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LAXintl
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Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:05 pm

This entire thread seems rather odd.

The OPer asked what TLC is about.

It’s Mexico’s 5th busiest airport with nearly 300 daily movements. It’s base for much of the countries corporate and GA fleet along with use by freight operators like FedEx and UPS.

The fact that commercial air service has largely failed at TLC does not mean airport is a failure or under utilized. It’s quite an active field and plays an important place in Mexican aviation.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
hpff
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:20 am

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:58 pm

LAXintl wrote:
This entire thread seems rather odd.

The OPer asked what TLC is about.

It’s Mexico’s 5th busiest airport with nearly 300 daily movements. It’s base for much of the countries corporate and GA fleet along with use by freight operators like FedEx and UPS.

The fact that commercial air service has largely failed at TLC does not mean airport is a failure or under utilized. It’s quite an active field and plays an important place in Mexican aviation.


The OPer has also been here less than a week, has only opened up threads which ask general questions about airports, and then goes on to criticise their level of service or infrastructure investments while refusing to listen to reason, and it's where the Venezuelan government or Conviasa is involved. I like having discussions about different places, but it's getting disruptive.
 
georgiabill
Posts: 1222
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:53 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:00 am

I was hoping to see a thread open that discussed airlines and airports in Mexico.
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:00 am

LAXintl wrote:
This entire thread seems rather odd.

The OPer asked what TLC is about.

It’s Mexico’s 5th busiest airport with nearly 300 daily movements. It’s base for much of the countries corporate and GA fleet along with use by freight operators like FedEx and UPS.

The fact that commercial air service has largely failed at TLC does not mean airport is a failure or under utilized. It’s quite an active field and plays an important place in Mexican aviation.


Ok, so TLC is fully operational and its presence is completely justified.
I guess that then we can close this post.
AP
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
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Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:02 am

georgiabill wrote:
I was hoping to see a thread open that discussed airlines and airports in Mexico.


Thank you!

So in the end, It is not as off topic as others may want to point out.

Cheers!

AP
Last edited by Alejo6 on Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
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Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:06 am

hpff wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
This entire thread seems rather odd.

The OPer asked what TLC is about.

It’s Mexico’s 5th busiest airport with nearly 300 daily movements. It’s base for much of the countries corporate and GA fleet along with use by freight operators like FedEx and UPS.

The fact that commercial air service has largely failed at TLC does not mean airport is a failure or under utilized. It’s quite an active field and plays an important place in Mexican aviation.


The OPer has also been here less than a week, has only opened up threads which ask general questions about airports, and then goes on to criticise their level of service or infrastructure investments while refusing to listen to reason, and it's where the Venezuelan government or Conviasa is involved. I like having discussions about different places, but it's getting disruptive.

Don't worry, it's the last time you see a post from me. Looks like it's better to be for years around here and have a couple dozen posts than being an active member in the forum.
Go back to discuss xxx airline new livery or whatever hot topic is around a.net.
 
Gregd75
Posts: 32
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Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:27 am

Aeromexico can’t seem to make any flights successful out of TLC.

If they can make a daily MTY - PUE work, surely is says something that they just cant make TLC stick. Ive always thought that was strange.

I guess there just isn’t the traffic needed to get new routes to succeed.
 
santi319
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:43 am

Gregd75 wrote:
Aeromexico can’t seem to make any flights successful out of TLC.

If they can make a daily MTY - PUE work, surely is says something that they just cant make TLC stick. Ive always thought that was strange.

I guess there just isn’t the traffic needed to get new routes to succeed.

The airport management was probably very bad.


For example it was the only Mexican Airport Ive ever been at that had immigration on an outbound international flight... like why??? And who is paying for that...
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
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Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:52 am

Gregd75 wrote:
Aeromexico can’t seem to make any flights successful out of TLC.

If they can make a daily MTY - PUE work, surely is says something that they just cant make TLC stick. Ive always thought that was strange.

I guess there just isn’t the traffic needed to get new routes to succeed.


Thank you for adding insighful content to this post.
My understanding is that a commercial airline will leave more much of revenue than a private airline, as each pax has to pay an incoming tax.
So, for the sake of the argument, if an airliner brings 100 pax, and each pays a 5$ departure tax, the aiport cashes 500$ for that flight.
If a private flight with 5 people (say pilot, copilot and three pax), it will leave the airport 25 bucks.
So, you would need 20 flights like this to make up for a single commercial flight.
Nonetheless, MEX surpasses TLC in aircraft movements by a 5:1 ratio.
Also cargo, which is often quoted as a great move for TLC, but it has an almost 20:1 ratio to MEX in terms of movements. Its cargo business is similar in terms of movements to that of CUN, which is a tourist oriented, not cargo related airport in nature.
But the geniuses and illuminati around here are perfectly sure that TLC is safe and sound, enjoying great health.
Seems like they just got out of the Board of Director's meeting with TLC's Financial sheet under their arm.
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:58 am

santi319 wrote:
Gregd75 wrote:
Aeromexico can’t seem to make any flights successful out of TLC.

If they can make a daily MTY - PUE work, surely is says something that they just cant make TLC stick. Ive always thought that was strange.

I guess there just isn’t the traffic needed to get new routes to succeed.

The airport management was probably very bad.


For example it was the only Mexican Airport Ive ever been at that had immigration on an outbound international flight... like why??? And who is paying for that...

Thank you for adding meaningful, relevant input to this post.
That's the whole point I've been trying to rise in this post. Seems like poor management choices have taken TLC to a no good situation, besides all the technicalities that surround the airport.
But the knows-it-all around here think otherwise. They are sure that TLC is thriving. Wonder why they don't buy a parcel nearby, as the zone will for sure gain value in the near future due to the increased prosperity that TLC will bring to Toluca and its inhabitants because of its incredible GA & Cargo performance...
AP
 
rabader
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:11 pm

Alejo6 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
This entire thread seems rather odd.

The OPer asked what TLC is about.

It’s Mexico’s 5th busiest airport with nearly 300 daily movements. It’s base for much of the countries corporate and GA fleet along with use by freight operators like FedEx and UPS.

The fact that commercial air service has largely failed at TLC does not mean airport is a failure or under utilized. It’s quite an active field and plays an important place in Mexican aviation.


Ok, so TLC is fully operational and its presence is completely justified.
I guess that then we can close this post.
AP


It may be not the flashiest use but having all the private aviation use TLC instead of MEX is pretty important in terms of slots.

Alejo6 wrote:
Thank you for adding meaningful, relevant input to this post.
That's the whole point I've been trying to rise in this post. Seems like poor management choices have taken TLC to a no good situation, besides all the technicalities that surround the airport.
But the knows-it-all around here think otherwise. They are sure that TLC is thriving. Wonder why they don't buy a parcel nearby, as the zone will for sure gain value in the near future due to the increased prosperity that TLC will bring to Toluca and its inhabitants because of its incredible GA & Cargo performance...
AP


You can't have it both ways, the same management that brought the 4 million pax in 2010 is largely the same management nowadays. The fall in TLC pax is not entirely related to TLC itself.

Alejo6 wrote:
Also cargo, which is often quoted as a great move for TLC, but it has an almost 20:1 ratio to MEX in terms of movements. Its cargo business is similar in terms of movements to that of CUN, which is a tourist oriented, not cargo related airport in nature.
But the geniuses and illuminati around here are perfectly sure that TLC is safe and sound, enjoying great health.
Seems like they just got out of the Board of Director's meeting with TLC's Financial sheet under their arm.


Again TLC is at high altitude and sometimes large cargo aircraft have to fly with a restricted payload. Also, you can't see TLC in a vacuum, QRO a newer airport (2002) has already surpassed TLC in cargo because it is better located to serve as an alternative to MEX cargo-wise.
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:36 pm

rabader wrote:
Alejo6 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
This entire thread seems rather odd.

The OPer asked what TLC is about.

It’s Mexico’s 5th busiest airport with nearly 300 daily movements. It’s base for much of the countries corporate and GA fleet along with use by freight operators like FedEx and UPS.

The fact that commercial air service has largely failed at TLC does not mean airport is a failure or under utilized. It’s quite an active field and plays an important place in Mexican aviation.


Ok, so TLC is fully operational and its presence is completely justified.
I guess that then we can close this post.
AP


It may be not the flashiest use but having all the private aviation use TLC instead of MEX is pretty important in terms of slots.

Alejo6 wrote:
Thank you for adding meaningful, relevant input to this post.
That's the whole point I've been trying to rise in this post. Seems like poor management choices have taken TLC to a no good situation, besides all the technicalities that surround the airport.
But the knows-it-all around here think otherwise. They are sure that TLC is thriving. Wonder why they don't buy a parcel nearby, as the zone will for sure gain value in the near future due to the increased prosperity that TLC will bring to Toluca and its inhabitants because of its incredible GA & Cargo performance...
AP


You can't have it both ways, the same management that brought the 4 million pax in 2010 is largely the same management nowadays. The fall in TLC pax is not entirely related to TLC itself.

Alejo6 wrote:
Also cargo, which is often quoted as a great move for TLC, but it has an almost 20:1 ratio to MEX in terms of movements. Its cargo business is similar in terms of movements to that of CUN, which is a tourist oriented, not cargo related airport in nature.
But the geniuses and illuminati around here are perfectly sure that TLC is safe and sound, enjoying great health.
Seems like they just got out of the Board of Director's meeting with TLC's Financial sheet under their arm.

Again TLC is at high altitude and sometimes large cargo aircraft have to fly with a restricted payload. Also, you can't see TLC in a vacuum, QRO a newer airport (2002) has already surpassed TLC in cargo because it is better located to serve as an alternative to MEX cargo-wise.

Ok, then is not the best for cargo, definetly not the best for commercial aviation, and using it only for GA is like having a Ferrari to take the kids to school, given its size and technology, that besides the point that was needed due to altitude and such, still is costly to mantain. What would you do with TLC?
 
rabader
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:18 pm

Alejo6 wrote:
Ok, then is not the best for cargo, definetly not the best for commercial aviation, and using it only for GA is like having a Ferrari to take the kids to school, given its size and technology, that besides the point that was needed due to altitude and such, still is costly to mantain. What would you do with TLC?


I wouldn't say a Ferrari, that would be the case of Mirabel in Montreal. This would be like driving your kids to school when the school is within walking distance.

Now, where does TLC stand today? The airport is own 49% by private people and 51% by the government (26 state and 25 federal). The federal government is buying the private part. AMLO's airport plan is to use three airports to satisfy the demand in Mexico City including TLC. So I suppose the government will give big fiscal incentives for airlines to fly from there.
Image

Also for a couple of years, it has been under construction a train connecting Mexico City with Toluca and there will be a station 5 km away from the airport. This train will be connected with the subway network of Mexico City. This will improve the connectivity from and to the airport. This will be ready in 2021 or 2022
Image

And finally, there are some far-fetched plans to build a second runway. I don't they're serious about it but I share you a link.
https://www.bnamericas.com/en/interview ... -lie-ahead
Last edited by rabader on Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:26 pm

rabader wrote:
Alejo6 wrote:
Ok, then is not the best for cargo, definetly not the best for commercial aviation, and using it only for GA is like having a Ferrari to take the kids to school, given its size and technology, that besides the point that was needed due to altitude and such, still is costly to mantain. What would you do with TLC?


I wouldn't say a Ferrari, that would be the case of Mirabel in Montreal. This would be like driving your kids to school when the school is within walking distance.

Now, where does TLC stand today? The airport is own 49% by private people and 51% by the government (26 state and 25 federal). The federal government is buying the private part. AMLO's airport plan is to use three airports to satisfy the demand in Mexico City including TLC. So I suppose the government will give big fiscal incentives for airlines to fly from there.
Image

Also for a couple of years, it has been under construction a train connecting Mexico City with Toluca and there will be a station 5 km away from the airport. This train will be connected with the subway network of Mexico City. This will improve the connectivity from and to the airport. This will be ready in 2021 or 2022
Image

And finally, there are some far-fetched plans to build a second runway. I don't they're serious about it but I share you a link.
https://www.bnamericas.com/en/interview ... -lie-ahead

Ok, so something is being done in order to reactivate it and better take advatange of it so it will serve better to its scope.
Thanks a lot for sharing such extensive, comprehensive information. This clearly tackles the point that something was needed to be done, as current state of affairs wasn't anything near ideal.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2850
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:15 pm

rabader wrote:
Also for a couple of years, it has been under construction a train connecting Mexico City with Toluca and there will be a station 5 km away from the airport. This train will be connected with the subway network of Mexico City. This will improve the connectivity from and to the airport. This will be ready in 2021 or 2022
Image
Well, if TLC airport does get a shuttle-bus to ”its station” on the new train line between Mexico City and Toluca, it could possibly attract some kind of commercial service.
If TLC was in Europe with that kind of rail-link, FR and W6 would surely be looking to serve it. :)
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2445
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:17 pm

I wondering whether TLC airport provides its passengers with Tender Loving Care? :ugeek:
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:27 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
I wondering whether TLC airport provides its passengers with Tender Loving Care? :ugeek:


Probably not, that's why incoming traffic has been decreasing in the past years ;)...
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:34 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
rabader wrote:
Also for a couple of years, it has been under construction a train connecting Mexico City with Toluca and there will be a station 5 km away from the airport. This train will be connected with the subway network of Mexico City. This will improve the connectivity from and to the airport. This will be ready in 2021 or 2022
Image
Well, if TLC airport does get a shuttle-bus to ”its station” on the new train line between Mexico City and Toluca, it could possibly attract some kind of commercial service.
If TLC was in Europe with that kind of rail-link, FR and W6 would surely be looking to serve it. :)

That's what I've been saying, but some people around here tell me that the rail will be pointless, as MEX is much better than TLC in so many ways. My regret is that, having TLC showing decreasing trend in incoming transit since 2011, it's only until 2022 (11yrs later) that the rail will be ready. An awful amount of time if you ask me.
 
rabader
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:11 pm

Alejo6 wrote:
That's what I've been saying, but some people around here tell me that the rail will be pointless, as MEX is much better than TLC in so many ways. My regret is that, having TLC showing decreasing trend in incoming transit since 2011, it's only until 2022 (11yrs later) that the rail will be ready. An awful amount of time if you ask me.


The world doesn't turn around TLC airport. The rail connection is not intended for the airport that's why it doesn't properly go to the airport, it's a nice add but nothing else. I will stop responding on this thread because it's becoming frustrating. But, you should stop seeing TLC in a vacuum, since the time of 3.9 million pax in TLC(2008), MEX has gone from 26 million to 48 million passengers, growing more than 5% every year. Until 2018 the plan was to build NAICM and have a new state-of-the-art airport for Mexico City. TLC will never become a true alternative for MEX, it can catch some demand, sure. But the answer is not TLC, it is a new airport closer to the centroid of demand.
 
santi319
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: TLC airport... What is it all about?

Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:21 am

rabader wrote:
Alejo6 wrote:
That's what I've been saying, but some people around here tell me that the rail will be pointless, as MEX is much better than TLC in so many ways. My regret is that, having TLC showing decreasing trend in incoming transit since 2011, it's only until 2022 (11yrs later) that the rail will be ready. An awful amount of time if you ask me.


The world doesn't turn around TLC airport. The rail connection is not intended for the airport that's why it doesn't properly go to the airport, it's a nice add but nothing else. I will stop responding on this thread because it's becoming frustrating. But, you should stop seeing TLC in a vacuum, since the time of 3.9 million pax in TLC(2008), MEX has gone from 26 million to 48 million passengers, growing more than 5% every year. Until 2018 the plan was to build NAICM and have a new state-of-the-art airport for Mexico City. TLC will never become a true alternative for MEX, it can catch some demand, sure. But the answer is not TLC, it is a new airport closer to the centroid of demand.


This is true. Not even NK, Air Madrid etc could make TLC work....

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