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gdavis003
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:36 am

gdavis003 wrote:
N3764D headed BHM-QRO tomorrow. Had been at BHM for quite some time (not a COVID park). Last time I saw it there, looked like the engines were in a state of disrepair so interesting to see it will be airborne tomorrow.

There’s a picture of it included on this tweet: https://twitter.com/patthomasnews/statu ... 57216?s=21


EDIT: looks like this ferry has been moved to Wednesday.
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:15 am

Looks like tomorrow, both 3775 will exit QRO to DTW https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n775de and 5806 to ATL https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n586nw
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:13 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
In this market, WN and AA would be silly to sell even their oldest 737NG.


You can say it's silly, and the transactions may have been negotiated pre-covid, but planespotters.net shows nine ex-WN 737-700s having gone to United, including some that entered service fresh from Boeing as recently as 2005.

AA had been talking about 738 retirements for a while and then delayed due to MAX groundings. This isn't the oldest reference: https://onemileatatime.com/american-air ... -737-a330/

Thanks for the kink. With older aircraft dropping in value, could this be lease returns for AA?

pre-Covid19, I agree not silly. Fuel was pricier and the aircraft sold for more. It was a more balanced market. Today aircraft are trading almost at fire sale pricing.

But if expensive leases can be avoided...

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:22 am

gdavis003 wrote:
N3764D headed BHM-QRO tomorrow. Had been at BHM for quite some time (not a COVID park). Last time I saw it there, looked like the engines were in a state of disrepair so interesting to see it will be airborne tomorrow.

There’s a picture of it included on this tweet: https://twitter.com/patthomasnews/statu ... 57216?s=21


Because the engines weren't even on them to start.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:53 pm

B753:
N586NW 5806 scheduled to leave heavy maintenace QRO-ATL today or tomorrow; now will have 13 of 16 753s reactivated
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9960

A319:
N319NB 3119 scheduled to leave storage SBD-SLC on Wed 9/16; will be 42 of 57 A319 reactivated
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9962
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:13 pm

3165 has exited SAL enroute to DTW today and looks set to RTS by 9/17 (at time of this post): https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n365nb
3775 just arrived from QRO @ DTW: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n775de
3764 ferry to QRO cancelled. Will see if it gets put back on the books.
5809 ferried to ATL-QRO yesterday: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/N589nw
DL9961 tomorrow shows a "75T" ex-QRO. Haven't seen that designator before: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9961
 
UA748i
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The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:37 pm

Not sure if this has been discussed, but Ill give it a go.

DL is phasing out their 737-700s. A quick scan on FlightAware shows that only two are active, 5 are at ATL and 3 are in San Bernardino.

Given that these frames are not exceptionally old, what will become of them? Perhaps to WN?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:45 pm

Scheduled DL 73G passenger service ended last week after Labor Day.
The only 73G flying in the past week has been military charters.

Nothing publically announced about their fate.

I believe they may be coming due for an HMV which may ultimately factor in to if/when/how where they go next.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:51 pm

UA748i wrote:
Perhaps to WN?


That would be a logical transaction but I don't know if engines and perf pack are identical to what WN runs.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:53 pm

They aren’t very old and they are configured with max thrust and carbon brakes for high performance. These are the planes that were bought for airports like Key West. I believe there will be an airline interested in these high performance plane for high altitude or short runways.
 
Newark727
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:57 pm

Would the higher thrust configuration have offer any advantage in converting them to freighters? Not many 737-700 freighters around, but there are a few, and these are relatively new.
 
strfyr51
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:04 am

UA748i wrote:
Not sure if this has been discussed, but Ill give it a go.

DL is phasing out their 737-700s. A quick scan on FlightAware shows that only two are active, 5 are at ATL and 3 are in San Bernardino.

Given that these frames are not exceptionally old, what will become of them? Perhaps to WN?

At this point? I'd doubt it. they might be better for night freight.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:11 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Scheduled DL 73G passenger service ended last week after Labor Day.
The only 73G flying in the past week has been military charters.

Nothing publically announced about their fate.

I believe they may be coming due for an HMV which may ultimately factor in to if/when/how where they go next.


The DL B73G's are a bit "hot rodded" with their CFM56-7B26 engines producing 26,300 lbs. thrust, while WN's latest B73G's had the lower, 24,200 lbs. thrust CFM56-7B14's. I also think the DL B73G's have improved brakes to deal with short field ops. I don't know if these traits will make DL's B73G's any more, or less attractive on the resale market. However, if they are coming up on HMV, perhaps they will be sitting in the desert for quite a while.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:21 am

Given the CGM56-7B26, I think UA will want to get their hands on them. Question is funding.
 
Chele737
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:29 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Scheduled DL 73G passenger service ended last week after Labor Day.
The only 73G flying in the past week has been military charters.

Nothing publically announced about their fate.

I believe they may be coming due for an HMV which may ultimately factor in to if/when/how where they go next.


The DL B73G's are a bit "hot rodded" with their CFM56-7B26 engines producing 26,300 lbs. thrust, while WN's latest B73G's had the lower, 24,200 lbs. thrust CFM56-7B14's. I also think the DL B73G's have improved brakes to deal with short field ops. I don't know if these traits will make DL's B73G's any more, or less attractive on the resale market. However, if they are coming up on HMV, perhaps they will be sitting in the desert for quite a while.


TGU was one of DL destinations used 73G. DL closed operations to TGU because lack of appropriate equipment and will return until Palmerola Airport enters into service. Just for general knowledge :)
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:39 am

Here’s a question for all the armchair hotrodders: will increasing thrust necessarily allow operations off shorter runways? Does thrust=shorter take-off field required?
 
Flaps
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:57 am

There might be a couple of Canadian operators that could have an interest.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:14 am

Chele737 wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Scheduled DL 73G passenger service ended last week after Labor Day.
The only 73G flying in the past week has been military charters.

Nothing publically announced about their fate.

I believe they may be coming due for an HMV which may ultimately factor in to if/when/how where they go next.


The DL B73G's are a bit "hot rodded" with their CFM56-7B26 engines producing 26,300 lbs. thrust, while WN's latest B73G's had the lower, 24,200 lbs. thrust CFM56-7B14's. I also think the DL B73G's have improved brakes to deal with short field ops. I don't know if these traits will make DL's B73G's any more, or less attractive on the resale market. However, if they are coming up on HMV, perhaps they will be sitting in the desert for quite a while.


TGU was one of DL destinations used 73G. DL closed operations to TGU because lack of appropriate equipment and will return until Palmerola Airport enters into service. Just for general knowledge :)


DL's ops on the ATL-EYW (Key West) route have switched over from B73G's to A319's. AA uses A319's on the MIA-TGU route, which makes me wonder why DL doesn't do the same for ATL-TGU?
 
xdlx
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:14 am

I thought Copa wanted some or all
 
DylanHarvey
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:15 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
Chele737 wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:

The DL B73G's are a bit "hot rodded" with their CFM56-7B26 engines producing 26,300 lbs. thrust, while WN's latest B73G's had the lower, 24,200 lbs. thrust CFM56-7B14's. I also think the DL B73G's have improved brakes to deal with short field ops. I don't know if these traits will make DL's B73G's any more, or less attractive on the resale market. However, if they are coming up on HMV, perhaps they will be sitting in the desert for quite a while.


TGU was one of DL destinations used 73G. DL closed operations to TGU because lack of appropriate equipment and will return until Palmerola Airport enters into service. Just for general knowledge :)


DL's ops on the ATL-EYW (Key West) route have switched over from B73G's to A319's. AA uses A319's on the MIA-TGU route, which makes me wonder why DL doesn't do the same for ATL-TGU?

AA A319-115 is hotrodded too, they have 27k engines and sharklets.
 
A320B737NGCapt
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:16 am

Wasn’t Boeing looking to source a couple of good condition second hand 73G for the Royal Air Force for conversion to AWE&C E-7 Wedgetail?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:22 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Here’s a question for all the armchair hotrodders: will increasing thrust necessarily allow operations off shorter runways? Does thrust=shorter take-off field required?


Higher rate of acceleration = achieving take-off speed in a shorter distance.
 
dcajet
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:40 am

xdlx wrote:
I thought Copa wanted some or all


COPA is early-retiring its own 73G

https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SL4N2CP483
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: The Fate of DLs 73Gs?

Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:00 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
The DL B73G's are a bit "hot rodded" with their CFM56-7B26 engines producing 26,300 lbs. thrust, while WN's latest B73G's had the lower, 24,200 lbs. thrust CFM56-7B14's. I also think the DL B73G's have improved brakes to deal with short field ops. I don't know if these traits will make DL's B73G's any more, or less attractive on the resale market. However, if they are coming up on HMV, perhaps they will be sitting in the desert for quite a while.


The DL 73Gs are also equipped with the “ High Altitude Airport Operations System” for South American ops described here:

http://www.b737.org.uk/pressurisation.htm#reduced-cabin-alt-sys
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
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STT757
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:43 pm

The US Navy should grab the 73Gs and convert them to C-40s, they previously acquired used DC-9s from airlines and converted them to C-9s. The Navy's current fleet of C-40s, 17, is less than the 27 C-9s the Navy operated until 2014.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:03 am

Mon 9/21 B752 QRO-DTW 699 N699DL (75D) (storage & maintenance exit)
Tue 9/22 B753 QRO-ATL 5805 N585NW (storage & maintenance exit)
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:49 pm

A few more updates as things are being scheduled for the week, lots like a relatively big week for aircraft ferries associated to reactivation, maintenance/mod exits, retirements, and deliveries.
This only takes us out to Wed, I'm sure more will be schedule for Thu & Fri.

Mon 9/21 B752 QRO-DTW 699 N699DL (75D) (storage & maintenance exit)

Wed 9/23 A320 SAL-MSP 3278 N378NW (maintenance exit, stored at SBD 4/8-ferried SBD-SAL on 8/8, youngest A320 in the fleet)
Wed 9/23 B739 VCV-ATL 3827 N827DN (storage exit)
Wed 9/23 B753 QRO-ATL 5805 N585NW (storage & maintenance exit)

Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3601 N301DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-BYH 3602 N302DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/24 B73G ATL-MZJ 3603 N303DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/24 B73G MSP-MZJ 3604 N304DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/24 B73G ATL-MZJ 3607 N306DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/24 B73G ATL-MZJ 3608 N308DQ (retirement/storage)
(3605, 3607, 3609, 3610 previously stored at SBD)
 
jbs2886
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:30 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3601 N301DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-BYH 3602 N302DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/24 B73G ATL-MZJ 3603 N303DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/24 B73G MSP-MZJ 3604 N304DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/24 B73G ATL-MZJ 3607 N306DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/24 B73G ATL-MZJ 3608 N308DQ (retirement/storage)
(3605, 3607, 3609, 3610 previously stored at SBD)


I wonder why the one is going to BYH?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:47 am

Missed one for tomorrow:
Tue 9/22 A320 SBD-MSP 3240 N340NW (storage exit)
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:59 pm

Revised updates for the week as of Tuesday morning:

Mon 9/21 B752 QRO-DTW 699 N699DL (75D) (storage & maintenance exit)

Tue 9/22 A320 SBD-MSP 3240 N340NW (storage exit)
Tue 9/23 B753 QRO-ATL 5805 N585NW (storage & maintenance exit)

Wed 9/23 A320 SAL-MSP 3278 N378NW (maintenance exit, stored at SBD 4/8-ferried SBD-SAL on 8/8, youngest A320 in the fleet)
Wed 9/23 B739 VCV-ATL 3827 N827DN (storage exit)

Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3601 N301DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-BYH 3602 N302DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3603 N303DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G MSP-MZJ 3604 N304DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3607 N306DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3608 N308DQ (retirement/storage)
(3605, 3607, 3609, 3610 previously stored at SBD)
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:33 pm

Things are very fluid this week....with stuff being scheduled all over the place:

New delivery A321 N105DX scheduled BFM-MSP for Thursday.

Actual:
Mon 9/21 B752 QRO-DTW 699 N699DL (75D) (storage & maintenance exit)
Tue 9/22 A320 SBD-MSP 3240 N340NW (storage exit)

Planned:
Wed 9/23 A320 SAL-MSP 3278 N378NW (maintenance exit, stored at SBD 4/8-ferried SBD-SAL on 8/8, youngest A320 in the fleet)
Wed 9/23 B739 VCV-ATL 3827 N827DN (storage exit)
Wed 9/23 B738 BHM-QRO 3764 N3764D (storage exit, to maintenance)
Wed 9/23 B753 QRO-ATL 5805 N585NW (storage & maintenance exit)

Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3601 N301DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-BYH 3602 N302DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3603 N303DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G MSP-MZJ 3604 N304DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3607 N306DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3608 N308DQ (retirement/storage)
(3605, 3607, 3609, 3610 previously stored at SBD)

Thu 9/23 A321 BFM-MSP 1005 N105DX (new delivery)
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:21 pm

Yesterday was officially the last day for the 73G. The final 6 were all flown out to storage for indefinite purgatory.
Probably the most unnoticed subfleet retirement, possibly ever. I think even when the 737-300s were retired they got more attention.

New delivery A321 1005 N105DX scheduled today BFM-MSP.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N105DX

As I posted in the widebody thread, it appears that these few deliveries that were near completion when COVID hit are likely to be part of a sale-leaseback transaction per article below.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... t-year-end
 
timf
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:09 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
As I posted in the widebody thread, it appears that these few deliveries that were near completion when COVID hit are likely to be part of a sale-leaseback transaction per article below.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... t-year-end

It has stood out to me that every aircraft Delta has taken delivery of in the past month is registered to a lessor rather than Delta. So, it looks like that part of the deal is already firmly in place.
 
gdavis003
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:45 pm

Delta will be ferrying 2 VIP 757-200s to BHM tomorrow as DL9961 and DL9962. DL9960 is also listed three times for tomorrow (two are undefined aircraft going ATL-BHM, and one is an A333 leaving storage and going BHM-ATL). Might be more VIP 757-200s heading back into storage. With NBA season winding down, seems like Delta will not be using these for some time.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:49 pm

I wonder how Delta and Airbus will work out the deliveries of 6x A221's and 6x A223's? https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Delta-Air-Lines

At YMX, all 6 A221's are finished and have flown. Considering the "fire sale" prices Delta are paying for A221's, you'd think Delta would try to find a way to finance these and bring them into service.

At BFM, 2 of the 6 A223's are finished and have flown, with the remaining 4 on the production line. Taking these early builds are symbolic because the A220 production line at BFM would not have existed without the Delta order. Airbus may soon be faced with the prospect of suspending the A220 line at BFM for the foreseeable future.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:02 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
I wonder how Delta and Airbus will work out the deliveries of 6x A221's and 6x A223's? https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Delta-Air-Lines

At YMX, all 6 A221's are finished and have flown. Considering the "fire sale" prices Delta are paying for A221's, you'd think Delta would try to find a way to finance these and bring them into service.

At BFM, 2 of the 6 A223's are finished and have flown, with the remaining 4 on the production line. Taking these early builds are symbolic because the A220 production line at BFM would not have existed without the Delta order. Airbus may soon be faced with the prospect of suspending the A220 line at BFM for the foreseeable future.


Apparently, due to the way pilots have been reduced, the A220 has been disproportionately affected (i.e., not enough pilots to fly).
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:09 pm

DL looking at delivery deferrals of 40 jets.

Largest pending backlog are A220 and A321s

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... t-year-end
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:20 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
I wonder how Delta and Airbus will work out the deliveries of 6x A221's and 6x A223's? https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Delta-Air-Lines

At YMX, all 6 A221's are finished and have flown. Considering the "fire sale" prices Delta are paying for A221's, you'd think Delta would try to find a way to finance these and bring them into service.

At BFM, 2 of the 6 A223's are finished and have flown, with the remaining 4 on the production line. Taking these early builds are symbolic because the A220 production line at BFM would not have existed without the Delta order. Airbus may soon be faced with the prospect of suspending the A220 line at BFM for the foreseeable future.


Apparently, due to the way pilots have been reduced, the A220 has been disproportionately affected (i.e., not enough pilots to fly).


Understandable, but odd considering that all 31 of Delta's A221 fleet are currently in service. This is the only Delta aircraft type with none currently parked. But granted, working through the seniority list and having to re-train pilots formerly flying, say old-school MD88's, to FBW/digital A220's probably has their simulators working overtime and that costs money.
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:18 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
Delta will be ferrying 2 VIP 757-200s to BHM tomorrow as DL9961 and DL9962. DL9960 is also listed three times for tomorrow (two are undefined aircraft going ATL-BHM, and one is an A333 leaving storage and going BHM-ATL). Might be more VIP 757-200s heading back into storage. With NBA season winding down, seems like Delta will not be using these for some time.

The 752s are 652 and 662.
Also seeing 3006 with a ferry to MSP later today. Potential RTS after storage in ATL since May.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:27 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
I wonder how Delta and Airbus will work out the deliveries of 6x A221's and 6x A223's? https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Delta-Air-Lines

At YMX, all 6 A221's are finished and have flown. Considering the "fire sale" prices Delta are paying for A221's, you'd think Delta would try to find a way to finance these and bring them into service.

At BFM, 2 of the 6 A223's are finished and have flown, with the remaining 4 on the production line. Taking these early builds are symbolic because the A220 production line at BFM would not have existed without the Delta order. Airbus may soon be faced with the prospect of suspending the A220 line at BFM for the foreseeable future.


Apparently, due to the way pilots have been reduced, the A220 has been disproportionately affected (i.e., not enough pilots to fly).


Understandable, but odd considering that all 31 of Delta's A221 fleet are currently in service. This is the only Delta aircraft type with none currently parked. But granted, working through the seniority list and having to re-train pilots formerly flying, say old-school MD88's, to FBW/digital A220's probably has their simulators working overtime and that costs money.

Because furloughs haven't happened yet. They will start to be parked once people leave till more pilots are trained on them.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:31 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
I wonder how Delta and Airbus will work out the deliveries of 6x A221's and 6x A223's? https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Delta-Air-Lines

At YMX, all 6 A221's are finished and have flown. Considering the "fire sale" prices Delta are paying for A221's, you'd think Delta would try to find a way to finance these and bring them into service.

At BFM, 2 of the 6 A223's are finished and have flown, with the remaining 4 on the production line. Taking these early builds are symbolic because the A220 production line at BFM would not have existed without the Delta order. Airbus may soon be faced with the prospect of suspending the A220 line at BFM for the foreseeable future.


Apparently, due to the way pilots have been reduced, the A220 has been disproportionately affected (i.e., not enough pilots to fly).


Understandable, but odd considering that all 31 of Delta's A221 fleet are currently in service. This is the only Delta aircraft type with none currently parked. But granted, working through the seniority list and having to re-train pilots formerly flying, say old-school MD88's, to FBW/digital A220's probably has their simulators working overtime and that costs money.

Just to clarify, if they were flying a FBW A320 prior to going to the A220, their training footprint is no different than if they were flying an MD-88 prior. In other words, the type of aircraft they were on before is irrelevant when going to a new type.

But to the point, they don’t have the 220 sim capacity to quickly enough do all the required training events that the furloughs/displacements would cause, and there are plans to potentially rent 220 sim time from B6 if need be. But between the possibility of CARES2 and furlough mitigation measures, they may be able to avoid enough/all of the furloughs to keep the 220s flying.
 
n515cr
Posts: 1814
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:49 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:41 pm

1005 is en route to MSP: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n105dx
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8161
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:42 pm

If furloughs were to happen with the numbers previously indicated, DL would end up furloughing something like 75% of the A220 FOs (essentially all of the A220 NYC FOs since its the most junior category in the system. In addition there is displacement on the A220 CA as well. There is not enough training capacity to get enough crews through to support flying the entire fleet. It would be several months to catch-up.

Thus the scenario where not only do they not need the new delivery A220s, they also may have to store current in-service A220s for a period of time.
The rumor was new delivery A220s are going to go to the desert before induction into service.
 
yyztpa2
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 pm

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:11 pm

According to Canadian Government export reporting, Delta already own 5 of the A221 at YMX, though none are yet registered with the FAA. They may even be in possession of 2 of the A223 at BFM but those are not registered either.

None of these will see service until replacement flight crew is available. Storage in the desert, along with some currently in service, would make sense.
 
User avatar
FLALEFTY
Posts: 803
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:58 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
If furloughs were to happen with the numbers previously indicated, DL would end up furloughing something like 75% of the A220 FOs (essentially all of the A220 NYC FOs since its the most junior category in the system. In addition there is displacement on the A220 CA as well. There is not enough training capacity to get enough crews through to support flying the entire fleet. It would be several months to catch-up.

Thus the scenario where not only do they not need the new delivery A220s, they also may have to store current in-service A220s for a period of time.
The rumor was new delivery A220s are going to go to the desert before induction into service.


It will be interesting to see how things play out. However, given the 6 A321's at YMX, would Delta want to leave them in storage there in the harsh Quebec Winter? Or do they bite the bullet, pay the tariffs, take delivery and fly these to VCV or MZJ for storage until they actually can fly them on the line?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8161
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:09 am

Recap / update for the week:

Mon 9/21 B752 QRO-DTW 699 N699DL (75D) (storage & maintenance exit)

Tue 9/22 A320 SBD-MSP 3240 N340NW (storage exit)

Wed 9/23 A320 SAL-MSP 3278 N378NW (maintenance exit, stored at SBD 4/8-ferried SBD-SAL on 8/8, youngest A320 in the fleet)
Wed 9/23 B739 VCV-ATL 3827 N827DN (storage exit)
Wed 9/23 B738 BHM-QRO 3764 N3764D (storage exit, to maintenance)
Wed 9/23 B753 QRO-ATL 5805 N585NW (storage & maintenance exit)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3601 N301DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-BYH 3602 N302DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3603 N303DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G MSP-MZJ 3604 N304DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3607 N306DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3608 N308DQ (retirement/storage)
(3605, 3607, 3609, 3610 previously stored at SBD)

Thu 9/24 A321 BFM-MSP 1005 N105DX (new delivery)
Thu 9/24 B753 ATL-QRO 5808 N588NW (maintenance entrance)

Fri 9/26 B752 ATL-BHM 652 N652DL (75C) (storage)
Fri 9/26 B752 ATL-BHM 662 N662DL (75C) (storage)
Fri 9/26 A321 ATL-MSP 3006 N306DN (storage exit)
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 1044
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:27 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
If furloughs were to happen with the numbers previously indicated, DL would end up furloughing something like 75% of the A220 FOs (essentially all of the A220 NYC FOs since its the most junior category in the system. In addition there is displacement on the A220 CA as well. There is not enough training capacity to get enough crews through to support flying the entire fleet. It would be several months to catch-up.

Thus the scenario where not only do they not need the new delivery A220s, they also may have to store current in-service A220s for a period of time.
The rumor was new delivery A220s are going to go to the desert before induction into service.

For those of us, less intimated to inner workings of displacement/furloughs. Is it possible to let more junior pilots "hang around" a while, while their more senior coworkers get retrained on their equipment? The junior folks would earn their salary (if only for a while), the equipment would get flown -- win-win. Or is it "out of seniority flying", and "breach of contract"?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
yyztpa2
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 pm

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:09 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
If furloughs were to happen with the numbers previously indicated, DL would end up furloughing something like 75% of the A220 FOs (essentially all of the A220 NYC FOs since its the most junior category in the system. In addition there is displacement on the A220 CA as well. There is not enough training capacity to get enough crews through to support flying the entire fleet. It would be several months to catch-up.

Thus the scenario where not only do they not need the new delivery A220s, they also may have to store current in-service A220s for a period of time.
The rumor was new delivery A220s are going to go to the desert before induction into service.


It will be interesting to see how things play out. However, given the 6 A321's at YMX, would Delta want to leave them in storage there in the harsh Quebec Winter? Or do they bite the bullet, pay the tariffs, take delivery and fly these to VCV or MZJ for storage until they actually can fly them on the line?

I didn't tariffs applied to A220
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8284
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:20 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
If furloughs were to happen with the numbers previously indicated, DL would end up furloughing something like 75% of the A220 FOs (essentially all of the A220 NYC FOs since its the most junior category in the system. In addition there is displacement on the A220 CA as well. There is not enough training capacity to get enough crews through to support flying the entire fleet. It would be several months to catch-up.

Thus the scenario where not only do they not need the new delivery A220s, they also may have to store current in-service A220s for a period of time.
The rumor was new delivery A220s are going to go to the desert before induction into service.

For those of us, less intimated to inner workings of displacement/furloughs. Is it possible to let more junior pilots "hang around" a while, while their more senior coworkers get retrained on their equipment? The junior folks would earn their salary (if only for a while), the equipment would get flown -- win-win. Or is it "out of seniority flying", and "breach of contract"?


They can furlough fewer pilots with the goal of keeping enough people trained on A220. They can't keep less senior A220 crew while furloughing more senior crew presently flying other types. That would be out-of-seniority flying. DL's postponement of furloughs from 10/1 to 11/1 gets it a very specific benefit here.

It's not just 'We have x,xxx too many pilots.' Surely they are looking at furloughs and how they would cut away crew bases and types specifically, against the marketing plan of flying xx A220s, for example.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 442
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:24 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
If furloughs were to happen with the numbers previously indicated, DL would end up furloughing something like 75% of the A220 FOs (essentially all of the A220 NYC FOs since its the most junior category in the system. In addition there is displacement on the A220 CA as well. There is not enough training capacity to get enough crews through to support flying the entire fleet. It would be several months to catch-up.

Thus the scenario where not only do they not need the new delivery A220s, they also may have to store current in-service A220s for a period of time.
The rumor was new delivery A220s are going to go to the desert before induction into service.

For those of us, less intimated to inner workings of displacement/furloughs. Is it possible to let more junior pilots "hang around" a while, while their more senior coworkers get retrained on their equipment? The junior folks would earn their salary (if only for a while), the equipment would get flown -- win-win. Or is it "out of seniority flying", and "breach of contract"?


It’s the latter. That’s why furloughing and especially displacement really cost a company a lot of money, and the math has to add up for them to assume they won’t need to bring these folks back anytime in the immediate short term. All of that retraining and reshuffling will happen again on the other side when musical chairs start again, and if that’s not that far away, it doesn’t make economic sense to furlough - clearly, management thinks the timeframe does. We shall see

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