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par13del
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:58 pm

zeke wrote:
2175301 wrote:
A lot here is far from clear... except that the control tower knew there was a report of a missile and air explosion coincident with the time and approximate location of the Flight 752 crash.


I don’t agree with the translation provided, and it is clear to me that the audio file has been altered as the ATIS information which is being received in the background is disjointed.

Is the thought that those who leaked are the ones who altered or the recording they were provided was already altered? I guess without more details it is impossible to know.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:03 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
2175301 wrote:

Given that both of these links and the have previously been published in this tread with the July 4 date stated for the admission by the USA... It surprises me that you missed them... I'm not sure where you got the concept of July 6 from.

Have a great day,

Furthermore, the US wasn't BSing and trying to cover it up and lying after the shootdown.

Not to say the US is the champion of morality (this was in the wake of the tragedy of shooting down a civilian aircraft) but it was definitely handled a lot better than Iran, at least in the first few days

Considering how Iran has handled the fall out of this I really am not interested in defending Iran at all. Allegedly targeting the victims family's, and the person who filmed the shoot down, is absolutely disgusting. Iran had the opportunity to turn this into a propaganda spectacle by either immediately acknowledging it, apologizing, and imprisoning those responsible, or giving a reasonable explanation for delaying acknowledgement. (Concern that the US would use it as justification for starting a war) Yes, the US has a history of openly not valuing the lives of non White civilians throughout its entire history, but at this point it feels like they dug a hole for themselves, kept digging some more, and then started randomly shooting people outside the hole.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:05 am

What frequency was that audio from? The lack of radio phraseology on frequency was terrifying. No callsign before transmissions, radio static sounded like it was on an HF radio. Is Farsi an approved ICAO language?
 
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zeke
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:46 am

2175301 wrote:
That is not proof that Ukraine is the country that leaked it.


Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelenskiy was part of the TV interview when it was leaked, that was like the first line of the Reuters report.

"A leaked audio recording of an Iranian pilot talking to the control tower in Tehran shows that Iran knew immediately it had shot down a Ukrainian airliner last month, despite denying it for days, Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said."

"The leaked audio “proves that the Iranian side knew from the start that our plane had been hit by a missile,” Zelenskiy said in a television interview."

from https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran ... SKBN1ZX0XM

2175301 wrote:
Given that both of these links and the have previously been published in this tread with the July 4 date stated for the admission by the USA... It surprises me that you missed them... I'm not sure where you got the concept of July 6 from.


"Note: Identical letters were sent to Jim Wright, Speaker of the House of Representatives, and John C. Stennis, President pro tempore of the Senate. The letter was released by the Office of the Press Secretary on July 5."

That is from the Reagan Presidential Library. https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/research/speeches/070488a

That was reported in the Papers on July 6.

Also since 30 years has passed, secret UK documents are now unsealed, the included telexes from the US tothe UK in which the US said they had initially stated theyhad shot down an F14, they know it was a civil airliner, however have not made that public. There were numerous lies made at the time including the aircraft hade a mode 2 transponder, that the ship was engaged with surface targets at the time (they had stopped 12 minutes prior), and that the airliner turned towards the ship, later it was established the airlines was on a standard airway. The US also stated they tried to communicate with the airliner numerous times, however it did not have a radio on board that could transmit or receive the normal civil VHF frequencies. Only after the incident were those radios installed in US warship. They tried to contact the aircraft on UHF radios (which is what military aircraft use), the only UHF receivers on board a civil would be like the DME, and I have never seen anyone try and listen for a voice modulation on that.

"This “info flash” telex headlined “incident in the Gulf” says “the Pentagon have admitted to us that the US have mistakenly shot down in the Straits of Hormuz a civilian airliner. This has not yet been confirmed publicly.”

As well as giving the British the story before it became public, the US also shared its attempts to manage the story in the press. The telex says: “The administration have not yet confirmed publicly and to the press that the aircraft was a civilian airliner, nor that it was the US that had shot it down, but earlier Pentagon statements that the US had shot down an Iranian F-14 are now being back-pedalled.”"

from https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article ... s-airliner

Like I said before there is no moral high ground here for either the US or Iran.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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Revelation
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:45 am

Re: leaked audio: is this the link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8wCmNBr7ng
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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Rossiya747
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:22 am

ATC repeatedly tried to contact PS752 by saying Ukraine International Airlines 752, Radar!

Gives me chills

I know the Iranian government will try to cover it up like China and the coronavirus.
223 319 320 321 332 333 346 388 734 737 738 739 38M 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 77W 788 789 208 CRJ2 E145 E190 UA DL AA WN AC CM 4O AV 2K FI DY D8 SK LH EI FR U2 IB OS LX BA VS BT PS MS SA SW QR EY HY AI 9W TG SQ MH AK D7 QZ BR NH CA QF MI LV/IB VY AL
 
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zeke
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:01 am

Revelation wrote:
Re: leaked audio: is this the link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8wCmNBr7ng


Something very similar to that link was leaked, it is however not the raw audio, it has been edited. The source is the CVR from an Iranian Airliner, the CVR records multiple audio inputs continuously which includes the radio transmissions, and a hot mic in the cockpit. You can hear the ATIS is not continuous in the recording, there wold be other transmissions including the departure transmissions from PS752 to ATC which are missing.

When CVR transcripts are made, you will see them break it down by CM1, CM2, Hot Mic, Radio etc.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
WIederling
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:31 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Furthermore, the US wasn't BSing and trying to cover it up and lying after the shootdown.


you sure?

They said they were attacked by an airliner and later presented further fibs to try have it look
as if the shoot down was a legit self defense act.
Reality: US ship ( not a war party ) in Iranian waters shooting at civil airliners just for fun
or because they wet their pants following the movie script to The Bedford Incident.

They never accepted responsibility for an act of pure irresponsibility.
They even put a medal on the ships commander.

On moral points I'd put Iran quite a number of steps above the US.
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:38 am

Rossiya747 wrote:
I know the Iranian government will try to cover it up like China and the coronavirus.


Anything to prove your points for any of your allegations?
or is just because FOX News or similar outlets said so?

Currently I would not be surprised if information comes up that
some communication was "E-linted, spoofed" by an interested
party known to have a thing for that kind of "interaction".
Murphy is an optimist
 
Rossiya747
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:35 pm

WIederling wrote:
Rossiya747 wrote:
I know the Iranian government will try to cover it up like China and the coronavirus.


Anything to prove your points for any of your allegations?
or is just because FOX News or similar outlets said so?

Currently I would not be surprised if information comes up that
some communication was "E-linted, spoofed" by an interested
party known to have a thing for that kind of "interaction".


Iran is not sharing info with Ukraine
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran ... SKBN1ZX0XM

China lied about the extent of the coronavirus
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/03/wu ... i-jinping/
223 319 320 321 332 333 346 388 734 737 738 739 38M 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 77W 788 789 208 CRJ2 E145 E190 UA DL AA WN AC CM 4O AV 2K FI DY D8 SK LH EI FR U2 IB OS LX BA VS BT PS MS SA SW QR EY HY AI 9W TG SQ MH AK D7 QZ BR NH CA QF MI LV/IB VY AL
 
WIederling
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:17 am

Rossiya747 wrote:
China lied about the extent of the coronavirus
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/03/wu ... i-jinping/


This is an allegation from in a NYT article that was propagated/distributed with some expedience.
It has all the typical attributes of a synthetic smear campaign "fake news".

Nothing that would come close to fit these allegations from the WHO.

I'll look into your other link when I find the time.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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PixelFlight
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:17 pm

:stirthepot: 737-8 MAX: "For all speeds higher than 220 Kts and trim set at a value of 2.5 units, the difficulity level of turning the manual trim wheel was level A (trim wheel not movable)." :stirthepot:
 
 
bob75013
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:11 pm

Sweden has announced that Iran has agreed to compensate the survivors of the victims of the crash.

It is hard to believe that Iran is more honorable than Russia, which did the same thing and has refused to accept responsibility.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/iran ... s-n1232791
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:21 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mi ... story.html

Blaming a 107-degree misalignment and lack of response from higher command for the shoot down reason.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
tu204
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:49 pm

That answers many questions.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

It is hard to believe that Iran is more honorable than Russia, which did the same thing and has refused to accept responsibility.


It isn't a question of being honorable. Russia is so large, wealthy and powerful that it can literally afford to thumb its nose at the world. Iran cannot. Iran is hurting from sanctions, is being economically hammered by the fall in oil prices (not that its oil fields were operating efficiently before Covid-19), and needs foreign aid and foreign hard currency. Or, to put it more precisely, Iran can't economically afford to not accept responsibility at some point to avoid more foreign aid from being shut off. It isn't honor, its simply the reality of the situation.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:24 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
It is hard to believe that Iran is more honorable than Russia, which did the same thing and has refused to accept responsibility.


It isn't a question of being honorable. Russia is so large, wealthy and powerful that it can literally afford to thumb its nose at the world. Iran cannot. Iran is hurting from sanctions, is being economically hammered by the fall in oil prices (not that its oil fields were operating efficiently before Covid-19), and needs foreign aid and foreign hard currency. Or, to put it more precisely, Iran can't economically afford to not accept responsibility at some point to avoid more foreign aid from being shut off. It isn't honor, its simply the reality of the situation.

All true, but Iran had the problem of the dog walker video showing up so soon after the event itself that they could not build up any kind of cover story.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:38 pm

Some of us may think that most countries would be better of if we defunded major sectors of defense budgets.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
11C
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:20 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
2175301 wrote:

Given that both of these links and the have previously been published in this tread with the July 4 date stated for the admission by the USA... It surprises me that you missed them... I'm not sure where you got the concept of July 6 from.

Have a great day,

Furthermore, the US wasn't BSing and trying to cover it up and lying after the shootdown.

Not to say the US is the champion of morality (this was in the wake of the tragedy of shooting down a civilian aircraft) but it was definitely handled a lot better than Iran, at least in the first few days


I think the actions of the Iranian government speak for themselves, as did the actions of our government following the shoot down of Iran Air 655. Our government did lie, BS, equivocate, etc. We have a rich history of the same behavior, just ask any native American.
 
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PixelFlight
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:24 pm

For the record, The Aviation Herald have analysed the FDR/CVR readout report in English and Persian:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4d1aea51/0000&opt=0
https://www.cao.ir/web/accidents/report ... N3PT0=.pdf
In short: the readout was easy for both recorders. The FDR immediately stopped at the first missile explosion. The CVR survived 19 second but die before the second missile reach the aircraft. Amazingly, the crew health seem unaffected by the first missile explosion and tried to control the situation, starting by using the APU.

The thread induced by the regretted attack on the aircraft probably started by an uncontrollable fire affecting at least his electrical system.
:stirthepot: 737-8 MAX: "For all speeds higher than 220 Kts and trim set at a value of 2.5 units, the difficulity level of turning the manual trim wheel was level A (trim wheel not movable)." :stirthepot:
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:41 pm

11C wrote:
Our government did lie, BS, equivocate, etc. We have a rich history of the same behavior, just ask any native American.


Blame also the all those who believed those lies, then as is now, and not hold the governments accountable.

Those who live in an authoritarian state have an excuse. Those who live in a free society do not.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:40 pm

Our government did lie, BS, equivocate, etc. We have a rich history of the same behavior, just ask any native American.


The difference was that that was in the past. Today, that sort of behavior would be almost unthinkable in the US, and with the internet and instant communications even the prevarication that occurred after the Iran Air shootdown wouldn't happen - it couldn't. Too much information would be too readily available by too many. Iran didn't realize this, or didn't care and their intransigence made things all the worse.

Furthermore, the US wasn't BSing and trying to cover it up and lying after the shootdown.

Not to say the US is the champion of morality (this was in the wake of the tragedy of shooting down a civilian aircraft) but it was definitely handled a lot better than Iran, at least in the first few days


Exactly. The US didn't deny shooting down the Airbus. The US did mess around and did a LOT of finger pointing and deflection, but never flat out denied it.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:13 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
Today, that sort of behavior would be almost unthinkable in the US, and with the internet and instant communications even the prevarication that occurred after the Iran Air shootdown wouldn't happen - it couldn't.


LOL - you may be correct for a majority of the people. But a large minority of the people will still believe these lies if it corroborate their preconceptions or comes from people of power.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:41 pm

True, but as you said, its the majority that really matters. There will always be conspiracy theorists and the like, but given the amazing amount of information freely available these days, things like the Iranian 737 shootdown are best confronted and admitted quickly and forthrightly. Not doing so only digs a deeper and deeper hole.
 
11C
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:33 am

bikerthai wrote:
11C wrote:
Our government did lie, BS, equivocate, etc. We have a rich history of the same behavior, just ask any native American.


Blame also the all those who believed those lies, then as is now, and not hold the governments accountable.

Those who live in an authoritarian state have an excuse. Those who live in a free society do not.

bt

Deep..so what are saying? You blame the believer, I’ll blame the liar. I dislike liars and thieves.
 
2175301
Posts: 1895
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:25 am

11C wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
11C wrote:
Our government did lie, BS, equivocate, etc. We have a rich history of the same behavior, just ask any native American.


Blame also the all those who believed those lies, then as is now, and not hold the governments accountable.

Those who live in an authoritarian state have an excuse. Those who live in a free society do not.

bt

Deep..so what are saying? You blame the believer, I’ll blame the liar. I dislike liars and thieves.


To me its quite simple: The USA quickly admitted that they had accidentally shot down Iran Air 655, and started an investigation into how it happened. Now you can justly argue over how well the investigation was done. I've read everything there likely is to read on it in the past - and personally believe that mistakes were made on both sides. But, no one was left wondering what cased IA-655 to crash.

Iran had the same chance; and chose to hide it and present false information for days.

I actually believe that the changed title of this thread is wrong. In my opinion it should be: "Iran forced to admit that it accidentally shot down Ukraine Flight 752"

Then they delayed getting the FDR and CVR read for many many months... until essentially forced to do that as well.

Have a great day,
 
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klm617
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:25 pm

bikerthai wrote:
11C wrote:
Our government did lie, BS, equivocate, etc. We have a rich history of the same behavior, just ask any native American.


Blame also the all those who believed those lies, then as is now, and not hold the governments accountable.

Those who live in an authoritarian state have an excuse. Those who live in a free society do not.

bt


Those who live in an authoritarian state have more of an obligation to expose the truth rather than just being apathetic to what ever they are being told. We as humans should always want to know and expose the truth even when it doesn't align with what we have been conditioned to believe so no they have no excuse they are part of the problem for burring their heads in the sand.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:42 pm

klm617 wrote:
Those who live in an authoritarian state have more of an obligation to expose the truth rather than just being apathetic


Until you live is such a society, do not presume it is so easy to question an authorization state. You'll might ended up getting radiation poisoning. Even in a democracy, it take some courage to protest one's government. Not talking about protesters who brandish guns. That takes no courage, just stupidity.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.

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