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ydahman
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Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:22 pm

Last year there have been numerous large International Airlines that started flying to Washington Dulles for the first time. This includes Alitalia, TAP, Egypt Air, Air India, and Cathy. Also, in 2020, Washington Dulles will be a new destination for the following 3 European Airline. Swiss, Iberia, and LOT. Any idea why IAD Dulles Airport suddenly became a new destination for all these airlines? Is there now high demand or large traffic that the need for these carriers to fly to Washington Dulles? Is United not able to fill in the high demand to fly passengers on these routes?
 
jplatts
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:36 pm

AZ, TP, MS, AI, IB, and LO all are serving hubs located in capital cities nonstop from IAD.

Even though Bern is the capital city of Switzerland, LX serves ZRH nonstop from IAD due to LX's main hub being located at ZRH.

TP, MS, AI, LO, and LX are all also in Star Alliance along with UA, and all 5 of these carriers can connect passengers onto UA flights to other U.S. destinations at IAD (and vice versa).

IB also has AA's FF base in the DC market (due to AA's DCA hub) to support IAD-MAD nonstop service.
 
747megatop
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:44 pm

ydahman wrote:
Last year there have been numerous large International Airlines that started flying to Washington Dulles for the first time. This includes Alitalia, TAP, Egypt Air, Air India, and Cathy. Also, in 2020, Washington Dulles will be a new destination for the following 3 European Airline. Swiss, Iberia, and LOT. Any idea why IAD Dulles Airport suddenly became a new destination for all these airlines? Is there now high demand or large traffic that the need for these carriers to fly to Washington Dulles? Is United not able to fill in the high demand to fly passengers on these routes?

What's surprising? After all DC is the capital city. In fact it is surprising that these airlines did not come in earlier.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:46 pm

ydahman wrote:
Last year there have been numerous large International Airlines that started flying to Washington Dulles for the first time. This includes Alitalia, TAP, Egypt Air, Air India, and Cathy. Also, in 2020, Washington Dulles will be a new destination for the following 3 European Airline. Swiss, Iberia, and LOT. Any idea why IAD Dulles Airport suddenly became a new destination for all these airlines? Is there now high demand or large traffic that the need for these carriers to fly to Washington Dulles? Is United not able to fill in the high demand to fly passengers on these routes?


Yes, the DC-area and IAD certainly have been on a roll! Glad to see it.

To clarify: AZ is not new, they've returned after a years-long hiatus. They previously served IAD from MXP which I believe ended back in 2012? Also if memory serves, they also flew to IAD back in the 70's for some amount of time...I think it was a tag from JFK? Swiss is also a return...Swissair served IAD back in the 90's, it was a tag from BOS (I can't remember if it eventually became a nonstop or not). And IIRC Iberia is also a return after a really LONG hiatus but I could be wrong on that one.

Also, you forgot Royal Air Maroc.

And this isn't sudden. Foreign-flag carriers have been coming to IAD for many years now, gradually. It's largely due to the affluence of the area, particularly the Northern VA suburbs (Fairfax & Loudon counties in particular) and the DC-area's constantly expanding business/economic environment.

All that being said, a couple of these new entrants have surprised me. EgyptAir for one, and Royal Air Maroc. I'm half expecting UA to dump LIS using their own metal and just code-share on the new TP service.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:02 pm

Splitting WAS traffic across three near-equal size airports doesn't help destination or carrier count but IAD is clearly the major international airport. It's no JFK, however: at the end of 2018 airport data showed 32 international (including Canadian) carriers at IAD; there were 72 at JFK.

https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... report.pdf
 
incitatus
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:07 pm

747megatop wrote:
What's surprising? After all DC is the capital city. In fact it is surprising that these airlines did not come in earlier.


We should not regard capitals necessarily as economic centers of countries. In countries that value free enterprise and small government, capitals should be medium sized cities with low-cost real estate and affordable living. For example, Canberra, Australia. Washington D.C. and its suburbs have a variety of thriving businesses. But the current trajectory of growth for Washington can be traced back to a boost in Federal government spending in the area that started after 2001.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
terefere
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:12 pm

jplatts wrote:
TP, MS, AI, LO, and LX are all also in Star Alliance along with UA, and all 5 of these carriers can connect passengers onto UA flights to other U.S. destinations at IAD (and vice versa).


Given the JV in place, I would actually risk saying that airlines such as LO are starting more US destinations exactly because they CANNOT connect passengers onto UA flights and the only way to serve those markets is to do it by themselves.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:14 pm

For me is no surprise as Washington DC and surroundings are the among the most amazing regions I've visited in US.
Plenty of history and indoor/outdoor activities without the crowds of NY, LA, Vegas, Chicago, etc
I'd skip any other place in US (Except San Francisco, sorry) to visit DC again. Just loved it!
Hope these new flights don't make DC crowded and (more) overpriced...
 
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:25 pm

ojjunior wrote:
For me is no surprise as Washington DC and surroundings are the among the most amazing regions I've visited in US.
Plenty of history and indoor/outdoor activities without the crowds of NY, LA, Vegas, Chicago, etc
I'd skip any other place in US (Except San Francisco, sorry) to visit DC again. Just loved it!
Hope these new flights don't make DC crowded and (more) overpriced...


I'd like to know where you went in the DC region that wasn't crowded. It's getting built up more and more every year.
 
jplatts
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:29 pm

terefere wrote:
Given the JV in place, I would actually risk saying that airlines such as LO are starting more US destinations exactly because they CANNOT connect passengers onto UA flights and the only way to serve those markets is to do it by themselves.


LO actually does list UA as a codeshare partner on LOT's corporate website at https://corporate.lot.com/pl/en/partnerships-alliances.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:51 pm

terefere wrote:
jplatts wrote:
TP, MS, AI, LO, and LX are all also in Star Alliance along with UA, and all 5 of these carriers can connect passengers onto UA flights to other U.S. destinations at IAD (and vice versa).


Given the JV in place, I would actually risk saying that airlines such as LO are starting more US destinations exactly because they CANNOT connect passengers onto UA flights and the only way to serve those markets is to do it by themselves.


The connections being discussed here are domestic UA connections. LO can fly passengers from WAW to IAD, then connect on UA to other destinations in the US.

I forget, was UA trying to focus EWR more on O&D traffic and run more connections through IAD instead? If so, then it makes sense that other Star Alliance partners would look into Dulles as well.
 
terefere
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:54 pm

jplatts wrote:
terefere wrote:
Given the JV in place, I would actually risk saying that airlines such as LO are starting more US destinations exactly because they CANNOT connect passengers onto UA flights and the only way to serve those markets is to do it by themselves.


LO actually does list UA as a codeshare partner on LOT's corporate website at https://corporate.lot.com/pl/en/partnerships-alliances.


Yes, there is a codeshare on a handful of flights, like FRA-WAW or a few flights out of ORD, I believe. Nothing serious that LO does not have with non *Alliance airlines. None of the long-haul flights have a codeshare.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:07 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Splitting WAS traffic across three near-equal size airports doesn't help destination or carrier count but IAD is clearly the major international airport. It's no JFK, however: at the end of 2018 airport data showed 32 international (including Canadian) carriers at IAD; there were 72 at JFK.

https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... report.pdf


But unlike other major international airports on or near the eastern seaboard of the US, IAD is not constrained by development encroaching on the airport and preventing expansion. If a foreign airline is going to have just one flight to the US, IAD is a good airport. JFK used to serve that purpose, but it is not such a great connection hub anymore.
 
blockski
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:18 pm

ydahman wrote:
Last year there have been numerous large International Airlines that started flying to Washington Dulles for the first time. This includes Alitalia, TAP, Egypt Air, Air India, and Cathy. Also, in 2020, Washington Dulles will be a new destination for the following 3 European Airline. Swiss, Iberia, and LOT. Any idea why IAD Dulles Airport suddenly became a new destination for all these airlines? Is there now high demand or large traffic that the need for these carriers to fly to Washington Dulles? Is United not able to fill in the high demand to fly passengers on these routes?


IAD has done a nice job of growing international traffic. It's not just attracting foreign flag carriers - United has added some flights as well. Perhaps most notable is the addition of TLV from UA.

This trend isn't new, and not all of the carriers listed above started in 2019. In 2019, IAD added Alitalia (year-round, in addition to UA's seasonal FCO flight), TAP (also year-round, in addition to seasonal UA service), and Egypt Air.

Cathay started service to HKG in 2018; Air India started service to DEL in 2017. Royal Air Maroc started service in 2016.

To the question of United and filling demand - several of these routes are bringing non-Star competition to routes United was already serving, albeit seasonally - FCO, LIS, and MAD fit that description. Others are clearly opportunities at the behest of the foreign carriers (like Cairo); and others are direct flights to destinations United serves but via a different routing (HKG, DEL, WAW - via JV partners).

Based on UA's comments about the A321XLR and the potential for additional European destinations from EWR and IAD, I suspect there are a bunch of other thinner routes that UA would consider if/when they have the right aircraft. The demand is there.
 
IADCA
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:28 pm

ydahman wrote:
Last year there have been numerous large International Airlines that started flying to Washington Dulles for the first time. This includes Alitalia, TAP, Egypt Air, Air India, and Cathy. Also, in 2020, Washington Dulles will be a new destination for the following 3 European Airline. Swiss, Iberia, and LOT. Any idea why IAD Dulles Airport suddenly became a new destination for all these airlines? Is there now high demand or large traffic that the need for these carriers to fly to Washington Dulles? Is United not able to fill in the high demand to fly passengers on these routes?


IAD has been a destination that's on the fringes of being workable for a lot of carriers, but a few factors have pushed it over the line. The most obvious one is that most of these carriers are using new, fuel-efficient fleet types on fairly long routes. For example, the TAP flight uses an A321neo, CX is an A359. Those airlines have had planes that could fly the route before, just not profitably.

Also, the wealth of the DC area (IAD sits on the border of the two counties with the #1 and #3 highest household income levels in the United States) and rapid growth of the DC area, which is now the sixth largest in the US, also pushes in that direction. There's just a lot of money there on O&D, and as others have noted DC has both Star and Oneworld FF bases from the IAD UA hub and the large AA operation ("hub") at DCA. It's not shocking that all the carriers you listed save one are from those two alliances.

We'll see how many of these flights stick around, but a big, wealthy city that is growing rapidly is a recipe to at least get some bites.

blockski wrote:

To the question of United and filling demand - several of these routes are bringing non-Star competition to routes United was already serving, albeit seasonally - FCO, LIS, and MAD fit that description. Others are clearly opportunities at the behest of the foreign carriers (like Cairo); and others are direct flights to destinations United serves but via a different routing (HKG, DEL, WAW - via JV partners).


Minor correction: TP is Star. Indeed, they are offering some decent fares on connections over LIS, and it's nice to get another Star carrier that isn't in the JV as it helps keep UA's fares down (previously, SK had been doing that, but the 1 daily CPH flight isn't enough to do so).
 
capitalflyer
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:46 pm

MWAA has reduced enplanement costs over the past few years with cash influx from VA and new ability to shift funds between DCA and IAD to reduce airline costs at IAD. This no doubt tipped the balance in favor of starting service. And yes, UA is shifting connecting traffic to IAD from EWR, so as connections increase at IAD, I would expect continued international carrier growth.
 
747megatop
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:32 pm

incitatus wrote:
747megatop wrote:
What's surprising? After all DC is the capital city. In fact it is surprising that these airlines did not come in earlier.


We should not regard capitals necessarily as economic centers of countries. In countries that value free enterprise and small government, capitals should be medium sized cities with low-cost real estate and affordable living. For example, Canberra, Australia. Washington D.C. and its suburbs have a variety of thriving businesses. But the current trajectory of growth for Washington can be traced back to a boost in Federal government spending in the area that started after 2001.

I agree, but DC is different in that it is the capital (& political center) of one of the most powerful countries on earth & the nerve center of one of the largest military-industrial complexes on earth. It also is a thriving industrial center. Many multi national companies have offices in DC in some shape or form to maintain relations with the government & lobbyists.
This is what makes it unique and different than Brasilia or Canberra etc...or for that matter Sacramento the state capital of CA (a state who's economy is bigger than most countries) ; which is why i said it should not be surprising that more international airlines want to add non stops to DC. Reason i mentioned CA is to underscore your point (in agreement) that airlines don't add service just because it is a national capital or state capital.
 
NiMar
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:47 pm

cathay747 wrote:
All that being said, a couple of these new entrants have surprised me. EgyptAir for one, and Royal Air Maroc. I'm half expecting UA to dump LIS using their own metal and just code-share on the new TP service.


There is a very large Egyptian population in northern VA, I believe I heard once that it was the largest outside of the country itself but that info was from like 15 years ago.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:55 pm

Look at capital cities in other countries. You have almost the whole world of airlines flying there. It's weird our capital has less airlines than LAX, NYC, or ORD.
 
luckyone
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:05 pm

747megatop wrote:
incitatus wrote:
747megatop wrote:
What's surprising? After all DC is the capital city. In fact it is surprising that these airlines did not come in earlier.


We should not regard capitals necessarily as economic centers of countries. In countries that value free enterprise and small government, capitals should be medium sized cities with low-cost real estate and affordable living. For example, Canberra, Australia. Washington D.C. and its suburbs have a variety of thriving businesses. But the current trajectory of growth for Washington can be traced back to a boost in Federal government spending in the area that started after 2001.

I agree, but DC is different in that it is the capital (& political center) of one of the most powerful countries on earth & the nerve center of one of the largest military-industrial complexes on earth. It also is a thriving industrial center. Many multi national companies have offices in DC in some shape or form to maintain relations with the government & lobbyists.
This is what makes it unique and different than Brasilia or Canberra etc...or for that matter Sacramento the state capital of CA (a state who's economy is bigger than most countries) ; which is why i said it should not be surprising that more international airlines want to add non stops to DC. Reason i mentioned CA is to underscore your point (in agreement) that airlines don't add service just because it is a national capital or state capital.

Interesting you should use Brasilia and Canberra as examples when discussing DC. All three cities were planned, and intentionally placed away from existing major cities for not value of free enterprise and small government, but to ensure the seat of government was in between existing major cities and in theory be more centrally located. It's much the same reason that in the United States, state capitals tend to be located more centrally.

It's been interesting to watch the growth in DC as private industry has grown in the area. I went twice when I was in gradeschool in the late 90's, early aughts. And the area was a seedy dump outside of the national monuments and Smithsonian. I visited last year again, total transformation.
Last edited by luckyone on Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:49 pm

jplatts wrote:
terefere wrote:
Given the JV in place, I would actually risk saying that airlines such as LO are starting more US destinations exactly because they CANNOT connect passengers onto UA flights and the only way to serve those markets is to do it by themselves.


LO actually does list UA as a codeshare partner on LOT's corporate website at https://corporate.lot.com/pl/en/partnerships-alliances.

There's a difference between codesharing within Star Alliance (LO and TP with UA) and being a part of the metal neutral Joint venture (UA/AC/LH/LX/OS/SN) which pool incomes and share the financial risk on all North American-Europe flights.
 
dcaviation
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:02 pm

And don't forget that Icelandair and Aer Lingus abandoned BWI and came to IAD.
 
winter
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:24 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Look at capital cities in other countries. You have almost the whole world of airlines flying there. It's weird our capital has less airlines than LAX, NYC, or ORD.


It’s not weird at all. Washington DC isn’t one of the largest economic or population centers of the country. Wealth, population, commerce and finance drives demand more than politics.

Germany is similar, Berlin is overshadowed by FRA and MUC.
 
blockski
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:04 pm

winter wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
Look at capital cities in other countries. You have almost the whole world of airlines flying there. It's weird our capital has less airlines than LAX, NYC, or ORD.


It’s not weird at all. Washington DC isn’t one of the largest economic or population centers of the country. Wealth, population, commerce and finance drives demand more than politics.

Germany is similar, Berlin is overshadowed by FRA and MUC.


Well, DC isn't the largest, but it's not the smallest, either - the DC area is the 6th largest MSA in the country; the 4th largest CSA in the country (encompassing the three airports serving the region); The DC regional MSA has the 5th largest GDP in the country.
 
winter
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:16 pm

blockski wrote:
winter wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
Look at capital cities in other countries. You have almost the whole world of airlines flying there. It's weird our capital has less airlines than LAX, NYC, or ORD.


It’s not weird at all. Washington DC isn’t one of the largest economic or population centers of the country. Wealth, population, commerce and finance drives demand more than politics.

Germany is similar, Berlin is overshadowed by FRA and MUC.


Well, DC isn't the largest, but it's not the smallest, either - the DC area is the 6th largest MSA in the country; the 4th largest CSA in the country (encompassing the three airports serving the region); The DC regional MSA has the 5th largest GDP in the country.


I didn’t say it was a small market, OP said it was weird WAS wasn’t the largest intl market in the US. But I dont think it can ever hope to eclipse NYC, LAX, MIA or CHI in international traffic for a myriad of reasons.
 
N649DL
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:10 pm

IAD has always been a big deal for International Carriers (considering it's the only Airport in the DC area for Int'l Traffic aside BWI which is 60 miles from IAD.) IAD even had rather consistent service on the Concorde for a while as well.

UA was in retraction mode at IAD for years but finally are relying heavily on the hub for connecting traffic. UA's International Service at IAD hit it's peak during the merger when it flew IAD to KWI/DOH, DME, ACC, etc. All those routes got terminated since then.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:52 am

I wonder how much a factor freight is on flights by these non-US carriers to IAD? I would expect mail, express packages to US government agencies and, regional businesses in the Northern VA region might be a factor in profits or not to operate them.
 
yzfElite
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:02 am

Ziyulu wrote:
Look at capital cities in other countries. You have almost the whole world of airlines flying there. It's weird our capital has less airlines than LAX, NYC, or ORD.


I’m not sure it’s true about other countries necessarily. In Canada YOW is a secondary airport sandwiched between YYZ and YUL who have many times the international options.
 
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SFOA380
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:24 am

Ziyulu wrote:
Look at capital cities in other countries. You have almost the whole world of airlines flying there. It's weird our capital has less airlines than LAX, NYC, or ORD.


Or SFO:)
 
NiMar
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:55 am

Also historically NYC always made for a better stop being the much bigger city and being closer to Europe basically in a straight path on to DC.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:07 am

smokeybandit wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
For me is no surprise as Washington DC and surroundings are the among the most amazing regions I've visited in US.
Plenty of history and indoor/outdoor activities without the crowds of NY, LA, Vegas, Chicago, etc
I'd skip any other place in US (Except San Francisco, sorry) to visit DC again. Just loved it!
Hope these new flights don't make DC crowded and (more) overpriced...


I'd like to know where you went in the DC region that wasn't crowded. It's getting built up more and more every year.


Go about 8 miles west of Dulles and you're in farm land. Yes, still today.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:21 am

ltbewr wrote:
I wonder how much a factor freight is on flights by these non-US carriers to IAD? I would expect mail, express packages to US government agencies and, regional businesses in the Northern VA region might be a factor in profits or not to operate them.


Probably a fair amount of mail traffic and inbound cargo traffic. The DC area is not a major manufacturing hub so probably not an overwhelming amount of outbound freight. Freight volumes (both domestic and international) was about 310,000 net tons in CY 2017 at IAD. By contrast DFW which is a smaller population area had 830,000 net tons in the same year.
 
NiMar
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:14 am

washingtonflyer wrote:

Go about 8 miles west of Dulles and you're in farm land. Yes, still today.

It is more huge estate after huge estate, horse farms and pastures of the landed Gentry.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:32 am

IADCA wrote:
IAD has been a destination that's on the fringes of being workable for a lot of carriers, but a few factors have pushed it over the line. The most obvious one is that most of these carriers are using new, fuel-efficient fleet types on fairly long routes. For example, the TAP flight uses an A321neo, CX is an A359. Those airlines have had planes that could fly the route before, just not profitably.

Also, the wealth of the DC area (IAD sits on the border of the two counties with the #1 and #3 highest household income levels in the United States) and rapid growth of the DC area, which is now the sixth largest in the US, also pushes in that direction. There's just a lot of money there on O&D, and as others have noted DC has both Star and Oneworld FF bases from the IAD UA hub and the large AA operation ("hub") at DCA. It's not shocking that all the carriers you listed save one are from those two alliances.


But the OP asked why "suddenly".

On top of those points, there is certainly some "keeping up with the Joneses" mechanism. When other carriers are launching flights to a destination, it will be easier to convince the board of directors of an airline to start flights there... so not to be left behind. BOS and the boom in Asian carriers a few years ago was a perfect example of this. The 787 helped but all of a sudden every other Asian/ME carrier opening a route to BOS (which no one served until 2011) can only be explained by that new plane.

Also each carrier has its own agenda. For instance Iberia (which with AA JV already served JFK, BOS, CLT, DFW, ORD, PHL, MIA) started flights in the last few years to LAX and SFO. So what is the next logical city in the US? IAD.
 
NiMar
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:11 am

IAD is probably the most northeasterly airport in the US with four runways capable of simultaneous operations operating in a much less congested airspace than NYC and runway constrained Newark. So it makes sense for UA to make EWR an O&D focused airport and to make more reliable IAD the connecting airport (which also has a decent O&D component.) That makes IAD the closest transfer hub to the NE and Europe and for UA's network and for *A makes a lot of sense. The biggest problem is that C/D are semi well maintained trailer park homes compared to the rest of the airport. A new replacement for C/D will make IAD really good.
 
blockski
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:57 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
IADCA wrote:
IAD has been a destination that's on the fringes of being workable for a lot of carriers, but a few factors have pushed it over the line. The most obvious one is that most of these carriers are using new, fuel-efficient fleet types on fairly long routes. For example, the TAP flight uses an A321neo, CX is an A359. Those airlines have had planes that could fly the route before, just not profitably.

Also, the wealth of the DC area (IAD sits on the border of the two counties with the #1 and #3 highest household income levels in the United States) and rapid growth of the DC area, which is now the sixth largest in the US, also pushes in that direction. There's just a lot of money there on O&D, and as others have noted DC has both Star and Oneworld FF bases from the IAD UA hub and the large AA operation ("hub") at DCA. It's not shocking that all the carriers you listed save one are from those two alliances.


But the OP asked why "suddenly".

On top of those points, there is certainly some "keeping up with the Joneses" mechanism. When other carriers are launching flights to a destination, it will be easier to convince the board of directors of an airline to start flights there... so not to be left behind. BOS and the boom in Asian carriers a few years ago was a perfect example of this. The 787 helped but all of a sudden every other Asian/ME carrier opening a route to BOS (which no one served until 2011) can only be explained by that new plane.

Also each carrier has its own agenda. For instance Iberia (which with AA JV already served JFK, BOS, CLT, DFW, ORD, PHL, MIA) started flights in the last few years to LAX and SFO. So what is the next logical city in the US? IAD.


That's certainly part of the answer, but the other part is that the build-up isn't so sudden.

Not all of the listed carriers actually started in 2019; Cathay launched in 2018; Air India in 2017; Royal Air Maroc in 2016... It's not a purely linear growth trajectory, but it's not a sudden surge, either.

Before that: Etihad launched in 2013; Emirates in 2012; Qatar in 2007.
 
LoudounHound
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:17 pm

I suspect some of the perceived rush to add flights is the diminishing availability of international gates during peak times. Most of the recent adds are off peak. It also seems main terminal counter space is disappearing, too.

United's plan to flow more connecting traffic through IAD is certainly helping to influence *A carriers, As mentioned above, the dropping CPE greatly assists as well. Finally, the imminent arrival of mass transit (Metro station hopefully opening this year) may also play a role, as IAD becomes more attractive to locals and visitors via a rail connection (especially for long haul).
 
IADCA
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:24 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
IADCA wrote:
IAD has been a destination that's on the fringes of being workable for a lot of carriers, but a few factors have pushed it over the line. The most obvious one is that most of these carriers are using new, fuel-efficient fleet types on fairly long routes. For example, the TAP flight uses an A321neo, CX is an A359. Those airlines have had planes that could fly the route before, just not profitably.


But the OP asked why "suddenly".


Which isn't really an accurate perception. The buildup in carrier numbers has been pretty steady over a period of years, both in terms of new carriers (for example, AT in 2016, AI in 2017, VR in 2019) and re-starts (EI in 2015) as discussed by another poster replying to you. It's been a pretty steady 1 or 2 per year - FI in 2011, AM, and EK (plus even PD, hardly a large carrier) in 2012, EY in 2013 (as also mentioned). It's not purely international either: AS returned in 2015 after a hiatus.

It's kinda hard to answer a premise ("suddenly") when that premise is mostly incorrect and the factors are mostly longer-term.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:50 pm

Per wikipedia (light?) rail will open sometime this year. Excellent traffic resistant ground transportation is absolutely needed for a first class airport. This must have been a factor in airlines moving there. Is that Silver Line indeed going to open this year?
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msp747
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:17 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Per wikipedia (light?) rail will open sometime this year. Excellent traffic resistant ground transportation is absolutely needed for a first class airport. This must have been a factor in airlines moving there. Is that Silver Line indeed going to open this year?

Short answer: Maybe. Let's just say it's complicated :lol:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tr ... story.html
 
EddieDude
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:56 pm

IADCA wrote:
AM, and EK (plus even PD, hardly a large carrier) in 2012

Sadly, AM could not make MEX-IAD work and it was cancelled. One would imagine MEX-IAD is highly demanded due to enormous governmental/diplomatic traffic and that AM would have a Mexico P.O.S. advantage. UA on the other hand seems to be doing fine... they also have the advantage of selling connections to Canada and Europe.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
747megatop
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:01 pm

luckyone wrote:
747megatop wrote:
incitatus wrote:

We should not regard capitals necessarily as economic centers of countries. In countries that value free enterprise and small government, capitals should be medium sized cities with low-cost real estate and affordable living. For example, Canberra, Australia. Washington D.C. and its suburbs have a variety of thriving businesses. But the current trajectory of growth for Washington can be traced back to a boost in Federal government spending in the area that started after 2001.

I agree, but DC is different in that it is the capital (& political center) of one of the most powerful countries on earth & the nerve center of one of the largest military-industrial complexes on earth. It also is a thriving industrial center. Many multi national companies have offices in DC in some shape or form to maintain relations with the government & lobbyists.
This is what makes it unique and different than Brasilia or Canberra etc...or for that matter Sacramento the state capital of CA (a state who's economy is bigger than most countries) ; which is why i said it should not be surprising that more international airlines want to add non stops to DC. Reason i mentioned CA is to underscore your point (in agreement) that airlines don't add service just because it is a national capital or state capital.

Interesting you should use Brasilia and Canberra as examples when discussing DC. All three cities were planned, and intentionally placed away from existing major cities for not value of free enterprise and small government, but to ensure the seat of government was in between existing major cities and in theory be more centrally located. It's much the same reason that in the United States, state capitals tend to be located more centrally.

It's been interesting to watch the growth in DC as private industry has grown in the area. I went twice when I was in gradeschool in the late 90's, early aughts. And the area was a seedy dump outside of the national monuments and Smithsonian. I visited last year again, total transformation.

I specifically chose Brasilia & Canberra for a reason when discussing DC to show the stark contrast. Brasilia & Canberra are relatively unimportant capitals of relatively unimportant countries (relative to let's say US, China, Germany, Japan, UK for example..or even India for that matter..a "third world" country). I am not saying Brazil & Australia are unimportant countries, don't get me wrong, but in the geopolitical & economic landscape they are lower down the ladder; airlines will not be tripping over themselves to add non stops as compared to geopolitical & economic powerhouses like DC, Beijing, London or for that matter New Delhi; that was the point of my post & concluding that no surprises in DC being a new destination for multiple large airlines.
 
IADCA
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:10 pm

EddieDude wrote:
IADCA wrote:
AM, and EK (plus even PD, hardly a large carrier) in 2012

Sadly, AM could not make MEX-IAD work and it was cancelled. One would imagine MEX-IAD is highly demanded due to enormous governmental/diplomatic traffic and that AM would have a Mexico P.O.S. advantage. UA on the other hand seems to be doing fine... they also have the advantage of selling connections to Canada and Europe.


Yes, but the point was that they started. I'd expect a few of the recent adds to also fall away eventually. UA's connections matter a lot, as does the fact that Skyteam is the weakest of the alliances in the DC area, as does the fact that AM couldn't get a lot of traction for connections IAD-MEX-xxx because UA covers so much of Mexico from IAH and points further south are blanketed by CM and the various AV-group carriers (which may still have been TACA when AM started IAD, I can't recall).
 
DCAfan
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:52 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Per wikipedia (light?) rail will open sometime this year. Excellent traffic resistant ground transportation is absolutely needed for a first class airport. This must have been a factor in airlines moving there. Is that Silver Line indeed going to open this year?


Metro can work if you have a small roller bag or less. Otherwise it is a challenge that doesn't bode well for international carriers with passengers that have a lot of luggage.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:39 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
For me is no surprise as Washington DC and surroundings are the among the most amazing regions I've visited in US.
Plenty of history and indoor/outdoor activities without the crowds of NY, LA, Vegas, Chicago, etc
I'd skip any other place in US (Except San Francisco, sorry) to visit DC again. Just loved it!
Hope these new flights don't make DC crowded and (more) overpriced...


I'd like to know where you went in the DC region that wasn't crowded. It's getting built up more and more every year.


As someone who lives in DC, the only time it is crowded is the metro station just after a baseball or hockey game.
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” ~Harlan Ellison~
 
airboss787
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:44 am

747megatop wrote:
ydahman wrote:
Last year there have been numerous large International Airlines that started flying to Washington Dulles for the first time. This includes Alitalia, TAP, Egypt Air, Air India, and Cathy. Also, in 2020, Washington Dulles will be a new destination for the following 3 European Airline. Swiss, Iberia, and LOT. Any idea why IAD Dulles Airport suddenly became a new destination for all these airlines? Is there now high demand or large traffic that the need for these carriers to fly to Washington Dulles? Is United not able to fill in the high demand to fly passengers on these routes?

What's surprising? After all DC is the capital city. In fact it is surprising that these airlines did not come in earlier.


Exactly. I think that's what the OP is trying to ask. It's not like these airlines suddenly woke up and realised that Washington DC is the capital so what happened this year and last that there is a sudden emergence of airlines which did not show much interest until then.
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washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:28 pm

AEROFAN wrote:
smokeybandit wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
For me is no surprise as Washington DC and surroundings are the among the most amazing regions I've visited in US.
Plenty of history and indoor/outdoor activities without the crowds of NY, LA, Vegas, Chicago, etc
I'd skip any other place in US (Except San Francisco, sorry) to visit DC again. Just loved it!
Hope these new flights don't make DC crowded and (more) overpriced...


I'd like to know where you went in the DC region that wasn't crowded. It's getting built up more and more every year.


As someone who lives in DC, the only time it is crowded is the metro station just after a baseball or hockey game.


Say what? I guess you've not been to Farragut North at 5:15 pm.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:32 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Per wikipedia (light?) rail will open sometime this year. Excellent traffic resistant ground transportation is absolutely needed for a first class airport. This must have been a factor in airlines moving there. Is that Silver Line indeed going to open this year?


There are several issues that MWAA / WMATA are dealing with. Ballast is too small in parts, track geometry beyond posted limits near some of the switches, drainage issues at the yard, pre-cast concrete ceiling tiles being affected by water and the proposed sealant failing, and poor quality cross ties.

WMATA IG has insisted that WMATA not accept a handover of the system until these issues are addressed.

Whether July 2020 happens, is a good question. By end-of-year, most likely.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: Washington Dulles IAD suddenly becoming a new destination for multiple large airlines

Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:15 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
AEROFAN wrote:
smokeybandit wrote:

I'd like to know where you went in the DC region that wasn't crowded. It's getting built up more and more every year.


As someone who lives in DC, the only time it is crowded is the metro station just after a baseball or hockey game.


Say what? I guess you've not been to Farragut North at 5:15 pm.


It's commuting time for the financial district area of the city. And people are commuting from the city to return to their homes in suburbia. Any city, small or large will have a crux of bodies at certain times of the day at certain locations. Go to Farragut North at 6PM or at 7PM and see what you find. Go to Farragut North on weekends and will find that you can run the African Savannah wildebeest population thru there without touching anyone.
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” ~Harlan Ellison~

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