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par13del
Posts: 10261
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:58 pm

zeke wrote:
2175301 wrote:
A lot here is far from clear... except that the control tower knew there was a report of a missile and air explosion coincident with the time and approximate location of the Flight 752 crash.


I don’t agree with the translation provided, and it is clear to me that the audio file has been altered as the ATIS information which is being received in the background is disjointed.

Is the thought that those who leaked are the ones who altered or the recording they were provided was already altered? I guess without more details it is impossible to know.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:03 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
2175301 wrote:

Given that both of these links and the have previously been published in this tread with the July 4 date stated for the admission by the USA... It surprises me that you missed them... I'm not sure where you got the concept of July 6 from.

Have a great day,

Furthermore, the US wasn't BSing and trying to cover it up and lying after the shootdown.

Not to say the US is the champion of morality (this was in the wake of the tragedy of shooting down a civilian aircraft) but it was definitely handled a lot better than Iran, at least in the first few days

Considering how Iran has handled the fall out of this I really am not interested in defending Iran at all. Allegedly targeting the victims family's, and the person who filmed the shoot down, is absolutely disgusting. Iran had the opportunity to turn this into a propaganda spectacle by either immediately acknowledging it, apologizing, and imprisoning those responsible, or giving a reasonable explanation for delaying acknowledgement. (Concern that the US would use it as justification for starting a war) Yes, the US has a history of openly not valuing the lives of non White civilians throughout its entire history, but at this point it feels like they dug a hole for themselves, kept digging some more, and then started randomly shooting people outside the hole.
 
speedbird52
Posts: 1013
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:05 am

What frequency was that audio from? The lack of radio phraseology on frequency was terrifying. No callsign before transmissions, radio static sounded like it was on an HF radio. Is Farsi an approved ICAO language?
 
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zeke
Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:46 am

2175301 wrote:
That is not proof that Ukraine is the country that leaked it.


Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelenskiy was part of the TV interview when it was leaked, that was like the first line of the Reuters report.

"A leaked audio recording of an Iranian pilot talking to the control tower in Tehran shows that Iran knew immediately it had shot down a Ukrainian airliner last month, despite denying it for days, Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said."

"The leaked audio “proves that the Iranian side knew from the start that our plane had been hit by a missile,” Zelenskiy said in a television interview."

from https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran ... SKBN1ZX0XM

2175301 wrote:
Given that both of these links and the have previously been published in this tread with the July 4 date stated for the admission by the USA... It surprises me that you missed them... I'm not sure where you got the concept of July 6 from.


"Note: Identical letters were sent to Jim Wright, Speaker of the House of Representatives, and John C. Stennis, President pro tempore of the Senate. The letter was released by the Office of the Press Secretary on July 5."

That is from the Reagan Presidential Library. https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/research/speeches/070488a

That was reported in the Papers on July 6.

Also since 30 years has passed, secret UK documents are now unsealed, the included telexes from the US tothe UK in which the US said they had initially stated theyhad shot down an F14, they know it was a civil airliner, however have not made that public. There were numerous lies made at the time including the aircraft hade a mode 2 transponder, that the ship was engaged with surface targets at the time (they had stopped 12 minutes prior), and that the airliner turned towards the ship, later it was established the airlines was on a standard airway. The US also stated they tried to communicate with the airliner numerous times, however it did not have a radio on board that could transmit or receive the normal civil VHF frequencies. Only after the incident were those radios installed in US warship. They tried to contact the aircraft on UHF radios (which is what military aircraft use), the only UHF receivers on board a civil would be like the DME, and I have never seen anyone try and listen for a voice modulation on that.

"This “info flash” telex headlined “incident in the Gulf” says “the Pentagon have admitted to us that the US have mistakenly shot down in the Straits of Hormuz a civilian airliner. This has not yet been confirmed publicly.”

As well as giving the British the story before it became public, the US also shared its attempts to manage the story in the press. The telex says: “The administration have not yet confirmed publicly and to the press that the aircraft was a civilian airliner, nor that it was the US that had shot it down, but earlier Pentagon statements that the US had shot down an Iranian F-14 are now being back-pedalled.”"

from https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article ... s-airliner

Like I said before there is no moral high ground here for either the US or Iran.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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Revelation
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:45 am

Re: leaked audio: is this the link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8wCmNBr7ng
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Rossiya747
Posts: 311
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:22 am

ATC repeatedly tried to contact PS752 by saying Ukraine International Airlines 752, Radar!

Gives me chills

I know the Iranian government will try to cover it up like China and the coronavirus.
223 319 320 321 332 333 346 388 734 737 738 739 38M 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 77W 788 789 208 CRJ2 E145 E190 UA DL AA WN AC CM 4O AV 2K FI DY D8 SK LH EI FR U2 IB OS LX BA VS BT PS MS SA SW QR EY HY AI 9W TG SQ MH AK D7 QZ BR NH CA QF MI LV/IB VY AL
 
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zeke
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:01 am

Revelation wrote:
Re: leaked audio: is this the link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8wCmNBr7ng


Something very similar to that link was leaked, it is however not the raw audio, it has been edited. The source is the CVR from an Iranian Airliner, the CVR records multiple audio inputs continuously which includes the radio transmissions, and a hot mic in the cockpit. You can hear the ATIS is not continuous in the recording, there wold be other transmissions including the departure transmissions from PS752 to ATC which are missing.

When CVR transcripts are made, you will see them break it down by CM1, CM2, Hot Mic, Radio etc.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
WIederling
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:31 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Furthermore, the US wasn't BSing and trying to cover it up and lying after the shootdown.


you sure?

They said they were attacked by an airliner and later presented further fibs to try have it look
as if the shoot down was a legit self defense act.
Reality: US ship ( not a war party ) in Iranian waters shooting at civil airliners just for fun
or because they wet their pants following the movie script to The Bedford Incident.

They never accepted responsibility for an act of pure irresponsibility.
They even put a medal on the ships commander.

On moral points I'd put Iran quite a number of steps above the US.
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:38 am

Rossiya747 wrote:
I know the Iranian government will try to cover it up like China and the coronavirus.


Anything to prove your points for any of your allegations?
or is just because FOX News or similar outlets said so?

Currently I would not be surprised if information comes up that
some communication was "E-linted, spoofed" by an interested
party known to have a thing for that kind of "interaction".
Murphy is an optimist
 
Rossiya747
Posts: 311
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:35 pm

WIederling wrote:
Rossiya747 wrote:
I know the Iranian government will try to cover it up like China and the coronavirus.


Anything to prove your points for any of your allegations?
or is just because FOX News or similar outlets said so?

Currently I would not be surprised if information comes up that
some communication was "E-linted, spoofed" by an interested
party known to have a thing for that kind of "interaction".


Iran is not sharing info with Ukraine
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran ... SKBN1ZX0XM

China lied about the extent of the coronavirus
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/03/wu ... i-jinping/
223 319 320 321 332 333 346 388 734 737 738 739 38M 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 77W 788 789 208 CRJ2 E145 E190 UA DL AA WN AC CM 4O AV 2K FI DY D8 SK LH EI FR U2 IB OS LX BA VS BT PS MS SA SW QR EY HY AI 9W TG SQ MH AK D7 QZ BR NH CA QF MI LV/IB VY AL
 
WIederling
Posts: 9291
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:17 am

Rossiya747 wrote:
China lied about the extent of the coronavirus
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/03/wu ... i-jinping/


This is an allegation from in a NYT article that was propagated/distributed with some expedience.
It has all the typical attributes of a synthetic smear campaign "fake news".

Nothing that would come close to fit these allegations from the WHO.

I'll look into your other link when I find the time.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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PixelFlight
Posts: 1018
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:17 pm

:stirthepot: 737-8 MAX: "For all speeds higher than 220 Kts and trim set at a value of 2.5 units, the difficulity level of turning the manual trim wheel was level A (trim wheel not movable)." :stirthepot:
 
 
bob75013
Posts: 953
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:11 pm

Sweden has announced that Iran has agreed to compensate the survivors of the victims of the crash.

It is hard to believe that Iran is more honorable than Russia, which did the same thing and has refused to accept responsibility.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/iran ... s-n1232791
 
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SuseJ772
Posts: 982
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:21 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mi ... story.html

Blaming a 107-degree misalignment and lack of response from higher command for the shoot down reason.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
tu204
Posts: 2168
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:49 pm

That answers many questions.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 898
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Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

It is hard to believe that Iran is more honorable than Russia, which did the same thing and has refused to accept responsibility.


It isn't a question of being honorable. Russia is so large, wealthy and powerful that it can literally afford to thumb its nose at the world. Iran cannot. Iran is hurting from sanctions, is being economically hammered by the fall in oil prices (not that its oil fields were operating efficiently before Covid-19), and needs foreign aid and foreign hard currency. Or, to put it more precisely, Iran can't economically afford to not accept responsibility at some point to avoid more foreign aid from being shut off. It isn't honor, its simply the reality of the situation.
 
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Revelation
Posts: 23905
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:24 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
It is hard to believe that Iran is more honorable than Russia, which did the same thing and has refused to accept responsibility.


It isn't a question of being honorable. Russia is so large, wealthy and powerful that it can literally afford to thumb its nose at the world. Iran cannot. Iran is hurting from sanctions, is being economically hammered by the fall in oil prices (not that its oil fields were operating efficiently before Covid-19), and needs foreign aid and foreign hard currency. Or, to put it more precisely, Iran can't economically afford to not accept responsibility at some point to avoid more foreign aid from being shut off. It isn't honor, its simply the reality of the situation.

All true, but Iran had the problem of the dog walker video showing up so soon after the event itself that they could not build up any kind of cover story.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4090
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:38 pm

Some of us may think that most countries would be better of if we defunded major sectors of defense budgets.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
11C
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: Iran admits to accidentally shooting down Ukraine Flight 752

Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:20 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
2175301 wrote:

Given that both of these links and the have previously been published in this tread with the July 4 date stated for the admission by the USA... It surprises me that you missed them... I'm not sure where you got the concept of July 6 from.

Have a great day,

Furthermore, the US wasn't BSing and trying to cover it up and lying after the shootdown.

Not to say the US is the champion of morality (this was in the wake of the tragedy of shooting down a civilian aircraft) but it was definitely handled a lot better than Iran, at least in the first few days


I think the actions of the Iranian government speak for themselves, as did the actions of our government following the shoot down of Iran Air 655. Our government did lie, BS, equivocate, etc. We have a rich history of the same behavior, just ask any native American.

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