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Morvious
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:33 pm

ranold76 wrote:
I applaud the Iranian citizens who are getting these pictures and videos out on the internet for the world to see. I would think there is potential major duress hanging overhead in doing so.


Yes indeed, that must be said!!

Like I said earlier, that is just the reason why I understand why these come from new / fake accounts, not showing much from the surrounding area!
have a good day,

HereThen
 
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KPDX
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:34 pm

dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


No. This isn't Hollywood. Things don't automatically just erupt in a giant fireball when a missle hits it.
 
xmp125a
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:34 pm

dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane should explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


No, because SAM missiles do not "hit" the airplane. They are triggered by proximity fuse, and they explode close to the aircraft, relying on flying shrapnel do mortal damage the aircraft. There is reason for this - if you explode a missile in proximity, your missile does not need to be very accurate. These missiles have to target military jets and hitting an object 2 meters in diameter in supersonic speed is a very difficult task. It is easier to detonate the payload in close vicinity and let shrapnel do its work.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:35 pm

dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


Not the type of missile that would have been shot at the plane.

And it's a pretty good fake to shoot a video from a precise location and angle relative to the crash, as well as timing the video and audio perfectly to match exactly where the plane suddenly lost contact, then add residual background audio (dogs barking and car alarms) that would be consistent with a large explosion
Last edited by smokeybandit on Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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litz
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:36 pm

dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


This has been explained a few times ... but the missiles don't set the target on fire ... they send metal shrapnel at the target. e.g., they're kinetic weapons, not incendiary.

Unless that shrapnel hits something that ignites a fire, you get a wing tank with a bunch of holes in it, and lots of fuel dispersing into the airstream. With no fire.
 
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dara88
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:37 pm

KPDX wrote:
dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


No. This isn't Hollywood. Things don't automatically just erupt in a giant fireball when a missle hits it.


So you think a fired missile doesn't have a sound, someone would record a video from the dark sky without any obvious reason, and a hit plane with a full tank doesn't ignite immediately. Well, I totally disagree with you. I'm not telling that there is not a chance that the plane had been hit, but this video... well I think it's totally fake.
 
leghorn
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:37 pm

The fuel is almost like diesel. You can throw a lit match in to Diesel and it usually will not ignite. even stale petrol won't ignite with a lit match. I know, I experimented extensively as a child.
 
JAAlbert
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:37 pm

SEA wrote:

Why would Iran shoot down an airliner full of its own citizens intentionally?


News outlets are stating the missile was unintentional which would make much more sense -- except that, why does Iran have an active missile launcher near the international airport? Tehran is quite a distance from all the confrontations and disputes happening in the gulf, I wouldn't think they'd feel the need for such weapons so far away.

Another question, how in the world do you unintentionally launch a missile in a populated, civilian area?
 
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dara88
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:38 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


Not the type of missile that would have been shot at the plane.

And it's a pretty good fake to shoot a video from a precise location and angle relative to the crash, as well as timing the video and audio perfectly to match exactly where the plane suddenly lost contact, then add residual background audio (dogs barking and car alarms) that would be consistent with a large explosion


How can you be so sure about the location? From the not very clear data of google maps? Come on...
 
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TheZ
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:40 pm

That video really hurts to watch... this is just awful.
If you have to say "pun intended," it's not a good enough pun.
 
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dara88
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:40 pm

KPDX wrote:
dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


No. This isn't Hollywood. Things don't automatically just erupt in a giant fireball when a missle hits it.


Yeah it'd definitely not Hollywood. Nobody will take a video of the dark sky with the target being right in the middle of the frame; at 6:15 AM. And without any reaction after the so called missile hits the target!
Last edited by dara88 on Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Viper911
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:41 pm

dara88 wrote:
KPDX wrote:
dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


No. This isn't Hollywood. Things don't automatically just erupt in a giant fireball when a missle hits it.


So you think a fired missile doesn't have a sound, someone would record a video from the dark sky without any obvious reason, and a hit plane with a full tank doesn't ignite immediately. Well, I totally disagree with you. I'm not telling that there is not a chance that the plane had been hit, but this video... well I think it's totally fake.


Missiles at altitude don't produce as much sound as when they're being launched, plus this video was shot using a very low quality camera and mic so low sound and video quality are to be expected, and lastly if you really listen to it, there is a noticeable difference between the sound recorded before and after the explosion.

Viper911
 
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Polot
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:41 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
SEA wrote:

Why would Iran shoot down an airliner full of its own citizens intentionally?


News outlets are stating the missile was unintentional which would make much more sense -- except that, why does Iran have an active missile launcher near the international airport? Tehran is quite a distance from all the confrontations and disputes happening in the gulf, I wouldn't think they'd feel the need for such weapons so far away.

Another question, how in the world do you unintentionally launch a missile in a populated, civilian area?

Missile launchers are near major international airports and populated area all the time. Do you think, for example, that there are none in DC?

Tehran is the capital. Iran obviously wants to protect it.
 
N212R
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:41 pm

Well it took them a little while to get the script straight...but we can now proceed to the next act.
 
sgrow787
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:42 pm

adamant365 wrote:
There are multiple types of radar. Usually just observation (search) radars may be used all the time. They have large coverage but can't necessarily track a target for missile guidance. To track a target, a tracking radar would be used. These only activate when preparing for a launch. I'm assuming what the Pentagon refers to when they mention the radar is the tracking radar. The SA-15 has a type of tracking radar that would be easily distinguished from, say, an SA-6 or SA-10. The CBS report specifically mentions "SA-15" so I'm guessing the Pentagon knew exactly the radar that activated.


From what I can tell from this link, the TOR-M1 (aka SA-15 Gauntlet) SAM is a self-contained autonomous mobile integrated air defense system:
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_ ... es_uk.html

The target acquisition radar is a 3D F band pulse doppler radar, equipped with a truncated parabolic antenna, and a mechanically, later electronically, scanned in azimuth with a 32-degree sector view, and has an average power output of 1.5 kW, which provides a maximum detection range of 25 km/16 mi.


This would be advantageous if you were concerned about enemy forces geolocating a stationary radar source to take out.
Just one sensor,
Oh just one se-en-sor,
Just one sensor,
Ooh ooh oo-ooh
Oo-oo-ooh.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:43 pm

dara88 wrote:
KPDX wrote:
dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


No. This isn't Hollywood. Things don't automatically just erupt in a giant fireball when a missle hits it.


Yeah it'd definitely not Hollywood. Nobody will take a video of the dark sky with the target being right in the middle of the frame; at 6:15 AM.


So you know for sure that 19 seconds is the only video that was taken? It's more than likely there was a lot more video (why was he taking the video? Who knows, maybe what we saw was missile 2 and missile 1 made him start recording) than the clip that was sent along to the person who tweeted it.
 
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NYPECO
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:43 pm

dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


No because those kinds of missiles fire shrapnel into the aircraft, which wouldn't cause an explosion. That's the exact same way the missile which took down MH17 did so.

I think hearing a missile shooting across the sky is a good reason to maybe pull out your phone and start recording. So I'm not sure how you could come to the conclusion that it's definitely fake just from those two things.
 
xmp125a
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:44 pm

dara88 wrote:
KPDX wrote:
dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


No. This isn't Hollywood. Things don't automatically just erupt in a giant fireball when a missle hits it.


So you think a fired missile doesn't have a sound, someone would record a video from the dark sky without any obvious reason, and a hit plane with a full tank doesn't ignite immediately. Well, I totally disagree with you. I'm not telling that there is not a chance that the plane had been hit, but this video... well I think it's totally fake.


Oh jeez. Sound travels much slower than light, so there is a delay. And, there were two missiles fired, per western intelligence. Perhaps the first missile - the one that missed - basically caused people to start filming what the hell is going on.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:44 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
SEA wrote:

Why would Iran shoot down an airliner full of its own citizens intentionally?


News outlets are stating the missile was unintentional which would make much more sense -- except that, why does Iran have an active missile launcher near the international airport? Tehran is quite a distance from all the confrontations and disputes happening in the gulf, I wouldn't think they'd feel the need for such weapons so far away.

Another question, how in the world do you unintentionally launch a missile in a populated, civilian area?

Um have you been following a news? They just launched a bunch of missiles against US targets in Iraq. Do we really need to explain the rest?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:45 pm

Redd wrote:
airhansa wrote:
The problem with a fire causing problems for the aircraft, is that such a fire would never spread so quickly to result in a situation where the pilot doesn't mayday for help.


1. Aviate
2. Navigate
3. Communicate

Whether it was a missile or uncontained engine failure or another cause, the pilots first job is to fly the plane first, communicate last. If the pilots are dealing with a critical situation, there is no reasonable expectation that they would have communicated with ATC.


There’s no communicating when the electrics go dead in an instant as seen by sudden loss of ADS-B data.
 
xmp125a
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:45 pm

NYPECO wrote:
dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


No because those kinds of missiles fire shrapnel into the aircraft, which wouldn't cause an explosion. That's the exact same way the missile which took down MH17 did so.

I think hearing a missile shooting across the sky is a good reason to maybe pull out your phone and start recording. So I'm not sure how you could come to the conclusion that it's definitely fake just from those two things.


All that at the time where basically whole Iran waited for US retaliatory strike, so perhaps quite a few curious people were observing the sky with their phones ready to record barrage from the skies.
 
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litz
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:46 pm

dara88 wrote:
Nobody will take a video of the dark sky with the target being right in the middle of the frame; at 6:15 AM. And without any reaction after the so called missile hits the target!


I saw a note earlier that the person who filmed that video was walking their dog.

Trust me, when a dog decides it's gotta pee at 6:15am, you're outside with said dog, so it can pee. They do not understand "it's 6:15am, go back to sleep".

Very believable they saw something unusual and did what everyone else these days does : pulled out their phone and started filming it.

That they caught the missile strike was very, very lucky for them and it produced a fairly profound piece of evidence as to what happened.
 
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dara88
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:47 pm

NYPECO wrote:
dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


No because those kinds of missiles fire shrapnel into the aircraft, which wouldn't cause an explosion. That's the exact same way the missile which took down MH17 did so.

I think hearing a missile shooting across the sky is a good reason to maybe pull out your phone and start recording. So I'm not sure how you could come to the conclusion that it's definitely fake just from those two things.


Can you hear a missile shooting into the sky in that video? Well I cant.
 
IWMBH
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:48 pm

To bad that apparently nothing was learned from MH17, I hoped that It was the wake-up call airlines needed to stop flying over conflict-zones. Especially Ukrainian Airlines.
 
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litz
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:48 pm

sgrow787 wrote:
The target acquisition radar is a 3D F band pulse doppler radar, equipped with a truncated parabolic antenna, and a mechanically, later electronically, scanned in azimuth with a 32-degree sector view, and has an average power output of 1.5 kW, which provides a maximum detection range of 25 km/16 mi.


This would be advantageous if you were concerned about enemy forces geolocating a stationary radar source to take out.


No kidding ... with only a few seconds of radar pulse, following by a launch, you can boogie on out to another physical location in next to no time, making any kind of reprisal difficult at best.
 
xmp125a
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:49 pm

dara88 wrote:
NYPECO wrote:
dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


No because those kinds of missiles fire shrapnel into the aircraft, which wouldn't cause an explosion. That's the exact same way the missile which took down MH17 did so.

I think hearing a missile shooting across the sky is a good reason to maybe pull out your phone and start recording. So I'm not sure how you could come to the conclusion that it's definitely fake just from those two things.


Can you hear a missile shooting into the sky in that video? Well I cant.


You can't because sound travels slower than light.
 
Morvious
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:50 pm

dara88 wrote:
KPDX wrote:
dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


No. This isn't Hollywood. Things don't automatically just erupt in a giant fireball when a missle hits it.


So you think a fired missile doesn't have a sound, someone would record a video from the dark sky without any obvious reason, and a hit plane with a full tank doesn't ignite immediately. Well, I totally disagree with you. I'm not telling that there is not a chance that the plane had been hit, but this video... well I think it's totally fake.


Sources claim two missiles were fired.

According to internet sources that tracked the location from this video (which matches the plane and SAM site) the plane did already lost his transponder (probably all electrics) at this point. This tells me this was the second missile fired, which could be why it was filmed and why he tracked the plane.
have a good day,

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Polot
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:50 pm

dara88 wrote:
NYPECO wrote:
dara88 wrote:
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


No because those kinds of missiles fire shrapnel into the aircraft, which wouldn't cause an explosion. That's the exact same way the missile which took down MH17 did so.

I think hearing a missile shooting across the sky is a good reason to maybe pull out your phone and start recording. So I'm not sure how you could come to the conclusion that it's definitely fake just from those two things.


Can you hear a missile shooting into the sky in that video? Well I cant.

What a phone’s crappy mic hears is not necessarily representative of what a human’s superior ear hear.
 
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Raiden
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:51 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
News outlets are stating the missile was unintentional which would make much more sense -- except that, why does Iran have an active missile launcher near the international airport?
Of course they have anti aircraft defense near the capital city (by definition a major target of potential enemy aircraft.

The issue is why they fired it by mistake. The answer to that is the "fog of war". Mistakes happen anyway but during a military conflict they exponentially increase (because of lots of generals who have the go-ahead to pull the trigger).

Iran was busy sending missiles over to Iraqi US bases so obviously they may have been extra itchy and on the lookout for US drones or whatever — the next thing you know someone saw something on the radar and pressed the fire button too quickly
Last edited by Raiden on Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:51 pm

Comparison of a missile launch when one is standing right but the launcher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD89dfazy5o

Notice how quickly it goes quiet...
Last edited by washingtonflyer on Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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dara88
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:52 pm

xmp125a wrote:
dara88 wrote:
KPDX wrote:

No. This isn't Hollywood. Things don't automatically just erupt in a giant fireball when a missle hits it.


So you think a fired missile doesn't have a sound, someone would record a video from the dark sky without any obvious reason, and a hit plane with a full tank doesn't ignite immediately. Well, I totally disagree with you. I'm not telling that there is not a chance that the plane had been hit, but this video... well I think it's totally fake.


Oh jeez. Sound travels much slower than light, so there is a delay. And, there were two missiles fired, per western intelligence. Perhaps the first missile - the one that missed - basically caused people to start filming what the hell is going on.


I meant that the missile, during its travel, is not making ANY sound. And why wouldn't the person follow the missile? If you were filming, wouldn't you follow the missile instead of the plane?
 
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dara88
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:53 pm

xmp125a wrote:
dara88 wrote:
NYPECO wrote:

No because those kinds of missiles fire shrapnel into the aircraft, which wouldn't cause an explosion. That's the exact same way the missile which took down MH17 did so.

I think hearing a missile shooting across the sky is a good reason to maybe pull out your phone and start recording. So I'm not sure how you could come to the conclusion that it's definitely fake just from those two things.


Can you hear a missile shooting into the sky in that video? Well I cant.


You can't because sound travels slower than light.


Well definitely before the explosion sound, you should've heard it if it wasn't fake.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:54 pm

dara88 wrote:
Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.


If my country was firing missiles at a neighbour 2 hours earlier, I too would probably be in my garden right now looking into the night sky to see if I could see or film anything.
 
Pentaprism
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:54 pm

Yeah if they did shoot it down it would be beyond stupid not to admit it. And given that the USA, Ukraine and Russia have all made the same mistake, it doesn't look as bad as might otherwise be the case.

The fact they are claiming the Crew tried to turn back means either it wasn't a missile or they are planning to try to cover up.

But Militaries really do need to screen and train people operating these systems a lot better. To mistake a friendly Commercial Airliner that has just taken off from your own Main Airport for anything other than what it was it hard to fathom. Perhaps they need some sort of system where 2 operators located in separate areas need to both enter a code or something before the missile releases. Similar to Security Arrangements for releasing Nuclear Missiles.

It continues to surprise me Commercial Airlines fly over Syria.
 
southsidesilver
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:55 pm

dara88 wrote:
xmp125a wrote:
dara88 wrote:

So you think a fired missile doesn't have a sound, someone would record a video from the dark sky without any obvious reason, and a hit plane with a full tank doesn't ignite immediately. Well, I totally disagree with you. I'm not telling that there is not a chance that the plane had been hit, but this video... well I think it's totally fake.


Oh jeez. Sound travels much slower than light, so there is a delay. And, there were two missiles fired, per western intelligence. Perhaps the first missile - the one that missed - basically caused people to start filming what the hell is going on.


I meant that the missile, during its travel, is not making ANY sound. And why wouldn't the person follow the missile? If you were filming, wouldn't you follow the missile instead of the plane?


You know not all missiles make sounds when in flight, I think your imagining something more like a Rocket. Very different.
I make videos about my airplane travels.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:58 pm

rheinwaldner wrote:
zhetenyi1973 wrote:
And if you carefully watch the video from the car you will notice that it began with a faint light which

Forget the video. It shows nothing relevant. After ADSB data dropped, the plane flew 20km. The cause of the descend is not shown on any video.

The unanswered question for me is, how could the plane be knocked out electrically (no ADBS feed anymore) and still fly for several minutes on a rather shallow descend (~1:10)?

The missile theory is about as unprobable as the uncontained engine failure to explain that, imo.

737 has 100% reversion to manual flight control, thanks to it's rugged 1960's design.
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xmp125a
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:58 pm

dara88 wrote:
xmp125a wrote:
dara88 wrote:

Can you hear a missile shooting into the sky in that video? Well I cant.


You can't because sound travels slower than light.


Well definitely before the explosion sound, you should've heard it if it wasn't fake.


How? If the plane were above you (1.5-3 km high, don't know exactly at what height above ground it was), it would be 3-6 seconds before you would hear sound of an explosion.

Obviously the video was taken at an angle, so it is likely that the distance is 5 km or more, so the delay of the sound would be 15 seconds or more.
 
IndrekAas
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Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:59 pm

There is also video of impact

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7El6uhBOM_/
 
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dara88
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:35 pm

Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:59 pm

southsidesilver wrote:
dara88 wrote:
xmp125a wrote:

Oh jeez. Sound travels much slower than light, so there is a delay. And, there were two missiles fired, per western intelligence. Perhaps the first missile - the one that missed - basically caused people to start filming what the hell is going on.


I meant that the missile, during its travel, is not making ANY sound. And why wouldn't the person follow the missile? If you were filming, wouldn't you follow the missile instead of the plane?


You know not all missiles make sounds when in flight, I think your imagining something more like a Rocket. Very different.


They are claiming it was a Tor Missile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Y5DT4oPpc
Doesn't it make any sound?
 
flybucky
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:44 pm

Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:59 pm

xmp125a wrote:
OEMInsider wrote:
A missile strike was always a possibility for this, but we needed evidence. I'm not convinced by the head of the missile in a ditch - nothing to show where that picture was taken, .

People, just read the news! Justin Trudeau confirmed that western intelligence services now think that iranians shot down the airplane by mistake. It is all over mainstream media, so no need to speculate.

You misunderstood OEMInsider's post. That was just his preface. His actual conclusion was:
"The answer is - it seems to completely line up." and provided images lining up the flight path, missile path, everything: https://imgur.com/a/V1SlDty

OEMInsider's post #1563 was high quality content. It should be pinned to this thread (if there was such a feature).
 
ptwings
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:37 pm

Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:01 pm

Interesting geolocation-analysis done here about the last video:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ELINTNews/st ... 9046226944
 
Miquel787
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:11 am

Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:01 pm

I.m from the Netherlands and the first thing i thought; No technical issue..sudden contact loss, similar with the MH17 tragedy.No emergency calls from the pilots. I had a bad feeling about this. Another loss of innocent lives. Trudeau called our PM to seek advice how to deal with this tragedy. There are so many sources confirming a shootdown. It was on national tv here this night. Investigation is in the early stages but Trudea wouldn.t appear on tv if he wasn.t damn sure what was going on.. There was no
engine failure. This accident has a bad bad aftertaste.
.
 
p2philip
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:44 am

Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:01 pm

Hey dara88 I don’t mean to sound rude but ALL the answers/explanations to your doubts are to be found in this admittedly long thread well before your post. So instead of raising the same concerns all over again I suggest some comprehensive reading. I respect different opinions but using words like „ definitely“ and at the same time ignoring logical information from various sources does not shed the best light on you... unless you intent to troll this thread, in that case good job so far.
 
xmp125a
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:01 pm

Pentaprism wrote:

The fact they are claiming the Crew tried to turn back means either it wasn't a missile or they are planning to try to cover up.


Or there may be a genuine minor problem with a plane, they prepared perhaps to divert, and unwillingly overflew an area that no one expected civilian plane to be in, the trigger happy guys sweating and wondering when the US planes or missiles will appear, simply pulled the trigger...
 
Globetraveller
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:36 pm

Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:02 pm

dara88 wrote:
southsidesilver wrote:
dara88 wrote:

I meant that the missile, during its travel, is not making ANY sound. And why wouldn't the person follow the missile? If you were filming, wouldn't you follow the missile instead of the plane?


You know not all missiles make sounds when in flight, I think your imagining something more like a Rocket. Very different.


They are claiming it was a Tor Missile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Y5DT4oPpc
Doesn't it make any sound?


I think you need to listen to the video with the volume up. You can very clearly hear the noise of the missile before the explosion and then the quiet thereafter. As others have mentioned, the sound is obviously delayed by a couple of seconds as light travels faster than sound.
 
sgrow787
Posts: 450
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 8:12 pm

Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:04 pm

litz wrote:
sgrow787 wrote:
The target acquisition radar is a 3D F band pulse doppler radar, equipped with a truncated parabolic antenna, and a mechanically, later electronically, scanned in azimuth with a 32-degree sector view, and has an average power output of 1.5 kW, which provides a maximum detection range of 25 km/16 mi.


This would be advantageous if you were concerned about enemy forces geolocating a stationary radar source to take out.


No kidding ... with only a few seconds of radar pulse, following by a launch, you can boogie on out to another physical location in next to no time, making any kind of reprisal difficult at best.


Out of curiosity, does the US have a comparable version of the TOR-M1?
Just one sensor,
Oh just one se-en-sor,
Just one sensor,
Ooh ooh oo-ooh
Oo-oo-ooh.
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 2368
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:04 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
dara88 wrote:
zhetenyi1973 wrote:
dara88 is either a troll or a .......
Either case, just ignore him.


Troll with over 250 photos on A.net. You guys can just say whatever you want, but definitely the Boeing company wants to blame it on others, so would Donald Trump.


Ah. That's where this was heading.
I just dunno for what reason.
Anybody with half brain would understand that if that was the SECOND missile, then the person saw/heard the first one. Pretty good reason to start recording and focusing on something that was visible (hence the plane tracking on that vid).
I'm not gonna even go into how our eyes see things and how a tiny sensor camera does. As a photographer as you say you should be pretty aware of that.
But since this is about Boeing and Trump then well I can't help you with logic.


Doesn't even have to be the 2nd missile ...

If this whole thing started with a technical issue (compressor stall, birdstrike, etc), that alone could have made enough noise to attract the filmographer's attention.

All you need is a "BANG!" sound in the sky, and you go "what was that?" and pull out the phone.
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:05 pm

dara88 wrote:
southsidesilver wrote:
dara88 wrote:

I meant that the missile, during its travel, is not making ANY sound. And why wouldn't the person follow the missile? If you were filming, wouldn't you follow the missile instead of the plane?


You know not all missiles make sounds when in flight, I think your imagining something more like a Rocket. Very different.


They are claiming it was a Tor Missile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Y5DT4oPpc
Doesn't it make any sound?


Quick glance every vid is showing the rockets "from the back".
Depending on the wind and position you will not hear a thing until it either passed or gets very close.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10714
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:05 pm

sgrow787 wrote:
litz wrote:
sgrow787 wrote:


This would be advantageous if you were concerned about enemy forces geolocating a stationary radar source to take out.


No kidding ... with only a few seconds of radar pulse, following by a launch, you can boogie on out to another physical location in next to no time, making any kind of reprisal difficult at best.


Out of curiosity, does the US have a comparable version of the TOR-M1?

Of course.
 
sgrow787
Posts: 450
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 8:12 pm

Re: Reports of Ukrainian 737 Crash in Tehran,Iran

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:07 pm

Polot wrote:
sgrow787 wrote:
litz wrote:

No kidding ... with only a few seconds of radar pulse, following by a launch, you can boogie on out to another physical location in next to no time, making any kind of reprisal difficult at best.


Out of curiosity, does the US have a comparable version of the TOR-M1?

Of course.


Link?
Just one sensor,
Oh just one se-en-sor,
Just one sensor,
Ooh ooh oo-ooh
Oo-oo-ooh.

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