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voxkel
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Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:37 pm

AI made their IAD route a 788 flight effective today (Jan 8). What type of restrictions would be placed on this flight, since flying time is consistently above 15h? What were their motives doing this instead of just making it 77L and trying daily 77W on SFO?

Also would this become the world's longest bidirectional nonstop 788 flight? (AM MEX-PVG is not nonstop IIRC.)
 
DCA350
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:20 pm

Do they have crew rest? I can't recall too many airlines installing crew rest on 788s
 
behramjee
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:26 pm

It should have crew rests as they have been using the B788s for 4-5 years now to SYD and MEL nonstop from DEL.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:58 am

Well, Surprisingly AI sending overweight adolescent VT-AND, AI delivery #2 from September 2012. Pretty sure this has no CRA and probably blocked 8xJ for crew.

It would be interesting to know the PLF and load restrictions.
All posts are just opinions.
 
yashk
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:06 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Well, Surprisingly AI sending overweight adolescent VT-AND, AI delivery #2 from September 2012. Pretty sure this has no CRA and probably blocked 8xJ for crew.

It would be interesting to know the PLF and load restrictions.

An old article stating that the last 6 Dreamliners could have crew rests. https://m.timesofindia.com/india/Post-p ... ign=iOSapp

However the AI website seat map is kind of confusing.
1. http://www.airindia.in/images/pdf/787-V ... -Model.pdf - seat map of newer dreamliners have 259 seats and no crew rest
2. http://www.airindia.in/images/pdf/787-T ... -Model.pdf - seat map of older dreamliners with 256 seats + 3 crew rest.

Did AI flip the configurations online or did they refit in crew rests and hence VT-AND could do Del - IAD?
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:01 pm

yashk wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Well, Surprisingly AI sending overweight adolescent VT-AND, AI delivery #2 from September 2012. Pretty sure this has no CRA and probably blocked 8xJ for crew.

It would be interesting to know the PLF and load restrictions.

An old article stating that the last 6 Dreamliners could have crew rests. https://m.timesofindia.com/india/Post-p ... ign=iOSapp

However the AI website seat map is kind of confusing.
1. http://www.airindia.in/images/pdf/787-V ... -Model.pdf - seat map of newer dreamliners have 259 seats and no crew rest
2. http://www.airindia.in/images/pdf/787-T ... -Model.pdf - seat map of older dreamliners with 256 seats + 3 crew rest.

Did AI flip the configurations online or did they refit in crew rests and hence VT-AND could do Del - IAD?


The newer 259 seat version appears to have the overhead cabin crew rest - entrance behind seat 40D, the location of the entrance on all 787s that are fitted with an OCCR.
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:23 pm

yashk wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Well, Surprisingly AI sending overweight adolescent VT-AND, AI delivery #2 from September 2012. Pretty sure this has no CRA and probably blocked 8xJ for crew.

It would be interesting to know the PLF and load restrictions.

An old article stating that the last 6 Dreamliners could have crew rests. https://m.timesofindia.com/india/Post-p ... ign=iOSapp

However the AI website seat map is kind of confusing.
1. http://www.airindia.in/images/pdf/787-V ... -Model.pdf - seat map of newer dreamliners have 259 seats and no crew rest
2. http://www.airindia.in/images/pdf/787-T ... -Model.pdf - seat map of older dreamliners with 256 seats + 3 crew rest.

Did AI flip the configurations online or did they refit in crew rests and hence VT-AND could do Del - IAD?


AI early builds were significantly overweight, and I doubt any of AI 787s have CRA. Weight and additional cost were the issues.

Horizontal crew rest was one of the major issue which forced AI to drop DEL-SYD-MEL triangle route. Crew were asking to block J and AI offered them just Y.

BTW, after successful 15hr03min DEL-IAD mission, return trip was delayed by 4hr:30min, not sure if the delay was related to technical or airport.

If the premium cabin loads are bad, using them for crew is not a bad idea, as long as they respect paid passengers.
All posts are just opinions.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:38 am

VT-AND completed AI104 in 12hr54min. Not bad for a overweight parts plane.

If these birds are capable, AI should try AMD-EWR on 787, that should capture more non-stop traffic and free up LHR slots.
All posts are just opinions.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:43 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Pretty sure this has no CRA and probably blocked 8xJ for crew.


They blocked 8 of 18 business class seats?!? Did they boot some business class passengers to economy? Sounds like a nightmare.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:12 pm

VSMUT wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Pretty sure this has no CRA and probably blocked 8xJ for crew.


Did they boot some business class passengers to economy? Sounds like a nightmare.


I don't think that is necessary if rumors of AI premium cabins always being near empty are valid.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Lemieux
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:16 pm

DCA350 wrote:
Do they have crew rest? I can't recall too many airlines installing crew rest on 788s

Can tell you at least AA has crew rest on their 788 fleet
Full time internet idiot. A319/20/20NEO/21/332/333, Boeing 733/734/737/738/752/753/762/763/772/773/788/789, CR2/7/9, de Havilland DHC-8, Embraer 140/145/175/190, MD82/88.
 
avier
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:59 pm

They had at one point decided to convert the last lot of 6-7 788 orders to the larger 789 one. As the last lot of deliveries happened after a long gap due to the MX issues they had on 787's on early build frames.
However, that proposal was quickly shot down. Silly them. Had they got the few 789's, they wouldn't have to face all the load penalties on their long haul 787 flights to SYD, IAD, etc. It could have come handy for the SFO route too, compared to the fuel hogging 77L.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:29 pm

AI Engineering rejected the 789 swap because they didn't want to go through parts availability issues and learning ropes on yet another low build quality plane type after living through 788 service entry. Fool me once...

AI picked GeNX for their 788, avoided RR issues
AI picked LEAP-1A for their A320NEOs, avoided PW issues
AI also rejected 3x77W to 9xMAX swap, otherwise AI would have 9 sunbathing dilapidated, badly cared MAXes with missing engines.

Sure 789 is a better plane than 788, but AI made the right decision based on Boeing after sales service experience.
All posts are just opinions.
 
xxcr
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:44 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Pretty sure this has no CRA and probably blocked 8xJ for crew.


Did they boot some business class passengers to economy? Sounds like a nightmare.


I don't think that is necessary if rumors of AI premium cabins always being near empty are valid.


Their J and Y seats are terrible anyway!
 
VSMUT
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:58 pm

xxcr wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

Did they boot some business class passengers to economy? Sounds like a nightmare.


I don't think that is necessary if rumors of AI premium cabins always being near empty are valid.


Their J and Y seats are terrible anyway!


It's a lie flat seat. I slept comfortably enough the couple of times I went with them. The rest of the experience was definitely meh.
 
yashk
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:49 pm

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... Tti8M.html

Little insight into why the Dreamliner flies this route. Seems like the 777 can make more money flying DEL-LHR. With such load factors on this route, why doesn’t AI discontinue this route?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:00 pm

VT-AND had 4hr delay on IAD-DEL
VT-ANK was on time
VT-ANM gone tech cancelled IAD-DEL
Lets see what VT-ANI (The scrapped Dreamliner) would do today.
All posts are just opinions.
 
IADCA
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:02 pm

yashk wrote:
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/air-india-s-washington-new-delhi-flight-delayed-by-57-hours-will-arrive-today/story-V3gob69LuRteZXrXlTti8M.html

Little insight into why the Dreamliner flies this route. Seems like the 777 can make more money flying DEL-LHR. With such load factors on this route, why doesn’t AI discontinue this route?


That's a heck of a conclusion to draw off a single flight in the middle of January. A lot of routes look pretty ugly in January, which is why seasonals exit.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:16 pm

Wow incredible!! B787 can fly 15+ hours non-stop.

Opens up so many new destinations for AI to try in US, such as San Jose, Seattle and so on !!
 
emre787
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:25 pm

voxkel wrote:
Also would this become the world's longest bidirectional nonstop 788 flight? (AM MEX-PVG is not nonstop IIRC.)


Also AM discontinued it's PVG flights

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -dec-2019/
 
yashk
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:52 pm

IADCA wrote:
yashk wrote:
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/air-india-s-washington-new-delhi-flight-delayed-by-57-hours-will-arrive-today/story-V3gob69LuRteZXrXlTti8M.html

Little insight into why the Dreamliner flies this route. Seems like the 777 can make more money flying DEL-LHR. With such load factors on this route, why doesn’t AI discontinue this route?


That's a heck of a conclusion to draw off a single flight in the middle of January. A lot of routes look pretty ugly in January, which is why seasonals exit.

Jan is busy time for India - US travel. Just to give you an example: United started its SFO-DEL flight as a winter seasonal initially.

My conclusion of low load factors is not based on this anecdotal flight but more so on the down gauge to 788. A load restricted 788 flying 15+ hours doesn’t seem optimal and AI would only take this option if there weren’t enough people flying this sector which leads me to ask why fly it in the first place.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:55 pm

VSMUT wrote:
xxcr wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

I don't think that is necessary if rumors of AI premium cabins always being near empty are valid.


Their J and Y seats are terrible anyway!


It's a lie flat seat. I slept comfortably enough the couple of times I went with them. The rest of the experience was definitely meh.


Agreed. While the seats are not all direct aisle access, they are quite wide and spacious. Plus AI fits 18 seats where many airlines fit 20. My mom loves the 787 J seats (not the 777) on AI over DL, VS, AF, KL, Swiss, LH. She feels it is the best seat for sleep and most like a real bed. My mom does not watch IFE (where AI really lags). So take it for what it is. Also she finds AI's food to be good. The presentation isn't great but she feels a lot of airlines don't have anything special in presentation. Plus the AI crew is always super nice to her (typical Indian respect for elders). They help her with her carryon (which she acknowledges is not their job but is like a super bonus for her - more than a fancy desert). To each their own I guess. Finally these AI flights arrive into India at normal times (meaning not the middle of the night). So you can connect onward to smaller Indian cities or (like my mom) arrive at our Bombay home at a normal hour to open up the house in daylight. Opening up a home at 3am is not fun nor are the real safety issues of a single woman with luggage being in a taxi alone at 3am.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:58 pm

If 788 is ~20% fuel efficient than 77L and has a lower break-even load factor, a load controlled 788 makes sense for a VFR carrier.

Interestingly AI hasn't made any effort to send newer 788s to IAD.
All posts are just opinions.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:42 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Wow incredible!! B787 can fly 15+ hours non-stop.

Opens up so many new destinations for AI to try in US, such as San Jose, Seattle and so on !!


Hmm :scratchchin:

787's, especially the 789, have no problem flying 15+ hours.
Have you missed the United 787 flights on SFO-SIN, CPT-EWR?

The 788 may take some restrictions on a flight that long, but the 789 is an absolute beast.
Whatever
 
IADCA
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:51 pm

yashk wrote:
IADCA wrote:
yashk wrote:
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/air-india-s-washington-new-delhi-flight-delayed-by-57-hours-will-arrive-today/story-V3gob69LuRteZXrXlTti8M.html

Little insight into why the Dreamliner flies this route. Seems like the 777 can make more money flying DEL-LHR. With such load factors on this route, why doesn’t AI discontinue this route?


That's a heck of a conclusion to draw off a single flight in the middle of January. A lot of routes look pretty ugly in January, which is why seasonals exit.

Jan is busy time for India - US travel. Just to give you an example: United started its SFO-DEL flight as a winter seasonal initially.

My conclusion of low load factors is not based on this anecdotal flight but more so on the down gauge to 788. A load restricted 788 flying 15+ hours doesn’t seem optimal and AI would only take this option if there weren’t enough people flying this sector which leads me to ask why fly it in the first place.


Well, that makes two of us - I was surprised when they started it at all. Maybe they thought there was some premium demand there. I have no idea. It struck me from the beginning as a very long, pretty thin route.
 
VTORD
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:33 pm

yashk wrote:
Jan is busy time for India - US travel. Just to give you an example: United started its SFO-DEL flight as a winter seasonal initially.

My conclusion of low load factors is not based on this anecdotal flight but more so on the down gauge to 788. A load restricted 788 flying 15+ hours doesn’t seem optimal and AI would only take this option if there weren’t enough people flying this sector which leads me to ask why fly it in the first place.


From the HT article:
The remaining passengers stayed back and departed for Delhi on Wednesday after the spare part, which was later called from Newark, arrived on Tuesday.

Airline sources said that the flight took off from Washington at 9.40 am (IST) with six business class and 66 economy class passengers.


Isn't Wednesday one of the days it is scheduled to operate? :scratchchin: So if it left with only 66Y and 6J passengers, was the Wednesday flight supposed to fly empty!!? :o Shouldn't there be more people on that flight if you add the 50% who chose not to go to EWR and the people originally booked to fly on Wednesday? :stirthepot:
 
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asuflyer05
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:46 pm

I imagine they rebooked a lot of passengers on other flights instead of delaying them
57 hour.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:57 pm

The ability to rebook pax on other *A is one of the few advantages AI is enjoying being a member.
All posts are just opinions.
 
yashk
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:58 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
The ability to rebook pax on other *A is one of the few advantages AI is enjoying being a member.

I doubt AI exercises this option. By reading such articles that come up when AI delays a flight, I have noticed AI mostly waits for the plane to be fixed rather than sending passengers on other airlines. In this case, they sent passengers by bus to EWR!
 
pnqiad
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:07 am

I was trying hard to find the source where I read this - but apparently DEL-IAD AI have to block off 20+ seats using a 788 on this route. But the fuel saved more than makes up fr the penalty. IAD-DEL has no issues.
 
EddieDude
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:13 am

voxkel wrote:
Also would this become the world's longest bidirectional nonstop 788 flight? (AM MEX-PVG is not nonstop IIRC.)

As emre787 mentioned, AM discontinued the PVG route. While it was still operational, the outbound was actually MEX-TIJ-PVG. Not sure if the return also stopped in TIJ or was nonstop.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:30 pm

yashk wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
The ability to rebook pax on other *A is one of the few advantages AI is enjoying being a member.

I doubt AI exercises this option. By reading such articles that come up when AI delays a flight, I have noticed AI mostly waits for the plane to be fixed rather than sending passengers on other airlines. In this case, they sent passengers by bus to EWR!


I agree AI did bus passengers to EWR this time, but AI never hesitates to rebook on other airlines even on domestic. Even on short delays there are passengers who collect meal vouchers from AI and get endorsement to fly on other airlines. If you see AI compensation payoffs, way high compared to other airlines who may offer a cup of water or coffee.
All posts are just opinions.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:57 pm

ANI reached DEL on-time. This is the second scrapped AI widebody(after VT-ALH on DEL-SFO) to do a ULH route.

I still think AI should launch AMD-EWR non-stop, use LHR slots for others.
In future, if AI still in business they should lease XLRs for DEL-Europe and start more non-stops to USA on 788.

By switching to 788 AI
Dropped 8F, and 9 galley carts. F is either emply or filled with deadbeat government employees or reward travel = No revenue, maximum expenditure
Dropped 25J, and 14 galley carts. Carry only paid passengers, why give away free upgrades
From 195Y to 238Y (Blocking 40 seats won't reduce capacity)

All in all, less dead weight more paid passengers, I am guessing 788 either makes money, or reduces losses.
All posts are just opinions.
 
LGWGate49
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:56 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
ANI reached DEL on-time. This is the second scrapped AI widebody(after VT-ALH on DEL-SFO) to do a ULH route.

I still think AI should launch AMD-EWR non-stop, use LHR slots for others.
In future, if AI still in business they should lease XLRs for DEL-Europe and start more non-stops to USA on 788.

By switching to 788 AI
Dropped 8F, and 9 galley carts. F is either emply or filled with deadbeat government employees or reward travel = No revenue, maximum expenditure
Dropped 25J, and 14 galley carts. Carry only paid passengers, why give away free upgrades
From 195Y to 238Y (Blocking 40 seats won't reduce capacity)

All in all, less dead weight more paid passengers, I am guessing 788 either makes money, or reduces losses.


I may be wrong, but didn't AI give up LHR-EWR in place of LHR-BLR?
Look for the ridiculous in everything, and you will find it
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:43 pm

LGWGate49 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
ANI reached DEL on-time. This is the second scrapped AI widebody(after VT-ALH on DEL-SFO) to do a ULH route.

I still think AI should launch AMD-EWR non-stop, use LHR slots for others.
In future, if AI still in business they should lease XLRs for DEL-Europe and start more non-stops to USA on 788.

By switching to 788 AI
Dropped 8F, and 9 galley carts. F is either emply or filled with deadbeat government employees or reward travel = No revenue, maximum expenditure
Dropped 25J, and 14 galley carts. Carry only paid passengers, why give away free upgrades
From 195Y to 238Y (Blocking 40 seats won't reduce capacity)

All in all, less dead weight more paid passengers, I am guessing 788 either makes money, or reduces losses.


I may be wrong, but didn't AI give up LHR-EWR in place of LHR-BLR?


Don't know what it was replaced with, but yes AI discontinued their EWR-LHR (EWR-LHR-AMD) flight.

To me EWR to secondary India (AMD, BLR) is viable in terms of traffic, but 788 may not be the right plane in terms of its legs.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:05 pm

LGWGate49 wrote:
I may be wrong, but didn't AI give up LHR-EWR in place of LHR-BLR?


Yes, but still operates AMD-LHR.
All posts are just opinions.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:09 pm

Right now AMD-EWR traffic is routed thru AMD-BOM-EWR or leaked thru AMD-DXB-EWR. A non-stop will not only save minimum of 6hrs of travel time and also motivates more to fly, particularly elderly who hesitate to transfer at an airport with different primary language.
All posts are just opinions.
 
yashk
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:07 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
ANI reached DEL on-time. This is the second scrapped AI widebody(after VT-ALH on DEL-SFO) to do a ULH route.

I still think AI should launch AMD-EWR non-stop, use LHR slots for others.
In future, if AI still in business they should lease XLRs for DEL-Europe and start more non-stops to USA on 788.

By switching to 788 AI
Dropped 8F, and 9 galley carts. F is either emply or filled with deadbeat government employees or reward travel = No revenue, maximum expenditure
Dropped 25J, and 14 galley carts. Carry only paid passengers, why give away free upgrades
From 195Y to 238Y (Blocking 40 seats won't reduce capacity)

All in all, less dead weight more paid passengers, I am guessing 788 either makes money, or reduces losses.

AI 103/4 was on the 77W and not 77L. DEL-EWR (Afternoon departure from delhi) would be better than AMD-EWR. AI used to operate a 77W on AMD-BOM-EWR but now uses an A320 for the AMD-BOM sector.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:05 pm

yashk wrote:
AI 103/4 was on the 77W and not 77L. DEL-EWR (Afternoon departure from delhi) would be better than AMD-EWR. AI used to operate a 77W on AMD-BOM-EWR but now uses an A320 for the AMD-BOM sector.


So that is a capacity loss of 4F/25J/65Y(105Y if 40 seats are blocked). What was the LF with 77W on DEL-IAD.

BOM-EWR never seen its full potential, either headwinds or bill boards, it always had load restrictions.
Start AMD-EWR non-stop and downgauge BOM-EWR.

It would be nice to know if AI can cover costs with 10J and 178Y not heavily discounted tickets on a 788.
All posts are just opinions.
 
voxkel
Topic Author
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:02 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
yashk wrote:
AI 103/4 was on the 77W and not 77L. DEL-EWR (Afternoon departure from delhi) would be better than AMD-EWR. AI used to operate a 77W on AMD-BOM-EWR but now uses an A320 for the AMD-BOM sector.


So that is a capacity loss of 4F/25J/65Y(105Y if 40 seats are blocked). What was the LF with 77W on DEL-IAD.

BOM-EWR never seen its full potential, either headwinds or bill boards, it always had load restrictions.
Start AMD-EWR non-stop and downgauge BOM-EWR.

It would be nice to know if AI can cover costs with 10J and 178Y not heavily discounted tickets on a 788.


Another thing they could do is a daily 788 EWR-DEL, with 4/w continue to AMD and 3/w to BOM, ending nonstop BOM. UA and DL have much better products on BOM nonstop, and AI gains so much connectivity if they just fly to DEL. UA flies an old 77E to DEL, AI can compete well here with 788.
 
voxkel
Topic Author
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:13 pm

One other thing AI could try is a daily YYZ on 788. Would be slightly higher capacity but not that much more than current 3/w 77W and complete better with AC daily flight.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:15 pm

voxkel wrote:
One other thing AI could try is a daily YYZ on 788. Would be slightly higher capacity but not that much more than current 3/w 77W and complete better with AC daily flight.


AI is moving to daily 77W this spring, and AC is maintaining daily 77W service on the route as well through the S20 season.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8267
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:13 pm

voxkel wrote:
...
Another thing they could do is a daily 788 EWR-DEL, with 4/w continue to AMD and 3/w to BOM, ending nonstop BOM. UA and DL have much better products on BOM nonstop, and AI gains so much connectivity if they just fly to DEL. UA flies an old 77E to DEL, AI can compete well here with 788.


Well AI can try AMD-EWR, BOM-JFK/EWR and DEL-JFK with 788s. Partner with Jet Blue at JFK. UA will never be a eager partner to promote AI.

IMHO domestic wide-body tags reduce crew productivity. Should be avoided.
All posts are just opinions.
 
hohd
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Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:24 pm

voxkel wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
yashk wrote:
AI 103/4 was on the 77W and not 77L. DEL-EWR (Afternoon departure from delhi) would be better than AMD-EWR. AI used to operate a 77W on AMD-BOM-EWR but now uses an A320 for the AMD-BOM sector.


So that is a capacity loss of 4F/25J/65Y(105Y if 40 seats are blocked). What was the LF with 77W on DEL-IAD.

BOM-EWR never seen its full potential, either headwinds or bill boards, it always had load restrictions.
Start AMD-EWR non-stop and downgauge BOM-EWR.

It would be nice to know if AI can cover costs with 10J and 178Y not heavily discounted tickets on a 788.


Another thing they could do is a daily 788 EWR-DEL, with 4/w continue to AMD and 3/w to BOM, ending nonstop BOM. UA and DL have much better products on BOM nonstop, and AI gains so much connectivity if they just fly to DEL. UA flies an old 77E to DEL, AI can compete well here with 788.


BOW-EWR is probably one of the most profitable (operational profit) and recognizable routes for AI and the on board product is as good as UA (I flew both for comparison). For an Indian origin person, AI is better than UA, more IFE options on Indian languages when compared to UA and food is about just as good or better. And AI has 2 pieces of bags free for economy passengers vs UA which has only 1. That is the probably why AI is competing well with UA and this will enable it to compete well on the SFO-DEL route as well.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:32 pm

hohd wrote:
BOW-EWR is probably one of the most profitable (operational profit) and recognizable routes for AI and the on board product is as good as UA (I flew both for comparison)..


Is BOM-EWR viable because of AMD feed or on its own? If AMD fills most of the BOM-EWR 77W, An AMD-EWR will get even more traffic by reclaiming the AMD-DXB-EWR leakage.

To adapt downguage BOM-EWR to 788.to even move to BOM-JFK.
All posts are just opinions.
 
fortunerunnner
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:31 pm

Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:23 pm

hohd wrote:
That is the probably why AI is competing well with UA and this will enable it to compete well on the SFO-DEL route as well.


I dont know what kind of state 77Ws which flies to EWR are but 77Ls which fly the SFO route are in pretty bad shape with most if not all seatback IFEs broken. My wife, my in laws and my parents all have flown AI through various years on SFO-DEL route due to convenience it offers but their in flight product severely lacks in comparison with any other airline. AI is competitive on the route only because of non-stop and connections it can offer to people originating in Indian cities which lack ME3 options like Pune, Bhopal, Indoor etc.
 
VTORD
Posts: 718
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:48 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
hohd wrote:
BOW-EWR is probably one of the most profitable (operational profit) and recognizable routes for AI and the on board product is as good as UA (I flew both for comparison)..


Is BOM-EWR viable because of AMD feed or on its own? If AMD fills most of the BOM-EWR 77W, An AMD-EWR will get even more traffic by reclaiming the AMD-DXB-EWR leakage.

To adapt downguage BOM-EWR to 788.to even move to BOM-JFK.

If the logic is that the Gujarati diaspora is driving the EWR flight then by all means BOM is quite capable of holding it's own. Sizable non-Parsi Gujarati speaking population. Plus
AI has decent connecting options in to BOM compared to AMD plus
Indian IT MNCs resourcing groups based out of Mumbai will make sure that flight can sustain.

A n/s AMD-EWR? With a catchment area in the quadrilateral between Viramgam - Vadodara - Godhra - Mehsana could potentially compete as an attractive option v the DXB n/s. Maybe 3xWeekly to begin with. Daily, I'd say not yet.

hohd wrote:
And AI has 2 pieces of bags free for economy passengers vs UA which has only 1

Even DL is giving 2 free bags on their JFK flight.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8267
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Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:12 am

VTORD wrote:
If the logic is that the Gujarati diaspora is driving the EWR flight then by all means BOM is quite capable of holding it's own. Sizable non-Parsi Gujarati speaking population. Plus
AI has decent connecting options in to BOM compared to AMD plus
Indian IT MNCs resourcing groups based out of Mumbai will make sure that flight can sustain.

A n/s AMD-EWR? With a catchment area in the quadrilateral between Viramgam - Vadodara - Godhra - Mehsana could potentially compete as an attractive option v the DXB n/s. Maybe 3xWeekly to begin with. Daily, I'd say not yet.


Yes, that is the hypothesis. Drop AMD-LHR, start AMD-EWR on 787, downguage BOM-EWR/JFK to 787, start BOM-LHR on 77W (using AMD slot)

BTW, looks like AI is sending different 787 to IAD everytime, six regs did so far.
All posts are just opinions.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1202
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:33 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
VTORD wrote:
If the logic is that the Gujarati diaspora is driving the EWR flight then by all means BOM is quite capable of holding it's own. Sizable non-Parsi Gujarati speaking population. Plus
AI has decent connecting options in to BOM compared to AMD plus
Indian IT MNCs resourcing groups based out of Mumbai will make sure that flight can sustain.

A n/s AMD-EWR? With a catchment area in the quadrilateral between Viramgam - Vadodara - Godhra - Mehsana could potentially compete as an attractive option v the DXB n/s. Maybe 3xWeekly to begin with. Daily, I'd say not yet.


Yes, that is the hypothesis. Drop AMD-LHR, start AMD-EWR on 787, downguage BOM-EWR/JFK to 787, start BOM-LHR on 77W (using AMD slot)

BTW, looks like AI is sending different 787 to IAD everytime, six regs did so far.


AMD-EWR won’t happen. The premium end of the Gujarati VFR and business families are going to BOM (and maybe a side trip to Gujarat which doesn’t always mean AMD). It is one of the biggest misunderstandings on this forum that foreign Gujaratis mean going to AMD. Also there is no real business traffic between the US and AMD besides rich VFR. And JFK-ATQ is even less likely to happen (again here rich Punjabis are going to DEL in a disproportional amount)
 
x1234
Posts: 827
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Air India 788 DEL-IAD nonstop?

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:41 am

fortunerunner, you can now fly UA on SFO-DEL.

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