa German Airlines… will be retired permanently.”

https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-a380 ... ssumption/

That’s a bit confusing. Are they sure it’s not just 2 more A380s being retired on top of the six retired A380s?

Go Lufthansa's 3rd Interim Report report itself:

The medium-term fleet planning now provides for a
lasting capacity reduction of 150 aircraft across the
Group from the middle of the decade; it will mostly be
long-haul aircraft that are retired early; this includes
the complete sub-fleets of the Airbus A380 and
A340-600, which are to be transferred to long-term
parking mode or permanently taken out of service.

https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... ports.html

They give no timeline as to when the A340s will be retired. If they are removed from the winter planning I’d assume they won’t see any flying come spring.

mercure1 wrote:

With its third-quarter results Lufthansa management assumes A380 fleet will be retired permanently.

“Based on current fleet planning and the resolutions taken by the management boards, the assumption is that five Boeing B747s, eight Airbus A380s, 17 Airbus A340s and eleven Airbus A320s, five owned Airbus A319s and another ten leased Airbus A319s at Lufthansa German Airlines… will be retired permanently.”

https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-a380 ... ssumption/

Are these A320s mentioned already phased out or there'll be another 11 to be phased out? And D-AIQD (which was sent to LDE in July) is the 12th, so will it fly again or is to be phased out completely?

Interesting to see how the whole Lufthansa group is struggling to fill planes these days while their Star partner Turkish Airlines flights are mostly full. Flew Istanbul to Vienna three days ago and the flight was full. Also, TK will fly to 198 destinations as of November (received their newsletter tonight), quite a number considering the situation.

fil87 wrote:

Interesting to see how the whole Lufthansa group is struggling to fill planes these days while their Star partner Turkish Airlines flights are mostly full. Flew Istanbul to Vienna three days ago and the flight was full. Also, TK will fly to 198 destinations as of November (received their newsletter tonight), quite a number considering the situation.

Turkish cut international ASKs by about 2/3 in September and still saw a 15-point drop in load factor. Look for the October report in a few days. If you're generalizing from a single flight I don't even know where to start.

MIflyer12 wrote:

fil87 wrote:

Interesting to see how the whole Lufthansa group is struggling to fill planes these days while their Star partner Turkish Airlines flights are mostly full. Flew Istanbul to Vienna three days ago and the flight was full. Also, TK will fly to 198 destinations as of November (received their newsletter tonight), quite a number considering the situation.

Turkish cut international ASKs by about 2/3 in September and still saw a 15-point drop in load factor. Look for the October report in a few days. If you're generalizing from a single flight I don't even know where to start.

Could be man. I can tell Istanbul airport was very busy when I was there 4 days ago. Also, they just posted a less-than-expected $112M Q3 loss on COVID-19

https://www.google.it/amp/s/www.dailysa ... vid-19/amp

Lufthansa increases Frankfurt - Sao Paulo to daily flights in December with Airbus A350-900 replacing Boeing 747-8i
Are more A359 added to FRA?

fil87 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

fil87 wrote:

Interesting to see how the whole Lufthansa group is struggling to fill planes these days while their Star partner Turkish Airlines flights are mostly full. Flew Istanbul to Vienna three days ago and the flight was full. Also, TK will fly to 198 destinations as of November (received their newsletter tonight), quite a number considering the situation.

Turkish cut international ASKs by about 2/3 in September and still saw a 15-point drop in load factor. Look for the October report in a few days. If you're generalizing from a single flight I don't even know where to start.

Could be man. I can tell Istanbul airport was very busy when I was there 4 days ago. Also, they just posted a less-than-expected $112M Q3 loss on COVID-19

https://www.google.it/amp/s/www.dailysa ... vid-19/amp

This is because the Turkish authorities are unfortunately extremely careless when testing for covid on arriving and departing passengers and the mask requirement in TK aircraft is not taken very seriously. if you want to get infected with COVID-19 quickly, you should fly with TK. I am very happy I have survived the flight from Istanbul to Hamburg without infection, but two colleagues are now in quarantine and are considering suing TK!

RainerBoeing777 wrote:

Lufthansa increases Frankfurt - Sao Paulo to daily flights in December with Airbus A350-900 replacing Boeing 747-8i
Are more A359 added to FRA?

It was reported on a thread (either this one or another one) that LH is moving additional A350s to Frankfurt. I believe it was another four aircraft. They are also suspending some long-haul flights out of MUC so I guess that's where this extra capacity will come from. I believe they are cutting Washington and Tokyo from Munich.

AirbusOnly wrote:

fil87 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Turkish cut international ASKs by about 2/3 in September and still saw a 15-point drop in load factor. Look for the October report in a few days. If you're generalizing from a single flight I don't even know where to start.

Could be man. I can tell Istanbul airport was very busy when I was there 4 days ago. Also, they just posted a less-than-expected $112M Q3 loss on COVID-19

https://www.google.it/amp/s/www.dailysa ... vid-19/amp

This is because the Turkish authorities are unfortunately extremely careless when testing for covid on arriving and departing passengers and the mask requirement in TK aircraft is not taken very seriously. if you want to get infected with COVID-19 quickly, you should fly with TK. I am very happy I have survived the flight from Istanbul to Hamburg without infection, but two colleagues are now in quarantine and are considering suing TK!

You are being overly dramatic. Turkey has just taken a similar model to the one Sweden had, that is one where you don't paralyze your economy because of covid. As for your colleagues, I doubt there is any ground for them to sue TK. They willingly booked flights with them and they knew that Turkey was relaxed when it came to preventive measures.

Blerg wrote:

AirbusOnly wrote:

fil87 wrote:

Could be man. I can tell Istanbul airport was very busy when I was there 4 days ago. Also, they just posted a less-than-expected $112M Q3 loss on COVID-19

https://www.google.it/amp/s/www.dailysa ... vid-19/amp

This is because the Turkish authorities are unfortunately extremely careless when testing for covid on arriving and departing passengers and the mask requirement in TK aircraft is not taken very seriously. if you want to get infected with COVID-19 quickly, you should fly with TK. I am very happy I have survived the flight from Istanbul to Hamburg without infection, but two colleagues are now in quarantine and are considering suing TK!

You are being overly dramatic. Turkey has just taken a similar model to the one Sweden had, that is one where you don't paralyze your economy because of covid. As for your colleagues, I doubt there is any ground for them to sue TK. They willingly booked flights with them and they knew that Turkey was relaxed when it came to preventive measures.

Not to mention that on all Turkish Airlines flights I took recently, the mandatory use of mask on board was heavily enforced by the crew (and I could see all passengers wearing it). This is in line with their new hygiene-based marketing strategy.

In its investor update, Lufthansa says it continues with “Ocean” project. Will have its own AOC in 2021 with a fleet of "around" eight aircraft.

Also noticed its separate longhaul LCC concept (similar to Edelweiss) is called "Purple Moon"

Sorry if this has already been addressed in this thread and I missed it, but: If airlines are so swiftly phasing out their 4-engine aircraft (A380, B747), then why is LH hanging onto their A340 fleet for so long ?

What I'm further asking is: What are the chances that they'll pull their A340s by the end of this year ?

Thanks in advance.