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sabby
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:20 pm

Tartarus wrote:
Your ticket entitles you to get from A to B, not for a scenic flight staring outside disrupting everyone else.
Hire your own scenic flight if you want to impress your Instagram friends.


If you want to fly without disruptions from others, fly private. See, it can be done the other way too.

If you want to sleep on a flight, bring your eye-mask. There's no option to "bring your own open window" for passengers (many who have paid to choose windows seats) to enjoy the view.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:20 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
newsflash: the crew want these things dimmed on most flights too.


Darken the cabin- up the temperature- more pax go to sleep = less work for the FA's.



You forgot only decaf coffee
 
FGITD
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:37 pm

What I find amusing is the argument “if you want the shade closed, pay for a window seat so you can close it” which is frequently followed by threads exclaiming some variation of “I was on the aisle, and this idiot on the window shut the shade at the gate and left it that way the whole flight! What a waste.” And that is often followed by replies about how you should reach over and open it.
 
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Erebus
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:41 pm

trad01 wrote:
What happens if the system is broken and the windows remain dimmed for landing?


The release says that "A low-voltage electric current is passed through conductive coatings and across the glass panels to induce an electrochemical reaction in the gel that causes it to darken. Removing the voltage allows the gel to return to its natural, transparent state."

So, if the system is broken, it is probably just a matter of powering it down to make it transparent.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:50 pm

As I have stated before on this website, I stay away from the 787 for two reasons:
- the crew override option on the dimmable windows
- the 3-3-3 economy class seating

I will also stay away from future Airbus aircraft with dimmable windows. It will probably take some time before all aircraft have these kind of windows. I guess I will stick to boat and train travel than. I don't like the concept of crew taking away a beautiful view.

I could see myself punching a darkened window trying to break it while overflying Greenland. To avoid problems I don't book flights on 787's. As far as I know we don't have dimmable windows on busses and trains, there is zero reason to put them in aircraft.
 
alan3
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:00 pm

Ah yes, the window shade debate...right up there with reclining seats

Personally I love the 787 windows....when the crew don't lock them....when the crew lock them at dark then it's worse than window shades

Dimmable windows allows you to see outside (which let's face it is why most window-seat fans pick the window) without BLINDING THE ENTIRE CABIN IN BRIGHT SUN. It should be a perfect compromise for both parties and I don't understand the hate.
 
MADPYRO
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:13 pm

alan3 wrote:
Ah yes, the window shade debate...right up there with reclining seats

Personally I love the 787 windows....when the crew don't lock them....when the crew lock them at dark then it's worse than window shades

Dimmable windows allows you to see outside (which let's face it is why most window-seat fans pick the window) without BLINDING THE ENTIRE CABIN IN BRIGHT SUN. It should be a perfect compromise for both parties and I don't understand the hate.


My times on the 787, I've asked the crew to unlock the windows and they did so rather quickly. After undimming my window, several other passengers proceeded to follow my lead.... Just my thoughts
A319/A320/A321/A388/B737/B738/B744/B752/B772/E190/F70
 
speedbird52
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:36 pm

sergegva wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
I love the dimmable windows on the 787. It’s a great compromise between being able to see outside and being respectful to those in the cabin who want to sleep. You can still see outside pretty decently, and the seat mates get to sleep. Better than the alternative which would be the crew asking everyone to have their window shades shut completely preventing someone from being able to see out the window.

It is not a great compromise at all. You can barely see the landscape when it's dimmmed at the maximum. 50% dimmed, maybe.
A great compromise would be airlines giving eyeshades to pax who want to sleep.
I will happily buy eyeshades to my fellow seat mate if he wants to sleep. But if a dimmable window makes me miss the Himalaya or the Altaïr mountain in a magic light, like during my last HKG-AMS, I will loudly complain during the whole flight (and after).

I never understood why some people think it's ok to bother your neighboor with your reading light or your screen, watching a blockbuster, while watching outside is an offense?? And I am not talking of 5h nonstop with direct sunlight right into the cabin. When the light is strong there are ways to watch carefully.

I absolutely despise the super big IFE screens for this reason. Frankly a very large very bright monitor displaying images of Sam Jackson shooting up a building is going to make sleeping a lot harder for me than looking outside and seeing the Aurora, or Mt Ranier, or some icebergs in the Atlantic. Scenery is one of the reasons I love flying as a passenger, and I would hate to have that taken away from me. I understand that most people don't enjoy flying, but I would greatly appreciate if they don't spread their misery to others.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:37 pm

MADPYRO wrote:
alan3 wrote:
Ah yes, the window shade debate...right up there with reclining seats

Personally I love the 787 windows....when the crew don't lock them....when the crew lock them at dark then it's worse than window shades

Dimmable windows allows you to see outside (which let's face it is why most window-seat fans pick the window) without BLINDING THE ENTIRE CABIN IN BRIGHT SUN. It should be a perfect compromise for both parties and I don't understand the hate.


My times on the 787, I've asked the crew to unlock the windows and they did so rather quickly. After undimming my window, several other passengers proceeded to follow my lead.... Just my thoughts

It depends on your crew. From the stories I have heard about US flight attendants such a request would result in your flight being diverted and having your head smashed into a seat by the police
 
m007j
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:49 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
MADPYRO wrote:
alan3 wrote:
Ah yes, the window shade debate...right up there with reclining seats

Personally I love the 787 windows....when the crew don't lock them....when the crew lock them at dark then it's worse than window shades

Dimmable windows allows you to see outside (which let's face it is why most window-seat fans pick the window) without BLINDING THE ENTIRE CABIN IN BRIGHT SUN. It should be a perfect compromise for both parties and I don't understand the hate.


My times on the 787, I've asked the crew to unlock the windows and they did so rather quickly. After undimming my window, several other passengers proceeded to follow my lead.... Just my thoughts

It depends on your crew. From the stories I have heard about US flight attendants such a request would result in your flight being diverted and having your head smashed into a seat by the police


I have done this on both American and United's 787s- neither time has the crew refused my request and while it may take a little convincing, it depends on how you ask. Be nice and you get nice things back
 
A320FlyGuy
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:49 pm

I love how everyone goes on about having dimming windows is something new and cutting edge, yet Lockheed had considered the concept back during the development of the L-1011. It was never executed, but it’s just another example of how far-sighted the designers of the L-1011 were.

They are discussed (with photos) in this article:

https://www.airlinereporter.com/2015/09 ... 1-tristar/
My other car is an A320-200
 
alan3
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:01 pm

sergegva wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
I love the dimmable windows on the 787. It’s a great compromise between being able to see outside and being respectful to those in the cabin who want to sleep. You can still see outside pretty decently, and the seat mates get to sleep. Better than the alternative which would be the crew asking everyone to have their window shades shut completely preventing someone from being able to see out the window.


It is not a great compromise at all. You can barely see the landscape when it's dimmmed at the maximum. 50% dimmed, maybe.
A great compromise would be airlines giving eyeshades to pax who want to sleep.
I will happily buy eyeshades to my fellow seat mate if he wants to sleep. But if a dimmable window makes me miss the Himalaya or the Altaïr mountain in a magic light, like during my last HKG-AMS, I will loudly complain during the whole flight (and after).

I never understood why some people think it's ok to bother your neighboor with your reading light or your screen, watching a blockbuster, while watching outside is an offense?? And I am not talking of 5h nonstop with direct sunlight right into the cabin. When the light is strong there are ways to watch carefully.


The choice shouldn't be the entire plane wearing eyeshades vs blinding bright sun filling the cabin. The entire point of the "dimmable" technology is that it should be dimmABLE so that you can still see the Himalaya but at a slightly shaded degree of light. If we're flying over something nice but 95% of the cabin is dark, I usually try to be respectful and take a peek out of a small bit of window shade. Yes, overhead lights and movie screens are bright too but not nearly as bright as the sun at 40000 feet.


speedbird52 wrote:
I absolutely despise the super big IFE screens for this reason. Frankly a very large very bright monitor displaying images of Sam Jackson shooting up a building is going to make sleeping a lot harder for me than looking outside and seeing the Aurora, or Mt Ranier, or some icebergs in the Atlantic. Scenery is one of the reasons I love flying as a passenger, and I would hate to have that taken away from me. I understand that most people don't enjoy flying, but I would greatly appreciate if they don't spread their misery to others.


I thought I saw a recent flight review where they said the newer IFE screens are dark when viewed at an angle. Only bright head on. Can't remember what aircraft or airline it was, may have been an A350. Thought that was a cool technology, so that your neighbor's screen doesn't bother you. I don't think you'll find many people who prefer one of those postage stamp sized old 747 IFE screens to something modern and new!

...

Like with seat recline, this discussion is all about trying to find that place where "it's my money I can do what I like" reaches a compromise with "we're all stuck in this tiny box for 10 hours let's try to respect each other".
 
Exeiowa
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:04 pm

Your ticket entitles you for a trip from A to B for an often additional amount, or by benefit of being in a higher ticket category (such as when flying under an airline-company contract) you get to pick the window seat preferentially. is the additional perk guaranteed having to climb over people to pee or access to an external view?
 
A320FlyGuy
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:12 pm

Here is a picture of the proposed dimming window on the L-1011, circa 1968:

Image
My other car is an A320-200
 
A320FlyGuy
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:12 pm

A320FlyGuy wrote:
I love how everyone goes on about having dimming windows is something new and cutting edge, yet Lockheed had considered the concept back during the development of the L-1011. It was never executed, but it’s just another example of how far-sighted the designers of the L-1011 were.

Image

They are discussed (with photos) in this article:

https://www.airlinereporter.com/2015/09 ... 1-tristar/
My other car is an A320-200
 
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sergegva
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:14 pm

Francoflier wrote:

Less than 25% of passengers have access to a window. Less than 100% of these have any interest in looking out. That leaves a vast majority who would rather relax in the dark. Additionally, it only takes one inconsiderate person to raise his or her shade to flood the compartment with bright light and wake up or inconvenience an entire cabin worth of passengers trying to sleep.

It's only a combination of simple math and basic decency, but don't let me stop your tantrum.


And more and more of those 25% of passengers paid specifically for that pleasure.

seb76 wrote:
If you open your shade on a normal plane, even slightly, it's not nice at all for the others and you will quickly be asked to close it anyway by an attendant or by neighbors.


I am sorry, but such a remark would be extremely disrespectful and shocking to a person who wishes to look at the landscape. What right would the sleep of other passengers (who, for their personal comfort, refuse to wear eyeshades by the way) have overriding my right to look at the scenery? Up to the point where a brief glance outside by partially opening the window shade would already go too far?! This is beyond selfish.

MartijnNL wrote:
As far as I know we don't have dimmable windows on busses and trains, there is zero reason to put them in aircraft.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
 
ikramerica
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:15 pm

workhorse wrote:
L0VE2FLY wrote:
There's no words in the English language or any language for that matter to describe how much I hate this stupid awful feature! What's the point of paying for a window seat if you have no control over your window?! I refuse to fly on the 787 because of the stupid dimming windows. I'm beyond disappointed! :mad:

Colonia wrote:
It is horrible (at least the way Boeing has installed it on the 787). My five cents.


:checkmark: What makes it so horrible is the crew override feature, a friend of mine missed out on seeing the stunning glaciers of Greenland and the Northern Lights 'cause the crew dimmed and locked all the windows. :banghead:


Not only the override feature. Dimmable windows make it impossible to open just the lower part of the shade to get a good view of the landscape while minimizing disturbance to other passengers.

See, that’s why they exist. Because that lower 1/3 trick doesn’t really minimize disturbance.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:27 pm

alan3 wrote:
sergegva wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
I love the dimmable windows on the 787. It’s a great compromise between being able to see outside and being respectful to those in the cabin who want to sleep. You can still see outside pretty decently, and the seat mates get to sleep. Better than the alternative which would be the crew asking everyone to have their window shades shut completely preventing someone from being able to see out the window.


It is not a great compromise at all. You can barely see the landscape when it's dimmmed at the maximum. 50% dimmed, maybe.
A great compromise would be airlines giving eyeshades to pax who want to sleep.
I will happily buy eyeshades to my fellow seat mate if he wants to sleep. But if a dimmable window makes me miss the Himalaya or the Altaïr mountain in a magic light, like during my last HKG-AMS, I will loudly complain during the whole flight (and after).

I never understood why some people think it's ok to bother your neighboor with your reading light or your screen, watching a blockbuster, while watching outside is an offense?? And I am not talking of 5h nonstop with direct sunlight right into the cabin. When the light is strong there are ways to watch carefully.


The choice shouldn't be the entire plane wearing eyeshades vs blinding bright sun filling the cabin. The entire point of the "dimmable" technology is that it should be dimmABLE so that you can still see the Himalaya but at a slightly shaded degree of light. If we're flying over something nice but 95% of the cabin is dark, I usually try to be respectful and take a peek out of a small bit of window shade. Yes, overhead lights and movie screens are bright too but not nearly as bright as the sun at 40000 feet.


speedbird52 wrote:
I absolutely despise the super big IFE screens for this reason. Frankly a very large very bright monitor displaying images of Sam Jackson shooting up a building is going to make sleeping a lot harder for me than looking outside and seeing the Aurora, or Mt Ranier, or some icebergs in the Atlantic. Scenery is one of the reasons I love flying as a passenger, and I would hate to have that taken away from me. I understand that most people don't enjoy flying, but I would greatly appreciate if they don't spread their misery to others.


I thought I saw a recent flight review where they said the newer IFE screens are dark when viewed at an angle. Only bright head on. Can't remember what aircraft or airline it was, may have been an A350. Thought that was a cool technology, so that your neighbor's screen doesn't bother you. I don't think you'll find many people who prefer one of those postage stamp sized old 747 IFE screens to something modern and new!

...

Like with seat recline, this discussion is all about trying to find that place where "it's my money I can do what I like" reaches a compromise with "we're all stuck in this tiny box for 10 hours let's try to respect each other".

It totally depends on the individual aircraft and in some case individual screen. Case in point: I have been on LH 744s where some screens had the mentioned privacy coating but others did not. Most of the A330s I have flown have not had them either.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:29 pm

ikramerica wrote:
workhorse wrote:
L0VE2FLY wrote:
There's no words in the English language or any language for that matter to describe how much I hate this stupid awful feature! What's the point of paying for a window seat if you have no control over your window?! I refuse to fly on the 787 because of the stupid dimming windows. I'm beyond disappointed! :mad:



:checkmark: What makes it so horrible is the crew override feature, a friend of mine missed out on seeing the stunning glaciers of Greenland and the Northern Lights 'cause the crew dimmed and locked all the windows. :banghead:


Not only the override feature. Dimmable windows make it impossible to open just the lower part of the shade to get a good view of the landscape while minimizing disturbance to other passengers.

See, that’s why they exist. Because that lower 1/3 trick doesn’t really minimize disturbance.

I can assure you that one open window won't flood the entire cabin with light.
 
ikramerica
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:30 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Nice... though it's gonna suck on those airlines where the crew uses a mother-switch to just override everyone's window and make the cabin dark as throughout the flight.


Good because sleep is spoiled too much by that one passenger that opens his window flooding the cabin with light.


Buy a face mask/shade then. If you so want it closed, choose a window seat.

Bring 200 sunshades to pass out. Your attitude is “I am uncivil, you must buy something to deal with me.”

How about the people who leave their window open while they sleep next to it? I buy a window so I can close it for my family, but the person one row up with a window that spills into our row leaves it up and sleeps, with or without eyeshades. This has happened MANY times.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:34 pm

ikramerica wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

Good because sleep is spoiled too much by that one passenger that opens his window flooding the cabin with light.


Buy a face mask/shade then. If you so want it closed, choose a window seat.

Bring 200 sunshades to pass out. Your attitude is “I am uncivil, you must buy something to deal with me.”

How about the people who leave their window open while they sleep next to it? I buy a window so I can close it for my family, but the person one row up with a window that spills into our row leaves it up and sleeps, with or without eyeshades. This has happened MANY times.


Not sure how we got there and clearly based on your approach this discussion won't be civil. How me wanting to look out the window turned into me falling asleep with it opened and bothering 200 people I do not know.
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sergegva
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:39 pm

ikramerica wrote:

How about the people who leave their window open while they sleep next to it?

In this case, all that is required is for a flight attendant to lower the window shade. That is what happens in fact.
 
A320FlyGuy
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:51 pm

As an interesting side note....the term “posh” refers to “Port Out, Starboard Home”. It originated in the steamship era on routes from the UK to India. The theory being that observing this type of arrangement would keep you out of the sun and thus, a more comfortable travel experience. Observing the same concept when doing seat selection on eastbound routes still holds true today.

I recall reading in Robert Gandt’s excellent book about Pan Am, Skygods, that there was a Pan Am pilot who would only work around the world flights in one direction so that the sun was always on he first officer’s side of the aircraft.
My other car is an A320-200
 
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Velocity7
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:18 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Now I am not a BA fanboy by any means as they do a lot wrong, but one thing I do love is that on transatlantic daytime flights, by and large about 20% of the shades remain up, meaning there's a nice ambient daylight to move about but dim enough for the majority to sleep if happy. My one westbound on United out of LHR an announcement was made for shades down on a B772 and the cabin was 100% darkened, night fell, at 11am. That screwed my body clock, and was most unpleasant.


Had a similar issue on a flight with TG - our journey had started in FCO 14 hours earlier but on the the final 8 hour BKK-MEL sector they plunged the cabin into darkness 20 minutes after takeoff at 0900 - the worst jet lag I have ever experienced after 26 hours of travel - and I was in Business Class! :crazy:
 
AndyW35
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:29 pm

If people can sleep next to a bright window then it actually shows simply you are not tired enough. Unless most people on here are related to bats or badgers night time is for sleep and daytime for being awake. If you are tired during the day you will sleep anyway even though not night.

It's you that are the odd ones, not the people looking out the window. ;)

This arguement boils down to wanting a light level perfect for you, whatever that value is....
 
Checklist787
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:35 pm

A320FlyGuy wrote:
I love how everyone goes on about having dimming windows is something new and cutting edge, yet Lockheed had considered the concept back during the development of the L-1011. It was never executed, but it’s just another example of how far-sighted the designers of the L-1011 were.

They are discussed (with photos) in this article:

https://www.airlinereporter.com/2015/09 ... 1-tristar/


Thanks for that
The L-1011 was awesome !

I saw somewhere Lockheed was already using autoclaves for the L-1011 Tristar already !!

(Too bad Lockheed does not want to take advantage of the debacle of the 737MAX to launch a new narrowbody because the market is exploding.)

Sorry for the off-topic
"No limit to my poooWer!!!
Do it! "...
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:43 pm

Checklist787 wrote:
Colonia wrote:
It is horrible (at least the way Boeing has installed it on the 787). My five cents.


What?
How's that the way it's installed on the 787? (I'm shocked) :banghead:


There have been several changes to these dimmable windows on the 787 Dreamliner and GENTEX has been selected by Boeing on the 777X long before !!!


"The 777X program will be the first to utilize Gentex’s latest EDW technology, capable of eliminating more than 99.999% of the visible light at twice the darkening speed of previous windows. The 777X system will be designed with centralized control, allowing flight crew to set specific lighting scenarios for day or nighttime flight without reaching over passengers to open or close the mechanical shades.

“We’re proud to be a continued partner with Boeing as we look to expand and improve our dimmable glass product offerings. With careful design and collaboration with Boeing, our teams have developed a robust EDW system that easily integrates to the airframe for optimal control, aesthetics, performance, and reliability,” said Steve Downing, Gentex president and chief executive officer... "


https://ir.gentex.com/news-releases/new ... le-windows

You're just providing fuel to those who say it's horrible the way it's been implemented in the 787: by allowing the FA to override the darkness setting, AND PREVENTING THE PAX from further adjusting it.

Thank you for your contribution and sorry that your post did not allow you to prove your point... :duck:
 
Checklist787
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:56 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
You're just providing fuel to those who say it's horrible the way it's been implemented in the 787


Except there are some who say the opposite... :duck:
"No limit to my poooWer!!!
Do it! "...
 
seb76
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:18 pm

trad01 wrote:
trad01 wrote:
I fly Hainan from China from time to time on their 787s. In December coming into LAX from China was the first time that the windows were locked in the dimmed position for the entire flight. It didn't bother me much as I wanted to sleep, but we landed with the windows dimmed at about 5pm.

Is this not a violation to landing procedures? (return your seat to the upright position, stow your table tray and open your window)

I asked the FA on exit and she just assured me that they controlled the windows with the master switch. She didn't seem to be aware that the windows needed to be open for landing.
What happens if the system is broken and the windows remain dimmed for landing?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3010 using Tapatalk

It's not very different from an LCD screen (but this one has only one huge pixel). Without electricity passing trough the gel, the cristals polarizing the light become disorganized, so the light will pass trough. Removing power from that circuit should fixit... but don't worry, the pilots have non dimmable Windows ;-)
 
outbackair
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:21 pm

Newsflash - Boeing to offer 777 Cargo planes with pax interior so cabin crew don't have to bother dimming the windows! :D
 
nz2
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:28 pm

Never had any issues with the shade on NZ, always able to look outside during the day as I please by adjusting the shade in order to see but I dont leave it open for long as it is hard to see the TV screen.
 
A320FlyGuy
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:05 pm

Checklist787 wrote:
A320FlyGuy wrote:
I love how everyone goes on about having dimming windows is something new and cutting edge, yet Lockheed had considered the concept back during the development of the L-1011. It was never executed, but it’s just another example of how far-sighted the designers of the L-1011 were.

They are discussed (with photos) in this article:

https://www.airlinereporter.com/2015/09 ... 1-tristar/


Thanks for that
The L-1011 was awesome !

I saw somewhere Lockheed was already using autoclaves for the L-1011 Tristar already !!

(Too bad Lockheed does not want to take advantage of the debacle of the 737MAX to launch a new narrowbody because the market is exploding.)

Sorry for the off-topic


The L-1011 was an amazing aircraft! My grandfather was the chief engineer who designed it and I’ve always been really proud of his work on that plane. I’d love to chat with you more about it if you want - send me a private message and we can chat about it!
My other car is an A320-200
 
tropical
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:09 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
MADPYRO wrote:
alan3 wrote:
Ah yes, the window shade debate...right up there with reclining seats

Personally I love the 787 windows....when the crew don't lock them....when the crew lock them at dark then it's worse than window shades

Dimmable windows allows you to see outside (which let's face it is why most window-seat fans pick the window) without BLINDING THE ENTIRE CABIN IN BRIGHT SUN. It should be a perfect compromise for both parties and I don't understand the hate.


My times on the 787, I've asked the crew to unlock the windows and they did so rather quickly. After undimming my window, several other passengers proceeded to follow my lead.... Just my thoughts

It depends on your crew. From the stories I have heard about US flight attendants such a request would result in your flight being diverted and having your head smashed into a seat by the police


I posted a thread here a few months ago that was moved to the trip reports forum about my experience with RJ’s policy on cabin lighting on morning flights to Europe on their 787s as well as their A321s which of course don’t have dimmable windows.

In the former all windows are dimmed by the crew immediately after serving breakfast and remain so for most of the flight, which on an 11 am flight from AMM to LHR lasting all of five hours is absolutely preposterous IMO.

RJ employed the same forced cabin darkening on a flight to Copenhagen on an A321, also with a late morning departure and an even shorter flying time. They demanded all passengers lower their window blinds, and were insistent and confrontational to those of us who expressed their desire to keep their blinds at least partially open. As unjustified a policy as it felt patronising, like we were small kids trying to stay up past the allowed bedtime.

Not to say the fact already mentioned upthread that one could simply please both pax wanting to sleep and those wanting to look out of the window (or indeed travel in a cabin in daytime conditions during a late morning flight when you are as awake as you could be) by providing blindfolds to passengers. There is absolutely no need to force darken a cabin when there is an easy solution for those wanting to sleep in a lit cabin.

As a matter of fact, I’d be willing to bet that far less light would reach the retina of a passenger wearing a blindfold in a fully lit cabin, than one not wearing one in a fully dimmed 787. I am normally the last person to sign up to conspiracy theories but in this case I really cannot think of any other reason for the flight crew of a 4.5h late morning flight to impose dark cabin conditions than to get as many pax as possible to doze off or at least be subdued, to lighten their workload. In any event I will in the future choose BA for AMM flights unless the price difference is significant.
 
WorldFlier
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:35 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Tokyo777 wrote:
Noshow wrote:
Worst innovation since IFE boxes under the seat in front of you. I hate that centralized master dimming feature.


Are cabin attendants "locking" them dark? Every 787 flight I've been on, I've been able to lighten the window after the master switch has darkened them all.


American Airlines FAs are locking them on long-haul flights.


Another reason American Airlines is worse than United...
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4813
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:56 pm

Really bad news about Royal Jordanian. Why should I be sitting in pitch black all morning?
The issue with the B787 btw is the windows are too big. They let in a hell of a lot of sunlight, nor so much an issue on a B744.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:14 am

AndyW35 wrote:
If people can sleep next to a bright window then it actually shows simply you are not tired enough. Unless most people on here are related to bats or badgers night time is for sleep and daytime for being awake. If you are tired during the day you will sleep anyway even though not night.

Can't say I agree with this. BA 49 from LHR-SEA is an afternoon departure, but lands in the afternoon too. Meaning should you not sleep onboard, you are going to have to be awake for close to 24 hours to sleep at the proper time. The obnoxious thing is BA policy is to leave the cabin LIGHTS on during daytime flights. Fortunately, I rolled a lucky number on the dice of BA cabin crew, and got a crew that were happy to accommodate my request to shut the lights off. But I was in Club World, and I am not sure a Y or Y+ customer would be met with the same accommodation.
 
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stl07
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:30 am

Ishrion wrote:
Tokyo777 wrote:
Noshow wrote:
Worst innovation since IFE boxes under the seat in front of you. I hate that centralized master dimming feature.


Are cabin attendants "locking" them dark? Every 787 flight I've been on, I've been able to lighten the window after the master switch has darkened them all.


American Airlines FAs are locking them on long-haul flights.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I loved them. I was on the morning ORD departure on AA bound for LHR, and since I had done an all nighter drive from STL the night (maybe Morning I guess?) before, I was on a completely different sleep cycle than the other passengers on the flight, and they allowed all of us to look outside when we wanted and sleep when we want without bothering others. They were NOT locked on our flight, which was great. Can't say the same about RJ, though.

Edit: Looks like I'm not the only one with complaints about RJ, and I flew from JFK, which is far longer than from Europe
Last edited by stl07 on Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:31 am

More details on this is needed. My guess would be the A350 will get it. I welcome the option though. One of my favorite features of the 787 is the huge dimmable window.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:06 am

Checklist787 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
You're just providing fuel to those who say it's horrible the way it's been implemented in the 787


Except there are some who say the opposite... :duck:

So, let's make it simple as it appears you have comprehension issues:
- some customers (a good chunk of them?): hate the 787 dimmable windows as the crew can lock the PAX out of their control;
- Colonia: "It is horrible (at least the way Boeing has installed it on the 787)";
- you: what's so horrible? Look, the manufacturer says the FA can centrally control them.

Do you see the flaw in your argumentation?
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:36 am

MADPYRO wrote:
alan3 wrote:
Ah yes, the window shade debate...right up there with reclining seats

Personally I love the 787 windows....when the crew don't lock them....when the crew lock them at dark then it's worse than window shades

Dimmable windows allows you to see outside (which let's face it is why most window-seat fans pick the window) without BLINDING THE ENTIRE CABIN IN BRIGHT SUN. It should be a perfect compromise for both parties and I don't understand the hate.


My times on the 787, I've asked the crew to unlock the windows and they did so rather quickly. After undimming my window, several other passengers proceeded to follow my lead.... Just my thoughts


Geat. Probably because it is not the airline's policy to do so and is just the decision by the crews to make their life easier.
And I will make a complain onboard and after my landing if the crew refused to do so espcially when I have paid to select the window seat.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:54 am

Francoflier wrote:
Only A.netters would get their knickers in a knot over airplane windows that dim without their consent because how dare anyone take away their god given right to look through them at the expense of everyone else's rest...
:rotfl:

Fortunately, no one else gives much of a damn.


You can use eye shades to sleep. I do it all the time at home when I sleep late into the day. If I buy a window seat so I can watch the landscape go by, I have a right to use the window. Why is my god given right less important than your rest when you have an option. How dare you!
Last edited by rbavfan on Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:54 am

Francoflier wrote:
Only A.netters would get their knickers in a knot over airplane windows that dim without their consent because how dare anyone take away their god given right to look through them at the expense of everyone else's rest...
:rotfl:

Fortunately, no one else gives much of a damn.



It duplicated
 
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hongkongflyer
Posts: 805
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:58 am

Exeiowa wrote:
Your ticket entitles you for a trip from A to B for an often additional amount, or by benefit of being in a higher ticket category (such as when flying under an airline-company contract) you get to pick the window seat preferentially. is the additional perk guaranteed having to climb over people to pee or access to an external view?


Only if airline no longer charging seat selection fee, some airlines charge higher for a window seat and arise seat.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:01 am

Francoflier wrote:
workhorse wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
Only A.netters would get their knickers in a knot over airplane windows that dim without their consent because how dare anyone take away their god given right to look through them at the expense of everyone else's rest...


It is not our god given right. Our god given right is to not book with airlines who buy airplanes with this "feature".


You are right. By all means, do.
Airlines don't seem overly worried, however, which would lend credence to the fact that this is a pet peeve only shared among a few enthusiasts.

mjoelnir wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
Only A.netters would get their knickers in a knot over airplane windows that dim without their consent because how dare anyone take away their god given right to look through them at the expense of everyone else's rest...
:rotfl:

Fortunately, no one else gives much of a damn.


Only a.netters would get their knickers in a knot over people who want to look out of windows. Their need to sleep without shades robs other passengers of the enjoyment of the flight.


Less than 25% of passengers have access to a window. Less than 100% of these have any interest in looking out. That leaves a vast majority who would rather relax in the dark. Additionally, it only takes one inconsiderate person to raise his or her shade to flood the compartment with bright light and wake up or inconvenience an entire cabin worth of passengers trying to sleep.

It's only a combination of simple math and basic decency, but don't let me stop your tantrum.


Please the real reason the crew does itis so more sleep & they don't have to do anything during long parts of the flight. had a dozen or so FA's note this at the club I work at. So how many other FA's use it to avoid customer contact.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:19 am

flightwriter wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:

Buy a face mask/shade then. If you so want it closed, choose a window seat.


newsflash: the crew want these things dimmed on most flights too.


The crew is there to serve passengers, not the other way around. It's disturbing how often some need reminding of this.


The crew serve passengers as it would be very boring spending all day with nothing to do. Many do want to relax as well, but part of their job is to keep passengers happy. But the primary thing they are there for is to get your A** off the plane in an emergency.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3619
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:27 am

A320FlyGuy wrote:
I love how everyone goes on about having dimming windows is something new and cutting edge, yet Lockheed had considered the concept back during the development of the L-1011. It was never executed, but it’s just another example of how far-sighted the designers of the L-1011 were.

They are discussed (with photos) in this article:

https://www.airlinereporter.com/2015/09 ... 1-tristar/


It was executed on test air frames, they just decided against them for production units.
 
Checklist787
Posts: 566
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Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:25 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Checklist787 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
You're just providing fuel to those who say it's horrible the way it's been implemented in the 787


Except there are some who say the opposite... :duck:

So, let's make it simple as it appears you have comprehension issues:
- some customers (a good chunk of them?): hate the 787 dimmable windows as the crew can lock the PAX out of their control;
- Colonia: "It is horrible (at least the way Boeing has installed it on the 787)";
- you: what's so horrible? Look, the manufacturer says the FA can centrally control them.

Do you see the flaw in your argumentation?



In truth it is that even if some crews (not all of them, is not true) obscure the windows beacause many passengers appreciate

they do not want daylight for wtch movies for exemple

And your argument actually doesn't help 70-80% of the passengers.

You are just trying to split the wave with a sword. Good luck with that.

Case closed..
"No limit to my poooWer!!!
Do it! "...
 
pune
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:49 am

Exeiowa wrote:
The glaciers of Greenland are an amazing site when the light is right. When I first got to experience them the captain came on the radio to advice us of the opportunity and banked the aircraft a little to give us a better view and encouraged the sharing of the view with our fellow passengers who were not sitting directly at the window. Or alternatively you can sit in perpetual darkness, its up to you.


That is a nice captain, but don't know how many captains are so nice :)
 
chimborazo
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:53 am

It’s not just about seeing the view... it can be hard to see the IFE sometimes with light blazing in- especially of course when directed at your own screen, so just saying everyone affected should get an eye mask is not the answer.
Often it’s possible to go look out the galley window when all the windows are dimmed. I’ve done That. To be fair... it’s more likely for the crew to be okay with it when you’re up front.

I was on a Qatar 787 recently where in business the seat backs are relatively low. I was in 5K and IIRC the young lad in 3A had pointed his personal light at his (highly reflective)IFE screen. It was shining right in my eyes as I was sat up for feed time. Asked the FA to move it and he kindly did.

I’ve often sat on planes and someone’s watch/phone is reflecting the light through an open window either repeatedly flashing across my face or flitting about all over the inside of the cabin. How will wearing an eye mask stop this but allow me to watch the IFE?
 
pune
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Airbus To Offer Dimmable Windows

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:03 am

ikramerica wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

Good because sleep is spoiled too much by that one passenger that opens his window flooding the cabin with light.


Buy a face mask/shade then. If you so want it closed, choose a window seat.

Bring 200 sunshades to pass out. Your attitude is “I am uncivil, you must buy something to deal with me.”

How about the people who leave their window open while they sleep next to it? I buy a window so I can close it for my family, but the person one row up with a window that spills into our row leaves it up and sleeps, with or without eyeshades. This has happened MANY times.


I am one of those, but then I have done in trains as well. There is something calming about seeing the stars or cloud formations and going to short naps or sleep and wake up to that scenario again. I wish I could get some of that chilly air too but the pressurized cabin means I have to make do. While my limit to an aircraft would be 4-5 hours and would probably go for aisle seat so to go to the toilet, flex my legs once in a while (important in long flights.) . I would have also liked to sit near the front of the aircraft but as those are premium seats have never been able to go therein :(

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