Baldr wrote:

majano wrote:

hOMSaR wrote:

Not only that but they also keep bringing up carriers that would have been legally required to disclose such a large, multi-billion-dollar commitment even though numerous folks have explained those legal requirements for publicly-traded corporations.

So, would it have been better if the conversation stopped as soon as someone mentioned the name of China? I am not sure I understand where this is going given that most A-Net discussions are about speculation.

Quite a few a.netters seem to be unable to fathom that the A330-900 is turning out to be highly competitive with the 787-9. Therefore, they seem to believe that only China will be bulk buying A330neos, for political reasons, going forward. However, if China is going to be bulk buying A330neos -- say, 200+ units -- Airbus will very likely set up an A330neo FAL in Tianjin*.

IMJ, the firm order for 40 A330-900s is very likely from Emirates. The first aircraft can be delivered as early as mid 2021.

*Airbus is looking at assembling its newest A330neo wide-body jet in China as part of a bid to win orders for the plane in one of the world’s fastest-growing aviation markets, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

Airbus may expand its existing plant in Tianjin to accommodate the model, but a decision has not been made with the business case yet to be established, said the people, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private. The plan may not go ahead, they cautioned.

A spokesman for Airbus declined to comment.

Airbus previously offered to build its A380 superjumbo in China in exchange for orders from the country’s airlines, but that pitch was rejected amid concerns about the double-decker plane’s suitability for the local market, according to two of the people. The smaller, more fuel-efficient A330neo is potentially a better fit, with more than 200 of the original-generation model already sold in the Asian nation.

The move to extend the Tianjin plant -- which currently assembles Airbus’ single-aisle A320 workhorse -- comes as Rolls-Royce is said to be offering to establish a Chinese plant to secure an engine deal for the wide-body plane being developed by Comac. The UK company is pitching a derivative of the Trent 7000 turbine for that aircraft, which is also the only option on the A330neo.

China is set to become the world’s biggest plane market next decade and will need almost 8,000 aircraft worth $1.2 trillion over 20 years, according to Boeing estimates. President Xi Jinping has also earmarked aerospace as a priority industry, encouraging Western producers to set up shop in the country.

The A330neo -- abbreviated from new engine option -- assembly plant would add to an existing completion and delivery center for Airbus’ original A330, where planes get final touches before being shipped to the customers.

https://www.thenational.ae/business/aviation/airbus-weighs-making-its-newest-jet-in-china-to-win-orders-1.831951

CriticalPoint wrote:

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it’s United. They have 767-300s that start turning 30 next year.....they need to be replaced now. They also have 757s that start turning 30 this year and they need to be replaced now.

If you take all Polaris 767s and the 767-400 fleet plus the 7 aircraft that are due to be parked and currently. You get 39 frames.

The 767-400 is new and can be brought home to beef up domestic and you can keep the old seat and save the money on the Polaris reconfigurations. The 767-400 is a CASM machine and could be great on heavy domestic markets.

Or

You replace all 767-300s and leave the 767-400s INTL. bring the High J 767s to the PS routes and market as the only airline with all WB dual isle NY to CA service. You can then park all the old 757-200s.
You fly the 767-300 tell the end of its useful life or until you get full ROI on the Polaris mod.

United can no longer wait for an NMA as it is now solidly on the back burner. And if Boeing is smart they are already working on a new narrow body to replace the 737.

LAX772LR wrote:

dstblj52 wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

Can you expand on this "aircraft with a bad history" bit?

Certain planes get damage so thing like wiglets can't be added, and have bad or non existent maintenance records.

Hmm, in the name of fairness, let's tap the brakes for a second and give you a choice:

You can provide the tail numbers of any aircraft in the history of aviation that Delta has acquired for service with "non existent (sic) maintenance records," or...
You can admit that you have no blessed clue what you're talking about.

Which will it be?

scbriml wrote:

CriticalPoint wrote:

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it’s United. They have 767-300s that start turning 30 next year.....they need to be replaced now. They also have 757s that start turning 30 this year and they need to be replaced now.

If you take all Polaris 767s and the 767-400 fleet plus the 7 aircraft that are due to be parked and currently. You get 39 frames.

The 767-400 is new and can be brought home to beef up domestic and you can keep the old seat and save the money on the Polaris reconfigurations. The 767-400 is a CASM machine and could be great on heavy domestic markets.

Or

You replace all 767-300s and leave the 767-400s INTL. bring the High J 767s to the PS routes and market as the only airline with all WB dual isle NY to CA service. You can then park all the old 757-200s.
You fly the 767-300 tell the end of its useful life or until you get full ROI on the Polaris mod.

United can no longer wait for an NMA as it is now solidly on the back burner. And if Boeing is smart they are already working on a new narrow body to replace the 737.

But what about the requirements for UA to disclose such an order?

CriticalPoint wrote:

scbriml wrote:

CriticalPoint wrote:

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it’s United. They have 767-300s that start turning 30 next year.....they need to be replaced now. They also have 757s that start turning 30 this year and they need to be replaced now.

If you take all Polaris 767s and the 767-400 fleet plus the 7 aircraft that are due to be parked and currently. You get 39 frames.

The 767-400 is new and can be brought home to beef up domestic and you can keep the old seat and save the money on the Polaris reconfigurations. The 767-400 is a CASM machine and could be great on heavy domestic markets.

Or

You replace all 767-300s and leave the 767-400s INTL. bring the High J 767s to the PS routes and market as the only airline with all WB dual isle NY to CA service. You can then park all the old 757-200s.
You fly the 767-300 tell the end of its useful life or until you get full ROI on the Polaris mod.

United can no longer wait for an NMA as it is now solidly on the back burner. And if Boeing is smart they are already working on a new narrow body to replace the 737.

But what about the requirements for UA to disclose such an order?

They announce results next week. I don’t know what the rules are on reporting orders.

1989worstyear wrote:

CriticalPoint wrote:

scbriml wrote:

But what about the requirements for UA to disclose such an order?

They announce results next week. I don’t know what the rules are on reporting orders.

They sure put a lot of work into the 763's if they will all be retired in 3 years

CriticalPoint wrote:

scbriml wrote:

CriticalPoint wrote:

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it’s United. They have 767-300s that start turning 30 next year.....they need to be replaced now. They also have 757s that start turning 30 this year and they need to be replaced now.

If you take all Polaris 767s and the 767-400 fleet plus the 7 aircraft that are due to be parked and currently. You get 39 frames.

The 767-400 is new and can be brought home to beef up domestic and you can keep the old seat and save the money on the Polaris reconfigurations. The 767-400 is a CASM machine and could be great on heavy domestic markets.

Or

You replace all 767-300s and leave the 767-400s INTL. bring the High J 767s to the PS routes and market as the only airline with all WB dual isle NY to CA service. You can then park all the old 757-200s.
You fly the 767-300 tell the end of its useful life or until you get full ROI on the Polaris mod.

United can no longer wait for an NMA as it is now solidly on the back burner. And if Boeing is smart they are already working on a new narrow body to replace the 737.

But what about the requirements for UA to disclose such an order?

They announce results next week. I don’t know what the rules are on reporting orders.

T4thH wrote:

CriticalPoint wrote:

scbriml wrote:

But what about the requirements for UA to disclose such an order?

They announce results next week. I don’t know what the rules are on reporting orders.

Oh this is easy to say, immediately, so latest next day, prior the stock exchange will start. Of course, it will be possible, UA has not done it. But pretty sure, also this will be known soon...just look TV, you will get a nice chance to see live, when several dozens of SEC officials together with 100 police men with several trucks will make a stop in front of the UA office, to collect all binders and computers. And of course with some handcuffs. You know, they will do a little bit more than average, when a imposition of several billion can be expected.

And again as already 100 times explained....This was a firmed order by undisclosed and this order was already done/firmed signed last year on 27-Dec-2019. A LOI will not to have been announced (still with an LOI order of 30x A330 it will be different), this is a firm order by undisclosed.

Any airline, company or lessor, which is listed at any stock exchange (especially in New York, Europe or anywhere else) will have to announce an firmed order of this size on same date or latest on following working day, prior the stock exchanges opens. And this without any exception.

So no, never nor, njet AA, UA, Delta, Qantas, LH group, Turkish airlines, IAG, Laatam, flybe e.g e.g e.g Also no lessors, who are listed as GECAS or AerCap or or or or....

This leaves only few big airlines, who are government owned and are big enough or are private owned.
Emirates will be possible, perhaps also Air Asia X.
Most likely as already several times done, it is the Chinese government, who (again has ordered as "undisclosed") has ordered the 40x A330-900 for the government own/controlled big Chinese airlines.

CriticalPoint wrote:

T4thH wrote:

CriticalPoint wrote:

They announce results next week. I don’t know what the rules are on reporting orders.

Oh this is easy to say, immediately, so latest next day, prior the stock exchange will start. Of course, it will be possible, UA has not done it. But pretty sure, also this will be known soon...just look TV, you will get a nice chance to see live, when several dozens of SEC officials together with 100 police men with several trucks will make a stop in front of the UA office, to collect all binders and computers. And of course with some handcuffs. You know, they will do a little bit more than average, when a imposition of several billion can be expected.

And again as already 100 times explained....This was a firmed order by undisclosed and this order was already done/firmed signed last year on 27-Dec-2019. A LOI will not to have been announced (still with an LOI order of 30x A330 it will be different), this is a firm order by undisclosed.

Any airline, company or lessor, which is listed at any stock exchange (especially in New York, Europe or anywhere else) will have to announce an firmed order of this size on same date or latest on following working day, prior the stock exchanges opens. And this without any exception.

So no, never nor, njet AA, UA, Delta, Qantas, LH group, Turkish airlines, IAG, Laatam, flybe e.g e.g e.g Also no lessors, who are listed as GECAS or AerCap or or or or....

This leaves only few big airlines, who are government owned and are big enough or are private owned.
Emirates will be possible, perhaps also Air Asia X.
Most likely as already several times done, it is the Chinese government, who (again has ordered as "undisclosed") has ordered the 40x A330-900 for the government own/controlled big Chinese airlines.

Ok....

Then tell me this, United has historically announced aircraft orders and changes to aircraft orders on earnings calls. For example the last 2 batches of 787s. So why would this be any different? They were obviously working out the details months prior.

CriticalPoint wrote:

Then tell me this, United has historically announced aircraft orders and changes to aircraft orders on earnings calls. For example the last 2 batches of 787s. So why would this be any different? They were obviously working out the details months prior.

moa999 wrote:

CriticalPoint wrote:

Then tell me this, United has historically announced aircraft orders and changes to aircraft orders on earnings calls. For example the last 2 batches of 787s. So why would this be any different? They were obviously working out the details months prior.

Details/ negotiations yes. But not final approval.
Most major companies will have a Board meeting the day before results to approve things - donut can be announced the next morning.

Without that approval, Airbus cant include it

CriticalPoint wrote:

moa999 wrote:

CriticalPoint wrote:

Then tell me this, United has historically announced aircraft orders and changes to aircraft orders on earnings calls. For example the last 2 batches of 787s. So why would this be any different? They were obviously working out the details months prior.

Details/ negotiations yes. But not final approval.
Most major companies will have a Board meeting the day before results to approve things - donut can be announced the next morning.

Without that approval, Airbus cant include it

Meh....I don’t know enough about this stuff to know if you are all right or wrong so I’m going to assume you are right.

I still believe it would be smart for UA to get atleast 40 330s. Boeing has nothing to offer and the 767s are cooked. The 321XLR does not replace them, and right now UAs order book cannot replace them.

This order just seems to make to much sense...... Kirby had 330s at AA so they are a known quantity. Whether or not he liked them I have no idea.

Earnings season, Boeing confusion, new CEO, old airplanes, 350s they don’t want but can’t get out of the RR engine agreement.....and this A330 order has RR......don’t know if it quacks like a duck....

proudavgeek wrote:

My SUPER SUPER Optimistic guess will be Indigo Airline of India. They have a habit of ordering 100+ planes (narrowbody ofcourse) and they have been looking to go international for a while now. While ordering 40 at a go will be bit risky move, if anyone can pull it off, it will be Indigo.

It will be interesting to see who the actual orderer is. My safest bet is Government of China..

olle wrote:

How many orders has 787 secured in 2019

juliuswong wrote:

Somehow my gut feeling is telling me it is not IndiGo. They are risk averse organisation and prefers to grow organic in firstly local market, now regional market, before jumping the long haul market (if they do).

sxf24 wrote:

dstblj52 wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

dstblj52 wrote:

Certain planes get damage so thing like wiglets can't be added, and have bad or non existent maintenance records.

Hmm, in the name of fairness, let's tap the brakes for a second and give you a choice:

You can provide the tail numbers of any aircraft in the history of aviation that Delta has acquired for service with "non existent (sic) maintenance records," or...
You can admit that you have no blessed clue what you're talking about.

Which will it be?

I admit I was taking it to far but even lightsaber admits certain airlines will take planes with bad paper work and run them through a C or D check, and a engine overhaul.

1989worstyear wrote:

They sure put a lot of work into the 763's if they will all be retired in 3 years

Draken21fx wrote:

DDR wrote:

Congrats to Airbus. The A330 is an amazing aircraft from a passenger’s perspective. It’s also liked by flight attendants.

Because I am genuinely curious can you please elaborate on the last part of your sentence as to why the neo is liked by flight crew? Is it the case for the 350 or 787 and if not would you happen to know why?

Clackers wrote:

Maybe SQ to replace their 787s on local routes?

Draken21fx wrote:

DDR wrote:

Congrats to Airbus. The A330 is an amazing aircraft from a passenger’s perspective. It’s also liked by flight attendants.

Because I am genuinely curious can you please elaborate on the last part of your sentence as to why the neo is liked by flight crew? Is it the case for the 350 or 787 and if not would you happen to know why?

Drucocu wrote:

Can't help but hope it's something we'd never expect. Like an EU (U)LCC jumping into either high capacity short haul or even medium haul. On short haul especially in the current market where upgauging in frequency is getting more and more prohibitive due to constrained airports. One can't stop dreaming, can they?

1989worstyear wrote:

I'll thought there would be a few more before the end of the year.

Airplane of the Year 1994 will live on with her new engines.

worldranger wrote:

On EKs current inflight podcast for January, during STCs customary interview he specifically mentions the upcoming arrivals of 787s, 77Xs, 350s....AND A330NEOs.

This is a post Xmas interview

dfpinto wrote:

Going to bet on LH Group, because Brussels already operates Airbus LH fleet and Austrian's LH fleet is beyond ancient.

It's either that or obviously Ryanair going TATL

cougar15 wrote:

dfpinto wrote:

Going to bet on LH Group, because Brussels already operates Airbus LH fleet and Austrian's LH fleet is beyond ancient.

It's either that or obviously Ryanair going TATL

… Will say it again, LH (forgot the group bit in my last post....) lets look over the brim of our teacup, think out of the box, and suddenly there may be light at the end of the tunnel. Would also explain the ´undisclosed bit´ for those in the know......

cougar15 wrote:

dfpinto wrote:

Going to bet on LH Group, because Brussels already operates Airbus LH fleet and Austrian's LH fleet is beyond ancient.

It's either that or obviously Ryanair going TATL

… Will say it again, LH (forgot the group bit in my last post....) lets look over the brim of our teacup, think out of the box, and suddenly there may be light at the end of the tunnel. Would also explain the ´undisclosed bit´ for those in the know......

Baldr wrote:

majano wrote:

hOMSaR wrote:

Not only that but they also keep bringing up carriers that would have been legally required to disclose such a large, multi-billion-dollar commitment even though numerous folks have explained those legal requirements for publicly-traded corporations.

So, would it have been better if the conversation stopped as soon as someone mentioned the name of China? I am not sure I understand where this is going given that most A-Net discussions are about speculation.

Quite a few a.netters seem to be unable to fathom that the A330-900 is turning out to be highly competitive with the 787-9. Therefore, they seem to believe that only China will be bulk buying A330neos, for political reasons, going forward. However, if China is going to be bulk buying A330neos -- say, 200+ units -- Airbus will very likely set up an A330neo FAL in Tianjin*.

IMJ, the firm order for 40 A330-900s is very likely from Emirates. The first aircraft can be delivered as early as mid 2021.

*Airbus is looking at assembling its newest A330neo wide-body jet in China as part of a bid to win orders for the plane in one of the world’s fastest-growing aviation markets, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

Airbus may expand its existing plant in Tianjin to accommodate the model, but a decision has not been made with the business case yet to be established, said the people, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private. The plan may not go ahead, they cautioned.

A spokesman for Airbus declined to comment.

Airbus previously offered to build its A380 superjumbo in China in exchange for orders from the country’s airlines, but that pitch was rejected amid concerns about the double-decker plane’s suitability for the local market, according to two of the people. The smaller, more fuel-efficient A330neo is potentially a better fit, with more than 200 of the original-generation model already sold in the Asian nation.

The move to extend the Tianjin plant -- which currently assembles Airbus’ single-aisle A320 workhorse -- comes as Rolls-Royce is said to be offering to establish a Chinese plant to secure an engine deal for the wide-body plane being developed by Comac. The UK company is pitching a derivative of the Trent 7000 turbine for that aircraft, which is also the only option on the A330neo.

China is set to become the world’s biggest plane market next decade and will need almost 8,000 aircraft worth $1.2 trillion over 20 years, according to Boeing estimates. President Xi Jinping has also earmarked aerospace as a priority industry, encouraging Western producers to set up shop in the country.

The A330neo -- abbreviated from new engine option -- assembly plant would add to an existing completion and delivery center for Airbus’ original A330, where planes get final touches before being shipped to the customers.

https://www.thenational.ae/business/aviation/airbus-weighs-making-its-newest-jet-in-china-to-win-orders-1.831951

CHRISBA35X wrote:

LH Group I could see - but I note LX just refurbed their five remaining A343s, and their A333s are all fairly new and very capable so if it is them the birds will be for OS and SN, perhaps Edelweiss but doubtful for LX mainline.

12 for SN, circa 12 for OS, six for WK would leave circa ten for LH mainline which I don't think is enough to replace all their A333s. Would Eurowings get any I wonder, outside the SN flying they do?

But I agree it is possible.

CHRISBA35X wrote:

LH Group I could see - but I note LX just refurbed their five remaining A343s, and their A333s are all fairly new and very capable so if it is them the birds will be for OS and SN, perhaps Edelweiss but doubtful for LX mainline.

12 for SN, circa 12 for OS, six for WK would leave circa ten for LH mainline which I don't think is enough to replace all their A333s. Would Eurowings get any I wonder, outside the SN flying they do?

But I agree it is possible.

PepeTheFrog wrote:

Baldr wrote:

majano wrote:

So, would it have been better if the conversation stopped as soon as someone mentioned the name of China? I am not sure I understand where this is going given that most A-Net discussions are about speculation.

Quite a few a.netters seem to be unable to fathom that the A330-900 is turning out to be highly competitive with the 787-9. Therefore, they seem to believe that only China will be bulk buying A330neos, for political reasons, going forward. However, if China is going to be bulk buying A330neos -- say, 200+ units -- Airbus will very likely set up an A330neo FAL in Tianjin*.

IMJ, the firm order for 40 A330-900s is very likely from Emirates. The first aircraft can be delivered as early as mid 2021.

*Airbus is looking at assembling its newest A330neo wide-body jet in China as part of a bid to win orders for the plane in one of the world’s fastest-growing aviation markets, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

Airbus may expand its existing plant in Tianjin to accommodate the model, but a decision has not been made with the business case yet to be established, said the people, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private. The plan may not go ahead, they cautioned.

A spokesman for Airbus declined to comment.

Airbus previously offered to build its A380 superjumbo in China in exchange for orders from the country’s airlines, but that pitch was rejected amid concerns about the double-decker plane’s suitability for the local market, according to two of the people. The smaller, more fuel-efficient A330neo is potentially a better fit, with more than 200 of the original-generation model already sold in the Asian nation.

The move to extend the Tianjin plant -- which currently assembles Airbus’ single-aisle A320 workhorse -- comes as Rolls-Royce is said to be offering to establish a Chinese plant to secure an engine deal for the wide-body plane being developed by Comac. The UK company is pitching a derivative of the Trent 7000 turbine for that aircraft, which is also the only option on the A330neo.

China is set to become the world’s biggest plane market next decade and will need almost 8,000 aircraft worth $1.2 trillion over 20 years, according to Boeing estimates. President Xi Jinping has also earmarked aerospace as a priority industry, encouraging Western producers to set up shop in the country.

The A330neo -- abbreviated from new engine option -- assembly plant would add to an existing completion and delivery center for Airbus’ original A330, where planes get final touches before being shipped to the customers.

https://www.thenational.ae/business/aviation/airbus-weighs-making-its-newest-jet-in-china-to-win-orders-1.831951

Actually, Airbus already has an A330 cabin fit facility in Tianjin and it can handle the NEO too.

So if the 40 unit order is from China, it might as well be political driven to keep the facility running.

outoftheice wrote:

My guess is it is for AC to replace the 767s at Rouge, the small number of 767s remaining at mainline and the hodge podge of 330 leases Air Canada has added to its fleet in the few years. That would pretty much bang on 40 aircraft and the timing is right, especially when it comes to replacing the Rouge fleet.

GlobalAirways wrote:

China... for sure.