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skipness1E
Posts: 4780
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:51 am

standby87 wrote:
tonystan wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
Manchester is a far more user friendly airport than Heathrow. The British and Americans will be thrilled.


MAN is a hideous airport to use. The worst security experience of any airport in Europe in my opinion. I avoid it at all costs preferring to take the train or even drive from London.

Heathrow has transformed itself immensely in the last 11 years. It’s almost a pleasure to use and transit through.


MAN definitely has the worst security experience in Europe - or indeed Africa, Middle East or Asia...for that matter.
I too boycott Manchester Airport due to the Security experience.

Back on topic:
BA jumped off the boat and will never catch up.
The ME3 have effectively carved up the Eastbound longhaul market from MAN.
Best would be a MAN-JFK, but let's throw a curveball in ... MAN-BKK.

Yeah, Bangkok. Why not? I am sure I read somewhere MAN-BKK was the World's Largest O+D in terms of passengers with no Direct Service.
Someone correct me please!!

It would need to command a premium for being non stop, in a market where the ME3 have the one stop sewn up and frequency is much higher. Added to this, yields are (allegedly) low, there's no ROI. Volume does not automatically equate to profitability, indeed BA gave up on Ireland for years, dropping LHR-DUB/BFS even though DUB was one of the busiest routes in Europe.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1113
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:01 pm

BA777FO wrote:
Those that would be responsible for actually organising and orchestrating this kind of thing say it's not happening.


You’ve changed your story again.

Initially, you said that BA quash this internally, to which I pointed out that the CEO had made public comments contradicting that.

You then tried to distinguish between what is said in public and internally (which I accept can differ - it would be stupid of me not to) to which I highlighted that the CEO stated that his public comments were the same as those he made to his staff (ie internally).

You then claimed that the CEO hadn’t talked to his staff for a while - unless you’re his PA I have no idea how you can say that with any credibility and I don’t see how that is relevant to any of the issues.

You now say that this is nothing to do with the CEO and his words can be ignored.

You’ve been so desperate not to concede a blindingly obvious point, that you are in the absurd position of trying to arguing that a CEO is not responsible for the decisions taken by his company.

BA777FO wrote:
Except there's nothing to concede.


I trust this is not an honestly held belief.
 
BA777FO
Posts: 570
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Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:43 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
Those that would be responsible for actually organising and orchestrating this kind of thing say it's not happening.


You’ve changed your story again.

Initially, you said that BA quash this internally, to which I pointed out that the CEO had made public comments contradicting that.

You then tried to distinguish between what is said in public and internally (which I accept can differ - it would be stupid of me not to) to which I highlighted that the CEO stated that his public comments were the same as those he made to his staff (ie internally).

You then claimed that the CEO hadn’t talked to his staff for a while - unless you’re his PA I have no idea how you can say that with any credibility and I don’t see how that is relevant to any of the issues.

You now say that this is nothing to do with the CEO and his words can be ignored.

You’ve been so desperate not to concede a blindingly obvious point, that you are in the absurd position of trying to arguing that a CEO is not responsible for the decisions taken by his company.

BA777FO wrote:
Except there's nothing to concede.


I trust this is not an honestly held belief.


There's nothing inconsistent. This question crops up every year - BA still employs a lot of crew that were based in Manchester, Glasgow etc and this is one of the most frequent questions during internal comms events and on Yammer. It is always quashed, not only by the likes of Alex or Klaus, the COO, but those that would do the legwork on these kind of projects like the slot coordinators, network planners and revenue managers. Never said the CEO could be ignored, but it's true that the legwork to carry out a Manchester operation would be from Global Ops, network planners, revenue management and even Flight Ops would need to crew the operation (Flight Ops is also in charge of the hotels budget so if a 100+ hotel rooms were needed they'd have to be informed too!). This isn't happening.

Alex hasn't talked much for a while, no. He made a big song and dance when he first joined on internal channels of #meetAlex - that hasn't happened in a while! In a Q3 results Q&A at Waterside however Alex said, in a question regarding Manchester bases, "At this stage, we have no plans to develop regional bases beyond the flying already undertaken." That was just at the end of Q3. So I reckon that's pretty definitive.

Like I said, let me know when I can bid to fly these routes ;)
 
JayBCN
Posts: 57
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Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:11 pm

But who will want to go to Post Brexit Britain?
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1113
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:38 pm

BA777FO wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
Those that would be responsible for actually organising and orchestrating this kind of thing say it's not happening.


You’ve changed your story again.

Initially, you said that BA quash this internally, to which I pointed out that the CEO had made public comments contradicting that.

You then tried to distinguish between what is said in public and internally (which I accept can differ - it would be stupid of me not to) to which I highlighted that the CEO stated that his public comments were the same as those he made to his staff (ie internally).

You then claimed that the CEO hadn’t talked to his staff for a while - unless you’re his PA I have no idea how you can say that with any credibility and I don’t see how that is relevant to any of the issues.

You now say that this is nothing to do with the CEO and his words can be ignored.

You’ve been so desperate not to concede a blindingly obvious point, that you are in the absurd position of trying to arguing that a CEO is not responsible for the decisions taken by his company.

BA777FO wrote:
Except there's nothing to concede.


I trust this is not an honestly held belief.


There's nothing inconsistent. This question crops up every year - BA still employs a lot of crew that were based in Manchester, Glasgow etc and this is one of the most frequent questions during internal comms events and on Yammer. It is always quashed, not only by the likes of Alex or Klaus, the COO, but those that would do the legwork on these kind of projects like the slot coordinators, network planners and revenue managers. Never said the CEO could be ignored, but it's true that the legwork to carry out a Manchester operation would be from Global Ops, network planners, revenue management and even Flight Ops would need to crew the operation (Flight Ops is also in charge of the hotels budget so if a 100+ hotel rooms were needed they'd have to be informed too!). This isn't happening.

Alex hasn't talked much for a while, no. He made a big song and dance when he first joined on internal channels of #meetAlex - that hasn't happened in a while! In a Q3 results Q&A at Waterside however Alex said, in a question regarding Manchester bases, "At this stage, we have no plans to develop regional bases beyond the flying already undertaken." That was just at the end of Q3. So I reckon that's pretty definitive.

Like I said, let me know when I can bid to fly these routes ;)


Remember, I agree with you that this is not likely to happen. I’ve been relaying the fact of what (apparently) your boss has been saying, and what the ordinary meaning of these words are. You have been contorting yourself because you are too proud to acknowledge that not everything you have said is correct.

As I say, when you refuse to accept obvious points and change your position at each turn there is no reason to think the rest of what you say is accurate. It does you and the organisation you purport to represent no favours.
 
by738
Posts: 3090
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:16 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:

You’ve changed your story again.

Initially, you said that BA quash this internally, to which I pointed out that the CEO had made public comments contradicting that.

You then tried to distinguish between what is said in public and internally (which I accept can differ - it would be stupid of me not to) to which I highlighted that the CEO stated that his public comments were the same as those he made to his staff (ie internally).

You then claimed that the CEO hadn’t talked to his staff for a while - unless you’re his PA I have no idea how you can say that with any credibility and I don’t see how that is relevant to any of the issues.

You now say that this is nothing to do with the CEO and his words can be ignored.

You’ve been so desperate not to concede a blindingly obvious point, that you are in the absurd position of trying to arguing that a CEO is not responsible for the decisions taken by his company.



I trust this is not an honestly held belief.


There's nothing inconsistent. This question crops up every year - BA still employs a lot of crew that were based in Manchester, Glasgow etc and this is one of the most frequent questions during internal comms events and on Yammer. It is always quashed, not only by the likes of Alex or Klaus, the COO, but those that would do the legwork on these kind of projects like the slot coordinators, network planners and revenue managers. Never said the CEO could be ignored, but it's true that the legwork to carry out a Manchester operation would be from Global Ops, network planners, revenue management and even Flight Ops would need to crew the operation (Flight Ops is also in charge of the hotels budget so if a 100+ hotel rooms were needed they'd have to be informed too!). This isn't happening.

Alex hasn't talked much for a while, no. He made a big song and dance when he first joined on internal channels of #meetAlex - that hasn't happened in a while! In a Q3 results Q&A at Waterside however Alex said, in a question regarding Manchester bases, "At this stage, we have no plans to develop regional bases beyond the flying already undertaken." That was just at the end of Q3. So I reckon that's pretty definitive.

Like I said, let me know when I can bid to fly these routes ;)


Remember, I agree with you that this is not likely to happen. I’ve been relaying the fact of what (apparently) your boss has been saying, and what the ordinary meaning of these words are. You have been contorting yourself because you are too proud to acknowledge that not everything you have said is correct.

As I say, when you refuse to accept obvious points and change your position at each turn there is no reason to think the rest of what you say is accurate. It does you and the organisation you purport to represent no favours.


Seems a little harsh /OTT... Do you have any internal employee info to offer?
 
speedbird52
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:32 pm

jamsco99 wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
Manchester is a far more user friendly airport than Heathrow. The British and Americans will be thrilled.


Never used it. Have used Stansted which is owned my MAG and stansted is without doubt the worst London airport aimed at the lowest common denominator of flyer

I assume you mean poor people? Not a very decent way to refer to them...
 
lhrnue
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:08 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Manchester is a far more user friendly airport than Heathrow. The British and Americans will be thrilled.


Hahahahahhahaha .... have you ever passed security in Terminal 3?
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1113
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:52 pm

by738 wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
BA777FO wrote:

There's nothing inconsistent. This question crops up every year - BA still employs a lot of crew that were based in Manchester, Glasgow etc and this is one of the most frequent questions during internal comms events and on Yammer. It is always quashed, not only by the likes of Alex or Klaus, the COO, but those that would do the legwork on these kind of projects like the slot coordinators, network planners and revenue managers. Never said the CEO could be ignored, but it's true that the legwork to carry out a Manchester operation would be from Global Ops, network planners, revenue management and even Flight Ops would need to crew the operation (Flight Ops is also in charge of the hotels budget so if a 100+ hotel rooms were needed they'd have to be informed too!). This isn't happening.

Alex hasn't talked much for a while, no. He made a big song and dance when he first joined on internal channels of #meetAlex - that hasn't happened in a while! In a Q3 results Q&A at Waterside however Alex said, in a question regarding Manchester bases, "At this stage, we have no plans to develop regional bases beyond the flying already undertaken." That was just at the end of Q3. So I reckon that's pretty definitive.

Like I said, let me know when I can bid to fly these routes ;)


Remember, I agree with you that this is not likely to happen. I’ve been relaying the fact of what (apparently) your boss has been saying, and what the ordinary meaning of these words are. You have been contorting yourself because you are too proud to acknowledge that not everything you have said is correct.

As I say, when you refuse to accept obvious points and change your position at each turn there is no reason to think the rest of what you say is accurate. It does you and the organisation you purport to represent no favours.


Seems a little harsh /OTT... Do you have any internal employee info to offer?


That is certainly not my intention - I think BA777FO has interesting things to share and I enjoy reading their posts.

Having said that, no one person has a monopoly on knowledge - each poster has different strengths and weaknesses that they bring to the table. I value accurate information and it is disappointing to have reason to believe some of the material I’ve enjoyed reading may not be as accurate as I’d previously thought.

Anyway - this thread is a shambles. It has drifted so far off topic and the topic itself generates such hysteria and nonsense it might as well be locked.
 
Fiend
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:53 pm

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:52 pm

standby87 wrote:
tonystan wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
Manchester is a far more user friendly airport than Heathrow. The British and Americans will be thrilled.


MAN is a hideous airport to use. The worst security experience of any airport in Europe in my opinion. I avoid it at all costs preferring to take the train or even drive from London.

Heathrow has transformed itself immensely in the last 11 years. It’s almost a pleasure to use and transit through.


MAN definitely has the worst security experience in Europe - or indeed Africa, Middle East or Asia...for that matter.
I too boycott Manchester Airport due to the Security experience.

Back on topic:
BA jumped off the boat and will never catch up.
The ME3 have effectively carved up the Eastbound longhaul market from MAN.
Best would be a MAN-JFK, but let's throw a curveball in ... MAN-BKK.

Yeah, Bangkok. Why not? I am sure I read somewhere MAN-BKK was the World's Largest O+D in terms of passengers with no Direct Service.
Someone correct me please!!


I have no problems with security at MAN.... To me the biggest problem is queues at Border Control with not enough open booths...... But I don't boycott the airport because of it...

MAN - BKK? Strong rumours that TG are wanting to do it.
BAC 1-11, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, A350, A380, B737, B747, B757, B777, B787, L1011, Fokker 100, ATR 72, MD83
 
User avatar
Aisak
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:56 am

Fiend wrote:
I have no problems with security at MAN.... To me the biggest problem is queues at Border Control with not enough open booths......

My fear is that problems at Border Control will not disappear but grow in a few months. Now, passengers from 27 nationalities just can cross the border by just showing a valid National ID card or old-fashion passport, no questions asked.
The Border police came up with the wonderful idea of automated booths. but only EU Citizens over 18 holding a state-of-the-art quite expensive e-passport, could use. So people with just ordinary IDs won’t get a new passport issued unless needed for non-EEA travel, and won’t use those gates, so queues won’t get any sorter.
Luckily, the UK now trusts Nationals from 7 non-EU countries to use those gates for the typical visa-free 90day visit.
But we can only imagine how long queues will be if/when the formal inmigration procedure starts on every single passenger from EU27. Luckily for the UK Citizens, it is to expect the “UK lane” to be much faster than the “rest of the world lane”
 
User avatar
PacoMartin
Posts: 904
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 8:18 pm

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:53 am

standby87 wrote:
Yeah, Bangkok. Why not? I am sure I read somewhere MAN-BKK was the World's Largest O+D in terms of passengers with no Direct Service. Someone correct me please!!


It was the third-largest O&D without nonstop service in 2015. It is very unlikely that this ranking has changed in the last four years. BKK-MAN is probably still the largest unserved market involving Europe.

Statute miles
8,159 LAX-SGN Los Angeles - Ho Chi Minh City
7,867 DAC-JFK Dhaka - New York
5,966 BKK-MAN Bangkok - Manchester

The LAX-SGN is unlikely to be serviced soon as United Airlines has only three flights over 8000 statute miles. American and Delta are even less likely to service this route
8596 IAH - SYD
8446 SFO - SIN
8065 EWR - HKG


SGN served 38.5 million passengers in 2018, but their only year-round destination in Europe is Paris.
 
BA777FO
Posts: 570
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Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:07 am

DobboDobbo wrote:
by738 wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:

Remember, I agree with you that this is not likely to happen. I’ve been relaying the fact of what (apparently) your boss has been saying, and what the ordinary meaning of these words are. You have been contorting yourself because you are too proud to acknowledge that not everything you have said is correct.

As I say, when you refuse to accept obvious points and change your position at each turn there is no reason to think the rest of what you say is accurate. It does you and the organisation you purport to represent no favours.


Seems a little harsh /OTT... Do you have any internal employee info to offer?


That is certainly not my intention - I think BA777FO has interesting things to share and I enjoy reading their posts.

Having said that, no one person has a monopoly on knowledge - each poster has different strengths and weaknesses that they bring to the table. I value accurate information and it is disappointing to have reason to believe some of the material I’ve enjoyed reading may not be as accurate as I’d previously thought.

Anyway - this thread is a shambles. It has drifted so far off topic and the topic itself generates such hysteria and nonsense it might as well be locked.


You're right, it has become a shambles because you refuse to accept that in response to a staff Q&A after the Q3 results Alex Cruz literally said, and I quote, as I did before, "At this stage, we have no plans to develop regional bases beyond the flying already." That isn't ambiguous, it's not contorted or inaccurate, it's plain for everyone to see. I fail to understand your agenda behind ignoring a statement that has consistently represented my point: internally this has been and still is being denied that anything approaching additional regional flying is going to happen any time soon.

Given that what I've said is based upon a transcript from an internal staff Q&A after Q3 results I don't see how you can claim with any credibility that what I've said might be inaccurate. Seems cut and dry to me. I'm not sure why you can't accept that. This has indeed run its course.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1113
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:18 am

BA777FO wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
by738 wrote:

Seems a little harsh /OTT... Do you have any internal employee info to offer?


That is certainly not my intention - I think BA777FO has interesting things to share and I enjoy reading their posts.

Having said that, no one person has a monopoly on knowledge - each poster has different strengths and weaknesses that they bring to the table. I value accurate information and it is disappointing to have reason to believe some of the material I’ve enjoyed reading may not be as accurate as I’d previously thought.

Anyway - this thread is a shambles. It has drifted so far off topic and the topic itself generates such hysteria and nonsense it might as well be locked.


You're right, it has become a shambles because you refuse to accept that in response to a staff Q&A after the Q3 results Alex Cruz literally said, and I quote, as I did before, "At this stage, we have no plans to develop regional bases beyond the flying already." That isn't ambiguous, it's not contorted or inaccurate, it's plain for everyone to see. I fail to understand your agenda behind ignoring a statement that has consistently represented my point: internally this has been and still is being denied that anything approaching additional regional flying is going to happen any time soon.

Given that what I've said is based upon a transcript from an internal staff Q&A after Q3 results I don't see how you can claim with any credibility that what I've said might be inaccurate. Seems cut and dry to me. I'm not sure why you can't accept that. This has indeed run its course.


You’ve changed your story once again!

No agenda other than accuracy. I’ve accepted your conclusion - which is one I’ve always agreed with. What cannot be accepted is your ambiguous interpretation of an unambiguous statement and your refusal to accept what is written in black and white.


“Given what I've said is based upon a transcript”

Given your track record and shifting position, I think your interpretation of a transcript can be taken with a pinch of salt.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8266
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:39 am

PacoMartin wrote:
standby87 wrote:
Yeah, Bangkok. Why not? I am sure I read somewhere MAN-BKK was the World's Largest O+D in terms of passengers with no Direct Service. Someone correct me please!!


It was the third-largest O&D without nonstop service in 2015. It is very unlikely that this ranking has changed in the last four years. BKK-MAN is probably still the largest unserved market involving Europe.

Statute miles
8,159 LAX-SGN Los Angeles - Ho Chi Minh City
7,867 DAC-JFK Dhaka - New York
5,966 BKK-MAN Bangkok - Manchester

The LAX-SGN is unlikely to be serviced soon as United Airlines has only three flights over 8000 statute miles. American and Delta are even less likely to service this route
8596 IAH - SYD
8446 SFO - SIN
8065 EWR - HKG


SGN served 38.5 million passengers in 2018, but their only year-round destination in Europe is Paris.


SGN has year-round service to CDG, LHR and FRA in Western Europe, plus SVO and IST.

MAN-BKK has been rumoured/on someone's wishlist for as long as I can remember, at least 15 years. The strong presence of the ME3 in the MAN market (and to a lessor extent WY and TK, not to mention one-stops with BA/AF/KL/LH/LX/AY) means that it is unlikely to happen. While there is oodles of demand, most of it is flying at the back of the bus.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
BA777FO
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:53 am

DobboDobbo wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:

That is certainly not my intention - I think BA777FO has interesting things to share and I enjoy reading their posts.

Having said that, no one person has a monopoly on knowledge - each poster has different strengths and weaknesses that they bring to the table. I value accurate information and it is disappointing to have reason to believe some of the material I’ve enjoyed reading may not be as accurate as I’d previously thought.

Anyway - this thread is a shambles. It has drifted so far off topic and the topic itself generates such hysteria and nonsense it might as well be locked.


You're right, it has become a shambles because you refuse to accept that in response to a staff Q&A after the Q3 results Alex Cruz literally said, and I quote, as I did before, "At this stage, we have no plans to develop regional bases beyond the flying already." That isn't ambiguous, it's not contorted or inaccurate, it's plain for everyone to see. I fail to understand your agenda behind ignoring a statement that has consistently represented my point: internally this has been and still is being denied that anything approaching additional regional flying is going to happen any time soon.

Given that what I've said is based upon a transcript from an internal staff Q&A after Q3 results I don't see how you can claim with any credibility that what I've said might be inaccurate. Seems cut and dry to me. I'm not sure why you can't accept that. This has indeed run its course.


You’ve changed your story once again!

No agenda other than accuracy. I’ve accepted your conclusion - which is one I’ve always agreed with. What cannot be accepted is your ambiguous interpretation of an unambiguous statement and your refusal to accept what is written in black and white.


“Given what I've said is based upon a transcript”

Given your track record and shifting position, I think your interpretation of a transcript can be taken with a pinch of salt.


Yes. Based upon a quote from a transcript, a document that details what was said word for word. You're making my point for me :lol: My story has been absolutely consistent:

Internally this has been denied by Cruz: proof within transcript from Q3 Q&A.
Internally denied on Yammer by slot executives and Global Ops.

There's nothing else to it. You've refused to accept my consistent line that this has been denied internally because you cannot accept anything other than "not yet" by a man whose English is a second language means that you cannot accept reality that this has been absolutely denied internally and that it's not happening. That you keep fabricating that I've changed my stance reveals more about you than me.

Think we're done. Bye bye.
 
Internaute
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:08 pm

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:18 am

An unsubstantiated and unsourced rumour on a single (albeit quality) blog.

Also an emotive subject. Clearly.

And now four pages of conjecture and unsubstantiated opinion, and increasingly aggressive argument.

Anet at its best. Pffft.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1383
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:00 am

Fiend wrote:
I have no problems with security at MAN.... To me the biggest problem is queues at Border Control with not enough open booths...... But I don't boycott the airport because of it...


Isn't that the responsibility by Border Force instead of the airport?

The last couple of times I've flown into MAN from outside the CTA I've been directed to an eGate. I guess the queues are also down to how many flights arrive at once, how many passengers are on board and what the nationality/passport holder mix is of those passengers.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1113
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:15 pm

BA777FO wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
BA777FO wrote:

You're right, it has become a shambles because you refuse to accept that in response to a staff Q&A after the Q3 results Alex Cruz literally said, and I quote, as I did before, "At this stage, we have no plans to develop regional bases beyond the flying already." That isn't ambiguous, it's not contorted or inaccurate, it's plain for everyone to see. I fail to understand your agenda behind ignoring a statement that has consistently represented my point: internally this has been and still is being denied that anything approaching additional regional flying is going to happen any time soon.

Given that what I've said is based upon a transcript from an internal staff Q&A after Q3 results I don't see how you can claim with any credibility that what I've said might be inaccurate. Seems cut and dry to me. I'm not sure why you can't accept that. This has indeed run its course.


You’ve changed your story once again!

No agenda other than accuracy. I’ve accepted your conclusion - which is one I’ve always agreed with. What cannot be accepted is your ambiguous interpretation of an unambiguous statement and your refusal to accept what is written in black and white.


“Given what I've said is based upon a transcript”

Given your track record and shifting position, I think your interpretation of a transcript can be taken with a pinch of salt.


Yes. Based upon a quote from a transcript, a document that details what was said word for word. You're making my point for me :lol: My story has been absolutely consistent:

Internally this has been denied by Cruz: proof within transcript from Q3 Q&A.
Internally denied on Yammer by slot executives and Global Ops.

There's nothing else to it. You've refused to accept my consistent line that this has been denied internally because you cannot accept anything other than "not yet" by a man whose English is a second language means that you cannot accept reality that this has been absolutely denied internally and that it's not happening. That you keep fabricating that I've changed my stance reveals more about you than me.

Think we're done. Bye bye.


You have changed your story yet again.

You are now accusing the boss of BA of being unable to choose his words because his grasp of English is not good enough. Is is embarrassing that you feel the need to do this rather than accept the words were spoken, in public and in private, and admit the ordinary meaning of what those words mean.

To reiterate - my position has been that the words “not yet” are not the same as “quashed”. That has not changed. It is embarrassing that you are unable or unwilling to see the difference between this and keep blaming others or making unsubstantiated assertions in order to deflect from that central truth.

You are yet to provide any evidence of your assertions that are capable of being verified. In circumstances where you have demonstrated that you have demonstrably ignored obvious facts, why should anyone treat your assertions as reliable.

I don’t think this serves any further purpose - who knows who you’ll blame next and how!
 
Fiend
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:53 pm

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:55 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
Fiend wrote:
I have no problems with security at MAN.... To me the biggest problem is queues at Border Control with not enough open booths...... But I don't boycott the airport because of it...


Isn't that the responsibility by Border Force instead of the airport?

The last couple of times I've flown into MAN from outside the CTA I've been directed to an eGate. I guess the queues are also down to how many flights arrive at once, how many passengers are on board and what the nationality/passport holder mix is of those passengers.


Yes, that's the responsibility of Border force and not the airport...... I travel with a Non-EU Passport holding spouse and arrive from outside the EU.

I find it amusing the number of posters in this thread slagging off security at MAN..... In my experience I have found getting through security to be a lot worse at BKK, DXB and AUH.
BAC 1-11, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, A350, A380, B737, B747, B757, B777, B787, L1011, Fokker 100, ATR 72, MD83
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9391
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:37 pm

There are two points to the discussion here.

One, will British Airways operate long haul flights from Manchester in the future. That is of course only for British Airways to decide and there can be arguments for and against that we or at least I are not aware off.
One argument I do not accept, BA has done it before, stopped it and therefore will never try again. There are quite a few routes BA has flown, stopped and started again in due time, situations change, business models change.

The other discussion is slagging MAN with strange or crazy arguments. The situation of MAN is for example not comparable to the secondary airports in France. There are no comparable sized airports in france outside of Paris. France has a tip top high speed rail network, whereas trains in the UK seem to be crawling and motorways are congested. There is a lot more domestic flying done in the UK, than in France.
MAN is manly leisure travelers is the argument. Every airport is mainly leisure travelers. LGW is comparable in the percentage of leisure travelers only it is 40 % bigger.
The catchment for MAN is to small is an argument. MAN has 28+ million passengers and is growing.
No travelers will do long haul from MAN. Other airlines do.
Manchester has slow immigration and security. I have seen 4 hours delay at immigration at LHR and missed flights due to slow security there. LHR may be ok if you connect inside an alliance, but the airline I fly into LHR, FI, is not part of an alliance and connecting in LHR is the terror.

I can go on. Yes, BA will perhaps never take up serious flying from MAN again, but there is no need to slagg the airport to make an argument.
It also seems that BA and Aer Lingus do not get a big part of the potential customers from MAN through their hubs. If I compare it with Germany and Lufthansa we can see treble the frequency of flights from airports including HAM, TXL and STR to MUC and FRA, compared to BA and EI to LHR and DUB.
 
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Nomadd
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:26 pm

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:55 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Manchester is a far more user friendly airport than Heathrow. The British and Americans will be thrilled.

In 56 countries and over 200 airports, Manchester was the worst I ever encountered. And that includes Iquitos.
 
BA777FO
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:59 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
There is a lot more domestic flying done in the UK, than in France.


That's not actually true. The UK domestic air market is only the 5th largest in the EU28 after Spain, Italy, France and Germany (Eurostat, 2016).
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... l8GQGPKQ2d

Just a point of order, nothing else to add ;)
 
tonystan
Posts: 1702
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:06 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:

You’ve changed your story once again!

No agenda other than accuracy. I’ve accepted your conclusion - which is one I’ve always agreed with. What cannot be accepted is your ambiguous interpretation of an unambiguous statement and your refusal to accept what is written in black and white.


“Given what I've said is based upon a transcript”

Given your track record and shifting position, I think your interpretation of a transcript can be taken with a pinch of salt.


Yes. Based upon a quote from a transcript, a document that details what was said word for word. You're making my point for me :lol: My story has been absolutely consistent:

Internally this has been denied by Cruz: proof within transcript from Q3 Q&A.
Internally denied on Yammer by slot executives and Global Ops.

There's nothing else to it. You've refused to accept my consistent line that this has been denied internally because you cannot accept anything other than "not yet" by a man whose English is a second language means that you cannot accept reality that this has been absolutely denied internally and that it's not happening. That you keep fabricating that I've changed my stance reveals more about you than me.

Think we're done. Bye bye.


You have changed your story yet again.

You are now accusing the boss of BA of being unable to choose his words because his grasp of English is not good enough. Is is embarrassing that you feel the need to do this rather than accept the words were spoken, in public and in private, and admit the ordinary meaning of what those words mean.

To reiterate - my position has been that the words “not yet” are not the same as “quashed”. That has not changed. It is embarrassing that you are unable or unwilling to see the difference between this and keep blaming others or making unsubstantiated assertions in order to deflect from that central truth.

You are yet to provide any evidence of your assertions that are capable of being verified. In circumstances where you have demonstrated that you have demonstrably ignored obvious facts, why should anyone treat your assertions as reliable.

I don’t think this serves any further purpose - who knows who you’ll blame next and how!


Ah here lads, would you just go get a room or something? Or at least Dobbo, go bury that bone somewhere and move on.

BA ain’t announcing any MAN expansion any time soon!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
 
User001
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:43 pm

That VS news is old. Was announced back in November.
 
CrawleyBen
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:22 am

Re: Rumor: British Airways To Launch Long-Haul Flights From Manchester

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:19 pm

Aisak wrote:
Fiend wrote:
I have no problems with security at MAN.... To me the biggest problem is queues at Border Control with not enough open booths......

My fear is that problems at Border Control will not disappear but grow in a few months. Now, passengers from 27 nationalities just can cross the border by just showing a valid National ID card or old-fashion passport, no questions asked.
The Border police came up with the wonderful idea of automated booths. but only EU Citizens over 18 holding a state-of-the-art quite expensive e-passport, could use. So people with just ordinary IDs won’t get a new passport issued unless needed for non-EEA travel, and won’t use those gates, so queues won’t get any sorter.
Luckily, the UK now trusts Nationals from 7 non-EU countries to use those gates for the typical visa-free 90day visit.
But we can only imagine how long queues will be if/when the formal inmigration procedure starts on every single passenger from EU27. Luckily for the UK Citizens, it is to expect the “UK lane” to be much faster than the “rest of the world lane”


Non-visa Nationals can stay in the UK for maximum of 6 months at present, not 90 days (as visitors)

Nothing much will change in terms of arrivals at the Border Control from the EU/EEA after Brexit, and said nationals will still be able to use the e-gates (where they are in use at UK airports)

Ben

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