dstblj52 wrote:

Delta is an opportunist buyer, which means you can sell them end of the line aircraft or aircraft with a bad history, or unusual configs, etc.

fessor wrote:

What About TG, to replace A330CEO, B777-200, B777-300 and 777-200ER, they have 33.
But then again their financial situation is not the best.

AirwayBill wrote:

I'm secretly hoping this is Air Greenland, with huge expansion ambitions ala Icelandair

The A330neo wearing the all red livery + raccoon mask would look amazing.

AirwayBill wrote:

I'm secretly hoping this is Air Greenland, with huge expansion ambitions ala Icelandair

The A330neo wearing the all red livery + raccoon mask would look amazing.

jules48 wrote:

IAG.To split between BA,IB etc

BN727227Ultra wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

EMB170 wrote:

My gut reaction was DL as well given the size of their existing A339 order.

It's been asserted that Airbus doesn't include non-binding LOIs in orders. If it's firm, DL needed to disclose it. Two+ weeks have passed since Airbus' order date and DL has no relevant SEC filing, so I'll say it's not DL - with some confidence.

I think Chinese government, with allocations to specific carriers to be firmed later, is the right answer.

Has DL actually completed the LATAM buy? It's a stretch, but could LATAM be buying them on behalf of Delta and Virgin Atlantic?

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Favre4 wrote:

jethawk wrote:

Would it be plausible for Virgin Atlantic to take delivery of these birds and lease them to DL?

Why wouldn’t DL just buy them ?

Tariff avoidance? If the planes are transferred to the VS order book and then leased to DL, is DL ever sold the plane for purposes of tariffs against Airbus for a complete plane?

LAX772LR wrote:

dstblj52 wrote:

Delta is an opportunist buyer, which means you can sell them end of the line aircraft or aircraft with a bad history, or unusual configs, etc.

Can you expand on this "aircraft with a bad history" bit?

That should be interesting...

dstblj52 wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

dstblj52 wrote:

Delta is an opportunist buyer, which means you can sell them end of the line aircraft or aircraft with a bad history, or unusual configs, etc.

Can you expand on this "aircraft with a bad history" bit?

That should be interesting...

Certain planes get damage so thing like wiglets can't be added, and have bad or non existent maintenance records.

wjcandee wrote:

dstblj52 wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

Can you expand on this "aircraft with a bad history" bit?

That should be interesting...

Certain planes get damage so thing like wiglets can't be added, and have bad or non existent maintenance records.

Delta is flying planes that are damaged and/or have nonexistent maintenance records?? Delta.

I guess if you have the kind of maint capabilities that DL does, you could bridge an aircraft as described by reinspecting the undocumented inspections. But "nonexistent" records? You would tear down the whole plane and inspect everything? That would, um, seem to add to its total price.

MCTSET wrote:

codyul wrote:

I'm liking all of this. I think with the MAX out, AC is seeing some positives to larger capacity, less frequency. At least that's what I'm hoping.

But they have 37 Dreamliner's why do they need NEO’s?

MIflyer12 wrote:

Yes, DL completed the purchase of its 20% equity stake. SEC filings in these matters are quick, public, and definitive.

'In accordance with the provisions of article 212 of the Securities Market Law and the provisions of General Regulation No. 104 of the CMF, the Offeror declares
the Offer successful and accepts and acquires 116,243,785 shares of LATAM and 5,037,753 ADS. Based on the foregoing, the Offeror becomes a direct and
indirect holder (through the ADS) of 121,281,538 LATAM shares, which represent 20% of LATAM’s issued, subscribed and paid-in shares.'

DL's filing from 12/30/19: https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/C ... 761aae.pdf

dstblj52 wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

dstblj52 wrote:

Delta is an opportunist buyer, which means you can sell them end of the line aircraft or aircraft with a bad history, or unusual configs, etc.

Can you expand on this "aircraft with a bad history" bit?

Certain planes get damage so thing like wiglets can't be added, and have bad or non existent maintenance records.

You can provide the tail numbers of any aircraft in the history of aviation that Delta has acquired for service with "non existent (sic) maintenance records," or...
You can admit that you have no blessed clue what you're talking about.

eagles94 wrote:

For arguments sake, could it not be on a less obvious underdog, like Jet2 or Wizz

northstardc4m wrote:

MCTSET wrote:

But they have 37 Dreamliner's why do they need NEO’s?

It's not an exclusive choice... Different markets suit each type. AC has a fleet of A330-300s as it is that they have recently almost doubled in size (13 in service, 2 more coming) so the separate market in the AC network is there... Buying a fleet of 339s to replace them is a possibility... We aren't saying its likely ( I said off the wall for a reason) but it is possible.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

jbs2886 wrote:

Speedalive wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

The other wild card is Cathay Pacific (plus Dragon), as they have some ancient A330s (including the first one ever built) that need replacement, along with B773(A) frames that are are 18 years of age or older., this would be a replacement of their ancient A333s (the oldest 25) and the 17 B773(A) frames, OR it could be to move A321s (including the HK Express fleet if reconfigured to Cathay Dragon standards) to A321 routes and move the current A321 routes to A330 service...retiring the ancient A320s and A321s. Cathay Pacific (plus Dragon) has a lot of old planes needing replacement and HK Express, an acquisition recently closed, is probably worth more its fleet than keeping that brand alive.

I wouldn't discount this at all. The A339 would be a good one to one replacement of CX's 28 A333's to save on gas and maintenance. Given their current predicament with the local economy, it might also make sense to effectively downsize by replacing some of the older regional 773's with the remaining 12 NEO's to better match the lowered O/D demand to HKG, while at the same time continuing to replace unprofitable 77W F routes with the more efficient A35K as they've been doing already. I'm not sure if they would replace all 17 773's because three of those frames were acquired from EK just this past year to replace the last of their 772's, so the plane does seem to serve them well. They probably don't need all of that capacity now though, and I'm positive that they did not foresee these protests when they bought them. They could also just split the order with KA. It's anyone's guess really. Perhaps they're waiting for a more opportune time to announce the order and maybe Airbus made CX a sweet deal to buy back some of their newer A330's as part of the deal like when Boeing offered to take Air Canada's E190's for the 737 Max order.

The case for Air Canada also makes sense too, but with the whole TS merger, it seems like a lot is up in the air. It would be neat if this was Onex/WS trying to be more aggressive against AC, especially now that they're a private company, but that feels like a pipe dream.

More than likely, this will probably be something super underwhelming... probably EK, China, or a lessor company, as everyone else has said.

I just don't think CX is in any position to be ordering new aircraft right now - probably wait until things settle down.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

If you look at the age of much of the CX/KA A320, A321, and A333 fleet, many of them are ancient and are nearing time-out. The LH Group recently retired some A333s of similar age to be scrapped as they were less than 5,000 hours of timing out.

conaly wrote:

...
Still, those planes have been older, than any A330-300 in either Cathay Pacific or Dragon fleet. All A330-300s, that have ever been delivered to Cathay, are still in operation, either with Cathay Pacific/Dragon, or some with Brussels. And as all of them are equipped with RR-engines, I do not see them to be scrapped soon. Besides, aren't some of the older frames leased anyway?

GCT64 wrote:

I think at least a couple of CX A330s are not still in operation, I believe B-HLA and B-HLC are both at Teruel now: B-HLA from in from CTU on 27 Aug 19, B-HLC from DWC on 28 Nov 19.

musman9853 wrote:

No matter whos ordering them, I'm glad the a330neo is getting more love. Glad we're not seeing an a380 repeat

2175301 wrote:

My guess: Amedeo

They could not handle 20 A380's and figure that 40 A330's will work much better. We also know that they meet the strict Airbus requirements required to log a "Firm order."

It makes as much sense (perhaps more) than some of the previous "suggestions."

Have a great day,

2175301 wrote:

My guess: Amedeo

They could not handle 20 A380's and figure that 40 A330's will work much better. We also know that they meet the strict Airbus requirements required to log a "Firm order."

It makes as much sense (perhaps more) than some of the previous "suggestions."

Have a great day,

PepeTheFrog wrote:

Delta28L wrote:

My guess is China since they order in big batches and they don’t list the individual airlines till delivery.

I think China is in no position to take more widebody aircraft right now. The biggest airline, Hainan, is getting rid of its A350 and 787 orders. They ordered too many aircraft.

ba319-131 wrote:

jules48 wrote:

IAG.To split between BA,IB etc

- highly unlikely

Agree with a few others, suspect ordered by China to split between the big 3.

jules48 wrote:

IAG.To split between BA,IB etc

c933103 wrote:

PepeTheFrog wrote:

Delta28L wrote:

My guess is China since they order in big batches and they don’t list the individual airlines till delivery.

I think China is in no position to take more widebody aircraft right now. The biggest airline, Hainan, is getting rid of its A350 and 787 orders. They ordered too many aircraft.

Hainan is Hainan

mjoelnir wrote:

I find it strange that here are endless posts about who could have ordered 40 UFO A330-900 and the most logical answer, China doing it for the three big Chinese airlines, is not accepted as the most likely.

hOMSaR wrote:

mjoelnir wrote:

I find it strange that here are endless posts about who could have ordered 40 UFO A330-900 and the most logical answer, China doing it for the three big Chinese airlines, is not accepted as the most likely.

Not only that but they also keep bringing up carriers that would have been legally required to disclose such a large, multi-billion-dollar commitment even though numerous folks have explained those legal requirements for publicly-traded corporations.

frigatebird wrote:

ba319-131 wrote:

jules48 wrote:

IAG.To split between BA,IB etc

- highly unlikely

Agree with a few others, suspect ordered by China to split between the big 3.

Could it be possible China ordered 40 A330neo to enable HNA cancelling some of their A350 orders? I realise HNA is privately owned, but it's not in China's interest either to let debts for HNA accumulate. And China's A330 completion center needs aircraft to complete... Of course the A330neo being excellent aircraft is not unimportant, and the A330ceo is already a very popular aircraft in China.
If true, it would be another blow to Boeing, who haven't sold any 787-10 to China yet.

If not, I think Indigo is likely, they expressed strong interest in the A330neo until recently: https://simpleflying.com/indigo-widebod ... n-flights/
And Indigo likes to order big...

hOMSaR wrote:

mjoelnir wrote:

I find it strange that here are endless posts about who could have ordered 40 UFO A330-900 and the most logical answer, China doing it for the three big Chinese airlines, is not accepted as the most likely.

Not only that but they also keep bringing up carriers that would have been legally required to disclose such a large, multi-billion-dollar commitment even though numerous folks have explained those legal requirements for publicly-traded corporations.

rbavfan wrote:

flyby519 wrote:

If it was an American company like DL wouldn’t they be required to notify the SEC and investors immediately? I thought these “undisclosed” customers always meant non-US

Not until payments are made. Customers like Delta can get most likely get better terms on that. Thus allowing them to keep their plans private till a point too late for their main competition to react.

jbs2886 wrote:

Polot wrote:

Airlines under disclosure requirements are not always as quick as users here assume they need to be to disclose the order. HA, DL, and UA, off the top of my head, have both announced orders that turned out to be UFOs (or announced weeks after we learned they firmly signed). But there is a difference between a a relatively small add on order and 40 wide bodies- that would be disclosed very quickly.

The US aviation media also, for obvious reasons, has a lot of contacts and leaks at the US3. Reuters announced the UA XLR deal before UA/Airbus did. There has been nary a peep about any US carrier ordering 40 A330s.

It’s almost certainly China. I don’t think EK mostly because EK loves media attention and would be teasing a build up of will they or won’t they also order A330s (beyond just the interview they did around A350/787 order).

100% everyone is claiming US airlines MUST announce firm orders almost immediately, but there are plenty of examples where they haven’t. But, the size of this order does change that.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Favre4 wrote:

jethawk wrote:

Would it be plausible for Virgin Atlantic to take delivery of these birds and lease them to DL?

Why wouldn’t DL just buy them ?

Tariff avoidance? If the planes are transferred to the VS order book and then leased to DL, is DL ever sold the plane for purposes of tariffs against Airbus for a complete plane?

majano wrote:

hOMSaR wrote:

mjoelnir wrote:

I find it strange that here are endless posts about who could have ordered 40 UFO A330-900 and the most logical answer, China doing it for the three big Chinese airlines, is not accepted as the most likely.

Not only that but they also keep bringing up carriers that would have been legally required to disclose such a large, multi-billion-dollar commitment even though numerous folks have explained those legal requirements for publicly-traded corporations.

So, would it have been better if the conversation stopped as soon as someone mentioned the name of China? I am not sure I understand where this is going given that most A-Net discussions are about speculation.

*Airbus is looking at assembling its newest A330neo wide-body jet in China as part of a bid to win orders for the plane in one of the world’s fastest-growing aviation markets, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

Airbus may expand its existing plant in Tianjin to accommodate the model, but a decision has not been made with the business case yet to be established, said the people, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private. The plan may not go ahead, they cautioned.

A spokesman for Airbus declined to comment.

Airbus previously offered to build its A380 superjumbo in China in exchange for orders from the country’s airlines, but that pitch was rejected amid concerns about the double-decker plane’s suitability for the local market, according to two of the people. The smaller, more fuel-efficient A330neo is potentially a better fit, with more than 200 of the original-generation model already sold in the Asian nation.

The move to extend the Tianjin plant -- which currently assembles Airbus’ single-aisle A320 workhorse -- comes as Rolls-Royce is said to be offering to establish a Chinese plant to secure an engine deal for the wide-body plane being developed by Comac. The UK company is pitching a derivative of the Trent 7000 turbine for that aircraft, which is also the only option on the A330neo.

China is set to become the world’s biggest plane market next decade and will need almost 8,000 aircraft worth $1.2 trillion over 20 years, according to Boeing estimates. President Xi Jinping has also earmarked aerospace as a priority industry, encouraging Western producers to set up shop in the country.

The A330neo -- abbreviated from new engine option -- assembly plant would add to an existing completion and delivery center for Airbus’ original A330, where planes get final touches before being shipped to the customers.

Clackers wrote:

Maybe SQ to replace their 787s on local routes?