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PacoMartin
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Posts: 901
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 8:18 pm

widebody usage

Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:54 pm

I never noticed this schedule that United publishes of their widebody schedule. It is an aide to people who want to ship cargo.
https://www.unitedcargo.com/ShowFiles?f ... debody.pdf

It includes widebody flights both domestic and international

With a little bit of effort I was able to produce some statistical results for widebody usage at United for January 2020.

The table is by equipment, average flights per day, number of routes over the course of the month, and the average number of statute miles.

Eqp   P-d   rtes   Avg mile
763    22.4    24   3,368
764    48.3    64   3,392
777   115.6   125   4,618
787    63.1    73   5,226
all   249.4   286   4,394


In particular, I was interested in looking at subset of routes under 2500 statute miles. These are routes that could easily be served by single-aisle jets. In the future with XLR jets this threshold will more than likely be 4000-5000 miles
Eqp   P-d   rtes   Avg mile
763    6.9    8   1,316
764    5.7   12   1,038
777   23.1   28   1,842
787    8.6   10   2,068
all   44.3   58   1,642


The relatively large number of 777s under 2500 miles is due to United configuring 777-200 as C28Y336 for the first class passengers who want lie-flat seats for domestic flights.
Last edited by PacoMartin on Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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UPlog
Posts: 573
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: widebody usage

Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:00 pm

January is a very slow period with lots of slack and why planes do random domestic stuff also.
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STT757
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Re: widebody usage

Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:07 pm

I check that all the time , it has their narrow body and regional jet flights too. However there are some inaccuracies, mainly with the 767s . It lists some 764 flights as 767-300 and vice versa.


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MIflyer12
Posts: 8261
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: widebody usage

Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:30 pm

Every route under 2500sm could be flown by UA 738s, 752s or 753s today if they wanted to. They're on 777s - aircraft on which UA spent $ to reconfigure for domestic services - because UA wants the capacity. The idea that all routes 2500 ~4500sm will be taken over by 321XLRs is unfounded - just baseless. Look at the widebody count in short-haul Japan and China services, for example.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: widebody usage

Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:33 am

I slightly modified the table to include widebodies under 2566 statute miles since these two routes are important to United
2565 miles SFO - EWR
2556 miles HNL - LAX

Eqp Pday rts   Avg mile
763    6.9    8   1,316
764    5.7   12   1,038
777   29.1   34   1,969
787   12.6   15   2,234
all   54.3   69   1,789


MIflyer12 wrote:
Every route under 2500sm could be flown by UA 738s, 752s or 753s today if they wanted to. They're on 777s - aircraft on which UA spent $ to reconfigure for domestic services - because UA wants the capacity. The idea that all routes 2500 ~4500sm will be taken over by 321XLRs is unfounded - just baseless. Look at the widebody count in short-haul Japan and China services, for example.


I agree that the idea that all routes within the range of narrow-bodies will be flown by narrow-bodies. But up until today, I have never seen a good estimate of what percentage of short flights are flown with widebodies. This table tells me that roughly 20% of United flights on widebodies are 2566 statute miles or less. It would be interesting to compare that with the other airlines if there was some way to get that data.

I also thought that it was interesting that 191 United Widebodies are scheduled for an average of 250 flights per day. While it is not particularly shocking that the average widebody flies less than 2 times per day, given the 54 flights per day 2566 miles or less, you would think that the average would be closer to 2.

For the true data dweeb here are the 50 longest United flights (number of times per week scheduled for January 2020

Miles US - Foreign #
8596 IAH - SYD 7
8446 SFO - SIN 14
8065 EWR - HKG 2
7921 LAX - MEL 7
7855 SFO - MEL 3
7817 EWR - CPT 3
7807 EWR - BOM 7
7706 SFO - DEL 7
7488 LAX - SYD 7
7422 SFO - TLV 7
7417 SFO - SYD 7
7384 EWR - PVG 7
7324 EWR - DEL 7
7057 ORD - PVG 6
6927 SFO - HKG 14
6921 IAD - PEK 7
6870 SFO - CTU 3
6831 EWR - PEK 7
6753 IAD - NRT 7
6732 EWR - NRT 7
6643 IAH - NRT 7
6579 ORD - PEK 7
6516 SFO - AKL 7
6485 LAX - PVG 7
6469 SFO - TPE 7
6274 ORD - NRT 7
6151 SFO - PVG 14
5913 SFO - PEK 7
5904 IAD - TLV 3
5879 SFO - MUC 5
5787 DEN - NRT 7
5699 SFO - FRA 14
5692 EWR - TLV 14
5658 SFO - ICN 7
5583 SFO - CDG 5
5456 LAX - LHR 7
5451 LAX - NRT 7
5417 IAH - MUC 4
5413 SFO - KIX 5
5367 SFO - LHR 14
5232 IAH - FRA 7
5222 ORD - GRU 7
5160 SFO - HND 7
5124 SFO - NRT 7
5062 IAH - EZE 7
5040 DEN - FRA 5
5016 IAH - GIG 7
5012 IAH - AMS 7
4962 EWR - HNL 7
4902 IAH - GRU 7
 
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PacoMartin
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Posts: 901
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Re: widebody usage

Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:56 am

STT757 wrote:
I check that all the time , it has their narrow body and regional jet flights too. However there are some inaccuracies, mainly with the 767s . It lists some 764 flights as 767-300 and vice versa.


I would be interested if you could point out some inaccurate data. The most obvious issue is that United has more than twice as many B763s and B764s, so the total counts don't make sense.
Boeing 767-300 38
Boeing 767-400 16

B763s (days per week) miles, route 157 flights per week
7 5016 GIG - IAH 763 1234567
7 5016 IAH - GIG 763 1234567
7 4962 EWR - HNL 763 1234567
7 4962 HNL - EWR 763 1234567
7 4834 IAH - LHR 763 1234567
7 4834 LHR - IAH 763 1234567
7 4645 IAH - SCL 763 1234567
7 4645 SCL - IAH 763 1234567
7 4052 EWR - MUC 763 1234567
7 4052 MUC - EWR 763 1234567
6 4010 EWR - MXP 763 124567
7 4010 MXP - EWR 763 1234567
6 3980 EWR - TXL 763 134567
6 3980 TXL - EWR 763 124567
7 3656 AMS - EWR 763 1234567
7 3656 EWR - AMS 763 1234567
7 1608 EWR - SJU 763 1234567
7 1608 SJU - EWR 763 1234567
7 1400 EWR - IAH 763 1234567
3 1400 EWR - IAH 763 123
3 1400 IAH - EWR 763 234
7 1400 IAH - EWR 763 1234567
7 854 IAH - MCO 763 1234567
7 854 MCO - IAH 763 1234567
---
B764s (days per week) miles, route 338 flights per week
4 5417 IAH - MUC 764 4567
4 5417 MUC - IAH 764 1567
1 4817 HNL - IAD 764 6
1 4817 IAD - HNL 764 6
7 4737 GRU - IAD 764 1234567
7 4737 IAD - GRU 764 1234567
7 4530 MUC - ORD 764 1234567
6 4530 ORD - MUC 764 134567
7 4344 FRA - ORD 764 1234567
6 4344 ORD - FRA 764 123567
4 4160 BRU - ORD 764 1567
4 4160 ORD - BRU 764 4567
7 4157 IAD - ZRH 764 1234567
7 4157 ZRH - IAD 764 1234567
5 4153 CDG - ORD 764 14567
5 4153 ORD - CDG 764 34567
5 4120 AMS - ORD 764 14567
5 4120 ORD - AMS 764 34567
7 3953 LHR - ORD 764 1234567
7 3953 LHR - ORD 764 1234567
5 3953 LHR - ORD 764 13457
6 3953 ORD - LHR 764 134567
4 3953 ORD - LHR 764 2467
7 3953 ORD - LHR 764 1234567
7 3945 EWR - ZRH 764 1234567
7 3945 ZRH - EWR 764 1234567
7 3878 EWR - GVA 764 1234567
7 3878 GVA - EWR 764 1234567
4 3867 AMS - IAD 764 1567
4 3867 IAD - AMS 764 4567
4 3848 BCN - EWR 764 1567
4 3848 EWR - BCN 764 4567
7 3677 IAD - LHR 764 1234567
7 3677 LHR - IAD 764 1234567
4 3606 EWR - MAD 764 4567
4 3606 MAD - EWR 764 1567
7 3465 EWR - LHR 764 1234567
7 3465 EWR - LHR 764 1234567
6 3465 EWR - LHR 764 123457
6 3465 EWR - LHR 764 134567
6 3465 EWR - LHR 764 123467
7 3465 LHR - EWR 764 1234567
5 3465 LHR - EWR 764 13456
7 3465 LHR - EWR 764 1234567
6 3465 LHR - EWR 764 124567
6 3465 LHR - EWR 764 123457
7 3384 EWR - LIS 764 1234567
6 3384 LIS - EWR 764 134567
7 3354 EWR - MAN 764 1234567
7 3354 MAN - EWR 764 1234567
7 3133 IAH - LIM 764 1234567
7 3133 LIM - IAH 764 1234567
7 1400 EWR - IAH 764 1234567
7 1400 IAH - EWR 764 1234567
5 1190 IAD - IAH 764 23457
1 1190 IAH - IAD 764 4
5 1190 IAH - IAD 764 12346
3 937 EWR - MCO 764 123
3 937 MCO - EWR 764 234
1 925 IAH - ORD 764 3
1 925 ORD - IAH 764 1
1 925 ORD - IAH 764 1
3 719 EWR - ORD 764 123
3 719 ORD - EWR 764 234
 
airzona11
Posts: 1772
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: widebody usage

Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:23 am

PacoMartin wrote:
I never noticed this schedule that United publishes of their widebody schedule. It is an aide to people who want to ship cargo.
https://www.unitedcargo.com/ShowFiles?f ... debody.pdf

It includes widebody flights both domestic and international

With a little bit of effort I was able to produce some statistical results for widebody usage at United for January 2020.

The table is by equipment, average flights per day, number of routes over the course of the month, and the average number of statute miles.

Eqp   P-d   rtes   Avg mile
763    22.4    24   3,368
764    48.3    64   3,392
777   115.6   125   4,618
787    63.1    73   5,226
all   249.4   286   4,394


In particular, I was interested in looking at subset of routes under 2500 statute miles. These are routes that could easily be served by single-aisle jets. In the future with XLR jets this threshold will more than likely be 4000-5000 miles
Eqp   P-d   rtes   Avg mile
763    6.9    8   1,316
764    5.7   12   1,038
777   23.1   28   1,842
787    8.6   10   2,068
all   44.3   58   1,642


The relatively large number of 777s under 2500 miles is due to United configuring 777-200 as C28Y336 for the first class passengers who want lie-flat seats for domestic flights.


The data is great, thank you for posting. The more wide bodies the better.

The magical A321XLR carries no where near the cargo. Let alone the fact that UA rotates the planes through a cycle of long haul and less flights. So the premise of the A321 impacting this is null.
 
SA280
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:18 pm

Re: widebody usage

Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:38 am

The total for number of routes is inaccurate as it is simply the sum of values for each equipment. However, there are routes flown by multiple widebodies, so the true total amount of routes should be much lower.
 
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PacoMartin
Topic Author
Posts: 901
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 8:18 pm

Re: widebody usage

Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:30 am

SA280 wrote:
The total for number of routes is inaccurate as it is simply the sum of values for each equipment. However, there are routes flown by multiple widebodies, so the true total amount of routes should be much lower.


Thank you for spotting my error. Readers please ignore the third column.

airzona11 wrote:
The data is great, thank you for posting. The more wide bodies the better.
The magical A321XLR carries no where near the cargo. Let alone the fact that UA rotates the planes through a cycle of long haul and less flights. So the premise of the A321 impacting this is null.


I think you are correct, but I had to see the data for myself.

So even though the longest range B767 flights for United is 4707 nm and the A321 XLR marketing range if 4700 nm, we find it very unlikely that United will try and replace the B767 with A321XLRs. It does look like the A321XLRs will simply be used to replace B752s.

Which does leave the open question of what will Boeing use to replace the B767 if the NMA never is launched? Will they downconvert the much delayed A350 order to more A330s? It doesn't seem that the B787-8 is a viable option anymore.
 
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PacoMartin
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Posts: 901
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 8:18 pm

Re: widebody usage

Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:17 am

Between American, United, and Delta it looks like AA has the fewest number of long-range routes with only 17 routes longer than 4700 nmi (the nominal "still air" range of the A321XLR). Do you think this statistic implies that AA is the most vulnerable to competition from LCCs who acquire the XLR?

Naut miles - Origin - Destination average number of seats (American Airlines only
    7,056 DFW Hong Kong HKG 304
    6,506 LAX Australia SYD 284
    6,388 DFW China PVG 284
    6,309 LAX Hong Kong HKG 304
    6,058 DFW China PEK 235
    5,945 DFW South Korea ICN 284
    5,635 LAX China PVG 284
    5,585 DFW Japan NRT 271
    5,452 ORD Japan NRT 233
    5,432 LAX China PEK 284
    5,350 LAX Brazil GRU 284
    5,314 LAX Argentina EZE 284
    4,879 DFW Italy FCO 272
    4,768 LAX Japan HND 285
    4,747 ORD Greece ATH 236
    4,741 LAX United Kingdom LHR 304
    4,737 LAX Japan NRT 285
    4,593 DFW Argentina EZE 272
    4,590 JFK Argentina EZE 273
    4,580 PHX United Kingdom LHR 272
    4,469 DFW Germany FRA 235
    4,441 DFW Brazil GRU 304
    4,375 PHL Greece ATH 286
    4,315 DFW Spain MAD 272
    4,300 DFW France CDG 242
    4,284 MIA Italy MXP 211
    4,275 DFW Netherlands AMS 272
    4,231 DFW Chile SCL 236
    4,191 ORD Italy FCO 236
    4,182 CLT Italy FCO 286
    4,128 DFW United Kingdom LHR 280
    4,123 JFK Brazil GRU 304
    4,082 MIA Spain BCN 272
    4,058 ORD Italy VCE 236
    3,988 MIA France CDG 272
    3,979 CLT Germany MUC 245
    3,879 PHL Hungary BUD 204
    3,845 MIA United Kingdom LHR 304
    3,844 MIA Spain MAD 272
    3,841 ORD Spain BCN 243
    3,829 MIA Argentina EZE 289
    3,822 CLT Germany FRA 245
    3,798 PHL Italy FCO 284
    3,787 CLT Spain BCN 244
    3,718 JFK Italy FCO 272
    3,691 PHL Italy VCE 242
    3,628 PHL Czech Republic PRG 242
    3,627 CLT France CDG 242
    3,617 MIA Brazil GIG 272
    3,609 ORD France CDG 238
    3,579 MIA Chile SCL 272
    3,571 CLT Spain MAD 251
    3,539 MIA Brazil GRU 287
    3,498 PHL Switzerland ZRH 204
    3,472 JFK Italy MXP 272
    3,469 CLT United Kingdom LHR 285
    3,435 ORD United Kingdom LHR 260
    3,411 PHL Spain BCN 242
    3,365 RDU United Kingdom LHR 272
    3,329 JFK Spain BCN 272
    3,247 PHL Netherlands AMS 204
    3,240 PHL France CDG 242
    3,234 CLT Ireland DUB 251
    3,199 PHL Spain MAD 242
    3,193 ORD Ireland DUB 234
    3,159 JFK France CDG 272
    3,128 MIA Brazil BSB 173
    3,119 JFK Spain MAD 272
    3,081 PHL United Kingdom LHR 281
    3,005 PHL Portugal LIS 204
    3,000 JFK United Kingdom LHR 288
 
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PacoMartin
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Posts: 901
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 8:18 pm

Re: widebody usage

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:29 am

Maybe if I show data from all three airlines for destinations over 4700 nm ("still air" range of A321XLR).
Do you think that the airline with the most routes longer than possible by a LCC is the most invulnerable to competition? Or doesn't it matter?

Delta (nm) US foreign
4699 SEA PEK
4768 LAX HND
4847 LAX AMS
4927 LAX CDG
4933 JFK TLV
4972 SEA PVG
5078 ATL LOS
5198 MSP HND
5429 MSP ICN
5559 DTW NRT
5635 LAX PVG
5694 DTW NGO
5763 DTW PEK
5767 DTW ICN
5953 ATL NRT
6202 DTW PVG
6216 ATL ICN
6506 LAX SYD
6656 ATL PVG
7328 ATL JNB

United (nm) US foreign
4704 SFO KIX
4707 IAH MUC
4737 LAX NRT
4741 LAX LHR
4756 SFO AMS
4852 SFO CDG
4918 SFO ICN
4946 EWR TLV
4952 SFO FRA
5029 DEN NRT
5076 SFO ZRH
5109 SFO MUC
5131 IAD TLV
5138 SFO PEK
5345 SFO PVG
5452 ORD NRT
5622 SFO TPE
5635 LAX PVG
5662 SFO AKL
5718 ORD PEK
5772 IAH NRT
5849 EWR NRT
5867 IAD NRT
5936 EWR PEK
5971 SFO CTU
6014 IAD PEK
6020 SFO HKG
6133 ORD PVG
6136 IAD SJW
6417 EWR PVG
6444 SFO SYD
6450 SFO TLV
6506 LAX SYD
6772 ORD HKG
6783 EWR BOM
6882 LAX MEL
7007 EWR HKG
7334 SFO SIN
7462 IAH SYD

AA (nm) US foreign
4737 LAX NRT
4741 LAX LHR
4747 ORD ATH
4768 LAX HND
4879 DFW FCO
5314 LAX EZE
5350 LAX GRU
5432 LAX PEK
5452 ORD NRT
5585 DFW NRT
5635 LAX PVG
5945 DFW ICN
6058 DFW PEK
6309 LAX HKG
6388 DFW PVG
6506 LAX SYD
7056 DFW HKG

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