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n515cr
Posts: 1809
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:49 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:49 pm

3220 showing an exit from SBD today: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n320us
 
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FLALEFTY
Posts: 797
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:25 pm

yyztpa2 wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
If furloughs were to happen with the numbers previously indicated, DL would end up furloughing something like 75% of the A220 FOs (essentially all of the A220 NYC FOs since its the most junior category in the system. In addition there is displacement on the A220 CA as well. There is not enough training capacity to get enough crews through to support flying the entire fleet. It would be several months to catch-up.

Thus the scenario where not only do they not need the new delivery A220s, they also may have to store current in-service A220s for a period of time.
The rumor was new delivery A220s are going to go to the desert before induction into service.


It will be interesting to see how things play out. However, given the 6 A321's at YMX, would Delta want to leave them in storage there in the harsh Quebec Winter? Or do they bite the bullet, pay the tariffs, take delivery and fly these to VCV or MZJ for storage until they actually can fly them on the line?

I didn't tariffs applied to A220


The A220 components shipped to Mobile for assembly are not subject to tariffs.

https://www.americanmachinist.com/news/ ... ariff-list

However, for the A221's for Delta coming from YMX, the matter is still not completely settled.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSeries_d ... _by_Boeing
 
yyztpa2
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 pm

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:30 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
yyztpa2 wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:

It will be interesting to see how things play out. However, given the 6 A321's at YMX, would Delta want to leave them in storage there in the harsh Quebec Winter? Or do they bite the bullet, pay the tariffs, take delivery and fly these to VCV or MZJ for storage until they actually can fly them on the line?

I didn't tariffs applied to A220


The A220 components shipped to Mobile for assembly are not subject to tariffs.

https://www.americanmachinist.com/news/ ... ariff-list

However, for the A221's for Delta coming from YMX, the matter is still not completely settled.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSeries_d ... _by_Boeing


There have been no tariffs on A221 from YMX. Airbus is not testing the water with A223 however and as such all A223 for US market are assembled in BFM
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5362
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:35 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
If furloughs were to happen with the numbers previously indicated, DL would end up furloughing something like 75% of the A220 FOs (essentially all of the A220 NYC FOs since its the most junior category in the system. In addition there is displacement on the A220 CA as well. There is not enough training capacity to get enough crews through to support flying the entire fleet. It would be several months to catch-up.

Thus the scenario where not only do they not need the new delivery A220s, they also may have to store current in-service A220s for a period of time.
The rumor was new delivery A220s are going to go to the desert before induction into service.

For those of us, less intimated to inner workings of displacement/furloughs. Is it possible to let more junior pilots "hang around" a while, while their more senior coworkers get retrained on their equipment? The junior folks would earn their salary (if only for a while), the equipment would get flown -- win-win. Or is it "out of seniority flying", and "breach of contract"?

absolutely a breach of contract. It would take about .0000000000000000001 seconds for ALPA to have an injunction issued. US airlines (and most airlines outside of third world countries ie China) go by seniority for just about everything. They do that because......
joeblow10 wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
If furloughs were to happen with the numbers previously indicated, DL would end up furloughing something like 75% of the A220 FOs (essentially all of the A220 NYC FOs since its the most junior category in the system. In addition there is displacement on the A220 CA as well. There is not enough training capacity to get enough crews through to support flying the entire fleet. It would be several months to catch-up.

Thus the scenario where not only do they not need the new delivery A220s, they also may have to store current in-service A220s for a period of time.
The rumor was new delivery A220s are going to go to the desert before induction into service.

For those of us, less intimated to inner workings of displacement/furloughs. Is it possible to let more junior pilots "hang around" a while, while their more senior coworkers get retrained on their equipment? The junior folks would earn their salary (if only for a while), the equipment would get flown -- win-win. Or is it "out of seniority flying", and "breach of contract"?


It’s the latter. That’s why furloughing and especially displacement really cost a company a lot of money, and the math has to add up for them to assume they won’t need to bring these folks back anytime in the immediate short term. All of that retraining and reshuffling will happen again on the other side when musical chairs start again, and if that’s not that far away, it doesn’t make economic sense to furlough - clearly, management thinks the timeframe does. We shall see


Exactly. The goal is to cause furloughing to cost a ton to keep the company from doing it. It also is a protection from senior employees.

an example, Delta is closing the CVG 73N pilot base. Some of those guys are quite senior. Delta would LOVE to just lay those people off instead of 1) dealing with the displacements and bumping that comes down the list with that 2) replace those high cost high time employees with new junior employees.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8139
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:14 pm

B712 to be retired by December 2025 per SEC filing along with B763

CR2 retired by December 2023
 
flyabr
Posts: 866
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:42 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:19 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
B712 to be retired by December 2025 per SEC filing along with B763

CR2 retired by December 2023


How will the CR2 retirement affect SkyWest?? Wondering if my home airport (ABR) will lose service? :-(
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2400
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:32 pm

flyabr wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
B712 to be retired by December 2025 per SEC filing along with B763

CR2 retired by December 2023


How will the CR2 retirement affect SkyWest?? Wondering if my home airport (ABR) will lose service? :-(


I wonder if the CR2 retirement is a misnomer, in that SkyWest will operate the aircraft in at-risk flying and that the actual DL-owned/contracted aircraft will be retired.
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:32 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:08 am

What happened with regards to the FAA DLs 717 seat replacement mandate by May 2022? I find it hard to believe DL would pay to add new seats, only for them to be retired 3 years later.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2675
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:38 am

deltal1011man wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
If furloughs were to happen with the numbers previously indicated, DL would end up furloughing something like 75% of the A220 FOs (essentially all of the A220 NYC FOs since its the most junior category in the system. In addition there is displacement on the A220 CA as well. There is not enough training capacity to get enough crews through to support flying the entire fleet. It would be several months to catch-up.

Thus the scenario where not only do they not need the new delivery A220s, they also may have to store current in-service A220s for a period of time.
The rumor was new delivery A220s are going to go to the desert before induction into service.

For those of us, less intimated to inner workings of displacement/furloughs. Is it possible to let more junior pilots "hang around" a while, while their more senior coworkers get retrained on their equipment? The junior folks would earn their salary (if only for a while), the equipment would get flown -- win-win. Or is it "out of seniority flying", and "breach of contract"?

absolutely a breach of contract. It would take about .0000000000000000001 seconds for ALPA to have an injunction issued. US airlines (and most airlines outside of third world countries ie China) go by seniority for just about everything. They do that because......


It’s possible to keep enough A220 FOs while their replacements are trained. However every pilot, on every fleet, that is senior to the most junior A220 FO that’s flying has to stay. Likely over a thousand excess pilots collecting reserve guarantee until those A220 FO replacements are trained.

It’s probably much cheaper to just fly the A320 and 737 family jets a little more for a few months.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
FlyGuyNash
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:56 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:53 am

Alias1024 wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
For those of us, less intimated to inner workings of displacement/furloughs. Is it possible to let more junior pilots "hang around" a while, while their more senior coworkers get retrained on their equipment? The junior folks would earn their salary (if only for a while), the equipment would get flown -- win-win. Or is it "out of seniority flying", and "breach of contract"?

absolutely a breach of contract. It would take about .0000000000000000001 seconds for ALPA to have an injunction issued. US airlines (and most airlines outside of third world countries ie China) go by seniority for just about everything. They do that because......


It’s possible to keep enough A220 FOs while their replacements are trained. However every pilot, on every fleet, that is senior to the most junior A220 FO that’s flying has to stay. Likely over a thousand excess pilots collecting reserve guarantee until those A220 FO replacements are trained.

It’s probably much cheaper to just fly the A320 and 737 family jets a little more for a few months.


These problems are about to fix themselves with some more government money. It seems over the past 24 hours congress wants to get a stimulus package out.
Last edited by FlyGuyNash on Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
FlyGuyNash
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:56 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:54 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
What happened with regards to the FAA DLs 717 seat replacement mandate by May 2022? I find it hard to believe DL would pay to add new seats, only for them to be retired 3 years later.


I was wondering the same thing. I wonder if they got the FAA to extend them or do a cheaper option. I am sure we will found out later.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8139
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:48 am

Here's a summary of where we are at with the narrowbody fleet. I've tried to keep the commentary line factual. Opinion/Speculation as that.
Feel free to add in detail around what is known and/or speculation.

B717:
YE2019: 91
Current: 47 in-service, 44 in temp storage;

Commentary:
With the exception of a few owned frames, the fleet is leased. Unverified rumors circulated several months ago about perhaps making a deal to return B717 to Boeing in exchance for a future MAX order. Pilot advanced displacement bid realigned future pilot bases to ATL & DTW only, and planned on operating 30-45 frames through 2022. Fleet is facing an airworthiness directive at the end of 2022 requiring seats to be replaced.
Currently all 717 flying is out-and-backs from ATL primarily backfilling the routes previously flown by MD88/90, but a small amount of 717 flying is going to resume from DTW in October.
In a 8K filing on 9/25, DL indicated that they intend to retire all 717s by December 2025.

Speculation/Opinion:
We all assumed that a decision about the 717 fleet had to be made this year. A lot of unknowns about how many frames will stay, what happens with the seat AD / did they get an extension? Do they intend to reactivate more than the ~45 they have in service now?
It sounds like they are going to remove frames from the fleet as leases expire over the next 5 years. Pre-Covid it sounded like they would renew leases possibly out to 2030, but obviously not reason to now in the current situation and with A220s on order.

B73G:
YE2019: 10
Current: 0 in-service, 10 removed from service
Commentary: Final scheduled revenue flights occurred right after Labor Day weekend. The last of the aircraft ferry out Wed 9/23 to storage locations (SBD, MZJ, BYH)

B738:
YE2019: 77
Current: 63 in-service, 12 in temp storage, 2 pending/in maintenance
Commentary: They have been actively reactivating this fleet over the summer months. Remaining aircraft in storage remain split between VCV, MWH, and BHM. Most of the ones remaining in storage likely are pending maintenance visits and are now typically going through QRO before returning to service.

Speculation/Opinion:
No indication that any of these aircraft are on any watch-list for retirement, at least until some of the oldest ones come due for their last and final HMV visit in another 2-3 years. It will be interesting to see whether DL puts them through their last and final HMV visit around the 24 year mark to get them out to 30 year in service.

B739:
YE2019: 130
Current: 105 in-service, 25 in temp storage
Commentary They have been actively reactivating this fleet over the summer months, all 0-6 years old. There are essentially two batches of 739s that remain in storage and it appears those are all at or near a maintenance check. A tranche that are at the 3 year in-service and another tranche that are at the 6 year mark that would be due for their first HMV.
The remaining 739s in storage are split between MCI, MWH, VCV

B752:
YE2019: 111
Current: 68 in-service, 43 in temp storage
Commentary: They have been actively reactivating this fleet over the summer months. No official announcement of any pending decisions.

Speculation/Opinion:
Its possible there could be some early retirements on frame-specific basis as they approach HMV visits. This fleet still represents a large amount of domestic/narrowbody capacity, still has a lot of green time left on them, and with their larger capacity and the near/medium term need to defer deliveries of new aircraft (321 NEO) means they will probably stay until their natural retirement point as planned. The DL 757 is probably going to become the new "NW DC-9" or "DL MD-88"


B753:
YE2019: 16
Current: 13 in-service, 1 in temp storage, 2 in maintenance
Commentary: Many were pulled out of storage and reactivated for July flying, a few frames were in the midst of heavy maintenance that will be finished-up.

Speculation/Opinion:
These frames will likely stick around at least until their next HMV since they just went through heavy maintenance. (2026 +/-).


A221:
YE2019: 28
Current: 31 in-service, 14 on-order
Commentary: New fleet no official announcement on revised delivery schedule
Speculation/Opinion: Additional deliveries likely to be deferred into 2021. If DL does end up furloughing pilots, they will be unable to fully staff the aircraft due to training capacity/backlog and may have to store some active and future delivery aircraft.

A223:
YE2019: 0
Current: 0, 50 on-order
Commentary: New fleet, no official announcement on revised delivery schedule

A319:
YE2019: 57
Current: 40 in-service, 17 in temp storage
Commentary: No official announcement of any pending decisions
Speculation/Opinion: Its possible there could be some early future retirements on frame-specific basis as they approach future HMV visits in the years ahead. I don't expect any actions on this fleet in the near-term. Some portion of the fleet is likely to be in-service at least through 2026-2030 depending on how they proceed with future HMV visits/intervals in future years.

A320:
YE2019: 62
Current: 30 in-service, 32 in temp storage
Commentary: 10 announced to be retired in 2020, the next ones due for HMVs. All were parked for April-June, but frames are being returned to service.
Speculation/Commentary: Its possible there could be some early future retirements on frame-specific basis as they approach their last and final HMV visits. Some portion of the fleet is likely to be in-service at least through 2026/2027, or longer if they decide to resume future HMVs, or not.

A321(CEO)
YE2019: 96
Current: 79 in-service, 23 in temp storage, 24 on-order
Commentary: All 0-3 years old, all should return to service. No official announcement on revised delivery schedule of remaining CEOs. 3 of the 5 post-Covid deliveries have recently occured and will be part of a sale-leaseback transaction.

A321(NEO)
YE2019: 0
Current: 0, 100 on-order
Commentary: First deliveries were to occur 2nd half of 2020, no official announcement on revised delivery schedule but not likely until at least 2021.


MD88:
YE2019: 47
Current: 0, all 47 retired
Commentary: These were already planned to all retire by end of 2020. Last aircraft retired from service June 2020

MD90:
YE2019: 30
Current: 0, all 30 retired
Commentary: These were scheduled to retire by end of 2022, Last aircraft retired from service June 2020.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5195
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:57 am

The 757-200s will be interesting to watch- a 757 captain I chatted with at JFK a couple years ago (obviously, pre-COVID) said he wouldn't have been surprised to see at least a few stick around into the 2030s which, given some of the frames are from 2004-05, is plausible.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
n7371f
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:43 am

It doesn't really. OO has already returned the DAL owned CRJ's and they're out of the system. DAL's filing deals with the dozens of CRJ's they own or lease (from the predecessor of Bombardier Capital) and that are flown by Endeavor.

flyabr wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
B712 to be retired by December 2025 per SEC filing along with B763

CR2 retired by December 2023


How will the CR2 retirement affect SkyWest?? Wondering if my home airport (ABR) will lose service? :-(
 
n7371f
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:45 am

Good stuff.

I'd like to add on the 717 fleet DAL will continue to assume ownership of more 717's as each month goes by. I don't have access to the specs on ship numbers and their move over from AirTran/SWA subleases but they're baked into the system. I believe the write down DAL is taking on the 717 incorporates the date of ownership vs date of expected retirement.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Here's a summary of where we are at with the narrowbody fleet. I've tried to keep the commentary line factual. Opinion/Speculation as that.
Feel free to add in detail around what is known and/or speculation.

B717:
YE2019: 91
Current: 47 in-service, 44 in temp storage;

Commentary:
With the exception of a few owned frames, the fleet is leased. Unverified rumors circulated several months ago about perhaps making a deal to return B717 to Boeing in exchance for a future MAX order. Pilot advanced displacement bid realigned future pilot bases to ATL & DTW only, and planned on operating 30-45 frames through 2022. Fleet is facing an airworthiness directive at the end of 2022 requiring seats to be replaced.
Currently all 717 flying is out-and-backs from ATL primarily backfilling the routes previously flown by MD88/90, but a small amount of 717 flying is going to resume from DTW in October.
In a 8K filing on 9/25, DL indicated that they intend to retire all 717s by December 2025.

Speculation/Opinion:
We all assumed that a decision about the 717 fleet had to be made this year. A lot of unknowns about how many frames will stay, what happens with the seat AD / did they get an extension? Do they intend to reactivate more than the ~45 they have in service now?
It sounds like they are going to remove frames from the fleet as leases expire over the next 5 years. Pre-Covid it sounded like they would renew leases possibly out to 2030, but obviously not reason to now in the current situation and with A220s on order.

B73G:
YE2019: 10
Current: 0 in-service, 10 removed from service
Commentary: Final scheduled revenue flights occurred right after Labor Day weekend. The last of the aircraft ferry out Wed 9/23 to storage locations (SBD, MZJ, BYH)

B738:
YE2019: 77
Current: 63 in-service, 12 in temp storage, 2 pending/in maintenance
Commentary: They have been actively reactivating this fleet over the summer months. Remaining aircraft in storage remain split between VCV, MWH, and BHM. Most of the ones remaining in storage likely are pending maintenance visits and are now typically going through QRO before returning to service.

Speculation/Opinion:
No indication that any of these aircraft are on any watch-list for retirement, at least until some of the oldest ones come due for their last and final HMV visit in another 2-3 years. It will be interesting to see whether DL puts them through their last and final HMV visit around the 24 year mark to get them out to 30 year in service.

B739:
YE2019: 130
Current: 105 in-service, 25 in temp storage
Commentary They have been actively reactivating this fleet over the summer months, all 0-6 years old. There are essentially two batches of 739s that remain in storage and it appears those are all at or near a maintenance check. A tranche that are at the 3 year in-service and another tranche that are at the 6 year mark that would be due for their first HMV.
The remaining 739s in storage are split between MCI, MWH, VCV

B752:
YE2019: 111
Current: 68 in-service, 43 in temp storage
Commentary: They have been actively reactivating this fleet over the summer months. No official announcement of any pending decisions.

Speculation/Opinion:
Its possible there could be some early retirements on frame-specific basis as they approach HMV visits. This fleet still represents a large amount of domestic/narrowbody capacity, still has a lot of green time left on them, and with their larger capacity and the near/medium term need to defer deliveries of new aircraft (321 NEO) means they will probably stay until their natural retirement point as planned. The DL 757 is probably going to become the new "NW DC-9" or "DL MD-88"


B753:
YE2019: 16
Current: 13 in-service, 1 in temp storage, 2 in maintenance
Commentary: Many were pulled out of storage and reactivated for July flying, a few frames were in the midst of heavy maintenance that will be finished-up.

Speculation/Opinion:
These frames will likely stick around at least until their next HMV since they just went through heavy maintenance. (2026 +/-).


A221:
YE2019: 28
Current: 31 in-service, 14 on-order
Commentary: New fleet no official announcement on revised delivery schedule
Speculation/Opinion: Additional deliveries likely to be deferred into 2021. If DL does end up furloughing pilots, they will be unable to fully staff the aircraft due to training capacity/backlog and may have to store some active and future delivery aircraft.

A223:
YE2019: 0
Current: 0, 50 on-order
Commentary: New fleet, no official announcement on revised delivery schedule

A319:
YE2019: 57
Current: 40 in-service, 17 in temp storage
Commentary: No official announcement of any pending decisions
Speculation/Opinion: Its possible there could be some early future retirements on frame-specific basis as they approach future HMV visits in the years ahead. I don't expect any actions on this fleet in the near-term. Some portion of the fleet is likely to be in-service at least through 2026-2030 depending on how they proceed with future HMV visits/intervals in future years.

A320:
YE2019: 62
Current: 30 in-service, 32 in temp storage
Commentary: 10 announced to be retired in 2020, the next ones due for HMVs. All were parked for April-June, but frames are being returned to service.
Speculation/Commentary: Its possible there could be some early future retirements on frame-specific basis as they approach their last and final HMV visits. Some portion of the fleet is likely to be in-service at least through 2026/2027, or longer if they decide to resume future HMVs, or not.

A321(CEO)
YE2019: 96
Current: 79 in-service, 23 in temp storage, 24 on-order
Commentary: All 0-3 years old, all should return to service. No official announcement on revised delivery schedule of remaining CEOs. 3 of the 5 post-Covid deliveries have recently occured and will be part of a sale-leaseback transaction.

A321(NEO)
YE2019: 0
Current: 0, 100 on-order
Commentary: First deliveries were to occur 2nd half of 2020, no official announcement on revised delivery schedule but not likely until at least 2021.


MD88:
YE2019: 47
Current: 0, all 47 retired
Commentary: These were already planned to all retire by end of 2020. Last aircraft retired from service June 2020

MD90:
YE2019: 30
Current: 0, all 30 retired
Commentary: These were scheduled to retire by end of 2022, Last aircraft retired from service June 2020.
 
jfern022
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:30 am

DeltaRules wrote:
The 757-200s will be interesting to watch- a 757 captain I chatted with at JFK a couple years ago (obviously, pre-COVID) said he wouldn't have been surprised to see at least a few stick around into the 2030s which, given some of the frames are from 2004-05, is plausible.


I know the 75S’s (with D1) are well liked, haven’t been accumulating a ton of cycles lately and will be beneficial to re-enter TATL markets.

The 5 from Shanghai were the very last builds if I’m not mistaken. Can’t remember if they had their own sub fleet.
 
User avatar
KLMatSJC
Posts: 761
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:48 am

jfern022 wrote:
The 5 from Shanghai were the very last builds if I’m not mistaken. Can’t remember if they had their own sub fleet.

Yes they are the "75Gs". They mainly do LAX/SEA-Hawaii, but are rotated within the continental US a bit as well.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5195
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:37 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
jfern022 wrote:
The 5 from Shanghai were the very last builds if I’m not mistaken. Can’t remember if they had their own sub fleet.

Yes they are the "75Gs". They mainly do LAX/SEA-Hawaii, but are rotated within the continental US a bit as well.


I flew one (the last 757 built) the day I referenced where I had the chat with the pilot. It had come in from KEF and I flew it JFK-ATL.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8240
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:04 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
The 757-200s will be interesting to watch- a 757 captain I chatted with at JFK a couple years ago (obviously, pre-COVID) said he wouldn't have been surprised to see at least a few stick around into the 2030s which, given some of the frames are from 2004-05, is plausible.


IMHO, 757s (and 753s) won't last beyond the 764s. DL will take the opportunity to eliminate the 752/753/763/764 pilot rating group as well as get better operating economics. DL had begun talking about fleet simplification a bit before COVID and now it's going to be that much more urgent. Yesterday's fleet announcement shows that.

The frequent remark 'retire on a frame-specific basis' by PSU.DTW.SCE seems likely to me. But, as was true with DL MD-88s, MD-90s, and AA MD-80s, at some point there will be an implosion: one day there will be a couple of dozen flying, and the next day zero.
 
deltaSEAalsaka
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:52 pm

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:28 pm

Seems as if the first 220-300 routes have been loaded to start in mid-November. Looks like 2x SLC-AUS and 1x SLC-IAH for the time being.
There is no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people asking questions.
 
BowlingShoeDC9
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:33 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Here's a summary of where we are at with the narrowbody fleet. I've tried to keep the commentary line factual. Opinion/Speculation as that.
Feel free to add in detail around what is known and/or speculation.

B717:
YE2019: 91
Current: 47 in-service, 44 in temp storage;

Commentary:
With the exception of a few owned frames, the fleet is leased. Unverified rumors circulated several months ago about perhaps making a deal to return B717 to Boeing in exchance for a future MAX order. Pilot advanced displacement bid realigned future pilot bases to ATL & DTW only, and planned on operating 30-45 frames through 2022. Fleet is facing an airworthiness directive at the end of 2022 requiring seats to be replaced.
Currently all 717 flying is out-and-backs from ATL primarily backfilling the routes previously flown by MD88/90, but a small amount of 717 flying is going to resume from DTW in October.
In a 8K filing on 9/25, DL indicated that they intend to retire all 717s by December 2025.

Speculation/Opinion:
We all assumed that a decision about the 717 fleet had to be made this year. A lot of unknowns about how many frames will stay, what happens with the seat AD / did they get an extension? Do they intend to reactivate more than the ~45 they have in service now?
It sounds like they are going to remove frames from the fleet as leases expire over the next 5 years. Pre-Covid it sounded like they would renew leases possibly out to 2030, but obviously not reason to now in the current situation and with A220s on order.

B73G:
YE2019: 10
Current: 0 in-service, 10 removed from service
Commentary: Final scheduled revenue flights occurred right after Labor Day weekend. The last of the aircraft ferry out Wed 9/23 to storage locations (SBD, MZJ, BYH)

B738:
YE2019: 77
Current: 63 in-service, 12 in temp storage, 2 pending/in maintenance
Commentary: They have been actively reactivating this fleet over the summer months. Remaining aircraft in storage remain split between VCV, MWH, and BHM. Most of the ones remaining in storage likely are pending maintenance visits and are now typically going through QRO before returning to service.

Speculation/Opinion:
No indication that any of these aircraft are on any watch-list for retirement, at least until some of the oldest ones come due for their last and final HMV visit in another 2-3 years. It will be interesting to see whether DL puts them through their last and final HMV visit around the 24 year mark to get them out to 30 year in service.

B739:
YE2019: 130
Current: 105 in-service, 25 in temp storage
Commentary They have been actively reactivating this fleet over the summer months, all 0-6 years old. There are essentially two batches of 739s that remain in storage and it appears those are all at or near a maintenance check. A tranche that are at the 3 year in-service and another tranche that are at the 6 year mark that would be due for their first HMV.
The remaining 739s in storage are split between MCI, MWH, VCV

B752:
YE2019: 111
Current: 68 in-service, 43 in temp storage
Commentary: They have been actively reactivating this fleet over the summer months. No official announcement of any pending decisions.

Speculation/Opinion:
Its possible there could be some early retirements on frame-specific basis as they approach HMV visits. This fleet still represents a large amount of domestic/narrowbody capacity, still has a lot of green time left on them, and with their larger capacity and the near/medium term need to defer deliveries of new aircraft (321 NEO) means they will probably stay until their natural retirement point as planned. The DL 757 is probably going to become the new "NW DC-9" or "DL MD-88"


B753:
YE2019: 16
Current: 13 in-service, 1 in temp storage, 2 in maintenance
Commentary: Many were pulled out of storage and reactivated for July flying, a few frames were in the midst of heavy maintenance that will be finished-up.

Speculation/Opinion:
These frames will likely stick around at least until their next HMV since they just went through heavy maintenance. (2026 +/-).


A221:
YE2019: 28
Current: 31 in-service, 14 on-order
Commentary: New fleet no official announcement on revised delivery schedule
Speculation/Opinion: Additional deliveries likely to be deferred into 2021. If DL does end up furloughing pilots, they will be unable to fully staff the aircraft due to training capacity/backlog and may have to store some active and future delivery aircraft.

A223:
YE2019: 0
Current: 0, 50 on-order
Commentary: New fleet, no official announcement on revised delivery schedule

A319:
YE2019: 57
Current: 40 in-service, 17 in temp storage
Commentary: No official announcement of any pending decisions
Speculation/Opinion: Its possible there could be some early future retirements on frame-specific basis as they approach future HMV visits in the years ahead. I don't expect any actions on this fleet in the near-term. Some portion of the fleet is likely to be in-service at least through 2026-2030 depending on how they proceed with future HMV visits/intervals in future years.

A320:
YE2019: 62
Current: 30 in-service, 32 in temp storage
Commentary: 10 announced to be retired in 2020, the next ones due for HMVs. All were parked for April-June, but frames are being returned to service.
Speculation/Commentary: Its possible there could be some early future retirements on frame-specific basis as they approach their last and final HMV visits. Some portion of the fleet is likely to be in-service at least through 2026/2027, or longer if they decide to resume future HMVs, or not.

A321(CEO)
YE2019: 96
Current: 79 in-service, 23 in temp storage, 24 on-order
Commentary: All 0-3 years old, all should return to service. No official announcement on revised delivery schedule of remaining CEOs. 3 of the 5 post-Covid deliveries have recently occured and will be part of a sale-leaseback transaction.

A321(NEO)
YE2019: 0
Current: 0, 100 on-order
Commentary: First deliveries were to occur 2nd half of 2020, no official announcement on revised delivery schedule but not likely until at least 2021.


MD88:
YE2019: 47
Current: 0, all 47 retired
Commentary: These were already planned to all retire by end of 2020. Last aircraft retired from service June 2020

MD90:
YE2019: 30
Current: 0, all 30 retired
Commentary: These were scheduled to retire by end of 2022, Last aircraft retired from service June 2020.



I’ve been meaning to ask this... Are they cutting back 717’s out of DTW again after the new year? I know for DTW-MEM it looks like it switches back to CR9’s after the holidays for the rest of 2021.

This December might be my last time on a DC-9 derivative. :(
 
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Antaras
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:36 pm

Any chance for DL to order the Max 8 and somehow completely replace the aging A319/320?
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:05 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
The 757-200s will be interesting to watch- a 757 captain I chatted with at JFK a couple years ago (obviously, pre-COVID) said he wouldn't have been surprised to see at least a few stick around into the 2030s which, given some of the frames are from 2004-05, is plausible.


IMHO, 757s (and 753s) won't last beyond the 764s. DL will take the opportunity to eliminate the 752/753/763/764 pilot rating group as well as get better operating economics. DL had begun talking about fleet simplification a bit before COVID and now it's going to be that much more urgent. Yesterday's fleet announcement shows that.

The frequent remark 'retire on a frame-specific basis' by PSU.DTW.SCE seems likely to me. But, as was true with DL MD-88s, MD-90s, and AA MD-80s, at some point there will be an implosion: one day there will be a couple of dozen flying, and the next day zero.

You describe a typical retirement. First it is frame specific. A 2025 retirement date tells us no more Heavy Maintenance Visits. Run until the minimum viable block must be retired.

I see DL is owning more 717s, that gives far more flexibility in engine green time.

At DL's low engine utilization, 2020 might have been the last engine overhauls for DL.

This is a facinating fleet decision. When times are better, DL will buy. The question is new or used?

Lightsaber
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:50 am

BowlingShoeDC9 wrote:
I’ve been meaning to ask this... Are they cutting back 717’s out of DTW again after the new year? I know for DTW-MEM it looks like it switches back to CR9’s after the holidays for the rest of 2021.

This December might be my last time on a DC-9 derivative. :(

DL pulled the 717 flying from DTW in May, when they consolidated the remaining ~45 frames not put into storage to ATL, primarily to backfill a lot of the remaining MD88/90 out-and-back flying.
Going forward, DL plans to have 717 pilot bases in ATL & DTW. They previously said 30-45 active aircraft, with about an 80/20 split in flying between ATL & DTW. That said, those numbers were all given early-summer before any formal decision about the timeline of the 717 fleet.

717 flying is returning to DTW in October, on a few routes. I see them on some frequencies in BNA, RDU, PHL, CLT.

The future schedule is just a placeholder and doesn't reflect any reality. They are still actively updating the Nov schedule at this point. January and beyond for domestic still shows a lot of pre-covid.

I would expect there is going to continue to be some 717 flying out of DTW in 2021 considering its coming back in a few days.
 
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:52 am

Recap of narrowbody movements last week, and whats showing up for this week.

Mon 9/21 B752 QRO-DTW 699 N699DL (75D) (storage & maintenance exit)

Wed 9/22 A320 SBD-MSP 3240 N340NW (storage exit)

Wed 9/23 A320 SAL-MSP 3278 N378NW (maintenance exit, stored at SBD 4/8-ferried SBD-SAL on 8/8, youngest A320 in the fleet)
Wed 9/23 B739 VCV-ATL 3827 N827DN (storage exit)
Wed 9/23 B738 BHM-QRO 3764 N3764D (storage exit, to maintenance)
Wed 9/23 B753 QRO-ATL 5805 N585NW (storage & maintenance exit)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3601 N301DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-BYH 3602 N302DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3603 N303DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G MSP-MZJ 3604 N304DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3607 N306DQ (retirement/storage)
Wed 9/23 B73G ATL-MZJ 3608 N308DQ (retirement/storage)
(3605, 3607, 3609, 3610 previously stored at SBD)

Thu 9/24 A321 BFM-MSP 1005 N105DX (new delivery)
Thu 9/24 B753 ATL-QRO 5808 N588NW (maintenance entrance)

Fri 9/26 B752 ATL-BHM 652 N652DL (75C) (storage)
Fri 9/26 B752 ATL-BHM 662 N662DL (75C) (storage)
Fri 9/26 A321 ATL-MSP 3006 N306DN (storage exit)
Fri 9/26 A320 SBD-MSP 3220 N320US (storage exit)

Mon 9/28 A321 MZJ-MSP 3043 N343DN (storage exit)

Planned:
Tue 9/29 B739 MWH-ATL 3881 N881DN (storage exit)
Tue 9/29 A320 SBD-MSP 3248 N348NW (storage exit)
Tue 9/29 A320 SAL-SLC 3273 N373NW (maintenance exit, ferried BHM-SAL on 9/8)
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:24 pm

8 A220s are scheduled to ferry into SBD on Thu 10/1 for storage.
Haven't looked up tail numbers yet, but this indicates A220 flying will be significantly down for Oct.
 
yyztpa2
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:48 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
8 A220s are scheduled to ferry into SBD on Thu 10/1 for storage.
Haven't looked up tail numbers yet, but this indicates A220 flying will be significantly down for Oct.


Perhaps 6 x A221 from YMX and 2 x A223 from BFM delivery?

https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html
50051 (C) A220-100 Mar 07, 2020 (48th -100 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-FOVK N132DU On order, flight testing in YMX
50052 (C) A220-100 Mar 07, 2020 (47th -100 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-FOVP N133DU On order, flight testing in YMX
50053 (C) A220-100 Mar 22, 2020 (49th -100 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-FOWQ N134DU On order, flight testing in YMX
50054 (C) A220-100 Jun 23, 2020 (50th -100 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-FOUY N135DQ On order, flight testing in YMX
50055 (C) A220-100 Jul 23, 2020 (51st -100 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-FOVL N136DQ On order, flight testing in YMX
50056 (C) A220-100 Sep 17, 2020 (52nd -100 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-FOWV N137DU On order, flight testing in YMX
55070 (U) A220-300 Jun 02, 2020 (80th -300 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-GPCA N302DU On order, painted, flight testing in BFM
55075 (U) A220-300 Jul 13, 2020 (84th -300 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-GPNB N303DU On order, flight testing in BFM
 
BowlingShoeDC9
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:56 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
BowlingShoeDC9 wrote:
I’ve been meaning to ask this... Are they cutting back 717’s out of DTW again after the new year? I know for DTW-MEM it looks like it switches back to CR9’s after the holidays for the rest of 2021.

This December might be my last time on a DC-9 derivative. :(

DL pulled the 717 flying from DTW in May, when they consolidated the remaining ~45 frames not put into storage to ATL, primarily to backfill a lot of the remaining MD88/90 out-and-back flying.
Going forward, DL plans to have 717 pilot bases in ATL & DTW. They previously said 30-45 active aircraft, with about an 80/20 split in flying between ATL & DTW. That said, those numbers were all given early-summer before any formal decision about the timeline of the 717 fleet.

717 flying is returning to DTW in October, on a few routes. I see them on some frequencies in BNA, RDU, PHL, CLT.

The future schedule is just a placeholder and doesn't reflect any reality. They are still actively updating the Nov schedule at this point. January and beyond for domestic still shows a lot of pre-covid.

I would expect there is going to continue to be some 717 flying out of DTW in 2021 considering its coming back in a few days.


I see thanks for the info. I guess its just a DTW-MEM thing. I just found it odd that it came back for a few weeks. Maybe they just haven’t gotten to adjusting December yet. I still find it strange though that the summer schedule is still CRJ only. Idk if that was pre-planned. The previous summer it was a mix of A319’s, CRJs, and maybe 717’s (I know 717’s flew MEM-DTW in summer ‘18 I can’t remember about 19). Who knows though. Everything could change tomorrow and then change again the next day.
 
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:34 am

yyztpa2 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
8 A220s are scheduled to ferry into SBD on Thu 10/1 for storage.
Haven't looked up tail numbers yet, but this indicates A220 flying will be significantly down for Oct.


Perhaps 6 x A221 from YMX and 2 x A223 from BFM delivery?

https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html
50051 (C) A220-100 Mar 07, 2020 (48th -100 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-FOVK N132DU On order, flight testing in YMX
50052 (C) A220-100 Mar 07, 2020 (47th -100 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-FOVP N133DU On order, flight testing in YMX
50053 (C) A220-100 Mar 22, 2020 (49th -100 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-FOWQ N134DU On order, flight testing in YMX
50054 (C) A220-100 Jun 23, 2020 (50th -100 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-FOUY N135DQ On order, flight testing in YMX
50055 (C) A220-100 Jul 23, 2020 (51st -100 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-FOVL N136DQ On order, flight testing in YMX
50056 (C) A220-100 Sep 17, 2020 (52nd -100 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-FOWV N137DU On order, flight testing in YMX
55070 (U) A220-300 Jun 02, 2020 (80th -300 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-GPCA N302DU On order, painted, flight testing in BFM
55075 (U) A220-300 Jul 13, 2020 (84th -300 to fly) Not yet Delta Air Lines DL/ DAL C-GPNB N303DU On order, flight testing in BFM


You may be on to something. The first A223 was supposed to ferry out of BFM on the 28th, but has since been pushed back indefinately.
 
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:53 am

BowlingShoeDC9 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
BowlingShoeDC9 wrote:
I’ve been meaning to ask this... Are they cutting back 717’s out of DTW again after the new year? I know for DTW-MEM it looks like it switches back to CR9’s after the holidays for the rest of 2021.

This December might be my last time on a DC-9 derivative. :(

DL pulled the 717 flying from DTW in May, when they consolidated the remaining ~45 frames not put into storage to ATL, primarily to backfill a lot of the remaining MD88/90 out-and-back flying.
Going forward, DL plans to have 717 pilot bases in ATL & DTW. They previously said 30-45 active aircraft, with about an 80/20 split in flying between ATL & DTW. That said, those numbers were all given early-summer before any formal decision about the timeline of the 717 fleet.

717 flying is returning to DTW in October, on a few routes. I see them on some frequencies in BNA, RDU, PHL, CLT.

The future schedule is just a placeholder and doesn't reflect any reality. They are still actively updating the Nov schedule at this point. January and beyond for domestic still shows a lot of pre-covid.

I would expect there is going to continue to be some 717 flying out of DTW in 2021 considering its coming back in a few days.


I see thanks for the info. I guess its just a DTW-MEM thing. I just found it odd that it came back for a few weeks. Maybe they just haven’t gotten to adjusting December yet. I still find it strange though that the summer schedule is still CRJ only. Idk if that was pre-planned. The previous summer it was a mix of A319’s, CRJs, and maybe 717’s (I know 717’s flew MEM-DTW in summer ‘18 I can’t remember about 19). Who knows though. Everything could change tomorrow and then change again the next day.

November schedule was just pulled down and updated this past weekend. December and beyond is not reflective of reality and is a default/placeholder schedule that in many cases still reflects pre-Covid. DL is only setting its schedule about 4-6 weeks in advance in the current environment.
 
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:55 am

The 8 A220s going to SBD are currently in-service frames as they are ferrying in from places like SEA, SLC, DFW, SNA.

Here are the ones I've found so far (5 / 8)
SEA-SBD 8101 N101DU
SNA-SBD 8105 N105DU
SFO-SBD 8107 N107DU
SEA-SBD 8114 N114DU
SLC-SBD 8128 N128DU
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:05 am

Do you have any explanation(s) why they would would be pulling them out of service now when pilot furloughs are delayed to 11/1?
 
Delta350
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:09 am

Is Delta going to push back the A223 inaugural flight bc of furloughs happening days before?
Plane Spotter from the Magic City and Hartsfield-Jackson...(ATL)
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:59 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
The 8 A220s going to SBD are currently in-service frames as they are ferrying in from places like SEA, SLC, DFW, SNA.

Here are the ones I've found so far (5 / 8)
SEA-SBD 8101 N101DU
SNA-SBD 8105 N105DU
SFO-SBD 8107 N107DU
SEA-SBD 8114 N114DU
SLC-SBD 8128 N128DU


Seeing 9 for tomorrow (as of this post) on FR24: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airp ... d/arrivals
N101DU
N102DU
N105DU
N106DU
N107DU
N113DQ
N114DU
N122DU
N128DU
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:04 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Do you have any explanation(s) why they would would be pulling them out of service now when pilot furloughs are delayed to 11/1?

My speculation is that the decision to not furlough was made so late in September, that the October schedule was already finalized, and bids awarded, all the flying was already effectively covered by other fleet types. It was too late to reverse any decisions on the amount of A220 flying for October. Thus they had already crews scheduled, and probably factored aircraft maintenance planning/schedules into it as to go ahead and park these 9 A220s for the time being.

With so much slack in other fleet types, easy to cover any of the flying that had been A220 previously.
 
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:20 am

Narrowbody updates week to-date:


Actual:
Mon 9/28 A321 MZJ-MSP 3043 N343DN (storage exit)
Tue 9/29 B739 MWH-ATL 3881 N881DN (storage exit)
Tue 9/29 A320 SBD-MSP 3248 N348NW (storage exit)
Tue 9/29 A320 SAL-SLC 3273 N373NW (maintenance exit, ferried BHM-SAL on 9/8)

Planned:
Thu 10/1 A320 SBD-MIA 3267 N367NW (storage exit)

Thu 10/1 A220 SEA-SBD 8101 N101DU (storage)
Thu 10/1 A220 DFW-SBD 8102 N102DU (storage)
Thu 10/1 A220 SNA-SBD 8105 N105DU (storage)
Thu 10/1 A220 SEA-SBD 8106 N106DU (storage)
Thu 10/1 A220 SFO-SBD 8107 N107DU (storage)
Thu 10/1 A220 SLC-SBD 8113 N113DQ (storage)
Thu 10/1 A220 SEA-SBD 8114 N114DU (storage)
Thu 10/1 A220 DFW-SBD 8122 N122DU (storage)
Thu 10/1 A220 SLC-SBD 8128 N128DU (storage)
A Skywest OO CR2 will ferry crews SBD-SLC
 
timf
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:31 pm

The rumor of Delta taking 40 white tail 737 MAX aircraft persists. It could be wishful thinking on Boeing's part, but if the deal is too good to pass up I could see Delta taking some -8s to replace more of the older A320s or 738s.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/boeing-court ... 26003.html
 
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:23 pm

timf wrote:
The rumor of Delta taking 40 white tail 737 MAX aircraft persists. It could be wishful thinking on Boeing's part, but if the deal is too good to pass up I could see Delta taking some -8s to replace more of the older A320s or 738s.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/boeing-court ... 26003.html

They just finally got rid of the one aircraft I avoided at all costs (MD-88). Don't tell me there's gonna be a new one in town. I've always been very passionate about being alive.
Careful, doors are closing, and will not reopen. Please wait for the next train.
 
gdavis003
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:46 pm

Two more VIP 752s headed to BHM tomorrow (N649DL, N666DN)
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:00 am

1005 exited MSP (ferried to DTW today): https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n105dx
 
gdavis003
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:30 am

N368NW to ferry BHM to SAL for maintenance tomorrow.
N666DN was supposed to ferry SLC-BHM the other day but ended up ferrying to SAN and then went to DFW. The Padres flew that route on Saturday to enter the Dallas postseason bubble, and a 767-400 flew that route as well. Guess they took a 764 and a 752, but anyways, that aircraft is going to go DFW to BHM tomorrow it looks like for storage
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:37 am

Narrowbody recap:

Last week - actual:
Mon 9/28 A321 MZJ-MSP 3043 N343DN (storage exit)
Tue 9/29 B739 MWH-ATL 3881 N881DN (storage exit)
Tue 9/29 A320 SBD-MSP 3248 N348NW (storage exit)
Tue 9/29 A320 SAL-SLC 3273 N373NW (maintenace exit, ferried BHM-SAL on 9/8)
Thu 10/1 A320 SBD-MIA 3267 N367NW (storage exit)

Thu 10/1 A220 SEA-SBD 8101 N101DU
Thu 10/1 A220 DFW-SBD 8102 N102DU
Thu 10/1 A220 SNA-SBD 8105 N105DU
Thu 10/1 A220 SEA-SBD 8106 N106DU
Thu 10/1 A220 SFO-SBD 8107 N107DU
Thu 10/1 A220 SLC-SBD 8113 N113DQ
Thu 10/1 A220 SEA-SBD 8114 N114DU
Thu 10/1 A220 DFW-SBD 8122 N122DU
Thu 10/1 A220 SLC-SBD 8128 N128DU
A Skywest OO CR2 ferried crews SBD-SLC

Fri 10/2 B752 PHX-BHM 649 N649DL (75C) (sports charter fleet - storage)
Sat 10/3 B753 QRO-ATL 5814 N584NW (storage & maintenance exit)

---

This week - actual
Sun 10/4 B753 ATL-QRO 5810 N590NW (maintenance) (5808, 5809, 5810 currently at QRO for maintenance)
Mon 10/5 A320 BHM-SAL 3268 N368NW (storage exit to maintenance)
Mon 10/5 A321 VCV-MSY 3065 N365DN (storage exit)
Mon 10/5 B752 VCV-VQQ 5638 N538US (75H) (storage exit to maintenance)
Mon 10/5 B752 DFW-BHM 665 N665DN (75C) (sports charter fleet - storage)

This week - planned:
Tue 10/6 A321 SBD-MSP 3060 N360DN (storage exit)
Tue 10/6 B752 VCV-QRO 6802 N703TW (75S) (storage exit to maintenance)
Wed 10/6 B752 MSP-BHM 661 N661DN (75C) (sports charter fleet - storage)
 
n515cr
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:49 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:03 pm

3060 now headed to MIA. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n360dn

Any idea why MSY/MIA have been recent exit destinations? I get VQQ/QRO/SAL, but these are new-ish ones...

Also, an unrelated question (maybe a dumb one) that hit my mind - is there / would there be a reason to pull all stored aircraft in an individual location before another one?
 
777Mech
Posts: 992
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:45 pm

n515cr wrote:
3060 now headed to MIA. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n360dn

Any idea why MSY/MIA have been recent exit destinations? I get VQQ/QRO/SAL, but these are new-ish ones...

Also, an unrelated question (maybe a dumb one) that hit my mind - is there / would there be a reason to pull all stored aircraft in an individual location before another one?


I don't have an answer for your second question, but the first question has to do with those 2 stations being an in-house line station. They're carrying out what is basically a PTS visit.
 
gdavis003
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:11 am

n515cr wrote:
3060 now headed to MIA. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n360dn

Any idea why MSY/MIA have been recent exit destinations? I get VQQ/QRO/SAL, but these are new-ish ones...

Also, an unrelated question (maybe a dumb one) that hit my mind - is there / would there be a reason to pull all stored aircraft in an individual location before another one?


Climate conditions would seem to be a possible answer to the second question. I haven't done the analysis but another question I was wondering is there a reason/rhyme as to why some aircraft of the same type are stored at one location as opposed to another? What determines what airport a specific a/c is stored at if that subfleet is being spread across numerous airports (e.g. why did N357NW go to SBD instead of BHM or MCI or VCV, other locations where A320s are stored?) There may not be an answer to the question other than that it's just random, but I'd be interested to know if someone does know
 
n515cr
Posts: 1809
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:49 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:29 am

777Mech wrote:
n515cr wrote:
3060 now headed to MIA. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n360dn

Any idea why MSY/MIA have been recent exit destinations? I get VQQ/QRO/SAL, but these are new-ish ones...

Also, an unrelated question (maybe a dumb one) that hit my mind - is there / would there be a reason to pull all stored aircraft in an individual location before another one?


I don't have an answer for your second question, but the first question has to do with those 2 stations being an in-house line station. They're carrying out what is basically a PTS visit.


Makes sense. Thanks for the info!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8139
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:35 am

Yes - while in most cases aircraft are being sent from storage to either a hub if they are to be reactivated, or a 3rd party maintenance facility if due for heavy maintenance, they are sending some on occasion to other stations with line maintenance. MIA, MSY, RDU, CVG, BOS have received aircraft returning from storage in addition to ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, LAX, JFK, SEA.

To the second question its fairly complex.
Going off of second and third hand information here...
The fleet was parked somewhat orderly but somewhat haphazardly based on trying to get certain sub fleets and frames in certain locations but also balancing what facilities were in a position to accept aircraft at the time. The mass-parking across all airlines was unprecedented and there was only so much throughput certain vendors/facilities could accept.

Then it comes down to the reactivation of aircraft based upon where its at in terms of its maintenance cycle, maintenance contracts, fleet/capacity planning, storage contracts/pricing, etc.

It looks like they will mostly be out of MWH & MCI probably by the end of the year / early 2021.
VCV, MZJ, SBD, BMH, ILN will have aircraft stored for a long time.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8139
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:37 am

Narrowbody updates, including another A321 delivery scheduled for Thurs.

Today - actual:
Tue 10/6 A321 SBD-MIA 3060 N360DN (storage exit)
Tue 10/6 B752 VCV-QRO 6802 N703TW (75S) (storage exit to maintenance)

Planned:
Wed 10/7 B752 MSP-BHM 661 N661DN (75C) (sports charter fleet - storage)
Wed 10/7 B752 VQQ-ATL 6713 N6713Y (75D) (storage & maintenance exit)

Thu 10/8 A321 BFM-MSP 1006 N106DN (new delivery)
Thu 10/8 B738 QRO-ATL 3710 N380DA (storage exit, ferried MWH-QRO 9/3)
 
n515cr
Posts: 1809
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:49 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:55 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
n515cr wrote:
3060 now headed to MIA. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n360dn

Any idea why MSY/MIA have been recent exit destinations? I get VQQ/QRO/SAL, but these are new-ish ones...

Also, an unrelated question (maybe a dumb one) that hit my mind - is there / would there be a reason to pull all stored aircraft in an individual location before another one?


Climate conditions would seem to be a possible answer to the second question. I haven't done the analysis but another question I was wondering is there a reason/rhyme as to why some aircraft of the same type are stored at one location as opposed to another? What determines what airport a specific a/c is stored at if that subfleet is being spread across numerous airports (e.g. why did N357NW go to SBD instead of BHM or MCI or VCV, other locations where A320s are stored?) There may not be an answer to the question other than that it's just random, but I'd be interested to know if someone does know


PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Yes - while in most cases aircraft are being sent from storage to either a hub if they are to be reactivated, or a 3rd party maintenance facility if due for heavy maintenance, they are sending some on occasion to other stations with line maintenance. MIA, MSY, RDU, CVG, BOS have received aircraft returning from storage in addition to ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, LAX, JFK, SEA.

To the second question its fairly complex.
Going off of second and third hand information here...
The fleet was parked somewhat orderly but somewhat haphazardly based on trying to get certain sub fleets and frames in certain locations but also balancing what facilities were in a position to accept aircraft at the time. The mass-parking across all airlines was unprecedented and there was only so much throughput certain vendors/facilities could accept.

Then it comes down to the reactivation of aircraft based upon where its at in terms of its maintenance cycle, maintenance contracts, fleet/capacity planning, storage contracts/pricing, etc.

It looks like they will mostly be out of MWH & MCI probably by the end of the year / early 2021.
VCV, MZJ, SBD, BMH, ILN will have aircraft stored for a long time.

Thanks, both of you, for your commentary. The same thoughts were circling in my head...you both did a better job of articulating them.

A good examples is 3061, which exited MCI yesterday: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n361dn. It was the sole remaining 321 at MCI (9 aircraft are still at MCI, and 1 of those has been wfu)
 
gdavis003
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: Delta Narrow Body Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:46 pm

Somebody probably knows this on here so figured I would ask. What is the story of Delta and the E190? Can't seem to find any good articles on it, except that Delta was going to add 16 of them, but then they seemingly never entered the fleet. Seems like an interesting story but can't seem to find much about it. Thanks in advance
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