Unknown customer ordered a huge amount of A330 NEO aircraft (40 units) at the end of 2019.

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html



Who could it be?

Probably a leasing company?

The fact that it is 40 widebodies narrows down the potential buyer list to maybe 10-15 possible airlines.

Perhaps it is Delta throwing in the towel on NMA and beginning to execute on a replacement strategy for 767s? Not sure why they wouldn't want it disclosed though.

The only other existing A339 customer that could potentially have the scale and ambition to order 40 A339s would be AirAsia. So it is probably either Delta, AirAsia, a leasing company, or a new operator of the type.

DocLightning wrote:

Probably a leasing company?

Too much metal. Leasing companies normally order smaller batches.

I'll thought there would be a few more before the end of the year.

Airplane of the Year 1994 will live on with her new engines.

Massive win for Airbus. Pushes the A330neo total orders, ahead of the 777X in the battle of the refreshed WBs.

ethernal wrote:

The fact that it is 40 widebodies narrows down the potential buyer list to maybe 10-15 possible airlines.

Perhaps it is Delta throwing in the towel on NMA and beginning to execute on a replacement strategy for 767s? Not sure why they wouldn't want it disclosed though.

The only other existing A339 customer that could potentially have the scale and ambition to order 40 A339s would be AirAsia. So it is probably either Delta, AirAsia, a leasing company, or a new operator of the type.

Didn't Delta do this same thing with their last A339 order (confirm it later)?

ethernal wrote:

The fact that it is 40 widebodies narrows down the potential buyer list to maybe 10-15 possible airlines.

Perhaps it is Delta throwing in the towel on NMA and beginning to execute on a replacement strategy for 767s? Not sure why they wouldn't want it disclosed though.

The only other existing A339 customer that could potentially have the scale and ambition to order 40 A339s would be AirAsia. So it is probably either Delta, AirAsia, a leasing company, or a new operator of the type.

My guess is China since they order in big batches and they don’t list the individual airlines till delivery.

Airbus really had an excellent 2019!

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Delta28L wrote:

My guess is China since they order in big batches and they don’t list the individual airlines till delivery.

I think China is in no position to take more widebody aircraft right now. The biggest airline, Hainan, is getting rid of its A350 and 787 orders. They ordered too many aircraft.

Or the Chinese.

Congrats to Airbus. The A330 is an amazing aircraft from a passenger’s perspective. It’s also liked by flight attendants.

If it was an American company like DL wouldn’t they be required to notify the SEC and investors immediately? I thought these “undisclosed” customers always meant non-US

PepeTheFrog wrote:

Unknown customer ordered a huge amount of A330 NEO aircraft (40 units) at the end of 2019.

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html



Who could it be?

How about UA..40 339 and 50 321XLR instead of 45 359s? Not likely but good 767 replacement and opens
door for top up order of 789/10's.

I'm going to guess United, for three reasons. First they're already on the board there for the A321XLR order, this could be an disclosed part of that order. Second they have 38 763s which while being recently nicely updated are getting old. They're 763 fleet ranges from 1991 to the three former Hawaiian birds which are 2002 and 2003 builds.

40 A330NEOs to replace 38 763s sounds right, two aircraft for growth.

Third Rolls Royce engines, a sticking point has been rumored to prevent them from getting out of the A350 deal.

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STT757 wrote:

I'm going to guess United, for two reasons. First they're already on the board there for the A321XLR order, this could be an disclosed part of that order, and second they have 38 763s which while being recently nicely updated are getting old. They're 763 fleet ranges from 1991 to the three former Hawaiian birds which are 2002 and 2003 builds.

40 A330NEOs to replace 38 763s sounds right, two aircraft for growth.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I thought they put some kind of life extension mod into the 763's, like they did with the A320's from the same period?

STT757 wrote:

I'm going to guess United, for two reasons. First they're already on the board there for the A321XLR order, this could be an disclosed part of that order, and second they have 38 763s which while being recently nicely updated are getting old. They're 763 fleet ranges from 1991 to the three former Hawaiian birds which are 2002 and 2003 builds.

40 A330NEOs to replace 38 763s sounds right, two aircraft for growth.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

That makes a lot of sense except the mission profile for the A339 is pretty duplicative to the 789. That said, I guess with crew commonality between the A350 and A330 it may make sense given that the 789 has longer legs (and, therefore, weight) than needed to replace the 767 fleet.

ethernal wrote:

STT757 wrote:

I'm going to guess United, for two reasons. First they're already on the board there for the A321XLR order, this could be an disclosed part of that order, and second they have 38 763s which while being recently nicely updated are getting old. They're 763 fleet ranges from 1991 to the three former Hawaiian birds which are 2002 and 2003 builds.

40 A330NEOs to replace 38 763s sounds right, two aircraft for growth.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

That makes a lot of sense except the mission profile for the A339 is pretty duplicative to the 789. That said, I guess with crew commonality between the A350 and A330 it may make sense given that the 789 has longer legs (and, therefore, weight) than needed to replace the 767 fleet.

And that would make UA the only airline in the world to operate a A330neo + 787 fleet.... which is extremely unlikely.

United seems unlikely, they have a large 787 fleet already.

DDR wrote:

Congrats to Airbus. The A330 is an amazing aircraft from a passenger’s perspective. It’s also liked by flight attendants.

Because I am genuinely curious can you please elaborate on the last part of your sentence as to why the neo is liked by flight crew? Is it the case for the 350 or 787 and if not would you happen to know why?

UA is not going to publicly announce order for A321XLRs, defer A350s, and then 3 weeks later secretly order 40 A330s.

DL is not going to suddenly order 40 new widebodies out of the blue without very publicly pitting Airbus and Boeing against each other. Their wide body follow up orders are not that extreme.

Polot wrote:

UA is not going to publicly announce order for A321XLRs, defer A350s, and then 3 weeks later secretly order 40 A330s.

DL is not going to suddenly order 40 new widebodies out of the blue without very publicly pitting Airbus and Boeing against each other. Their wide body follow up orders are not that extreme.

Delta is an opportunist buyer, which means you can sell them end of the line aircraft or aircraft with a bad history, or unusual configs, etc. So if airbus shot them a say 95 million dollar each offer, they would probably take it, besides delta is on record as wanting to grow internationally, and they have to know the NMA is not happening in the necessary time frame, so its possible.

flyby519 wrote:

If it was an American company like DL wouldn’t they be required to notify the SEC and investors immediately? I thought these “undisclosed” customers always meant non-US

Anybody know the U.S. SEC disclosure criteria for LOI vs. firm order? 'We're committing $7 Billion' is big enough to be material to everybody.

EK A330NEO on / off order on again? China, DL, UA, IAG? An A321 customer 'buying' earlier deliveries? A 787 customer with wind of MAX fallout spreading? A very brave / bullish leasing company? A smart airline that has worked out how to take advantage of CORSIA by combining NB flights? A freight variant?

1989worstyear wrote:

ethernal wrote:

The fact that it is 40 widebodies narrows down the potential buyer list to maybe 10-15 possible airlines.

Perhaps it is Delta throwing in the towel on NMA and beginning to execute on a replacement strategy for 767s? Not sure why they wouldn't want it disclosed though.

The only other existing A339 customer that could potentially have the scale and ambition to order 40 A339s would be AirAsia. So it is probably either Delta, AirAsia, a leasing company, or a new operator of the type.

Didn't Delta do this same thing with their last A339 order (confirm it later)?

Yes but that was a much smaller order. Behaving like this is a delta special, whenever there is an FAA filing that is due at noon delta releases at 11.59:30. if delta got an incredible price on this they might do it.

MIflyer12 wrote:

flyby519 wrote:

If it was an American company like DL wouldn’t they be required to notify the SEC and investors immediately? I thought these “undisclosed” customers always meant non-US

Anybody know the U.S. SEC disclosure criteria for LOI vs. firm order? 'We're committing $7 Billion' is big enough to be material to everybody.

https://www.sec.gov/rules/final/33-8400.htm
see footnote 39, the answer is it depends on exactly whats in the LOI, whether they have to announce it or not.

STT757 wrote:

I'm going to guess United, for three reasons. First they're already on the board there for the A321XLR order, this could be an disclosed part of that order. Second they have 38 763s which while being recently nicely updated are getting old. They're 763 fleet ranges from 1991 to the three former Hawaiian birds which are 2002 and 2003 builds.

40 A330NEOs to replace 38 763s sounds right, two aircraft for growth.

Third Rolls Royce engines, a sticking point has been rumored to prevent them from getting out of the A350 deal.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Every company on stock markets have to announce the firmed orders on day of signature post market...latest prior the stock market starts on next day. It is highly unlikely, it is UA.

40x A330-900....where we have seen a MoU this year, which later has been cancelled/swapped to a A350 order? Who have announced, that the original 40x A330-900 order is cancelled but also stated, that an A330 Neo order is still not excluded?
Emirates; is it possible, Emirates have additional ordered the A330-900?

Else I would as regular bet on China. Widebody orders are now pending for prolonged time, trade war with US is still ongoing... Chinese airlines will need some replacements in size of A330/B787, China has to order for their airlines.

Else with exception of Emirates and China, I do not know, which Airline will be able to order 40x widebodies at once and will not be forced by stock market rules to immediately announce it. Just remind, this is a firmed order, when it is in the listing, it has to be announced.

dstblj52 wrote:

Polot wrote:

UA is not going to publicly announce order for A321XLRs, defer A350s, and then 3 weeks later secretly order 40 A330s.

DL is not going to suddenly order 40 new widebodies out of the blue without very publicly pitting Airbus and Boeing against each other. Their wide body follow up orders are not that extreme.

Delta is an opportunist buyer, which means you can sell them end of the line aircraft or aircraft with a bad history, or unusual configs, etc.

Which does not describe the A330neo. Airbus is not that desperate to sell Neos at this time.

What about IndiGo as a possible customer?

China has the biggest A330 operators and a finishing/ retrofit center. Or Turkish, Saudi..

T4thH wrote:

STT757 wrote:

I'm going to guess United, for three reasons. First they're already on the board there for the A321XLR order, this could be an disclosed part of that order. Second they have 38 763s which while being recently nicely updated are getting old. They're 763 fleet ranges from 1991 to the three former Hawaiian birds which are 2002 and 2003 builds.

40 A330NEOs to replace 38 763s sounds right, two aircraft for growth.

Third Rolls Royce engines, a sticking point has been rumored to prevent them from getting out of the A350 deal.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Every company on stock markets have to announce the firmed orders on day of signature post market...latest prior the stock market starts on next day. It is highly unlikely, it is UA.

40x A330-900....where we have seen a MoU this year, which later has been cancelled/swapped to a A350 order? Who have announced, that the original 40x A330-900 order is cancelled but also stated, that an A330 Neo order is still not excluded?
Emirates; is it possible, Emirates have additional ordered the A330-900?

Else I would as regular bet on China. Widebody orders are now pending for prolonged time, trade war with US is still ongoing... Chinese airlines will need some replacements in size of A330/B787, China has to order for their airlines.

Else with exception of Emirates and China, I do not know, which Airline will be able to order 40x widebodies at once and will not be forced by stock market rules to immediately announce it. Just remind, this is a firmed order, when it is in the listing, it has to be announced.

your right if this is a firm order it has to be announced, but the SEC said that rule does not apply to LOI, unless they contain "material binding clauses".
However, if a company enters into a non-binding letter of intent or memorandum of understanding that also contains some binding, but non-material elements, such as a confidentiality agreement or a no-shop agreement, the letter or memorandum does not need to be filed because the binding provisions are not material
https://www.sec.gov/rules/final/33-8400.htm

dstblj52 wrote:

T4thH wrote:

STT757 wrote:

I'm going to guess United, for three reasons. First they're already on the board there for the A321XLR order, this could be an disclosed part of that order. Second they have 38 763s which while being recently nicely updated are getting old. They're 763 fleet ranges from 1991 to the three former Hawaiian birds which are 2002 and 2003 builds.

40 A330NEOs to replace 38 763s sounds right, two aircraft for growth.

Third Rolls Royce engines, a sticking point has been rumored to prevent them from getting out of the A350 deal.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Every company on stock markets have to announce the firmed orders on day of signature post market...latest prior the stock market starts on next day. It is highly unlikely, it is UA.

40x A330-900....where we have seen a MoU this year, which later has been cancelled/swapped to a A350 order? Who have announced, that the original 40x A330-900 order is cancelled but also stated, that an A330 Neo order is still not excluded?
Emirates; is it possible, Emirates have additional ordered the A330-900?

Else I would as regular bet on China. Widebody orders are now pending for prolonged time, trade war with US is still ongoing... Chinese airlines will need some replacements in size of A330/B787, China has to order for their airlines.

Else with exception of Emirates and China, I do not know, which Airline will be able to order 40x widebodies at once and will not be forced by stock market rules to immediately announce it. Just remind, this is a firmed order, when it is in the listing, it has to be announced.

your right if this is a firm order it has to be announced, but the SEC said that rule does not apply to LOI, unless they contain "material binding clauses".
However, if a company enters into a non-binding letter of intent or memorandum of understanding that also contains some binding, but non-material elements, such as a confidentiality agreement or a no-shop agreement, the letter or memorandum does not need to be filed because the binding provisions are not material
https://www.sec.gov/rules/final/33-8400.htm

This is a firm order. LOIs are not on Airbus’s orderbook.

dstblj52 wrote:

T4thH wrote:

STT757 wrote:

I'm going to guess United, for three reasons. First they're already on the board there for the A321XLR order, this could be an disclosed part of that order. Second they have 38 763s which while being recently nicely updated are getting old. They're 763 fleet ranges from 1991 to the three former Hawaiian birds which are 2002 and 2003 builds.

40 A330NEOs to replace 38 763s sounds right, two aircraft for growth.

Third Rolls Royce engines, a sticking point has been rumored to prevent them from getting out of the A350 deal.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Every company on stock markets have to announce the firmed orders on day of signature post market...latest prior the stock market starts on next day. It is highly unlikely, it is UA.

40x A330-900....where we have seen a MoU this year, which later has been cancelled/swapped to a A350 order? Who have announced, that the original 40x A330-900 order is cancelled but also stated, that an A330 Neo order is still not excluded?
Emirates; is it possible, Emirates have additional ordered the A330-900?

Else I would as regular bet on China. Widebody orders are now pending for prolonged time, trade war with US is still ongoing... Chinese airlines will need some replacements in size of A330/B787, China has to order for their airlines.

Else with exception of Emirates and China, I do not know, which Airline will be able to order 40x widebodies at once and will not be forced by stock market rules to immediately announce it. Just remind, this is a firmed order, when it is in the listing, it has to be announced.

your right if this is a firm order it has to be announced, but the SEC said that rule does not apply to LOI, unless they contain "material binding clauses".
However, if a company enters into a non-binding letter of intent or memorandum of understanding that also contains some binding, but non-material elements, such as a confidentiality agreement or a no-shop agreement, the letter or memorandum does not need to be filed because the binding provisions are not material
https://www.sec.gov/rules/final/33-8400.htm

Just remind, this is a firmed order, when it is in the listing, it has to be announced.

Only firmed orders are stated in the Airbus order log and the Airbus rules are really strict. So this order of 40x A330-900 is firmed and not a LoI or MoU eg.

T4thH wrote:

dstblj52 wrote:

T4thH wrote:

Every company on stock markets have to announce the firmed orders on day of signature post market...latest prior the stock market starts on next day. It is highly unlikely, it is UA.

40x A330-900....where we have seen a MoU this year, which later has been cancelled/swapped to a A350 order? Who have announced, that the original 40x A330-900 order is cancelled but also stated, that an A330 Neo order is still not excluded?
Emirates; is it possible, Emirates have additional ordered the A330-900?

Else I would as regular bet on China. Widebody orders are now pending for prolonged time, trade war with US is still ongoing... Chinese airlines will need some replacements in size of A330/B787, China has to order for their airlines.

Else with exception of Emirates and China, I do not know, which Airline will be able to order 40x widebodies at once and will not be forced by stock market rules to immediately announce it. Just remind, this is a firmed order, when it is in the listing, it has to be announced.

your right if this is a firm order it has to be announced, but the SEC said that rule does not apply to LOI, unless they contain "material binding clauses".
However, if a company enters into a non-binding letter of intent or memorandum of understanding that also contains some binding, but non-material elements, such as a confidentiality agreement or a no-shop agreement, the letter or memorandum does not need to be filed because the binding provisions are not material
https://www.sec.gov/rules/final/33-8400.htm

Just remind, this is a firmed order, when it is in the listing, it has to be announced.

Only firmed orders are stated in the Airbus order log and the Airbus rules are really strict. So this order of 40x A330-900 is firmed and not a LoI or MoU eg.

Okay did not know that thanks.

Might it be the long rumoured Ryanair transatlantic launch?

downdata wrote:

ethernal wrote:

STT757 wrote:

I'm going to guess United, for two reasons. First they're already on the board there for the A321XLR order, this could be an disclosed part of that order, and second they have 38 763s which while being recently nicely updated are getting old. They're 763 fleet ranges from 1991 to the three former Hawaiian birds which are 2002 and 2003 builds.

40 A330NEOs to replace 38 763s sounds right, two aircraft for growth.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

That makes a lot of sense except the mission profile for the A339 is pretty duplicative to the 789. That said, I guess with crew commonality between the A350 and A330 it may make sense given that the 789 has longer legs (and, therefore, weight) than needed to replace the 767 fleet.

And that would make UA the only airline in the world to operate a A330neo + 787 fleet.... which is extremely unlikely.

Wouldn't Virgin beat them to it?

My gut reaction was DL as well given the size of their existing A339 order. I also suppose that an argument could be made for SQ, given that they already have A333s...but I don't know if the 787-10 is meant as a 1:1 replacement for said A333 fleet. A339 could give them commonality. Would LH want A339s to replace their A333 fleet?

PepeTheFrog wrote:

Delta28L wrote:

My guess is China since they order in big batches and they don’t list the individual airlines till delivery.

I think China is in no position to take more widebody aircraft right now. The biggest airline, Hainan, is getting rid of its A350 and 787 orders. They ordered too many aircraft.

The big airlines are Air China, China Southern and China Eastern. All of them own heaps of A330ceo and seem to like them. I am pretty sure that we see orders out of that direction.

One of the new middle eastern low cost carriers like Flynas?

If it is United, then they haven't cancelled their A350 order, because the Dec O&D spreadsheet still shows them with 45 A359s on order. More importantly, a.net wouldn't be able to handle the meltdown if UA ordered 40 A339s without cancelling their A350s!

I also noticed that Airbus booked 33 additional A359 cancellations and I wondered if those might have been swapped for A330s, but the A350 cancellations are:

Hong Kong Airlines: -8
Undisclosed: -15
Synergy Aerospace Corp: -10

In fact, it looks as though Airbus has taken the opportunity to have a good clearout of the order book -

December cancellations:
A220-100: 10
A320neo: 70
A321ceo: 8
A321neo: 14
A330-200F: 1
A330-300: 4
A330-900: 2
A350-900: 33

Undoubted star of the year with 490 gross orders (476 net) was the A321neo.

PepeTheFrog wrote:

Delta28L wrote:

My guess is China since they order in big batches and they don’t list the individual airlines till delivery.

I think China is in no position to take more widebody aircraft right now. The biggest airline, Hainan, is getting rid of its A350 and 787 orders. They ordered too many aircraft.

Hainan have problems so no other Chinese carrier will order..... Ok

mjoelnir wrote:

PepeTheFrog wrote:

Delta28L wrote:

My guess is China since they order in big batches and they don’t list the individual airlines till delivery.

I think China is in no position to take more widebody aircraft right now. The biggest airline, Hainan, is getting rid of its A350 and 787 orders. They ordered too many aircraft.

The big airlines are Air China, China Southern and China Eastern. All of them own heaps of A330ceo and seem to like them. I am pretty sure that we see orders out of that direction.

I`m going for this one too , if not than Emirates

EMB170 wrote:

My gut reaction was DL as well given the size of their existing A339 order.

It's been asserted that Airbus doesn't include non-binding LOIs in orders. If it's firm, DL needed to disclose it. Two+ weeks have passed since Airbus' order date and DL has no relevant SEC filing, so I'll say it's not DL - with some confidence.

I think Chinese government, with allocations to specific carriers to be firmed later, is the right answer.

Hoping it's UAL!

scbriml wrote:

Undoubted star of the year with 490 gross orders (476 net) was the A321neo.

It was even better if you count the conversions, the order total grew from 2280 to 3255, that's +975 A321neo's in 1 year.


As for the 40x A330neo's, I would say that it's China, but I'm ready to be surprised.

Maybe THY. They are the biggest A-330 operator and might want to have a smaller widebody to replace them besides the 787 and A350. Something not mentioned yet: Cathay Pacific and Cathay Dragon have a sizeable combined A-330 fleet and especially on regional routes they might like to have something smaller than the 359.

I'm also going guess that this is for China. Interestingly China hasn't ordered any Boeing widebodies since 2017 due to the trade war. China Eastern and I think China Southern too are starting to have A330ceos come off lease, so the neo is a perfect low-risk replacement.

For a plane that certain a.netters insisted would never sell, the A330neo is getting a fairly decent orderbook!

scbriml wrote:

If it is United, then they haven't cancelled their A350 order, because the Dec O&D spreadsheet still shows them with 45 A359s on order. More importantly, a.net wouldn't be able to handle the meltdown if UA ordered 40 A339s without cancelling their A350s!

That would be one unhinged discussion thread I wonder how many people would write to their congressperson asking them to block the deal....

Can't help but hope it's something we'd never expect. Like an EU (U)LCC jumping into either high capacity short haul or even medium haul. On short haul especially in the current market where upgauging in frequency is getting more and more prohibitive due to constrained airports. One can't stop dreaming, can they?

Could it possibly be for CX? some of their A333s are getting ancient

jacobchoi wrote:

Could it possibly be for CX? some of their A333s are getting ancient

Given everything that's going on in Hong Kong at the moment and their current financial struggles, I can't see CX placing that large an order. But, they will need something to replace all those A330s at some point.