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Ishrion
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DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:34 pm

Pretty insane how much the airport has grown in the last few years

DFW has now beaten ORD with the recent launch of STT last month.

Domestic Destinations
DFW: 193
ORD: 192
DEN: 189
ATL: 171

Just in 2019, 25 new routes (including international) were added to DFW:

BFL, GNV, HRL, YUM, BUR, SBP, BKG, SKB, FCA, MDT, STS, DGO, MUC, DUB, TGU, SAP, SDQ, TRI, SGU, ACA, HUX, UIO, GYE, STT

Future:

HHH, HND, FAI, PWM, TLV, AKL

According to the article, DFW has about 260 total destinations while ORD has 270.

DFW is ranked sixth for total destinations.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... r-airport/
 
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vhtje
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:44 pm

I can't click through due to EU data protection laws and US websites' nannying response to it.

How many of those 193 destinations are AA-only? And, how many are not AA?
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Ishrion
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:53 pm

vhtje wrote:
I can't click through due to EU data protection laws and US websites' nannying response to it.

How many of those 193 destinations are AA-only? And, how many are not AA?


I think only 5 are on other carriers:

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Boutique Air: Carlsbad (CNM), Victoria (VCT), Clovis (CVN), Greenville (GLH)
 
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Rookie87
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:05 pm

vhtje wrote:
I can't click through due to EU data protection laws and US websites' nannying response to it.

How many of those 193 destinations are AA-only? And, how many are not AA?


Article says overall AA is 85%
 
Antarius
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:15 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
vhtje wrote:
I can't click through due to EU data protection laws and US websites' nannying response to it.

How many of those 193 destinations are AA-only? And, how many are not AA?


Article says overall AA is 85%


That is percentage of traffic. I think vhtje is asking how many routes are exclusively served are by airlines other than AA.

A lot of routes will be AA only. Especially in Texas as WN does not operate out of DFW. Therefore while AUS-Dallas is shared, AUS-DFW is AA only.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
ITSTours
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:25 pm

I am rather impressed by the DEN number. Didn't know that many routes from DEN existed.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:31 pm

Interesting, I had thought this occurred years ago with the lack of terminal expansion at ORD. In reality, the top 4 are tightly packed in connections.

I would be curious to see smaller hubs added: DTW, EWR, IAD, PHX, SLC, SFO

I wonder how much of an impact having smaller planes with more range impacts this (e.g., A220 vs. 717).

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jplatts
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:36 pm

There are still some more domestic nonstop routes such as DFW-CAK, DFW-ALB, DFW-ABE, DFW-ATW, DFW-CRW, DFW-CHO, DFW-DBQ, DFW-DLH, DFW-FAY, DFW-FNT, DFW-GRB, DFW-AZO, DFW-LAN, DFW-PVD, DFW-ROC, DFW-RST, DFW-AVP, DFW-SYR, and DFW-TOL.
 
bravotango75
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:01 pm

Figured that BOS, JFK, EWR, LAX or SFO would have more, larger and more influential markets and all.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:03 pm

ITSTours wrote:
I am rather impressed by the DEN number. Didn't know that many routes from DEN existed.


DEN gets a few from EAS and Skywest at-risk flying to some very small cities on the Great Plains. viewtopic.php?t=1374201
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:04 pm

DFW will pass ORD for total destinations soon. She has become a monster.
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:12 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
Figured that BOS, JFK, EWR, LAX or SFO would have more, larger and more influential markets and all.
You understand this is about destinations. Unless you are a midcontinent airport it is hard to have a high destination count. Furthermore, this is specifically about domestic destinations, which would be even more exacerbated by not being a mid-continent airport.

I feel like you were the user that said something about not believing BOS did not have more destinations than DFW in another thread, but I could be wrong. Maybe you did not read the follow-ups on that other thread.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:31 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
Figured that BOS, JFK, EWR, LAX or SFO would have more, larger and more influential markets and all.


NYC, WAS and Bay Area are multi-airport towns. That splits traffic (decreasing gauge, increasing frequency) but also inhibits destination count. WN, by virtue of the 737-700 as its smallest plane, just isn't going to compete with AA at DFW for the smallest markets.

As for the Northeast airports generally, you have to look at differences in population density and distribution. From a hub, you need a destination airport:

- too far away to be considered drivable, at least by some significant portion of business traffic
- serving enough people to be worthwhile
- not so close to another airport that its traffic gets captured (as with a lot of prospective Niagara Falls traffic just driving to BUF, for example)

The Great Plains have quite a few commercial airports that meet those characteristics so it follows that DEN and DFW have lots of domestic destinations served. See the map on page 3 and mentally place DFW, DEN and MCI.

https://www.census.gov/prod/2009pubs/p25-1137.pdf
 
dstblj52
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:33 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
bravotango75 wrote:
Figured that BOS, JFK, EWR, LAX or SFO would have more, larger and more influential markets and all.


NYC, WAS and Bay Area are multi-airport towns. That splits traffic (decreasing gauge, increasing frequency) but also inhibits destination count. WN, by virtue of the 737-700 as its smallest plane, just isn't going to compete with AA at DFW for the smallest markets.

As for the Northeast airports generally, you have to look at differences in population density and distribution. From a hub, you need a destination airport:

- too far away to be considered drivable, at least by some significant portion of business traffic
- serving enough people to be worthwhile
- not so close to another airport that its traffic gets captured (as with a lot of prospective Niagara Falls traffic just driving to BUF, for example)

The Great Plains have quite a few commercial airports that meet those characteristics so it follows that DEN and DFW have lots of domestic destinations served. See the map on page 3 and mentally place DFW, DEN and MCI.

https://www.census.gov/prod/2009pubs/p25-1137.pdf

It's also the why mod continent hubs have a higher reliance on regional aircraft generally, because your flying in and out of a lot of small cities.
 
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AA777223
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:47 pm

I think DEN benefits from being the Southwestern hub for both UA and WN. Especially when you think about all those sun and snow destinations that are exclusively served from DEN (or at least on those carriers), the only thing that really is close is AA in PHX. When you combine that with the secondary international expansion that UA has been doing from DEN thanks to the 787, it makes sense.

Honestly, though, I too was surprised it was ranked that high. I expected to see LAX, MIA or even IAH up there.
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blockski
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:53 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
Figured that BOS, JFK, EWR, LAX or SFO would have more, larger and more influential markets and all.


Draw a circle around those airports and at least half of the area inside each one is water. Not a lot of destinations to serve in the ocean.
 
FSDan
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:13 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
Figured that BOS, JFK, EWR, LAX or SFO would have more, larger and more influential markets and all.


The ORD and DFW markets are plenty large and influential. But as others have mentioned it really comes down to geography. None of the markets you mentioned are in a remotely good location to serve more than a handful of domestic connections. SFO can serve connections up and down the West Coast reasonably well, but NYC, BOS, and LAX are just not positioned well for most domestic flows.
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ScottB
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:42 pm

AA777223 wrote:
I think DEN benefits from being the Southwestern hub for both UA and WN. Especially when you think about all those sun and snow destinations that are exclusively served from DEN (or at least on those carriers), the only thing that really is close is AA in PHX.


Huh? DEN is far from the only large airport in the Southwest for Southwest. LAS is nearly as large for WN as DEN, and PHX remains one of WN's top ten stations with nearly 200 daily departures. IIRC WN still has the largest O&D market share out of PHX.

MIflyer12 wrote:
As for the Northeast airports generally, you have to look at differences in population density and distribution. From a hub, you need a destination airport:


Well, one other key issue at pretty much every Northeast airport aside from PIT or IAD is capacity on both the airfield and in the terminals. BOS, PHL, BWI, DCA, and the NYC airports just don't have room to host hubs with over 500 daily departures. That's why we've seen some small, thin markets lose service to EWR -- there are more lucrative uses for the airfield/terminal capacity which those flights would utilize. That connecting traffic has been shifted to IAD.

Poor connecting geography also plays a role: it's unlikely we'll see flights like OKC-BOS or BHM-BOS any time soon just because there aren't many domestic connections which aren't circuitous and the O&D markets are fairly thin on their own.
 
B752OS
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:59 pm

Surprised DFW lacks year round, daily service to a number of northern destinations: BTV, PWM, PVD, ALB, SYR, ROC, MHT and HPN.

BUF is only served once a day. BDL is only served once a day.
 
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jscottwomack
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

jplatts wrote:
There are still some more domestic nonstop routes such as DFW-CAK, DFW-ALB, DFW-ABE, DFW-ATW, DFW-CRW, DFW-CHO, DFW-DBQ, DFW-DLH, DFW-FAY, DFW-FNT, DFW-GRB, DFW-AZO, DFW-LAN, DFW-PVD, DFW-ROC, DFW-RST, DFW-AVP, DFW-SYR, and DFW-TOL.


Several of these have always had me scratching my head as why they have not started them. I know several are within 200 miles of another hub (ORD, PHL) and that might have something to do with it, but I still find it odd they can't fill at least 1 plane a day round-trip from DFW to Green Bay, Appleton, Rochester, Albany, Syracuse.
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ethernal
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:18 pm

jscottwomack wrote:
jplatts wrote:
There are still some more domestic nonstop routes such as DFW-CAK, DFW-ALB, DFW-ABE, DFW-ATW, DFW-CRW, DFW-CHO, DFW-DBQ, DFW-DLH, DFW-FAY, DFW-FNT, DFW-GRB, DFW-AZO, DFW-LAN, DFW-PVD, DFW-ROC, DFW-RST, DFW-AVP, DFW-SYR, and DFW-TOL.


Several of these have always had me scratching my head as why they have not started them. I know several are within 200 miles of another hub (ORD, PHL) and that might have something to do with it, but I still find it odd they can't fill at least 1 plane a day round-trip from DFW to Green Bay, Appleton, Rochester, Albany, Syracuse.


Of course they could fill at least 1 plane a day round-trip from DFW to Green Bay or Appleton. The issue is that it does not make sense to do so. Most of that would be very low yield connecting customers flying on a high CASM regional jet for 2 hours. They're better routed via ORD or PHL depending on their destination.

Generally speaking, there is not enough daily high yield traffic to justify routes like that. High yield and one a day is almost an antithesis as you are going to exclude whatever business travelers (or high yield leisure) with your timing in at least one direction (i.e., morning flights and evening flights tend to be higher yielding than mid-day flights - and you're going to be off-cycle in at least one direction).

American Airlines is actually pretty liberal with their routes (although United is the king of the one-a-day flight in my experience). As a comparison point, Delta serves significantly fewer routes out of Atlanta than DFW despite the fact that they pass through significantly more passengers. But on all of those routes? Pretty much at least 3x daily frequency. This significantly reduces IRROPS risk, increases PRASM, and allows them to run a higher gauge on average (serving fewer routes, not more frequencies of course).
 
jhknight
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:57 pm

Kirby commented about IAH one day rivaling DFW when the new C north was unveiled. Here’s to hoping! UA pulled out of many small TX cities after the merger. Let’s get back in the gAAme.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:24 am

AA777223 wrote:
I think DEN benefits from being the Southwestern hub for both UA and WN. Especially when you think about all those sun and snow destinations that are exclusively served from DEN (or at least on those carriers), the only thing that really is close is AA in PHX. When you combine that with the secondary international expansion that UA has been doing from DEN thanks to the 787, it makes sense.

Honestly, though, I too was surprised it was ranked that high. I expected to see LAX, MIA or even IAH up there.

Nitpick, as a snow hub, SLC is quite near DEN and also expanding, but of course, not in the same league of connections. However, DL likes to funnel everything to ATL as the connect (almost) everywhere at (almost) anytime model works well.

As a consumer, I just want more options. I love the within concourse B connections.

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maximairways
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:53 pm

B752OS wrote:
Surprised DFW lacks year round, daily service to a number of northern destinations: BTV, PWM, PVD, ALB, SYR, ROC, MHT and HPN.

BUF is only served once a day. BDL is only served once a day.


BDL has been, and is for the summer 2x. I think its down to 1x currently due to the MAX.
 
uconn99
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:21 pm

B752OS wrote:
Surprised DFW lacks year round, daily service to a number of northern destinations: BTV, PWM, PVD, ALB, SYR, ROC, MHT and HPN.

BUF is only served once a day. BDL is only served once a day.


Typically BDL is 2x daily to DFW, the max issues have caused this to go less than daily at some points of the year. I remember back in the 2000's AA ran BDL-DFW 4x daily.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:44 pm

DFW is such a beast. Kudos to those guys.
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jplatts
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:24 pm

uconn99 wrote:
B752OS wrote:
BDL is only served once a day.


Typically BDL is 2x daily to DFW, the max issues have caused this to go less than daily at some points of the year. I remember back in the 2000's AA ran BDL-DFW 4x daily.


WN adding DAL-BDL nonstop service might be a possibility with WN having a bigger presence at BDL than at most of the other WN stations that don't currently have nonstop service out of DAL.
 
Detroit313
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:00 pm

Congratulations to DFW and American Airlines!
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:11 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
Figured that BOS, JFK, EWR, LAX or SFO would have more, larger and more influential markets and all.

Common sense should tell you that that wouldn't be the case.

Each one of those airports is coastal, so their domestic destinations are going to be limited in at least one direction.
Also, unlike DFW/ORD/ATL/etc, none of those airports are the largest/home/primary domestic gateway for any major carrier.
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jhsusman
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:38 pm

With United’s planned large expansion, I could see DEN passing DFW in the coming years. DEN just announced another new destination yesterday, SMX which should take them to 190 domestic destinations.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:47 pm

ITSTours wrote:

I am rather impressed by the DEN number. Didn't know that many routes from DEN existed.


And still no PIA. A route Ozark, CO and UA have flown in the past. With DC-9s, 727s and 737s respectively.
Last edited by OzarkD9S on Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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OzarkD9S
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:51 pm

LAX772LR wrote:

Common sense should tell you that that wouldn't be the case.

Each one of those airports is coastal, so their domestic destinations are going to be limited in at least one direction.
Also, unlike DFW/ORD/ATL/etc, none of those airports are the largest/home/primary domestic gateway for any major carrier.


The only one that would even have a shot at that would be EWR, but again, geography.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
atx11
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Re: DFW Now Has The Most Domestic Destinations

Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:32 am

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
bravotango75 wrote:
Figured that BOS, JFK, EWR, LAX or SFO would have more, larger and more influential markets and all.
You understand this is about destinations. Unless you are a midcontinent airport it is hard to have a high destination count. Furthermore, this is specifically about domestic destinations, which would be even more exacerbated by not being a mid-continent airport.

I feel like you were the user that said something about not believing BOS did not have more destinations than DFW in another thread, but I could be wrong. Maybe you did not read the follow-ups on that other thread.


Oh it was him. He has a thing for thinking BOS is the center of the universe and the rest of us are just along for the ride haha

Congrats to DFW. The addition of F and the D stinger Gates will allow it to grow even more in the near future.

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