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questions
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:02 pm

Has anything definitive been stated about airline terminal moves or still TBD? For example:

1. LA moves to T4 from T8
2. AF, KE and AZ stay in the new T1 or move to T4

Also
3. Will the ownership arrangement of T1 change since the current terminal will be demolished and rebuilt/expanded?
4. Is the extension of T4A intended solely to replace gates due to the loss of T2?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:04 pm

questions wrote:
Has anything definitive been stated about airline terminal moves or still TBD? For example:

1. LA moves to T4 from T8
2. AF, KE and AZ stay in the new T1 or move to T4

Also
3. Will the ownership arrangement of T1 change since the current terminal will be demolished and rebuilt/expanded?
4. Is the extension of T4A intended solely to replace gates due to the loss of T2?

T2 closes at 8:00 PM every night so the T4A extension will add about nine extra gates for nighttime use. This should benefit all the airlines in T4.

Also, this will end the process of towing 767s to T2 for some European departures.
 
flyby519
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:51 pm

HunterATL wrote:
Polot wrote:
golfingboy wrote:

True but maybe some will pop up when the PANYNJ gets tired of AA not using their slots. They got an exemption during the runway construction, but now that is done.

AA keeps squatting slots by scheduling a bunch of flights to cities like RIC/BWI/PIT only to pare down to one daily flight when they lock in the schedule not to mention the Transcontinental flights they have being cancelling on a rolling basis blaming the MAX delays.

DL is probably last on the list of getting any meaningful amount of additional slots. That is the downside of being the large incumbent.

LCCs and airlines like UA (who has expressed regret over leaving JFK) would get priority.


There has been no indication for DOT that new slots will come available or that the slot order will be extended when it expires in October. Many expect the slot order to be continued in some form, but it's not guaranteed.

UA, however, is still the holder of record of a very large slot portfolio at JFK. It's very difficult to argue with a straight face that you should receive new slots when you are leasing your existing portfolio to another carrier. B6 and any other carrier wanting more JFK slots would have a field day with that.


Does anyone have info on UA slot ownership in JFK? I didn’t know they still had any slots and were leasing to someone.
 
jfk777
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:19 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
SEAflyer97 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

There are two lounges at T8. The Flagship Lounge, which also contains a Flagship First Dining section in the head house, and an Admirals Club in the satellite concourse.

That's not enough for BA. There is some mention about a new lounge but i don't know where can they put it.


BA will built its own lounge(s) at T8 and the head house is supposedly getting an extension to house it. Alternatively, a oneworld lounge could be opened in the expanded and renovated T8 given all the OW carriers there by the time the project is complete, with IB and BA joining QF, CX, Finnair, and RJ. And agree, in spite of AA's average of around 73-75 departures a day at the moment, the existing lounge set up and capacity will not be enough once BA moves in. The Flagship Lounge gets pretty crowded in the afternoons from 3pm to around 7:30pm-8:00pm when the bulk of AA's international long hauls from JFK depart.


AA needs to build out Terminal 8 to the original full pre -9/11 plans. IF you look at the checkin area only half was built, the left half of the triangle, now the right half needs to be built.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:52 am

jfk777 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
SEAflyer97 wrote:
That's not enough for BA. There is some mention about a new lounge but i don't know where can they put it.


BA will built its own lounge(s) at T8 and the head house is supposedly getting an extension to house it. Alternatively, a oneworld lounge could be opened in the expanded and renovated T8 given all the OW carriers there by the time the project is complete, with IB and BA joining QF, CX, Finnair, and RJ. And agree, in spite of AA's average of around 73-75 departures a day at the moment, the existing lounge set up and capacity will not be enough once BA moves in. The Flagship Lounge gets pretty crowded in the afternoons from 3pm to around 7:30pm-8:00pm when the bulk of AA's international long hauls from JFK depart.


AA needs to build out Terminal 8 to the original full pre -9/11 plans. IF you look at the checkin area only half was built, the left half of the triangle, now the right half needs to be built.


Not going to happen. The original plan included a second mid-field concourse and yes, as you say, a larger check-in area. The enhancements to T8 being made will include an expansion of the head-house, which houses the check-in area, and that will also include additional gates for wide-body aircraft. BA will build out its own lounge(s) there and they'll likely be in very close proximity to the gates BA will ultimately use. The new ones will be built adjacent to Gates 14 and 16. There is really no need to build out T8 to its full spec. LATAM are moving out on Sunday, with a net loss of 4 flight/aircraft movements in/out per day (GRU, LIM, GYE, SCL). AA is operating 70-75 daily flights at JFK, and not the full 130 slots it has (it keeps getting waivers for its slots due to the 737-MAX crisis). There is plenty of room at T8. CX is reducing frequency to HKG in November, so the full build out with the added gates conceived under the pre-9/11 plan just aren't going to happen.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:19 am

Just a correction,

the original plan did not call for a second midfield concourse

The head house was to be completed and two RJ wings were to have been built off the head house.

The closest concourse was to be slightly bigger to the NE and that is being expanded (somewhat) for BA

The original terminal was planned for a hub operation like Delta has. 200 plus flights a day

That was the AA vision

Never happened.
 
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Polot
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:39 am

jfk777 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
SEAflyer97 wrote:
That's not enough for BA. There is some mention about a new lounge but i don't know where can they put it.


BA will built its own lounge(s) at T8 and the head house is supposedly getting an extension to house it. Alternatively, a oneworld lounge could be opened in the expanded and renovated T8 given all the OW carriers there by the time the project is complete, with IB and BA joining QF, CX, Finnair, and RJ. And agree, in spite of AA's average of around 73-75 departures a day at the moment, the existing lounge set up and capacity will not be enough once BA moves in. The Flagship Lounge gets pretty crowded in the afternoons from 3pm to around 7:30pm-8:00pm when the bulk of AA's international long hauls from JFK depart.


AA needs to build out Terminal 8 to the original full pre -9/11 plans. IF you look at the checkin area only half was built, the left half of the triangle, now the right half needs to be built.


Not needed even if AA grew to a larger hub. Today’s check in space is just fine, the original head house was designed in an era before check in kiosk and airline apps, space requirements are less now.

The RJ wings would also never be built today. They were designed in a pre 9/11 world (where you can quickly get through security and onto plane) with turboprops and 50 seat RJs max in mind. The concourses would be seen as too narrow and crowded for the larger RJs used today, and a terrible passenger experience.
Last edited by Polot on Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
Art at ISP
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:25 pm

Another terminal operating way past its expiration date is Terminal 2. Its almost as old as I am, opening circa 1959. My main concern about JFK however is close in parking. If I read correctly, multiple garages are being torn down at the same time beginning with 4 and 5 later this year. This will be a nightmare for on airport parking. I wonder what their plan is to accommodate all the cars, and hope it’s not like LaGuardia, who bumped the parking rates to near double their current rates.
 
questions
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:13 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Just a correction,

the original plan did not call for a second midfield concourse

The head house was to be completed and two RJ wings were to have been built off the head house.

The closest concourse was to be slightly bigger to the NE and that is being expanded (somewhat) for BA

The original terminal was planned for a hub operation like Delta has. 200 plus flights a day

That was the AA vision

Never happened.


Correct. For clarity, a pic of the original design is in the below link (scroll to the 6th photo).

https://www.airport-technology.com/projects/jfk/

Looking at an aerial photo of JFK in the below link, I wonder why T4 was not designed with concourses parallel to the head house, similar to T8. It seems like it would have been a more effective use of save vs the fingers design. Expansion of the concourses could have proceeded into the former T3 space.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_International_Airport#/media/File%3AJFK_Aerial_Nov_14_2018.jpg
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:20 pm

T4 was designed and built 5 years prior to T8

It had to replace the existing IAB while keeping it open

This resulted in a phased built out that was simply amazing

the Original IAB had concourses parallel to the central terminal area, so the new terminal needed to be built perpendicular to keep 16 gates in operation at all times

Delta further expanded on that footprint post T8 opening
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:24 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
T4 was designed and built 5 years prior to T8

It had to replace the existing IAB while keeping it open

This resulted in a phased built out that was simply amazing

the Original IAB had concourses parallel to the central terminal area, so the new terminal needed to be built perpendicular to keep 16 gates in operation at all times

Delta further expanded on that footprint post T8 opening


Did the IAB handle Northwest international departures or arrivals only?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:27 am

The IAB handled all NW ops: AMS NRT DTW and MSP also partnered AMS
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:45 am

jfklganyc wrote:
The IAB handled all NW ops: AMS NRT DTW and MSP also partnered AMS

When did NW stop using T2?
How many IAB gates did DL gain after the merger?
 
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Polot
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:20 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
The IAB handled all NW ops: AMS NRT DTW and MSP also partnered AMS

When did NW stop using T2?
How many IAB gates did DL gain after the merger?

NW moves to the IAB (and later T4) in the early to mid 90s after their partnership with KLM started.
 
global2
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:35 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
T4 was designed and built 5 years prior to T8


Did the IAB handle Northwest international departures or arrivals only?


In 1983 I flew Northwest from JFK to NRT. I remember vividly departing from T2, I believe gate 5 (they had those large gate number signs both inside and on the terminal exterior). However I cannot recall which terminal I returned to. I don't believe T2 had customs/immigration so I imagine we arrived at the IAB. Can anyone confirm that?
 
Cointrin330
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:47 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
The IAB handled all NW ops: AMS NRT DTW and MSP also partnered AMS


NW operated JFK-NRT, and its JFK-DTW/MSP feeder flights, for a time at the old AA Terminal that preceded T8. There was even signage at the far end of one of the concourses specifically for that flight. This was during the 1980s and early to mid-1990s.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:46 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
The IAB handled all NW ops: AMS NRT DTW and MSP also partnered AMS


NW operated JFK-NRT, and its JFK-DTW/MSP feeder flights, for a time at the old AA Terminal that preceded T8. There was even signage at the far end of one of the concourses specifically for that flight. This was during the 1980s and early to mid-1990s.

So you’re saying that DL kicked NW out of T2 in the 1980s? Maybe there are not enough 747 gates at T2.
 
questions
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:57 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
T4 was designed and built 5 years prior to T8

It had to replace the existing IAB while keeping it open

This resulted in a phased built out that was simply amazing

the Original IAB had concourses parallel to the central terminal area, so the new terminal needed to be built perpendicular to keep 16 gates in operation at all times

Delta further expanded on that footprint post T8 opening


Thanks. I didn’t realize IAB was in operation while T4 was built over it.

It IS amazing to see LGA and LAX T2-3 rebuilt while retaining full operations. I’ve worked with teams who can’t figure out how to order breakfast for a 7AM meeting!
 
Cointrin330
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:22 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
The IAB handled all NW ops: AMS NRT DTW and MSP also partnered AMS


NW operated JFK-NRT, and its JFK-DTW/MSP feeder flights, for a time at the old AA Terminal that preceded T8. There was even signage at the far end of one of the concourses specifically for that flight. This was during the 1980s and early to mid-1990s.

So you’re saying that DL kicked NW out of T2 in the 1980s? Maybe there are not enough 747 gates at T2.


Not exactly sure how you're drawing the conclusion that I was suggesting DL kicked NW out of T2 in the 1980s. NW did have more than a token presence at T2 for a time in the 1980s but my understanding is that they pared down JFK to just NRT (plus the feeder flights to MSP and DTW) and ended up needing just 1 or 2 gates max. This was all before the NW/KL JV that began in 1989. Delta's JFK presence at the time and until it took over Pan Am's TATL routes in 1991 was also limited to T2 and perhaps there just wasn't all that much room there. In any case, I said NW operated from the legacy AA Terminal for a time. I didn't say for a long one, nor did I challenge that it never was at T2.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:47 am

How many gates at T7 are connected to the FIS?
 
Cointrin330
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:26 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
How many gates at T7 are connected to the FIS?


T7? If you mean the current BA Terminal, there is a full FIS facility within it and it is a complete cluster &$*## at busy arrival times. Absolutely not designed to handle the volume that T7 does.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:19 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
How many gates at T7 are connected to the FIS?


T7? If you mean the current BA Terminal, there is a full FIS facility within it and it is a complete cluster &$*## at busy arrival times. Absolutely not designed to handle the volume that T7 does.


It can also be the best arrival in the US if you arrive first
 
ScottB
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:05 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
the Original IAB had concourses parallel to the central terminal area, so the new terminal needed to be built perpendicular to keep 16 gates in operation at all times


Nope. The original IAB had a configuration somewhat similar to the current T4, with a long landside building extending along the access roadway and two perpendicular fingers extending toward the airfield, dividing the landside into roughly thirds. T4's A concourse isn't quite perpendicular and T4 lacks the ticketing wings which the old IAB had east and west of the perpendicular fingers. You can see the IAB in the 1960s here: https://www.airporthistory.org/kennedy-5.html

questions wrote:
I wonder why T4 was not designed with concourses parallel to the head house, similar to T8. It seems like it would have been a more effective use of save vs the fingers design. Expansion of the concourses could have proceeded into the former T3 space.


It's not clear this would have yielded significantly more gates, or even as many. The land available for T4 is a bit oddly-shaped and at the time it was built, T3 was a busy facility controlled by a completely unaffiliated owner. A satellite concourse parallel to the roadway probably would have been able to fit about 20-25 widebody gates, and the landside would have been able to accommodate 10 or so.

Also, the parallel concourse design would have been less suitable to T4's original purpose, which was very similar to the IAB's: to house most of JFK's smaller foreign carriers in a common facility. The need for within-terminal connections was virtually non-existent until Delta moved in a decade after T4 opened. The finger design also works well for bringing international passengers through sterile passageways to a central landside screening point with an exit at curbside.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:55 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
How many gates at T7 are connected to the FIS?


T7? If you mean the current BA Terminal, there is a full FIS facility within it and it is a complete cluster &$*## at busy arrival times. Absolutely not designed to handle the volume that T7 does.


It can also be the best arrival in the US if you arrive first


Best arrivals for FIS is at T8. Large, open airy. Lines generally move quickly, even at peak times.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:54 am

ScottB wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
the Original IAB had concourses parallel to the central terminal area, so the new terminal needed to be built perpendicular to keep 16 gates in operation at all times


Nope. The original IAB had a configuration somewhat similar to the current T4, with a long landside building extending along the access roadway and two perpendicular fingers extending toward the airfield, dividing the landside into roughly thirds. T4's A concourse isn't quite perpendicular and T4 lacks the ticketing wings which the old IAB had east and west of the perpendicular fingers. You can see the IAB in the 1960s here: https://www.airporthistory.org/kennedy-5.html

questions wrote:
I wonder why T4 was not designed with concourses parallel to the head house, similar to T8. It seems like it would have been a more effective use of save vs the fingers design. Expansion of the concourses could have proceeded into the former T3 space.


It's not clear this would have yielded significantly more gates, or even as many. The land available for T4 is a bit oddly-shaped and at the time it was built, T3 was a busy facility controlled by a completely unaffiliated owner. A satellite concourse parallel to the roadway probably would have been able to fit about 20-25 widebody gates, and the landside would have been able to accommodate 10 or so.

Also, the parallel concourse design would have been less suitable to T4's original purpose, which was very similar to the IAB's: to house most of JFK's smaller foreign carriers in a common facility. The need for within-terminal connections was virtually non-existent until Delta moved in a decade after T4 opened. The finger design also works well for bringing international passengers through sterile passageways to a central landside screening point with an exit at curbside.



“With the existing building in operation, construction will begin on the new headhouse and west concourse. Six months later, a temporary arrivals hall will be built and demolition will begin on the arch. A year later, the west concourse will open. A year later, construction will begin on the east concourse. Seven months later, the headhouse will be finished and demolition will begin on the wing buildings. Eleven months later, the east concourse will be complete and all 16 new gates will be open.

''We've made the commitment that we'll never have less than 10 gates in continuous operation,'' Mr. Eichler said.”

-https://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/26/realestate/a-new-kennedy-airport-takes-wing.html
 
ScottB
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:40 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
“With the existing building in operation, construction will begin on the new headhouse and west concourse. Six months later, a temporary arrivals hall will be built and demolition will begin on the arch. A year later, the west concourse will open. A year later, construction will begin on the east concourse. Seven months later, the headhouse will be finished and demolition will begin on the wing buildings. Eleven months later, the east concourse will be complete and all 16 new gates will be open.

''We've made the commitment that we'll never have less than 10 gates in continuous operation,'' Mr. Eichler said.”

-https://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/26/realestate/a-new-kennedy-airport-takes-wing.html


Right, but the point wasn't that the old terminal needed to remain operational while the new terminal was built on the same footprint; rather, the point was that the old terminal had perpendicular (to the headhouse/roadway) concourses just as the current one does (mostly).
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:10 pm

I tried to be polite but your point is incorrect

There were two, stubby perpendicular concourses in the middle of the terminal located astride the current tower. The current tower was a mid 90s build.

The vast majority of the terminal extended out parallel to the land side road from Terminal 3 to Terminal 5

The new terminal has the design it has to allow continuous operation during the build out

Someone asked why the terminal was designed with long concourses as opposed to T8...That is the reason why

The photo you are looking at is pre 1970s 747 expansion on the east and west wings

It also should be noted that the headhouse went into what was the landside to allow for greater ramp space and the longer concourses while allowing a metal building to serve as a temporary arrivals hall on the east side of the current building for several years
 
ScottB
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:46 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
I tried to be polite but your point is incorrect

There were two, stubby perpendicular concourses in the middle of the terminal located astride the current tower. The current tower was a mid 90s build.

The vast majority of the terminal extended out parallel to the land side road from Terminal 3 to Terminal 5

The new terminal has the design it has to allow continuous operation during the build out

Someone asked why the terminal was designed with long concourses as opposed to T8...That is the reason why

The photo you are looking at is pre 1970s 747 expansion on the east and west wings

It also should be noted that the headhouse went into what was the landside to allow for greater ramp space and the longer concourses while allowing a metal building to serve as a temporary arrivals hall on the east side of the current building for several years


You said:

jfklganyc wrote:
the Original IAB had concourses parallel to the central terminal area, so the new terminal needed to be built perpendicular to keep 16 gates in operation at all times


It also had concourses perpendicular to the central terminal area, and from your own quote:

jfklganyc wrote:
''We've made the commitment that we'll never have less than 10 gates in continuous operation,'' Mr. Eichler said.”


There were maybe six gates in total on the east and west wings? Most of the gates were on the perpendicular concourses, and a landside-and-satellite design would have presented a more difficult (although not insurmountable) phasing problem (akin to T8+T9 being replaced by the new T8) due to those perpendicular concourses.

If the old IAB had only had concourses parallel to the CTA, it would have been very straightforward to build a satellite replacing the gate capacity of the old terminal, tear down most of the old terminal (apart from check-in and arrivals), build a temporary facility for those functions, and then build the replacement landside.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:33 pm

Some pictures may help people visualise things here.

The IAB as it stood in 1960:



Overview of the terminals April 1997:


Overview of T3 and some of the IAB and T4 August 1999, showing Pier B under construction just underneath the wing:



View of T3 and part of the IAB southwestern concourse June 2000:



Overview of the terminals July 2000. You can see the Pier B is completed, while the northeastern pier and the end two gates of the southwestern concourse of the IAB are still in use:



A similar view from September 2000 giving a bit more detail. I believe that is Pier A taking shape there:



Overview of T4/IAB May 2001, showing Pier B in use, with the northeastern pier of the IAB still standing:



A pair of views from May 2001 giving a good overview of the T4/IAB site:



Views of T4 December 2001, showing the demolition of the IAB:



An overview of the airport from June 2002, showing the completed T4



An overview of the airport from June 2003. The last remnants of the IAB are now gone.



V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
N649DL
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:58 pm

It's interesting how T-4 was built on top of the IAB just like AA's new T-8 was built on top of the old one.

Also, IIRC wasn't the new T-8 (then known as T9) operating alongside the older T-8 in 2005-2006 and then got completely knocked down later? I definitely remember walking through both at one point around that time.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:25 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
Some pictures may help people visualise things here.

The IAB as it stood in 1960:



Overview of the terminals April 1997:


Overview of T3 and some of the IAB and T4 August 1999, showing Pier B under construction just underneath the wing:



View of T3 and part of the IAB southwestern concourse June 2000:



Overview of the terminals July 2000. You can see the Pier B is completed, while the northeastern pier and the end two gates of the southwestern concourse of the IAB are still in use:



A similar view from September 2000 giving a bit more detail. I believe that is Pier A taking shape there:



Overview of T4/IAB May 2001, showing Pier B in use, with the northeastern pier of the IAB still standing:



A pair of views from May 2001 giving a good overview of the T4/IAB site:



Views of T4 December 2001, showing the demolition of the IAB:



An overview of the airport from June 2002, showing the completed T4



An overview of the airport from June 2003. The last remnants of the IAB are now gone.



V/F

If you look at the 2001/2002 photos, It looks like Pier A was built on top of the IAB East Wing and Pier B was built on top of the IAB West Wing.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:34 pm

N649DL wrote:
It's interesting how T-4 was built on top of the IAB just like AA's new T-8 was built on top of the old one.

Also, IIRC wasn't the new T-8 (then known as T9) operating alongside the older T-8 in 2005-2006 and then got completely knocked down later? I definitely remember walking through both at one point around that time.

Yes, I believe the old T8 remained in operation until the Main Concourse of the new T8 was completed.

After the old T8 was demolished in 2009, AA was able to add 1 or 2 jetways to the Main Concourse. Now they will be adding 2 more jetways to that same concourse.

I believe Terminal 9 (Domestic Terminal) was demolished in 2007.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:52 pm

Are Gates 11 and 12 at Terminal 7 domestic-only gates? Are these the only gates used by Alaska?
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:33 pm

VirginFlyer: Curious, in your May 2001 photo there is a NW DC-9-50(?) at T4. What international flights ex-JFK would NW have operated with that aircraft or did NW move all JFK ops there at some point? Charter maybe?
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:56 pm

T8 has ramp space to the north

That allowed them to build a full midfield concourse to completion before demolishing anything

Different animal then T4 with tight ramp space
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:04 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Are Gates 11 and 12 at Terminal 7 domestic-only gates? Are these the only gates used by Alaska?



I think some of them are domestic only

Alaska uses gates all over the terminal
 
jfk777
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:54 am

blacksoviet wrote:
How many gates at T7 are connected to the FIS?


BA Terminal 7 has 12 gates with 10 connected to the FIS, this terminal's main business are international flights. Even when United was the co-anchor tennant they flew too many international destinations including NRT, LHR, GRU, and EZE. My question is where is Alaska going to go when BA closes up at T7 ?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:02 am

Probably shack up with B6 in the new T6/7

It will be for multiple airlines
 
questions
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:55 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Probably shack up with B6 in the new T6/7

It will be for multiple airlines


Alaska is really good at shacking up with other airlines! :lol:
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:22 am

jfk777 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
How many gates at T7 are connected to the FIS?


BA Terminal 7 has 12 gates with 10 connected to the FIS, this terminal's main business are international flights. Even when United was the co-anchor tennant they flew too many international destinations including NRT, LHR, GRU, and EZE. My question is where is Alaska going to go when BA closes up at T7 ?

Alaska will go to the new Terminal 6 once it gets built. I assume Ukraine International will go there as well. I also assume all gates at the new Terminal 6 will be connected to FIS. How many gates at T5 are connected to the FIS?
 
cpl22586
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:47 am

blacksoviet wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
How many gates at T7 are connected to the FIS?


BA Terminal 7 has 12 gates with 10 connected to the FIS, this terminal's main business are international flights. Even when United was the co-anchor tennant they flew too many international destinations including NRT, LHR, GRU, and EZE. My question is where is Alaska going to go when BA closes up at T7 ?

Alaska will go to the new Terminal 6 once it gets built. I assume Ukraine International will go there as well. I also assume all gates at the new Terminal 6 will be connected to FIS. How many gates at T5 are connected to the FIS?



Im not so sure if Alaska will be going to Terminal 6.

In Terminal 5 gates 25-30 are connected to the FIS.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:29 am

cpl22586 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
jfk777 wrote:

BA Terminal 7 has 12 gates with 10 connected to the FIS, this terminal's main business are international flights. Even when United was the co-anchor tennant they flew too many international destinations including NRT, LHR, GRU, and EZE. My question is where is Alaska going to go when BA closes up at T7 ?

Alaska will go to the new Terminal 6 once it gets built. I assume Ukraine International will go there as well. I also assume all gates at the new Terminal 6 will be connected to FIS. How many gates at T5 are connected to the FIS?



Im not so sure if Alaska will be going to Terminal 6.

In Terminal 5 gates 25-30 are connected to the FIS.

If Alaska is not allowed in Terminal 6, they will have to move to the new Terminal 1 or the Tower Air Terminal. The Tower Air Terminal has its own FIS checkpoint as well as CRT flight status monitors.
 
maddogjt8d
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:40 am

blacksoviet wrote:
cpl22586 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Alaska will go to the new Terminal 6 once it gets built. I assume Ukraine International will go there as well. I also assume all gates at the new Terminal 6 will be connected to FIS. How many gates at T5 are connected to the FIS?



Im not so sure if Alaska will be going to Terminal 6.

In Terminal 5 gates 25-30 are connected to the FIS.

If Alaska is not allowed in Terminal 6, they will have to move to the new Terminal 1 or the Tower Air Terminal. The Tower Air Terminal has its own FIS checkpoint as well as CRT flight status monitors.


You’re right about the CRT flight status displays (I remember those, they had flight info burned in). However the Tower Air terminal never had FIS, their international flights always arrived at the IAB. Only domestic flights parked at the Tower Air terminal, which wasn’t a terminal at all, it was a hangar that they hung 3 jetways from. Not suitable for use post 9/11 or by any modern airline.
 
jfk777
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:06 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
cpl22586 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Alaska will go to the new Terminal 6 once it gets built. I assume Ukraine International will go there as well. I also assume all gates at the new Terminal 6 will be connected to FIS. How many gates at T5 are connected to the FIS?



Im not so sure if Alaska will be going to Terminal 6.

In Terminal 5 gates 25-30 are connected to the FIS.

If Alaska is not allowed in Terminal 6, they will have to move to the new Terminal 1 or the Tower Air Terminal. The Tower Air Terminal has its own FIS checkpoint as well as CRT flight status monitors.


Tower Air Terminal ? That has been closed for years. why would any airline want that dump.
 
delimit
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:21 pm

maddogjt8d wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
cpl22586 wrote:


Im not so sure if Alaska will be going to Terminal 6.

In Terminal 5 gates 25-30 are connected to the FIS.

If Alaska is not allowed in Terminal 6, they will have to move to the new Terminal 1 or the Tower Air Terminal. The Tower Air Terminal has its own FIS checkpoint as well as CRT flight status monitors.


You’re right about the CRT flight status displays (I remember those, they had flight info burned in). However the Tower Air terminal never had FIS, their international flights always arrived at the IAB. Only domestic flights parked at the Tower Air terminal, which wasn’t a terminal at all, it was a hangar that they hung 3 jetways from. Not suitable for use post 9/11 or by any modern airline.

It wasn't suitable for use full stop. Flying Tower was a nightmare.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:45 pm

I just want to clarify the new terminal 6 will not actually be run by B6

Much like the TWA hotel they leant their name as a minority partner

The new terminal already has an operator in place and will be run much like T4 and T1...open to all airlines with B6 branding
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:25 pm

How many gates at T6 will be connected to the FIS?
 
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VHTAE
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:21 pm

It may be only one 787 service daily but Qantas moved to T8 from T7 in April 2018.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:00 pm

How many unused gates will T7 have after Iberia moves out with British?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Terminal 8 Renovation Thread (2020)

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:04 pm

There will be no unused gates..it’s getting demolished

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