I find it difficult to believe an air defense crew would be unable to differentiate between an aircraft that obviously just took off from IKA and an aircraft that most likely would be flying faster, at a higher altitude,
Look no further than MH17.
The operators of the BUK that shot down MH17 were a bunch of lowly rebels who IIRC had no training on the equipment whatsoever (it was just mysteriously "given" to them by Russia). Hence for them shooting down a civilian target was probably inevitable given that the airspace was only closed below FL330. One would think that the Iranians would have their best and brightest AA team on the unit which was "protecting" their capital.
I wonder if there was another target that was legitimate in the area at the time. KAL007 was shot down on a night when there were two US Boeing RC-135s (iirc) in the area at a time and MH17 was shot down when the Ukrainian rebels were trying to shoot down a Ukrainian transport plane. Given the tensions in the area at the time, I would be very surprised if the USAF didn't have a Global Hawk sitting up at FL500/600 above Tehran watching what's going on. Maybe the AA operators tried to shoot that down but locked onto the 737 mistakenly instead. The fact that the Pentagon is confirming they have sigint of the Iranian AA radars starting up makes it certain that they had some kind of asset in the area.
Still, one would think that a professional AA crew would be able to properly differentiate an aircraft af FL500 vs one at ~4000 AGL.
People are putting too much stock in "American/Canadian/whomever security sources"
What's a security source anyway? May well have been some retired person willing to try to get a buck for his comments and not someone with any actual insight into anything
Indeed. Got to be careful with who's statement you trust. Trusting a statement from the Pentagon without evidence is little better than accepting the Iranian Government's "technical fault" reasoning.
IMO, "pathetic" would be lying about the cause. Thankfully America never stooped to such childish antics.
So why didn't they apologize then? It's the decent thing to do when you screw up this badly.
You're twisting the facts here. We never formally apologized for it, but we most certainly took responsibility for what had happened and there was never any question that the Vincennes was responsible. We also paid reparations to the Iranian government in the amount of $131M for the incident. If that isn't an admission of guilt, I don't know what is.
Out of court settlements without admission of guilt are unfortunately common these days. Why is saying sorry so hard? One could say the same for the Russians who irresponsibly provided advanced AA equipment to incompetent Ukranian rebels who subsequently used it to shoot down MH17.
The US also released the detailed bridge video from the Vincennes with audio so you could see moment by moment how they f-ed up.
Got a link by any chance?
Interesting. Dozens of our experts here said that wouldn't be happening and that the Iranian Government wouldn't be cooperating.
I was thinking about a MANPAD.
There are a number of countries in the region with a grudge against Iran.
How far would some of them go to trigger a conflict leading to regime change?.
I find this an interesting prospect also. Alot of similar weapons were given to "friendly" rebels in Syria in the past few years by the US, Saudi Arabia etc. Could one of those have made it to Iran? Not so long ago the US undesignated the MEK as a terrorist organisation. Could they have been armed with such equipment with the intention of weakening the Iranian government/military?
One photo has presumably wedding photos on the ground. The woman in the photos is blurred out but not the man. Is that protecting a victim or is that a local cultural thing to do when taking pictures of pictures?
Cultural, she wasn't appropriately dressed I believe.
If true, Iran is doing the best thing they can do by inviting Boeing. Shows they're above the politics and the better country, in a small way.
But they really need to admit the shoot down if it is the case. They aren't gonna get away with it forever, if they did indeed shoot it down. Maybe the air defense soldiers weren't forthcoming right away but Iran would know by now if they shot it down. Show "the great Satan" how a country should own an accidental shootdown! Don't ineffectively try and hide the inevitable truth...
Indeed. In my opinion the biggest suggestion that the Iranian government didn't know that the plane had been shot down is the fact that they left the crash site open for a very long time allowing everybody to photograph the wreckage and upload it. If they'd known they'd shot it down and were going to cover it up the crash site would nearly immediately be swarming with police/military personnel making sure that nobody could photograph incriminating wreckage.
If a missile hits a plane with a full tank, don't you think that the plane would explode immediately? Or become a fireball? In that video no such thing is visible. Also, why should anyone record a video of the dark black sky without any purpose? In my opinion, it's definitely fake.
I don't think it's a fake, though I'm sure such footage could be faked by a government with enough resources....your point about why someone was recording a plane taking off in the dark several kilometres away is very valid though and does lend credence to the idea that somebody knew in advance it was going to happen.
-- except that, why does Iran have an active missile launcher near the international airport?
I would think that the mobile launch systems would have multiple different locations that they setup at and that they move around regularly so as to confuse American/Israeli/Saudi reconnaissance satellites. If one of those countries was to attack Iran, then any air defences would be a primary target.
Tehran is quite a distance from all the confrontations and disputes happening in the gulf, I wouldn't think they'd feel the need for such weapons so far away.
Given the escalating tensions I would say that it's prudent for them to defend their capital like that. The US President threatened to destroy 52 Iranian cultural sites only a couple of days before and many of those would have been in Tehran....