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Kronesian
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:03 pm

Re: OAG Changes 1/12/2020: UA Adds SMX-DEN/LAX/SFO, MKE-SFO; UP Adds FLL-GGT

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:38 am

usairways85 wrote:
During my few times looking at PHL-MCO / MLB flights, MLB was much higher compared to MCO that the extra ~1hr drive to MCO from where I was visiting wasn't an issue. I'm talking $200+ difference.


That is exactly it. Makes no sense to drop a huge amount when MCO is a short drive over. We need a LCC here to settle the pricing and make it actually realistic to fly from MLB.
KMLB
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 629
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

Re: OAG Changes 1/12/2020: UA Adds SMX-DEN/LAX/SFO, MKE-SFO; UP Adds FLL-GGT

Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:03 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
*AA MLB-PHL JUN 1.0>0.2[0.2] JUL 1.0>0.1[0.1] AUG 1.0>0.2[0.2] SEP 0.3>0.0[0] OCT 0.8>0.1[0.1]

I thought this route was good enough to warrant daily service. I guess AA saw low bookings or something to adjust the schedule

Wondering if they are rotating in the B752 on this route. Though you are probably right about the bookings.


YOY there is not a change. Normal seasonal service it seems. Who wants to go to Florida in the middle of summer anyway?
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 629
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

Re: OAG Changes 1/12/2020: UA Adds SMX-DEN/LAX/SFO, MKE-SFO; UP Adds FLL-GGT

Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:07 pm

jplatts wrote:
enilria wrote:
Given NK is big in both BWI and DFW surprising this doesn't work better
*NK BWI-DFW MAR 1.0>0.7[1.0] APR 1.0>0.3[1.0]


WN already serves both BWI and DCA in the Baltimore/DC market nonstop from DAL. There are also some travelers in both the BWI/DCA/IAD and DFW/DAL markets who will avoid NK at all costs.

In addition to WN and NK serving the BWI/DCA/IAD market nonstop from Dallas, AA also already serves BWI, DCA, and IAD nonstop from its DFW hub, and UA also already serves its IAD hub nonstop from DFW.


This is probably a more business heavy route. If you are travelling on the company's dime, are you going to fly NK? Even if I am paying, I wouldn't touch NK with a (insert any # here) foot poll. NK is only good for leisure travel.
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 629
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

Re: OAG Changes 1/12/2020: UA Adds SMX-DEN/LAX/SFO, MKE-SFO; UP Adds FLL-GGT

Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:40 pm

enilria wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Thanks enilria. FYI for the * beside AA’s YVR-ORD, I believe that route has always been seasonal. Looks like they’re reverting to last summer’s termination of Labour Day weekend instead of extending to October.

Separately, great to see DL increase YOW-LGA to 3x capitalizing on UA ending YOW-EWR, leaving only AC on the route.

I wonder when/if DL will ever bring back YOW-ATL? YOW has got to be the largest airport in eastern North America without ATL nonstops.

MLB-PHL also flat YOY, but still a big drop vs what they had said was the plan.
Thanks too!

Midwestindy wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

What's up with the May AA cuts?


I haven't gotten an explanation on this, so initially AA said the cuts were because of runway construction, that construction is now over. The other excuse is the Boeing 737 Max grounding, but most of these routes are on E140s most of which aren't picking up slack for the grounded aircraft, right?

I have done a lot of research on this with some of the insiders on this thread through PM.

-Basically JFK sucks for AA.
-They are not ready to just drop out.
-They are holding their slots their using the MAX grounding as a loophole.
-The other carriers have considered complaining but aren’t because they are afraid if the slot usage rules are tightened they could themselves lose slots due to things like weather and such. So as of now nobody has complained.
-I would argue that a consumer group should complain.
-The FAA isn’t doing anything because they are happy to see the reduced use for Positive delay impact.
-AA basically did what is called a waterfall swap to turn E140 flying into MAXs. That’s where you trade planes of slightly smaller size until the smallest plane at the bottom gets the flight cut completely. Imagine a stair step waterfall.
-Most people outside AA think that AA will attempt to sell or trade the slots when the MAX is approved.


Slot trade gets us all excited!! I would see AA trading with JetBlue for slots at both DCA and LGA. B6 could divest a few of its non-BOS DCA slots (SJU, NAS, RSW, MVY, ACK, PBI) and pick up more slots at JFK and end service all together at LGA, finally consolidating fully at JFK.

Could Frontier also maybe be interested in offering its two out of perimeter slot pairs at DCA for a premium to AA? They could either increase service to daily at BWI for cheap fares or add more frequencies to IAD where they already have a couple of additional destinations. All other ULCCs have exited DC, so I wouldn't be surprised if F9 seizes the opportunity to exit as well. They are the last one standing after Sun Country and Spirit both left. Perhaps then F9 can add SEA service at IAD to enter the battle for Amazon HQ2 flying.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3719
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: OAG Changes 1/12/2020: UA Adds SMX-DEN/LAX/SFO, MKE-SFO; UP Adds FLL-GGT

Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:50 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
Could Frontier also maybe be interested in offering its two out of perimeter slot pairs at DCA for a premium to AA? They could either increase service to daily at BWI for cheap fares or add more frequencies to IAD where they already have a couple of additional destinations. All other ULCCs have exited DC, so I wouldn't be surprised if F9 seizes the opportunity to exit as well. They are the last one standing after Sun Country and Spirit both left. Perhaps then F9 can add SEA service at IAD to enter the battle for Amazon HQ2 flying.


WN adding DEN-DCA nonstop service is also a possibility if WN can acquire a beyond-perimeter slot exemption that can be used on the DEN-DCA nonstop route. WN also already has a significant presence in both the DC and Denver markets to support DEN-DCA nonstop service, and there is also a significant amount of passengers connecting to DCA from beyond-perimeter destinations in the Western U.S. WN has also stated that it wants to significantly expand its presence at DEN.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: OAG Changes 1/12/2020: UA Adds SMX-DEN/LAX/SFO, MKE-SFO; UP Adds FLL-GGT

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:25 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
HVNandrew wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

Going 5x and now all mainline? Yeah, looks like Virginia Ave is expecting B6 to enter the market this year.

Especially considering DL isn't flying any mainline on markets like CVG-LGA this summer.

I have always found CVG-BOS to be interesting though. Even when DL was seriously reducing service and pulling most mainline out of CVG several years ago, that route always kept at least 1-2 daily mainline flights. I'm guessing it has always been a solid performer and it's a CVG route that DL is still willing to defend.

What's crazy is that with whats loaded now as 5x 717 on CVG-BOS, they will have more seats per day than to hubs in DTW, MSP, or LGA.
Basically the only DL market from CVG that will have more seats per day than BOS is ATL.
I doubt their is another city in the network other than CVG where BOS is the #2 market in terms of daily seats.
Frankly, I'd be surprised if this sticks at this frequency at all 717s. 5x CR9 I can see, 5x is a huge influx of seats into the market.


With the significantly higher transatlantic lift DL is offering out of BOS this summer, I would assume that part of the plan is to beef up potential feeder markets like CVG that also have strong local O&D. For CVG-based travelers looking to go to DUB, the UK, LIS, AMS, or FCO, DL might as well have them connect through BOS rather than JFK. Same goes for the likes of IND, CLE, CMH, BNA, RDU, and PIT. That helps support the additional BOS lift while allowing the JFK flights to handle more O&D traffic, as well as connecting traffic from markets without BOS service (PDX, SAN, PHX, DEN, SAT, IAH, etc.) and to transatlantic markets only served through JFK (SNN, GLA, NCE, CPH, PRG, ATH, TLV, BOM, etc.).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8173
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: OAG Changes 1/12/2020: UA Adds SMX-DEN/LAX/SFO, MKE-SFO; UP Adds FLL-GGT

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:31 pm

That;s a good point, I didn't realize that DL was operating 4-6x in many of those markets like IND, CLE, CMH, BNA, RDU, PIT. Makes sense to beef-up CVG to 5x as most of the other markets already do. RDU-BOS is loaded at 6x for summer 3x-E75, 3x-717
 
tphuang
Posts: 5354
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: OAG Changes 1/12/2020: UA Adds SMX-DEN/LAX/SFO, MKE-SFO; UP Adds FLL-GGT

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:20 pm

FSDan wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
HVNandrew wrote:
Especially considering DL isn't flying any mainline on markets like CVG-LGA this summer.

I have always found CVG-BOS to be interesting though. Even when DL was seriously reducing service and pulling most mainline out of CVG several years ago, that route always kept at least 1-2 daily mainline flights. I'm guessing it has always been a solid performer and it's a CVG route that DL is still willing to defend.

What's crazy is that with whats loaded now as 5x 717 on CVG-BOS, they will have more seats per day than to hubs in DTW, MSP, or LGA.
Basically the only DL market from CVG that will have more seats per day than BOS is ATL.
I doubt their is another city in the network other than CVG where BOS is the #2 market in terms of daily seats.
Frankly, I'd be surprised if this sticks at this frequency at all 717s. 5x CR9 I can see, 5x is a huge influx of seats into the market.


With the significantly higher transatlantic lift DL is offering out of BOS this summer, I would assume that part of the plan is to beef up potential feeder markets like CVG that also have strong local O&D. For CVG-based travelers looking to go to DUB, the UK, LIS, AMS, or FCO, DL might as well have them connect through BOS rather than JFK. Same goes for the likes of IND, CLE, CMH, BNA, RDU, and PIT. That helps support the additional BOS lift while allowing the JFK flights to handle more O&D traffic, as well as connecting traffic from markets without BOS service (PDX, SAN, PHX, DEN, SAT, IAH, etc.) and to transatlantic markets only served through JFK (SNN, GLA, NCE, CPH, PRG, ATH, TLV, BOM, etc.).


Aside from MAN, what additional market did they add out of BOS that was no already served this summer on their own metals or JV? I can't think of any. Sure they beefed up their schedule to London and Paris, but I seriously doubt that 1 additional flight to CVG is aimed at that. Also most of their TATL flights out of BOS are at late evenings, which pretty much makes most of the daytime flights undesirable for connection.

This seems to just be beefing schedule out of BOS in a market that they can get good return on. They've done increases/decreases to other markets this summer. Nothing different here.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: OAG Changes 1/12/2020: UA Adds SMX-DEN/LAX/SFO, MKE-SFO; UP Adds FLL-GGT

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:24 pm

tphuang wrote:
FSDan wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
What's crazy is that with whats loaded now as 5x 717 on CVG-BOS, they will have more seats per day than to hubs in DTW, MSP, or LGA.
Basically the only DL market from CVG that will have more seats per day than BOS is ATL.
I doubt their is another city in the network other than CVG where BOS is the #2 market in terms of daily seats.
Frankly, I'd be surprised if this sticks at this frequency at all 717s. 5x CR9 I can see, 5x is a huge influx of seats into the market.


With the significantly higher transatlantic lift DL is offering out of BOS this summer, I would assume that part of the plan is to beef up potential feeder markets like CVG that also have strong local O&D. For CVG-based travelers looking to go to DUB, the UK, LIS, AMS, or FCO, DL might as well have them connect through BOS rather than JFK. Same goes for the likes of IND, CLE, CMH, BNA, RDU, and PIT. That helps support the additional BOS lift while allowing the JFK flights to handle more O&D traffic, as well as connecting traffic from markets without BOS service (PDX, SAN, PHX, DEN, SAT, IAH, etc.) and to transatlantic markets only served through JFK (SNN, GLA, NCE, CPH, PRG, ATH, TLV, BOM, etc.).


Aside from MAN, what additional market did they add out of BOS that was no already served this summer on their own metals or JV? I can't think of any. Sure they beefed up their schedule to London and Paris, but I seriously doubt that 1 additional flight to CVG is aimed at that. Also most of their TATL flights out of BOS are at late evenings, which pretty much makes most of the daytime flights undesirable for connection.

This seems to just be beefing schedule out of BOS in a market that they can get good return on. They've done increases/decreases to other markets this summer. Nothing different here.


FCO.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5354
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: OAG Changes 1/12/2020: UA Adds SMX-DEN/LAX/SFO, MKE-SFO; UP Adds FLL-GGT

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:30 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
FSDan wrote:

With the significantly higher transatlantic lift DL is offering out of BOS this summer, I would assume that part of the plan is to beef up potential feeder markets like CVG that also have strong local O&D. For CVG-based travelers looking to go to DUB, the UK, LIS, AMS, or FCO, DL might as well have them connect through BOS rather than JFK. Same goes for the likes of IND, CLE, CMH, BNA, RDU, and PIT. That helps support the additional BOS lift while allowing the JFK flights to handle more O&D traffic, as well as connecting traffic from markets without BOS service (PDX, SAN, PHX, DEN, SAT, IAH, etc.) and to transatlantic markets only served through JFK (SNN, GLA, NCE, CPH, PRG, ATH, TLV, BOM, etc.).


Aside from MAN, what additional market did they add out of BOS that was no already served this summer on their own metals or JV? I can't think of any. Sure they beefed up their schedule to London and Paris, but I seriously doubt that 1 additional flight to CVG is aimed at that. Also most of their TATL flights out of BOS are at late evenings, which pretty much makes most of the daytime flights undesirable for connection.

This seems to just be beefing schedule out of BOS in a market that they can get good return on. They've done increases/decreases to other markets this summer. Nothing different here.


FCO.

Alitalia already flies that.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: OAG Changes 1/12/2020: UA Adds SMX-DEN/LAX/SFO, MKE-SFO; UP Adds FLL-GGT

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:58 pm

tphuang wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Aside from MAN, what additional market did they add out of BOS that was no already served this summer on their own metals or JV? I can't think of any. Sure they beefed up their schedule to London and Paris, but I seriously doubt that 1 additional flight to CVG is aimed at that. Also most of their TATL flights out of BOS are at late evenings, which pretty much makes most of the daytime flights undesirable for connection.

This seems to just be beefing schedule out of BOS in a market that they can get good return on. They've done increases/decreases to other markets this summer. Nothing different here.


FCO.

Alitalia already flies that.


I'm talking not only about new markets but about upgauges. If we ignore DL's new 2nd daily BOS-CDG flight since CVG already has a nonstop (although realistically some of the lower fare CVG traffic might get routed to the new BOS-CDG), there's still DUB upgauged from 763->333, MAN (new, 752), LGW (new, 752), and FCO (new, 333). That's upwards of 600 extra seats daily DL is adding into the BOS-Europe market when compared with last summer, and I bet you it's not going to be 100% O&D.

Obviously not all of the added CVG-BOS seats will connect well to these flights, hence why I said part of the plan, and reiterated CVG-BOS's strong local demand as well.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5354
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: OAG Changes 1/12/2020: UA Adds SMX-DEN/LAX/SFO, MKE-SFO; UP Adds FLL-GGT

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:38 pm

FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

FCO.

Alitalia already flies that.


I'm talking not only about new markets but about upgauges. If we ignore DL's new 2nd daily BOS-CDG flight since CVG already has a nonstop (although realistically some of the lower fare CVG traffic might get routed to the new BOS-CDG), there's still DUB upgauged from 763->333, MAN (new, 752), LGW (new, 752), and FCO (new, 333). That's upwards of 600 extra seats daily DL is adding into the BOS-Europe market when compared with last summer, and I bet you it's not going to be 100% O&D.

Obviously not all of the added CVG-BOS seats will connect well to these flights, hence why I said part of the plan, and reiterated CVG-BOS's strong local demand as well.

except that these adds look to be year round whereas those new TATL flights are very seasonal. In fact, most of the domestic business market are getting constant schedules throughout the year from DL, which would be a direct counter to the assertion you are making. You are basically making the point that a year round decision is made based on supporting seasonal action. As for the added BOS-Europe capacity, that's how people in Boston are getting some really great deals in J to Europe this summer. Numerous people have reported in in the Boston thread.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2853
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: OAG Changes 1/12/2020: UA Adds SMX-DEN/LAX/SFO, MKE-SFO; UP Adds FLL-GGT

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:11 pm

FSDan wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
HVNandrew wrote:
Especially considering DL isn't flying any mainline on markets like CVG-LGA this summer.

I have always found CVG-BOS to be interesting though. Even when DL was seriously reducing service and pulling most mainline out of CVG several years ago, that route always kept at least 1-2 daily mainline flights. I'm guessing it has always been a solid performer and it's a CVG route that DL is still willing to defend.

What's crazy is that with whats loaded now as 5x 717 on CVG-BOS, they will have more seats per day than to hubs in DTW, MSP, or LGA.
Basically the only DL market from CVG that will have more seats per day than BOS is ATL.
I doubt their is another city in the network other than CVG where BOS is the #2 market in terms of daily seats.
Frankly, I'd be surprised if this sticks at this frequency at all 717s. 5x CR9 I can see, 5x is a huge influx of seats into the market.


With the significantly higher transatlantic lift DL is offering out of BOS this summer, I would assume that part of the plan is to beef up potential feeder markets like CVG that also have strong local O&D. For CVG-based travelers looking to go to DUB, the UK, LIS, AMS, or FCO, DL might as well have them connect through BOS rather than JFK. Same goes for the likes of IND, CLE, CMH, BNA, RDU, and PIT. That helps support the additional BOS lift while allowing the JFK flights to handle more O&D traffic, as well as connecting traffic from markets without BOS service (PDX, SAN, PHX, DEN, SAT, IAH, etc.) and to transatlantic markets only served through JFK (SNN, GLA, NCE, CPH, PRG, ATH, TLV, BOM, etc.).


Now that BA will be flying PDX-LHR year-round, if DL’s seasonal PDX-LHR takes too much of a hit, I wonder whether they’d consider moving this seasonal slot to CVG? It seems as if the days of cutting CVG are over.

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