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strfyr51
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:58 pm

I think this is a matter of perspective, The A320's and A319's have commonality to the A321's the MD;s do not! The engines are common to even the 737's in many respects and can be worked in the same shop at Delta. so that reduces training and Parts, The move to keep them is a good move financially, operationally and commonality wise. In short? It's a No Brainer aside from Delta can build all their own engines in house,
 
tnair1974
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:53 am

N649DL wrote:
tnair1974 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
The A320 were recently refurbished nose-to-tail AVOD but most importantly life extension projects. The M90 and M88 didn't receive those projects (for the M90 likely because parts were scarce) but also the A320 is better for "hot and high" destinations (EG: SLC hub) and overall are slightly younger and have better range as well.


Interesting comparison. Even without the pandemic, DL's oldest A320s might have still had had a fair number of cycles and hours remaining upon their eventual retirement; seems rising maintenance costs associated with any older plane were going to dictate phaseout, less so hours/cycles. This is unlike Lufthansa's oldest A320s that have recently been retired; they on average flew shorter hops thus racking up the cycles. These LH birds were close enough to running out of lifetime cycles (even with life extension) that it probably would not have been cost effective to put them through another heavy check.

A major factor in the relatively high number of DL MD-90s being used at MSP had to do with the 90's shorter range. The MD-90 could still reach lots of destinations in the lower 48 from MSP.


There are definitely some ex-NW A320s from the early 1990s that are so likely so cycle heavy that they're past the point of no return. However, NW received A320 deliveries well into the early 2000s so those are perfectly fine for use in the future. Planespotters.net says N310NW to N318NW (7) from 1990-1991 are totally parked for good, so don't expect those to come back to use. That leaves 62 A320s for DL (all of which planespotters says are parked right now) which are 1990 to 2003 deliveries. I would think that the A320s built between 1990 and 1993 are most at risk for retirement, but I have no idea what the logistics are for which A320s are worth redeemable versus ready for retirement.

With regards to the M90s, recall that only 16 of them were legacy DL which means 59 of them are second hand recent acquisitions which had to be hell for them to keep up with maintenance-wise (mostly all from 2nd hand from LCC Asian Carriers.) It has to be a lot easier considering all of the A320s are ex-NW: Meaning Maintenance Best Practices are consistent across the board from Northwest and now have a decade of being well-integrated into Delta's fleet.

The M90s on the other hand have to be all over the place because so many are second hand. I used to fly them a lot connecting in MSP and ATL when I lived in DEN and never had a problem with them though. This was back in 2016-2017.

Although these stats may be a few years dated, N309US (the oldest current DL A320, now nearing 30 years old) was "only" around 40k cycles/90k hours; the current limits for older A320s with the life extension are 60k cycles/120k hours. One other DL A320 (don't recall the registration) that was almost as old had similar cycles/hours. However, turns out some NW aircraft were parked about a decade ago during that recession; N309US was among their planes grounded. But perhaps other NW (now DL) A320s kept flying on a more regular basis so they are closer to their cycle/hour limits. Anybody have handy those DL A320s with the highest cycles/hours? Also, those with most recent heavy checks thus most green time remaining?

I got to fly on a DL MD-90 only once (ATL-SAT, just earlier this year before the pandemic), but was a great flight, quiet, lots of power. I'd never flown on a V2500 powered bird before, as to date all A320s I've been on had CFMs. But in a demonstration of the 90's sometimes cantankerous nature, a previous attempt to go MD-90 resulted in that Mad Dog going tech :roll: and a 738 being used instead. Still glad I got a ride on the 90 although wish I had walked to the back to compare noise levels to MD-80s and DC-9s.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:52 pm

NW didn't really fly their A319 / A320 fleet that "hard". The A320s, the oldest batch from 1989-1993 were primarily used on routes and similar to the 72S, the small and retired MD-80 fleet, and for hub capacity expansion. They did a lot of 1.5-3 hour segments and 4 cycle days. Common flying would be something like BWI-DTW-DEN-DTW-LGA; BOS-MSP-YYC-MSP-BNA. They did a lot of DTW/MSP routes to Florida and essentially mid-cons to the west coast to augment the 757 fleet and/or on routes that didn't need the capacity of the 757. They occasionally might do a short-hop from a RON but then do a longer route on stuff like GRR-DTW-PHX-DTW-MSN. They used the DC-9s for the short cycle, high frequency flying. NW used to have a much shorter operating day what DL had done and didn't have west coast hubs to extract more utilization out of existing aircraft.
A319 did very similar flying to the A320s for NW, they were highly interchangeable, and it wasn't uncommon for routine aircraft swaps as daily loads required. Both had 16F seats so that was nice.

In addition, many of the A320s rotated in and out of storage at various times including post-9/11 (2001-2003), Ch 11 restructuring (2005-2007), and global recession/downturn (2009-2010). They have been a workhorse but they haven't been flown super heavy to where they have been doing 6+ cycle days.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:02 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
NW didn't really fly their A319 / A320 fleet that "hard". The A320s, the oldest batch from 1989-1993 were primarily used on routes and similar to the 72S, the small and retired MD-80 fleet, and for hub capacity expansion. They did a lot of 1.5-3 hour segments and 4 cycle days. Common flying would be something like BWI-DTW-DEN-DTW-LGA; BOS-MSP-YYC-MSP-BNA. They did a lot of DTW/MSP routes to Florida and essentially mid-cons to the west coast to augment the 757 fleet and/or on routes that didn't need the capacity of the 757. They occasionally might do a short-hop from a RON but then do a longer route on stuff like GRR-DTW-PHX-DTW-MSN. They used the DC-9s for the short cycle, high frequency flying. NW used to have a much shorter operating day what DL had done and didn't have west coast hubs to extract more utilization out of existing aircraft.
A319 did very similar flying to the A320s for NW, they were highly interchangeable, and it wasn't uncommon for routine aircraft swaps as daily loads required. Both had 16F seats so that was nice.

In addition, many of the A320s rotated in and out of storage at various times including post-9/11 (2001-2003), Ch 11 restructuring (2005-2007), and global recession/downturn (2009-2010). They have been a workhorse but they haven't been flown super heavy to where they have been doing 6+ cycle days.

N309US had last report 87,589 Flight hours (FH) and 39,983 Flight Cycles (FC)

So plenty of life left. Since A320 have been flown to close to the level of Validity (120,000 FH or 60,000 FC, whichever comes first), I see life.
https://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx

Lightsaber
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a2b7
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:23 pm

lightsaber wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
NW didn't really fly their A319 / A320 fleet that "hard". The A320s, the oldest batch from 1989-1993 were primarily used on routes and similar to the 72S, the small and retired MD-80 fleet, and for hub capacity expansion. They did a lot of 1.5-3 hour segments and 4 cycle days. Common flying would be something like BWI-DTW-DEN-DTW-LGA; BOS-MSP-YYC-MSP-BNA. They did a lot of DTW/MSP routes to Florida and essentially mid-cons to the west coast to augment the 757 fleet and/or on routes that didn't need the capacity of the 757. They occasionally might do a short-hop from a RON but then do a longer route on stuff like GRR-DTW-PHX-DTW-MSN. They used the DC-9s for the short cycle, high frequency flying. NW used to have a much shorter operating day what DL had done and didn't have west coast hubs to extract more utilization out of existing aircraft.
A319 did very similar flying to the A320s for NW, they were highly interchangeable, and it wasn't uncommon for routine aircraft swaps as daily loads required. Both had 16F seats so that was nice.

In addition, many of the A320s rotated in and out of storage at various times including post-9/11 (2001-2003), Ch 11 restructuring (2005-2007), and global recession/downturn (2009-2010). They have been a workhorse but they haven't been flown super heavy to where they have been doing 6+ cycle days.

N309US had last report 87,589 Flight hours (FH) and 39,983 Flight Cycles (FC)

So plenty of life left. Since A320 have been flown to close to the level of Validity (120,000 FH or 60,000 FC, whichever comes first), I see life.
https://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx

Lightsaber

It is true that there is plenty of life left: the highest number of flight hours I have seen so far on an A320 is that of C-FDRH, which was retired with +91500 FH and +39400 FC according to viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1389793&start=300#p21645849 . And the average segment duration is similar as on N309US (2:19 vs 2:11). That means, while Delta could use them for serveral years, most other operators have decided to replace them by that point for economical reasons, for example with A320neos or 737 MAXs.
 
tnair1974
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:28 pm

When LH's oldest A320 (D-AIPA, MSN 069, built in 1989) was phased out, even AIPA had nearly 85,000 hours which is impressive considering Lufthansa's A320s on average operated more short hops compared to Northwest and Air Canada. Not withstanding that LH's A320s did some longer flights such as to northern Africa.

Granted, LH didn't intend to fly their oldest A320s as long as they did even after getting the life extension. However, A320NEO delivery delays caused the veteran birds to solder on until they started approaching the "cycle out" mark of 60,000 cycles. Nevertheless, the oldest batch of now-retired LH A320s were good workhorses for three long decades.
 
Lootess
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:17 am

Feels like a thread that existed when NW merged with DL. People saying Delta would end up Boeing only and now it's practically the major opposite.

A319/A320s are going nowhere. All of them been recently refurbed and taken the extensions, they will definitely backfill the MD fleet loss and with CFM and fleet commonality.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:27 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Chaostheory wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
I doubt that and the CFM56 outsells the V2500, if what you is the case the V2500 would outsell the CFM56.

And the CFM56 has better reliability and lower emissions.


I've flown both IAE and cfm fleets. At the time, the IAE aircraft I flew operated the longest sector lengths in Europe. More recently, I flew one of the few act equipped A320ceo (CFM) fleets. I know the numbers.

And careful with your generalisations. The V2500 has lower egt deterioration and lower maintenance costs at the higher thrust ratings (30k+).

The CFM-56 was clearly the better engine on the A319. It is lighter vand back when A319s sold, had a longer overhaul interval. We need to be careful on absolute statements on lowest fuel burn without considering what was available when Aircraft were ordered. The CFM provided lower fuel burn on the A319 when most operators originally ordered.

The later V2500, after the Select One PiP, but even more so after the Select Two PiP became the favored on the A321CEO. of course, many CFM56-5 customers stayed loyal. The V2500 was better sized for the A321, conversely, worse sized for the A319.

Because Delta has CFM powered A321, they will be able to economically keep the A320s.

CFM offered DL a sweet engine overhaul deal. Discussing why Delta buys or keeps anything needs to include TechOps in the reasoning.

Lightsaber

Quick drive by posting here from me Lightsaber but just to be clear

the CFM56-7 and CFM56-5B are in-house motors (not sure if they are still doing/offering -3s)

the CFM56-5A are vender motors. They go to France for overhaul. The legacy contract from NWA ended/ends either this year or next but I'd be highly surprised if those engines ever came in house. I'm not sure the CFM shop could even handle the work unless they were to start doing them in MSP or move/dump another engine line plus magically find all the space needed to the GTF in Atlanta.

FWIW now that the 777/MDs are gone the only other outsourced engines for Delta are the GE CF6-80E1s and the PW4168s. Will be interesting to see if they ever come in house (the 80E1s won't but the 4168s I could see as PW4056 work dies down unless Delta dumps the PW4000 for GTF space).



I do suspect Delta will get into a LEAP MRO deal as well though. I don't see GE basically giving up such a huge GE airline to Pratt/Rolls over MRO deals. Will be interesting to see what Delta/GE/RR does with a potential 737MAX/787 deal.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:03 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Chaostheory wrote:

I've flown both IAE and cfm fleets. At the time, the IAE aircraft I flew operated the longest sector lengths in Europe. More recently, I flew one of the few act equipped A320ceo (CFM) fleets. I know the numbers.

And careful with your generalisations. The V2500 has lower egt deterioration and lower maintenance costs at the higher thrust ratings (30k+).

The CFM-56 was clearly the better engine on the A319. It is lighter vand back when A319s sold, had a longer overhaul interval. We need to be careful on absolute statements on lowest fuel burn without considering what was available when Aircraft were ordered. The CFM provided lower fuel burn on the A319 when most operators originally ordered.

The later V2500, after the Select One PiP, but even more so after the Select Two PiP became the favored on the A321CEO. of course, many CFM56-5 customers stayed loyal. The V2500 was better sized for the A321, conversely, worse sized for the A319.

Because Delta has CFM powered A321, they will be able to economically keep the A320s.

CFM offered DL a sweet engine overhaul deal. Discussing why Delta buys or keeps anything needs to include TechOps in the reasoning.

Lightsaber

Quick drive by posting here from me Lightsaber but just to be clear

the CFM56-7 and CFM56-5B are in-house motors (not sure if they are still doing/offering -3s)

the CFM56-5A are vender motors. They go to France for overhaul. The legacy contract from NWA ended/ends either this year or next but I'd be highly surprised if those engines ever came in house. I'm not sure the CFM shop could even handle the work unless they were to start doing them in MSP or move/dump another engine line plus magically find all the space needed to the GTF in Atlanta.

FWIW now that the 777/MDs are gone the only other outsourced engines for Delta are the GE CF6-80E1s and the PW4168s. Will be interesting to see if they ever come in house (the 80E1s won't but the 4168s I could see as PW4056 work dies down unless Delta dumps the PW4000 for GTF space).



I do suspect Delta will get into a LEAP MRO deal as well though. I don't see GE basically giving up such a huge GE airline to Pratt/Rolls over MRO deals. Will be interesting to see what Delta/GE/RR does with a potential 737MAX/787 deal.

Thank you, I didn't realize the oldest CFM were outsourced for overhauls. That hurts the economic case.

However, I think DL is likely to keep these until HMV. However, i expect green time engines for a while.
Winter is coming.
 
Favre4
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:44 pm

3 leaving storage today from KSBD
 
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Narfish641
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:19 pm

Looks like the 757-300s are back in action. Looking on Flightaware (At the time I speak at the moment) DL1237 and 1716 are both flying between ATL and SLC. Great to see the pencil back in the air!

https://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B753
Flew on:
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tnair1974
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:42 am

APRobert wrote:
xdlx wrote:
Besides the already announced MD88/90 retirement, do we see the A319/320 replaced by A220/321's? Looks like the next older batch of planes are these, and a shrink of the company may translate into lesser frequency with larger planes in some routes.


According to the The Points Guy, all 62 of Delta's A320's and 80 of its 130 737-900ER's are or soon will be parked, but not as of this time, retired. See the link below.https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-par ... -downturn/

Yes, all 62 A320s were parked. Some at SBD, others at MCI, seems I recall a few went to VCV.

The first stored 737-900ER at SBD was ferried out a few weeks ago, headed to SEA.

As of this posting, three DL A320s have departed SBD; think these are the first three DL A320s to leave storage anywhere. Yesterday, one A320 ferried SBD-BOS; other than diverting to SLC (my guess is because of t-storms in/near BOS), it arrived at Logan Airport yesterday evening. Two more DL A320s departed SBD today; one just finished its ferry flight (also SBD-BOS) and other just took off destined to JFK.

As touched on elsewhere, those DL A320s (regardless of age) that had recent heavy checks seem especially good to go. Time will tell if the most elderly DL A320s that are close to zeroing out on heavy check hours (especially for a D-check/HMV) will later end up joining fellow DL MD-88s/90s and 763s in the boneyard :cry2: . The youngest DL A320s needing HMVs would likely have a considerably better chance of ultimately flying again.

At least by my count, 18 of Delta's 57 A319s were also parked, along with 56 (very newish) A321s.
 
tnair1974
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:06 am

Favre4 wrote:
3 leaving storage today from KSBD

:checkmark:

One arrived BOS yesterday (if first diverting to SLC, likely due to t-storms around BOS). The other two were postponed until today. One arrived BOS this evening, the other is headed to JFK as I post.
 
tnair1974
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:30 am

lightsaber wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
The CFM-56 was clearly the better engine on the A319. It is lighter vand back when A319s sold, had a longer overhaul interval. We need to be careful on absolute statements on lowest fuel burn without considering what was available when Aircraft were ordered. The CFM provided lower fuel burn on the A319 when most operators originally ordered.

The later V2500, after the Select One PiP, but even more so after the Select Two PiP became the favored on the A321CEO. of course, many CFM56-5 customers stayed loyal. The V2500 was better sized for the A321, conversely, worse sized for the A319.

Because Delta has CFM powered A321, they will be able to economically keep the A320s.

CFM offered DL a sweet engine overhaul deal. Discussing why Delta buys or keeps anything needs to include TechOps in the reasoning.

Lightsaber

Quick drive by posting here from me Lightsaber but just to be clear

the CFM56-7 and CFM56-5B are in-house motors (not sure if they are still doing/offering -3s)

the CFM56-5A are vender motors. They go to France for overhaul. The legacy contract from NWA ended/ends either this year or next but I'd be highly surprised if those engines ever came in house. I'm not sure the CFM shop could even handle the work unless they were to start doing them in MSP or move/dump another engine line plus magically find all the space needed to the GTF in Atlanta.

FWIW now that the 777/MDs are gone the only other outsourced engines for Delta are the GE CF6-80E1s and the PW4168s. Will be interesting to see if they ever come in house (the 80E1s won't but the 4168s I could see as PW4056 work dies down unless Delta dumps the PW4000 for GTF space).



I do suspect Delta will get into a LEAP MRO deal as well though. I don't see GE basically giving up such a huge GE airline to Pratt/Rolls over MRO deals. Will be interesting to see what Delta/GE/RR does with a potential 737MAX/787 deal.

Thank you, I didn't realize the oldest CFM were outsourced for overhauls. That hurts the economic case.

However, I think DL is likely to keep these until HMV. However, i expect green time engines for a while.

How interchangeable (or not) are CFM56-5A1, -5A3, and -5A5 engine parts?

I ask, as the oldest batch of DL A320s have the more vintage -5A1s while the newer DL A320s are powered by the -5A3 subtype (DL's A319s use the -5A5). Perhaps the more elderly A320s won't be kept in service long enough to economically justify doing the -5A1 inhouse (if the -5A1s have to be separate from the -5A3s/5A5s) But the remaining 28 newer A320s could easily remain in service for another decade....ditto the 57 A319s. Limited floor space notwithstanding, would there be a case for DL doing -5A3s/5A5s inhouse?
 
n7371f
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:13 am

Minimal. Don't have technical expertise personally but been told many times the -5A1/-5A3 is essentially the same engine. More in software differences and performance package.

In fact 3234-3250 were delivered as -5A1 to Northwest and later converted by NWA to -5A3. I should also note that the last 2 320's 3277-3278 are also -5A1 engines.


tnair1974 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
Quick drive by posting here from me Lightsaber but just to be clear

the CFM56-7 and CFM56-5B are in-house motors (not sure if they are still doing/offering -3s)

the CFM56-5A are vender motors. They go to France for overhaul. The legacy contract from NWA ended/ends either this year or next but I'd be highly surprised if those engines ever came in house. I'm not sure the CFM shop could even handle the work unless they were to start doing them in MSP or move/dump another engine line plus magically find all the space needed to the GTF in Atlanta.

FWIW now that the 777/MDs are gone the only other outsourced engines for Delta are the GE CF6-80E1s and the PW4168s. Will be interesting to see if they ever come in house (the 80E1s won't but the 4168s I could see as PW4056 work dies down unless Delta dumps the PW4000 for GTF space).



I do suspect Delta will get into a LEAP MRO deal as well though. I don't see GE basically giving up such a huge GE airline to Pratt/Rolls over MRO deals. Will be interesting to see what Delta/GE/RR does with a potential 737MAX/787 deal.

Thank you, I didn't realize the oldest CFM were outsourced for overhauls. That hurts the economic case.

However, I think DL is likely to keep these until HMV. However, i expect green time engines for a while.

How interchangeable (or not) are CFM56-5A1, -5A3, and -5A5 engine parts?

I ask, as the oldest batch of DL A320s have the more vintage -5A1s while the newer DL A320s are powered by the -5A3 subtype (DL's A319s use the -5A5). Perhaps the more elderly A320s won't be kept in service long enough to economically justify doing the -5A1 inhouse (if the -5A1s have to be separate from the -5A3s/5A5s) But the remaining 28 newer A320s could easily remain in service for another decade....ditto the 57 A319s. Limited floor space notwithstanding, would there be a case for DL doing -5A3s/5A5s inhouse?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:41 am

APRobert wrote:
[quote="RalXWB"
I am sorry to burst your bubble but today´s A321 flies the same payload farther than the 757 while being up to 30 percent more efficient so NO the 757 does not still have more range. #facts #rantover


Ranges for Delta's A321's and 757's according to Delta's public fleet information site.

A321-200: 191 seats, range 2,565 miles.
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/airbus/a321

757-300: 234 seats,range 3,285 miles.
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/boeing/757-300

757-200 Subfleet D: 199 seats, range 3,370 miles.
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/boeing/757-200

757-200 Subfleet H: 199 seats, range 3,980 miles.

757-200 Subfleet G: 193 seats, range 4,705 miles.

757-200 Subfleet S: 168 seats, range 4,705 miles.[/quote]
Delta's A321s lack ACTs. Now, the longer range 752 flying could only be replaced with an A321NEO with multiple ACTs. So today, you are correct.

However there is that order for a hundred A321NEO. The CEOs could add ACTs for more range.

l love the 752, but the A321xLR exceeds its capabilities. The 752's time hasn't come, but soon.

Although, for now, Delta needs to preserve cash.

Lightsaber
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Delta350
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:55 pm

lightsaber wrote:
APRobert wrote:
[quote="RalXWB"
I am sorry to burst your bubble but today´s A321 flies the same payload farther than the 757 while being up to 30 percent more efficient so NO the 757 does not still have more range. #facts #rantover


Ranges for Delta's A321's and 757's according to Delta's public fleet information site.

A321-200: 191 seats, range 2,565 miles.
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/airbus/a321

757-300: 234 seats,range 3,285 miles.
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/boeing/757-300

757-200 Subfleet D: 199 seats, range 3,370 miles.
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/boeing/757-200

757-200 Subfleet H: 199 seats, range 3,980 miles.

757-200 Subfleet G: 193 seats, range 4,705 miles.

757-200 Subfleet S: 168 seats, range 4,705 miles.

Delta's A321s lack ACTs. Now, the longer range 752 flying could only be replaced with an A321NEO with multiple ACTs. So today, you are correct.

However there is that order for a hundred A321NEO. The CEOs could add ACTs for more range.

l love the 752, but the A321xLR exceeds its capabilities. The 752's time hasn't come, but soon.

Although, for now, Delta needs to preserve cash.

[quote=“lightsaber”]

Just curious what’s the difference between the 757 Subfleets? The number of seats and range? Or like configuration and routes it serves?
Plane Spotter from the Magic City and Hartsfield-Jackson...(ATL)
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:42 pm

757 Subfleets:

757-300: (5801-5816)
F24W32Y178 (PMNW, AVOD/Sat TV, ISP, WiFi, new lavs/galleys/bins/PSUs/LED lighting, ETOPS)

75E -> 75S: (6801-6818)
C16W44Y108 (PMDL, International/JFK-CA, flatbeds in C, Satellite WiFi, PTVs, ETOPS

75A/75M -> 75H: (5635-5649)
F20W29Y150 (PMNW, AVOD/Sat TV, ISP, Satellite WiFi, new lavs/galleys/bins/PSUs/LED lighting, ETOPS)

757/75X/75M -> 75D: (658-660, 665, 667-676, 678-699, 5650-5657, 6700-6717)
F20W29Y150 (Mix of PMDL & PMNW, AVOD/Sat TV, ISP, WiFi, new lavs/galleys/bins/PSUs/LED lighting, not ETOPS)

Ex-Shanghai -> 75G: (6819-6823)
F20W41Y132 (AVOD/Sat TV, ISP, WiFi, new lavs/seats/galleys/bins/PSUs/LED lighting, winglets, and ETOPS)


757/75X -> 75C: (649-652, 654-655, 661-664, 666)
F72 (PMDL, NBA/Charter configuration)
 
tjerome
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:01 pm

tnair1974 wrote:
Favre4 wrote:
3 leaving storage today from KSBD

:checkmark:

One arrived BOS yesterday (if first diverting to SLC, likely due to t-storms around BOS). The other two were postponed until today. One arrived BOS this evening, the other is headed to JFK as I post.


The SLC diversion was for maintenance.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:20 pm

N361NW, N363NW, and N365NW have been flown out of storage.

Note that these are some of the later-build A320s in the fleet from 1998/1999
 
tnair1974
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:27 am

tjerome wrote:
tnair1974 wrote:
Favre4 wrote:
3 leaving storage today from KSBD

:checkmark:

One arrived BOS yesterday (if first diverting to SLC, likely due to t-storms around BOS). The other two were postponed until today. One arrived BOS this evening, the other is headed to JFK as I post.


The SLC diversion was for maintenance.

Interesting, thanks. While there were isolated t-storms around BOS, thought it was odd that the diversion flight was already east of Denver when it made a roughly 320 degree left turn back to SLC.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KSBD/KSLC
But perhaps better than going all the way to major DL maintenance centers like MSP, maybe even DTW. Anyway, the flight departed SLC a relatively short time later.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:31 am

3 more A320 being reactivated and leaving SBD in the next few days making a total of 6
 
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CarbonFibre
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:38 am

Why does the title say A320-200 ? They don't have any -100s after all.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:31 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
Why does the title say A320-200 ? They don't have any -100s after all.

Implies CEOs or older aircraft. It also makes it clear it is a model and not the A320 family such as the new A321s.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
tnair1974
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:43 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
N361NW, N363NW, and N365NW have been flown out of storage.

Note that these are some of the later-build A320s in the fleet from 1998/1999

Add N364NW, N350NA, and N349NW to the A320s that have left storage.

So it's four later-build birds and two older ones.
 
tnair1974
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:54 pm

To my knowledge, six A320s have flown out of storage. N349NW, N350NA, N361NW, N363NW, N364NW and N365NW.

Four later-build birds and two older ones.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:45 pm

It would be interesting to know if those six aircraft are among the closest to their next HMV of the A320 subfleet. Use and discard, so to speak.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:15 pm

lightsaber wrote:
CarbonFibre wrote:
Why does the title say A320-200 ? They don't have any -100s after all.

Implies CEOs or older aircraft. It also makes it clear it is a model and not the A320 family such as the new A321s.

Lightsaber


Old habits die hard. I still write that on fuel slips when we see them here.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:48 am

I've been tracking daily updates in the DL plans to be a smaller carrier / post-COVID thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1443189&p=22297057#p22297057

---

7 A320s have been removed from storage, 1 currently scheduled
N349NW, N350NA, N359NW, N361NW, N363NW, N364NW, N365NW

N334NW scheduled to depart SBD on Mon 6/29
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:49 am

Hard to know without all the details if these are either aircraft that recently completed HMVs versus are aircraft approaching HMVs in the next 12 months.

You could make an argument for either case to fly at this point.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:50 am

I've been tracking this in the "DL smaller carrier thread"
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1443189&p=22297057#p22297057


7 A320s have been removed from storage, 1 currently scheduled
N349NW, N350NA, N359NW, N361NW, N363NW, N364NW, N365NW

N334NW scheduled to depart SBD on Mon 6/29

8 B753s have returned to service with at least 3 more returning soon:


Total aircraft returned from storage through Sub 6/28:
4 A359 (All A359s out of storage and returned to service)
7 A320
25 A321
5 B738
35 B739
2 B752
6 B753
3 B763
----
90 Total
 
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res77W
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:43 pm

According to Flightradar24, two more 739s are scheduled to leave MCI today.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9967

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9964

-Rowen
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:30 pm

res77W wrote:
According to Flightradar24, two more 739s are scheduled to leave MCI today.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9967

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9964

-Rowen


I bet MCI's management is leaning on Delta to clear out their planes stored on crosswind runway 9/27. Business is picking up at MCI and they want that runway back in service.

Oddly, there has been little return to service by the planes stored at BHM.
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:56 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
res77W wrote:
According to Flightradar24, two more 739s are scheduled to leave MCI today.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9967

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9964

-Rowen


I bet MCI's management is leaning on Delta to clear out their planes stored on crosswind runway 9/27. Business is picking up at MCI and they want that runway back in service.

Oddly, there has been little return to service by the planes stored at BHM.


I Doubt it Re: MCI. They're making a good chunk of change in parking fees, and with traffic levels they way are they could run single runways ops if they wanted to and be just fine.
 
gdavis003
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:14 am

Just a question out of pure curiosity. When a plane is removed from storage say at BHM or MCI or any storage location that actually has scheduled service on Delta (unlike VCV or SBD), is the aircraft towed to a gate and the crew boards from a jetbridge at the main terminal or do they use air stairs at the storage area? Does the crew on board contain anyone besides captain and first officer for the flight to ATL or wherever it is destined? Of course, no passengers, but would there be anyone else on there? Again, kind of a random question just out of pure curiosity if anyone happens to know.
 
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res77W
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:57 pm

 
Cactusjuba
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:56 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
Just a question out of pure curiosity. When a plane is removed from storage say at BHM or MCI or any storage location that actually has scheduled service on Delta (unlike VCV or SBD), is the aircraft towed to a gate and the crew boards from a jetbridge at the main terminal or do they use air stairs at the storage area? Does the crew on board contain anyone besides captain and first officer for the flight to ATL or wherever it is destined? Of course, no passengers, but would there be anyone else on there? Again, kind of a random question just out of pure curiosity if anyone happens to know.


Just the 2 pilots. Whether or not they board via airstairs depends on availability of stairs, gates, tow vehicles, etc. So, sometimes both methods at the same airfield.
 
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res77W
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:55 pm

N896DN scheduled to depart MCI for ATL: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9960

-Rowen
 
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res77W
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:22 pm

N863DN scheduled to depart MCI for SEA this afternoon: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9960

-Rowen
 
Scoots71
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:27 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
res77W wrote:
According to Flightradar24, two more 739s are scheduled to leave MCI today.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9967

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9964

-Rowen


I bet MCI's management is leaning on Delta to clear out their planes stored on crosswind runway 9/27. Business is picking up at MCI and they want that runway back in service.

Oddly, there has been little return to service by the planes stored at BHM.


None of the planes stored at BHM are in the way of normal operations. Most are on a pad used by Stewart Industries, notable in recent years for being where many of the Allegiant MD-80's have been disassembled. Crosswind runway 18/36 is also rarely used due to runway 18's non-standard glide path. All of the commercial airlines actually will not allow their pilots to use runway 18.
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:43 pm

Another advantage of keeping the BHM planes in storage is the relative closeness to ATL. Mtc crews from ATL Line can go over regularly to perform the required storage mtc tasks. I think MCI still has a DL mtc crew but I bet it is very small.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:26 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
Another advantage of keeping the BHM planes in storage is the relative closeness to ATL. Mtc crews from ATL Line can go over regularly to perform the required storage mtc tasks. I think MCI still has a DL mtc crew but I bet it is very small.


This is true. With the drive time from ATL at roughly 90+/- minutes, BHM is a good storage area for DL. TechOps can send a team in a truck to BHM at a reasonable cost, along with the parts, tools & test equipment needed.

If someone lives near MCI, give us a head's-up on how many DL planes are still stored on the crosswind runway. Planes have been returning to service in ones or twos every few days, but with the pandemic flare-up in the Sunbelt, that may get slowed down.
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:08 pm

Delta A320 N326US filed MSP-SBD 9AM - 10:33AM as DL9960 tomorrow (July 15). As I commented in the SoCal Boneyard Storage and Activity Thread, Delta are taking 2 A320s out of storage of SBD today and they don't have maintenance facilities at SBD (for Delta) so it's not re-storage or maintenance. At 28.6 years old, is this the first of the next 'wave' of Delta A320 retirements? It was announced today that they would retire a 'portion' of the A320 fleet....(2nd link)

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n326us
https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status ... 1912660993
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:14 pm

DL A320 N326US was originally put into temporary storage in MCI back in April. It ferried MCI-MSP on 6/30 and from what I can tell never was put on a revenue flight.
I would assume that is is probably done flying.

DL sent a batch of old A320s to SBD to be broken-up a few years about when they retired about 10 of the early-build A320s that they decided not to put through the interior mod.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:21 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
Delta A320 N326US filed MSP-SBD 9AM - 10:33AM as DL9960 tomorrow (July 15). As I commented in the SoCal Boneyard Storage and Activity Thread, Delta are taking 2 A320s out of storage of SBD today and they don't have maintenance facilities at SBD (for Delta) so it's not re-storage or maintenance. At 28.6 years old, is this the first of the next 'wave' of Delta A320 retirements? It was announced today that they would retire a 'portion' of the A320 fleet....(2nd link)

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n326us
https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status ... 1912660993

Delta is going to retire "some" of the A320:

https://news.delta.com/delta-air-lines- ... se-actions

But, surprising to me, the 737-700s are going. All 73Gs from DL.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:51 pm

lightsaber wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
Delta A320 N326US filed MSP-SBD 9AM - 10:33AM as DL9960 tomorrow (July 15). As I commented in the SoCal Boneyard Storage and Activity Thread, Delta are taking 2 A320s out of storage of SBD today and they don't have maintenance facilities at SBD (for Delta) so it's not re-storage or maintenance. At 28.6 years old, is this the first of the next 'wave' of Delta A320 retirements? It was announced today that they would retire a 'portion' of the A320 fleet....(2nd link)

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n326us
https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status ... 1912660993

Delta is going to retire "some" of the A320:

https://news.delta.com/delta-air-lines- ... se-actions

But, surprising to me, the 737-700s are going. All 73Gs from DL.

Lightsaber

Surprise but not surprise IMO given they only have 10 73Gs while they have 57 A319s

Michael
 
tnair1974
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:58 am

Delta said 10 A320s will be retired (and 7 763s along with all 73Gs/777s, but surprisingly no 752s included at least not at this time).

I presume the 10 A320s will be from the older batch (1990-93 era)?? BTW, DL A320 N326US arrived SBD earlier today, perhaps its final flight.
 
N292UX
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:45 am

Only 7 763s? I thought it would be like 20-25. DL will be at about 55 A320s after these retirements? Still a larger A320 fleet than AA has, I think they have about ~45 A320s. I wonder if someone will pick those 73Gs up second hand. Doubtful but I've seen crazier. Maybe WN or UA.
 
n7371f
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:43 am

The 75D/75H crammed with 199 seats and current oil prices is not as inefficient aircraft as you think. That said, some will still permanently leave the fleet.

tnair1974 wrote:
Delta said 10 A320s will be retired (and 7 763s along with all 73Gs/777s, but surprisingly no 752s included at least not at this time).

I presume the 10 A320s will be from the older batch (1990-93 era)?? BTW, DL A320 N326US arrived SBD earlier today, perhaps its final flight.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:07 am

tnair1974 wrote:
Delta said 10 A320s will be retired (and 7 763s along with all 73Gs/777s, but surprisingly no 752s included at least not at this time).

I presume the 10 A320s will be from the older batch (1990-93 era)?? BTW, DL A320 N326US arrived SBD earlier today, perhaps its final flight.

I would assume the next 10 A320 due for a heavy maintenance visit are discarded. I'm not aware of any having so many cycles/hours to be obvious scrap candidates.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
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