Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:48 pm

MGA (Managua) International Airport, is located in Nicaragua, Central America.

Due to it's privileged position in the very center of Central America, one would think that it has tremendous potential to be a hub for the Americas, linking the north with the south and as a regional conection center for CA, due to its centric position in the middle of the continent.

However, historical hubs for this region have been PTY, SJO and SAL, the last gaining more relevance since the Avianca-Taca merger (forced acquisition of TACA by Avianca), and the first being the main hub for CA.

Probably, political unrest, first by the Sandinista revolution, and now, by the never ending presidency of Daniel Ortega, that violates continually basic rights as the righ to protest and free speech, among other human rights, are woes that make investors and airlines that might think of MGA as a valid hub for the Americas to look the other way.

Other than some flights to MIA/FLL, PTY/GUA/SJO, HAV/SJU and domestic, MGA is completely wasted as a potential hub for the region. As a matter of fact, in 2016, it had 1.5M pax going through it, only 300k more than LIB, a secondary airport in Costa Rica, and less than double than Belize, a county with roughly 1/15 of their population. Shows you how politics can ruin any good entreprenurial idea.
Perhaps our Central American fellow airliners may give insightful input on this topic...
 
SFAviationGeek
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:00 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:09 pm

I know very little about specific Nicaraguan politics but my knee-jerk reaction is "does Central America *need* another hub?" Between Miami, Panama City, and San Salvador, N to S American traffic connections are pretty well covered IMO. I'm not sure what MGA could offer that the others don't?
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:19 pm

SFAviationGeek wrote:
I know very little about specific Nicaraguan politics but my knee-jerk reaction is "does Central America *need* another hub?" Between Miami, Panama City, and San Salvador, N to S American traffic connections are pretty well covered IMO. I'm not sure what MGA could offer that the others don't?

I'm not saying that it needs another hub.

I'm just saying that, handling things in another way, MGA could be perfectly the inter-Americas hub.

It has the right to win, from a geographical POV.

But the leftist governments have a way to throw away investors and the like.

Now, MGA handles a traffic similar to what goes through PAP, in the poorest country of the hemisphere (with Venezuela taken aside).

I'm not saying that it should be #1, but at least it shouldn't be #5.

Just saying...
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6471
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:47 pm

There's a lot more to running a successful airport than laying a lot of concrete in a straight line. Lots of academic disciplines could give you insight into why a certain spot might be lower volume/less successful than others.
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:28 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
There's a lot more to running a successful airport than laying a lot of concrete in a straight line. Lots of academic disciplines could give you insight into why a certain spot might be lower volume/less successful than others.


I bet that there's more to it than having an enough long runway and a proper control tower to have a succesful aiport.

I'm just saying is, why MGA, who has the potential to be a major hub in Central America, such as PTY, SJO or SAL, has a similar incoming traffic to Haiti's PAP, a country devastated by earthquakes and corrupt dictatorships since as long as I can remember.

Shows you that the key to a succesful business, more than location, good weather and such, is GOOD MGMT and sound decision making. And of course, a healthy economic environment that fosters and attracts investors and the public in general.

That's pretty much the point I'm trying to make here.

Thanks for sharing, anyway.

AP
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 1935
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:56 pm

I bet if you could convince the government to sponsor your project, it will work. Heck, if Doha, Dubai, and Abu Dhabi can do it, anywhere can.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:04 pm

stl07 wrote:
I bet if you could convince the government to sponsor your project, it will work. Heck, if Doha, Dubai, and Abu Dhabi can do it, anywhere can.


I don't get your comment. If it's sarcasm, I don't appreciate it.

I'm just talking about what could it be and was it. As two siblings separated when born, one turns rich, the other is poor.

Was MGA much better place to be a regional hub than SJO or SAL? I don't think so. Jet they are.

I don't have any project. If all we are talking in this forum was factual, more than half of the posts wouldn't exist.

Cheers,

AP
 
DLvsWN
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:31 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:36 pm

I would put GUA in line before MGA. Guatemala has a nominal GDP ~5x that of Nicaragua's, and has transatlantic service, and a far greater magnitude of foreign carriers and routes. Nica has some advantages, like more domestic aviation (owing to all the remote communities in the Atlantic side of the country, mainly), lower elevation, greater expansion potential, etc, but the economy it supports is far smaller.

Both airports face the same issue that nearly 100% of their traffic is international, which is a much harder air market to grow than domestic. BOG and MEX are propped up by the fact that >50% of their traffic is domestic, so it's a massive bedrock of traffic that can't go anywhere else and feeds a ton of connections onto international flights. With virtually no domestic aviation, you're either fighting for intl-intl transfers (competing against entrenched airports with huge networks) or battling for your own country's O&D, which is tough because you can't offer great connections beyond your limited network. So establishing a hub is an uphill battle to say the least. Only PTY has managed it on a big scale in LATAM, but for all the glamorous network and media attention is just ~half the scale of BOG.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24009
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:36 pm

MGA is hardly ideal from an airport point of view as a hub, Its far too small physically including limited runway. Also remember Nicaragua is a much smaller air travel market compared to other nations such as Costa Rica, Panama, Guatemala, El Salvador which as result will drive more O&D demand on their own.

Lets also remember, GUA was historically the hub of Central America (Pan Am had multiple daily 747s even) but due airport limitations it has long lost place to other markets that more suitable airports and underlying traffic demand.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
rabader
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:52 am

Nicaragua is the second to last economy of Central America and has been having political issues for the past 70 years. It is hard to envision a hub in its capital.
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 975
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:12 am

More to a hub than simply location. Things like underlying political and economic landscape, facilities, traffic demand, cost, etc all play a part.

Not sold on idea that Managua ideal by any means, let alone CenAm needs or can support another true hub.

Heck MGA cant even support a flight to place like LAX today.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:37 am

janders wrote:
More to a hub than simply location. Things like underlying political and economic landscape, facilities, traffic demand, cost, etc all play a part.

Not sold on idea that Managua ideal by any means, let alone CenAm needs or can support another true hub.

Heck MGA cant even support a flight to place like LAX today.


Just saying, location wise was a no brainer, specially in the 70's and such, when jets had lower range, oil prices were high rocketing and the need for an equidistant point to swicht planes in order to make a mid-haul flight to/from NA to SA was just right. Of course all the other factors (politics, etc.) made this not feasible.
 
N292UX
Posts: 486
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:55 am

If Nicaragua's economy eventually improves, then maybe something's possible. However, MGA's runway is only 8,000 feet long so there's another roadblock, at least for long-haul flights. Space could also be an issue depending on the size of this hub. PTY is best due to A. It's size and B. Panama City is one of the largest cities in Central America.

If there's another airport in Central America that could eventually see significant growth as a regional hub, I'd say SJO.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4445
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:02 am

There are way more people the middle East airlines can connect. All of Europe and Africa to anywhere in Asia or Australia really. The numbers are just way larger.

I agree for North America to south America between Miami, Houston, Dallas, Mexico City and Panama City I can't see there being room for another connector city. We don't need one. Those connect all the traffic just fine geographically. Those all offer so much more so this would never unseat any of of them or offer any advantage over them. The traffic numbers are nowhere what NA to Europe or Europe to Asia sees. Much smaller numbers and plenty of options already.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 3031
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:24 am

Nicaragua is the second-poorest country in the western hemisphere and its politics are in shambles. Lovely people that live there, but unfortunately that's not what is required for a major hub. To put things in perspective, other Central American airports have some type of dedicated roadway system leading into their airports (ie. PTY). MGA is built along the main highway through Central America, and its entrance off that main road is about as unimpressive as pulling off into a Taco Bell.
.......
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2275
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:33 am

So in summary,

MGA would be a perfect hub except...

It has a poor infrastructure with a short runway.

It has poor O&D because the local population is small and poor.

The local economy is terrible and has been for decades.

The local political situation is unstable and has been for decades.

There are lots of competing airports in the vicinity without the above drawbacks.

Sounds like a perfect hub to me! ; )
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:49 am

DLPMMM wrote:
So in summary,

MGA would be a perfect hub except...

It has a poor infrastructure with a short runway.

It has poor O&D because the local population is small and poor.

The local economy is terrible and has been for decades.

The local political situation is unstable and has been for decades.

There are lots of competing airports in the vicinity without the above drawbacks.

Sounds like a perfect hub to me! ; )

I remind you that EL SALVADOR (SAL), is a regional hub for Avianca, one of the greatest South American airlines, along with LATAM. It has many of the factors that you mentioned for MGA, namely:
The local economy is terrible and has been for decades.
There was a civil war that lasted 12 years and endend with the life of 75.000 ppl
There are lots of competing airports in the vicinity without the above drawbacks (namely PTY and SJO)
The local population is small and poor (most of the people trying to enter USA ilegally through its border are from El Salvador), therefore O&D pax should be low.
Had poor infrastructure and a short runway, until current airport was built in 1979 to substitute Ilopango International Airport, that had a 7345 ft runway. Ilopango (ILS) was left for charter and militar aviation, as well as to host an aviation show.
So, sarcasm apart (which again, I don't appreciate), if MGA was treated like SAL back in the 70's, perhaps we could be witnessing another story. That's all I'm saying.
AP
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:47 pm

jmc1975 wrote:
Nicaragua is the second-poorest country in the western hemisphere and its politics are in shambles. Lovely people that live there, but unfortunately that's not what is required for a major hub. To put things in perspective, other Central American airports have some type of dedicated roadway system leading into their airports (ie. PTY). MGA is built along the main highway through Central America, and its entrance off that main road is about as unimpressive as pulling off into a Taco Bell.

El Salvador's economy is not precisely sky-rocketing, as the thousands of Salvadorians that try to cross the US border day in and day out shows you.
Yet, SAL is a regional and important hub for Avianca, that could chose SJO instead, having Costa Rica a more sound economy, but they didn't. Shows you that all decisions are not economy driven. If you build good infrastructure, they could have come back in the day. Of course, everybody can say his mind with Monday's newspaper. All I'm saying is, had MGA been handled in a more strategic way, another story would tell. Some times airports are like islands and they work just fine.
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2275
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:44 pm

Alejo6 wrote:
DLPMMM wrote:
So in summary,

MGA would be a perfect hub except...

It has a poor infrastructure with a short runway.

It has poor O&D because the local population is small and poor.

The local economy is terrible and has been for decades.

The local political situation is unstable and has been for decades.

There are lots of competing airports in the vicinity without the above drawbacks.

Sounds like a perfect hub to me! ; )

I remind you that EL SALVADOR (SAL), is a regional hub for Avianca, one of the greatest South American airlines, along with LATAM. It has many of the factors that you mentioned for MGA, namely:
The local economy is terrible and has been for decades.
There was a civil war that lasted 12 years and endend with the life of 75.000 ppl
There are lots of competing airports in the vicinity without the above drawbacks (namely PTY and SJO)
The local population is small and poor (most of the people trying to enter USA ilegally through its border are from El Salvador), therefore O&D pax should be low.
Had poor infrastructure and a short runway, until current airport was built in 1979 to substitute Ilopango International Airport, that had a 7345 ft runway. Ilopango (ILS) was left for charter and militar aviation, as well as to host an aviation show.
So, sarcasm apart (which again, I don't appreciate), if MGA was treated like SAL back in the 70's, perhaps we could be witnessing another story. That's all I'm saying.
AP


I don’t know what you are saying.

Your thread title asked about the potential of MGA becoming a hub.

Multiple people tell you why it will not likely become a hub due to economic, political, and geographical reasons.

You respond by citing irrelevant facts and figures about different countries and then hypothesizing about how MGA could have been a hub in an alternate universe where history was different.

Airliners.net should add another subject category called “Hypothetical” for all of the “What if” and “Why no” threads.
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:03 pm

DLPMMM wrote:
Alejo6 wrote:
DLPMMM wrote:
So in summary,

MGA would be a perfect hub except...

It has a poor infrastructure with a short runway.

It has poor O&D because the local population is small and poor.

The local economy is terrible and has been for decades.

The local political situation is unstable and has been for decades.

There are lots of competing airports in the vicinity without the above drawbacks.

Sounds like a perfect hub to me! ; )

I remind you that EL SALVADOR (SAL), is a regional hub for Avianca, one of the greatest South American airlines, along with LATAM. It has many of the factors that you mentioned for MGA, namely:
The local economy is terrible and has been for decades.
There was a civil war that lasted 12 years and endend with the life of 75.000 ppl
There are lots of competing airports in the vicinity without the above drawbacks (namely PTY and SJO)
The local population is small and poor (most of the people trying to enter USA ilegally through its border are from El Salvador), therefore O&D pax should be low.
Had poor infrastructure and a short runway, until current airport was built in 1979 to substitute Ilopango International Airport, that had a 7345 ft runway. Ilopango (ILS) was left for charter and militar aviation, as well as to host an aviation show.
So, sarcasm apart (which again, I don't appreciate), if MGA was treated like SAL back in the 70's, perhaps we could be witnessing another story. That's all I'm saying.
AP


I don’t know what you are saying.

Your thread title asked about the potential of MGA becoming a hub.

Multiple people tell you why it will not likely become a hub due to economic, political, and geographical reasons.
You respond by citing irrelevant facts and figures about different countries and then hypothesizing about how MGA could have been a hub in an alternate universe where history was different.
Airliners.net should add another subject category called “Hypothetical” for all of the “What if” and “Why no” threads.

Well, there is another post right now called "What if", about what if one company would have launched one aircraft prior to 911.
I'm sorry that you dislike this post. I clearly posted from the start that this was under the assumption that things would have been handled differently since the 70's.
Unfortunately, many people like you understood that this question was about nowadays state of commercial aviation in CA, for reasons that escape me.
If you think that this post is irrelevant or should be categorized elsewhere, go to the moderators and ask for it. I'm not the person you should be speaking to.
AP
 
User avatar
yowza
Posts: 4503
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:15 pm

I think the best way to curtail *these* kinds of threads is to stop responding...

YOWza
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:37 pm

yowza wrote:
I think the best way to curtail *these* kinds of threads is to stop responding...

YOWza


And by *these* kind of threads, you mean? Expand
 
SA280
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:18 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:59 pm

An airport that barely handles half a dozen aircraft on the ground simultaneously - with little potential for expansion - will never provide de necessary bank structure for an efficient hub-and-spoke operation.
 
rabader
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:11 pm

This map is depicting 3000nm from MGA and PTY. As you can see PTY is better located and as in real life is a real north-south hub.

Image
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1194
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:24 pm

rabader wrote:
This a map depicting 3000nm from MGA and PTY. As you can see PTY is better located and as in real life is a real north-south hub.

Image

This. GRU, GIG, EZE, and MVD are more important to an airline connecting the Americas than SEA and YVR.
Completely ignoring the mess that is the Nicaraguan state right now. Avianca's Nicaraguan carrier (La Costeña) only serves domestic destinations and Tegucigalpa. If there was more to be served, I'm sure that AV would get on that.
-Andrés Juánez
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:47 pm

rabader wrote:
This map is depicting 3000nm from MGA and PTY. As you can see PTY is better located and as in real life is a real north-south hub.

Image


For me they look pretty much the same... It would be interesting to see SJO and SAL in that map, who were picked also as secondary hubs.

Nobody is arguing that MGA should take PTY's place.

All I'm saying is, had Nicaragua better played their cards back in the seventies, another rooster would have sung.

Of course, they were too busy fighting the Contras.

I know that these "what if" posts tend to irritate some people (of thin skin if you ask me), but sometimes it's good to challenge the status quo and not to take things as they are just because. Alternate realities are often case studies of how to do things better not to end like some sad stories around there...

My two cents...
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:53 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
rabader wrote:
This a map depicting 3000nm from MGA and PTY. As you can see PTY is better located and as in real life is a real north-south hub.

Image

This. GRU, GIG, EZE, and MVD are more important to an airline connecting the Americas than SEA and YVR.
Completely ignoring the mess that is the Nicaraguan state right now. Avianca's Nicaraguan carrier (La Costeña) only serves domestic destinations and Tegucigalpa. If there was more to be served, I'm sure that AV would get on that.


Again, this post is not about MGA potential as a regional hub with current state of affairs.

It's more about, with proper planning and a master plan behind, could have MGA been much more of what it is today (merely an O&D airport)?

If this forum was only about factual stuff, I could read an airline oriented newspaper and it would be pretty much the same, only more concentrated -it's the opinions that makes it interesting.

AP
 
rabader
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:56 pm

Alejo6 wrote:
For me they look pretty much the same... It would be interesting to see SJO and SAL in that map, who were picked also as secondary hubs.


They could look similar but for sure they're not the same. MGA +3000nm, leaves out all the biggest population centers in South America, including Sao Paolo, Rio de Janeiro, and Buenos Aires.

Image
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:00 pm

rabader wrote:
Alejo6 wrote:
For me they look pretty much the same... It would be interesting to see SJO and SAL in that map, who were picked also as secondary hubs.


They could look similar but for sure they're not the same. MGA +3000nm, leaves out all the biggest population centers in South America, including Sao Paolo, Rio de Janeiro, and Buenos Aires.

Image


Again, I'm not saying that it has to be PTY OR MGA.

I'm saying, why couldn't it be PTY AND MGA, as nowadays is PTY and SAL, and for some time PTY, SAL and SJO, when the Avianca-Taca merger hadn't take place?

This is not a contest to figure out which could be a better hub. This is about the possibility, in an alternate reality, to be complementary, hadn't communism spreaded through Nicaragua back in the days...
 
caribny
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:19 pm

Alejo6 wrote:
rabader wrote:
Alejo6 wrote:
For me they look pretty much the same... It would be interesting to see SJO and SAL in that map, who were picked also as secondary hubs.


They could look similar but for sure they're not the same. MGA +3000nm, leaves out all the biggest population centers in South America, including Sao Paolo, Rio de Janeiro, and Buenos Aires.

Image


Again, I'm not saying that it has to be PTY OR MGA.

I'm saying, why couldn't it be PTY AND MGA, as nowadays is PTY and SAL, and for some time PTY, SAL and SJO, when the Avianca-Taca merger hadn't take place?

This is not a contest to figure out which could be a better hub. This is about the possibility, in an alternate reality, to be complementary, hadn't communism spreaded through Nicaragua back in the days...


Not sure that Nicaragua was any worse than El Salvador. I recall a priest being killed in a church in the latter and the much larger Salvadorian migrant population shows that country is mess. Higher homicide rates too.

El Salvador worked because it was TACA's hub. AV built its Central American hub over this TACA base. Interestingly enough TACA was started in the 30s by the same New Zealander who in 1941 founded BWIA , the precursor of today's Caribbean Airlines. So the role of SAL relative to MGA has nothing to do with the instability of the 80s.
 
Redwood839
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:26 am

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:19 pm

Alejo6 wrote:
DLPMMM wrote:
So in summary,

MGA would be a perfect hub except...

It has a poor infrastructure with a short runway.

It has poor O&D because the local population is small and poor.

The local economy is terrible and has been for decades.

The local political situation is unstable and has been for decades.

There are lots of competing airports in the vicinity without the above drawbacks.

Sounds like a perfect hub to me! ; )

I remind you that EL SALVADOR (SAL), is a regional hub for Avianca, one of the greatest South American airlines, along with LATAM. It has many of the factors that you mentioned for MGA, namely:
The local economy is terrible and has been for decades.
There was a civil war that lasted 12 years and endend with the life of 75.000 ppl
There are lots of competing airports in the vicinity without the above drawbacks (namely PTY and SJO)
The local population is small and poor (most of the people trying to enter USA ilegally through its border are from El Salvador), therefore O&D pax should be low.
Had poor infrastructure and a short runway, until current airport was built in 1979 to substitute Ilopango International Airport, that had a 7345 ft runway. Ilopango (ILS) was left for charter and militar aviation, as well as to host an aviation show.
So, sarcasm apart (which again, I don't appreciate), if MGA was treated like SAL back in the 70's, perhaps we could be witnessing another story. That's all I'm saying.
AP


I honestly don't get why you even open a thread for discussing if that's the least you do. Everything you say is a counter attack to anything that anyone else says. It's like you want all of us to just say OMG, MGA would be a great hub. LET'S OPEN ONE UP.

Let's get serious. Nicaragua is a beautiful place full of beautiful people, but realistically no one will put a hub there. The government is erratic, the politics are all over the place, the economy is in the dump, your airport is small. Might as well open up a hub in Caracas.

Even hypothetically, it would be a terrible decision.

To respond to what you said. Avianca is NOT one of the biggest airlines in South America or the greatest, they're actually more close to bankrupt than anything else. And the reason that Avianca has a hub in SAL was because of TACA, so they kept it and have been reducing it just like they did to SJO. Remember that TACA bought La Costena at some point, and got rid of them as well , like with Sansa after Avianca came in.

So in essence, no it will never work. And if you don't like other people's opinion then don't ask for it and don't open a topic. All you've done the entire time is counter attack everyone like if you need to convince us that it's not a terrible thought to have a hub at MGA, it is one, which is why there isn't a single airline with more than a couple of flights per week serving it. It doesn't matter if they had done something different in the 70's. With your current goverment and everything else going on, no one wants to get close to MGA. Remember last year when most airlines stopped flying there because of the disturbs?
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:33 pm

Redwood839 wrote:
I honestly don't get why you even open a thread for discussing if that's the least you do. Everything you say is a counter attack to anything that anyone else says. It's like you want all of us to just say OMG, MGA would be a great hub. LET'S OPEN ONE UP.

Let's get serious. Nicaragua is a beautiful place full of beautiful people, but realistically no one will put a hub there. The government is erratic, the politics are all over the place, the economy is in the dump, your airport is small. Might as well open up a hub in Caracas.

Even hypothetically, it would be a terrible decision.

To respond to what you said. Avianca is NOT one of the biggest airlines in South America or the greatest, they're actually more close to bankrupt than anything else. And the reason that Avianca has a hub in SAL was because of TACA, so they kept it and have been reducing it just like they did to SJO. Remember that TACA bought La Costena at some point, and got rid of them as well , like with Sansa after Avianca came in.

So in essence, no it will never work. And if you don't like other people's opinion then don't ask for it and don't open a topic. All you've done the entire time is counter attack everyone like if you need to convince us that it's not a terrible thought to have a hub at MGA, it is one, which is why there isn't a single airline with more than a couple of flights per week serving it. It doesn't matter if they had done something different in the 70's. With your current goverment and everything else going on, no one wants to get close to MGA. Remember last year when most airlines stopped flying there because of the disturbs?

All I'm saying is, don't base your analysis on current situation. Of course, based on current situation, you wouldn't build any hub in CA, as it is already saturated with airlines and airports.
If you start your reply by saying "Look the political situation", you are completely, absolutely, missing the point.
But some people like you seems to have a hard time processing this info, so they keep basing their answer in current state of affairs.
I could say the same to you: why would you mind answering a thread where you disagree with everything that's being said, if you could spare the trouble. Better go to the next topic.
I have read some people's opinions and replied basing myself in what I think. That's called a conversation.
I didn't know that I had to take everybody's PoV and made my mind according to that, as if this was a poll.
If I would wanted to make a poll, I think that there's already a forum for that.
So if you like, let's make a deal, you don't enter in any thread written by me as a way of saving your precious time, and I will spare you the trouble.
Agree?
AP
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:35 pm

caribny wrote:
Alejo6 wrote:
rabader wrote:

They could look similar but for sure they're not the same. MGA +3000nm, leaves out all the biggest population centers in South America, including Sao Paolo, Rio de Janeiro, and Buenos Aires.

Image


Again, I'm not saying that it has to be PTY OR MGA.

I'm saying, why couldn't it be PTY AND MGA, as nowadays is PTY and SAL, and for some time PTY, SAL and SJO, when the Avianca-Taca merger hadn't take place?

This is not a contest to figure out which could be a better hub. This is about the possibility, in an alternate reality, to be complementary, hadn't communism spreaded through Nicaragua back in the days...


Not sure that Nicaragua was any worse than El Salvador. I recall a priest being killed in a church in the latter and the much larger Salvadorian migrant population shows that country is mess. Higher homicide rates too.

El Salvador worked because it was TACA's hub. AV built its Central American hub over this TACA base. Interestingly enough TACA was started in the 30s by the same New Zealander who in 1941 founded BWIA , the precursor of today's Caribbean Airlines. So the role of SAL relative to MGA has nothing to do with the instability of the 80s.

Thank you!
Shows you that with a good plan, even in the most adverse conditions, people can achieve great things.
 
TObound
Posts: 633
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:46 pm

Alejo6 wrote:
Again, I'm not saying that it has to be PTY OR MGA.

I'm saying, why couldn't it be PTY AND MGA,


Not enough traffic. Notably profitable traffic.

First off, there's no real need to even stop in Central America. And the new long range narrowbodies coming online mean more traffic bypassing Central America entirely. All the American hubs in the Southern and Southwestern US, BOG and PTY cover a good balance of the US and Canada and South America, with a 3000nm range ring. This has been true for a very long time. Newer aircraft make stopovers in Central America even less necessary. The 321XLR will extend this ring to 4000nm. So even if there were hubs for transit, they would be diminishing today.

And it's even worse for Central American destinations themselves. Don't need long range aircraft. 4-5 hrs flight time covers most of Central America from every hub in the Southern and Southwestern US and LAX. Likewise, BOG and PTY do the same for traffic from the South bound for Central America. Effectively, Central America is bracketed by the American and Mexican hubs to the North and PTY and BOG to the South. There's no substantial value being a Central American collector. And what little is left, is going to SJO as that country's tourism sector develops and draws in more o/d traffic.

Next, it's no accident that hubs tend to be near major economic centres too. Oil rich petrostates can create hubs out of thin air. But that's rare. Usually hubs form at major cities like LHR/LGW, CDG, JFK, NRT/HND, etc. Or at major trading posts like HKG. Or traditional transit points like SIN. PTY is a combination of a major transit route and regional economic centre. This means that PTY has plenty of in-bound o/d traffic to support a lot of flights. The connecting traffic is a bonus.

When you consider all of the above, things would have had to gone well not just for Nicaragua but all of Central America for MGA to be a hub. There would have to be enough intra-Central America traffic to make MGA valuable as a transfer point. This is for a region that stretches 1300nm (3-4 hrs flight time) from the top of Guatmela to the bottom of Panama. The level of development necessary for that to happen is substantial. Central America would have reach nearly first world levels of development for that much aviation demand to exist. And even then, there's arguably not need for a hub for that short a distance. Just fly directly from city to city. To put this in context, it would be like suggesting that Sacramento should be the hub for all north-south traffic along the US West Coast.
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:00 pm

TObound wrote:
Not enough traffic. Notably profitable traffic.

First off, there's no real need to even stop in Central America. And the new long range narrowbodies coming online mean more traffic bypassing Central America entirely. All the American hubs in the Southern and Southwestern US, BOG and PTY cover a good balance of the US and Canada and South America, with a 3000nm range ring. This has been true for a very long time. Newer aircraft make stopovers in Central America even less necessary. The 321XLR will extend this ring to 4000nm. So even if there were hubs for transit, they would be diminishing today.

And it's even worse for Central American destinations themselves. Don't need long range aircraft. 4-5 hrs flight time covers most of Central America from every hub in the Southern and Southwestern US and LAX. Likewise, BOG and PTY do the same for traffic from the South bound for Central America. Effectively, Central America is bracketed by the American and Mexican hubs to the North and PTY and BOG to the South. There's no substantial value being a Central American collector. And what little is left, is going to SJO as that country's tourism sector develops and draws in more o/d traffic.

Next, it's no accident that hubs tend to be near major economic centres too. Oil rich petrostates can create hubs out of thin air. But that's rare. Usually hubs form at major cities like LHR/LGW, CDG, JFK, NRT/HND, etc. Or at major trading posts like HKG. Or traditional transit points like SIN. PTY is a combination of a major transit route and regional economic centre. This means that PTY has plenty of in-bound o/d traffic to support a lot of flights. The connecting traffic is a bonus.

When you consider all of the above, things would have had to gone well not just for Nicaragua but all of Central America for MGA to be a hub. There would have to be enough intra-Central America traffic to make MGA valuable as a transfer point. This is for a region that stretches 1300nm (3-4 hrs flight time) from the top of Guatmela to the bottom of Panama. The level of development necessary for that to happen is substantial. Central America would have reach nearly first world levels of development for that much aviation demand to exist. And even then, there's arguably not need for a hub for that short a distance. Just fly directly from city to city. To put this in context, it would be like suggesting that Sacramento should be the hub for all north-south traffic along the US West Coast.

So, in your opinion, CA hubs will tend to dissapear, including PTY, which is also part of CA.
IMO, PTY is just a bubble. A 4 MM country with some tax breaks that tend to attract some big companies to set offices there as P&G, but this can change anytime.
PTY is not great, rather normal, no frills airport, that takes advantage of the Copa network, but not much of it to offer.
 
TObound
Posts: 633
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:31 pm

Alejo6 wrote:
So, in your opinion, CA hubs will tend to dissapear, including PTY, which is also part of CA.


They are barely hubs now. A lot of traffic to PTY is o/d, not thru traffic. Same is true for SJO. These cities will diminish in importance as hubs between North America and South America with newer aircraft coming online. They will grow in importance to Central America though. And that's only because they have first mover advantage and o/d traffic.

Alejo6 wrote:
IMO, PTY is just a bubble. A 4 MM country with some tax breaks that tend to attract some big companies to set offices there as P&G, but this can change anytime.
PTY is not a great airport, rather normal, no frills airport, that takes advantage of the Copa network, but not much of it to offer.


And Switzerland is a small country with 8.6 million people and some tax breaks that attract big companies, so nobody will ever really fly to or hub in Zurich....

I suspect that you think population and geography are drivers of air travel. They aren't. The size of the economy (overall GDP), and wealth/income distribution are the largest drivers of aviation demand. From this perspective, Panama looks pretty decent.

Panama has the second largest economy in Central America. And the 11th largest in Latin America. It's leveraged it's major asset (the canal) to build a shipping sector. Along with that it's developed financial sector to the point that PTY now ranks on most lists of global financial centres as the regional hub for Central America, aside from the usual Caribbean tax havens. Looking at its global position, it's ranked as Beta-, beside SJO, the highest ranking for Central America. Effectively, SJO and PTY are the most globally connected and influential cities from Central America. Aside from the economy itself, the level of development is high. 4th highest for HDI in Latina America. And highest for HDI in Central America. All of this adds up to aviation demand. It means foreigners want to travel to PTY. And it means that there are increasingly Panamanians who can afford to travel from PTY. That enables origin-destination traffic. Which then enables the creation of a hub for people and goods moving between cities serviced by connections to PTY.

Nobody really cares how dumpy the airport is.
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:02 pm

TObound wrote:

They are barely hubs now. A lot of traffic to PTY is o/d, not thru traffic. Same is true for SJO. These cities will diminish in importance as hubs between North America and South America with newer aircraft coming online. They will grow in importance to Central America though. And that's only because they have first mover advantage and o/d traffic.

And Switzerland is a small country with 8.6 million people and some tax breaks that attract big companies, so nobody will ever really fly to or hub in Zurich....

I suspect that you think population and geography are drivers of air travel. They aren't. The size of the economy (overall GDP), and wealth/income distribution are the largest drivers of aviation demand. From this perspective, Panama looks pretty decent.

Panama has the second largest economy in Central America. And the 11th largest in Latin America. It's leveraged it's major asset (the canal) to build a shipping sector. Along with that it's developed financial sector to the point that PTY now ranks on most lists of global financial centres as the regional hub for Central America, aside from the usual Caribbean tax havens. Looking at its global position, it's ranked as Beta-, beside SJO, the highest ranking for Central America. Effectively, SJO and PTY are the most globally connected and influential cities from Central America. Aside from the economy itself, the level of development is high. 4th highest for HDI in Latina America. And highest for HDI in Central America. All of this adds up to aviation demand. It means foreigners want to travel to PTY. And it means that there are increasingly Panamanians who can afford to travel from PTY. That enables origin-destination traffic. Which then enables the creation of a hub for people and goods moving between cities serviced by connections to PTY.

Nobody really cares how dumpy the airport is.

Panamá is a bubble, if you walk 10 miles in any direction from downtown, you will find a lot of poor villages and rural areas.
It's one of the Latin American countries with higher living costs, according to their average income. The only other country than can compete with this cost of living in the region is Chile and perhaps Brazil.
Unlike Switzerland, that you put as an example, where people earns big money, even the average worker, most people in Panamá have to settle with some 450$ a month.
I have a Colombian friend who was bored of traveling to Panamá because of the high costs of pretty much everything, even a coffee. That makes it unnatractive for shopping tourism, unless shopping specific items such as technology, which by the way, didn't seem cheap to me. Probably you have to go to Colón free zone, which is far from Panamá City, to get better deals.
I hardly doubt that most traffic at PTY is O&D, from my last experience being there in-route to SJO, most travelers come from Argentina and Brazil, en-route upwards to North America and to the Caribbean.
Some people DO care if the airport is a dumpster. If I have to go somewhere and have to choose between going direct or through the dumpty PTY, even if it's more expensive, I will choose the first each and every time.
Ok, so more Panamanians can afford to travel overseas, but again, small base (4M), so not significantly to build a great hub for the future. Panamá as a country has the population of Zulia, one of the 23 states that make up Venezuela.
So, although you don't want to acknowledge it, size does matters. That's why Luxembourg or Lichtenstein don't have big airports nor connecting centers, even if their population has one of the highest world's living standards.
AP
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 1935
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:38 pm

Alejo6 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
I bet if you could convince the government to sponsor your project, it will work. Heck, if Doha, Dubai, and Abu Dhabi can do it, anywhere can.


I don't get your comment. If it's sarcasm, I don't appreciate it.

I'm just talking about what could it be and was it. As two siblings separated when born, one turns rich, the other is poor.

Was MGA much better place to be a regional hub than SJO or SAL? I don't think so. Jet they are.

I don't have any project. If all we are talking in this forum was factual, more than half of the posts wouldn't exist.

Cheers,

AP

I don't know why my post was so offensive. All I was saying was that with a little government support, I'm sure what you proposed could happen, it just needs the support. The reason I bought up the middle eastern hubs was because they too have awful human rights, something you talked about earlier, yet they were able to do it, despite being sandwiched by other hubs.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
TObound
Posts: 633
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:50 pm

Alejo6 wrote:
TObound wrote:

They are barely hubs now. A lot of traffic to PTY is o/d, not thru traffic. Same is true for SJO. These cities will diminish in importance as hubs between North America and South America with newer aircraft coming online. They will grow in importance to Central America though. And that's only because they have first mover advantage and o/d traffic.

And Switzerland is a small country with 8.6 million people and some tax breaks that attract big companies, so nobody will ever really fly to or hub in Zurich....

I suspect that you think population and geography are drivers of air travel. They aren't. The size of the economy (overall GDP), and wealth/income distribution are the largest drivers of aviation demand. From this perspective, Panama looks pretty decent.

Panama has the second largest economy in Central America. And the 11th largest in Latin America. It's leveraged it's major asset (the canal) to build a shipping sector. Along with that it's developed financial sector to the point that PTY now ranks on most lists of global financial centres as the regional hub for Central America, aside from the usual Caribbean tax havens. Looking at its global position, it's ranked as Beta-, beside SJO, the highest ranking for Central America. Effectively, SJO and PTY are the most globally connected and influential cities from Central America. Aside from the economy itself, the level of development is high. 4th highest for HDI in Latina America. And highest for HDI in Central America. All of this adds up to aviation demand. It means foreigners want to travel to PTY. And it means that there are increasingly Panamanians who can afford to travel from PTY. That enables origin-destination traffic. Which then enables the creation of a hub for people and goods moving between cities serviced by connections to PTY.

Nobody really cares how dumpy the airport is.

Panamá is a bubble, if you walk 10 miles in any direction from downtown, you will find a lot of poor villages and rural areas.
It's one of the Latin American countries with higher living costs, according to their average income. The only other country than can compete with this cost of living in the region is Chile and perhaps Brazil.
Unlike Switzerland, that you put as an example, where people earns big money, even the average worker, most people in Panamá have to settle with some 450$ a month.
I have a Colombian friend who was bored of traveling to Panamá because of the high costs of pretty much everything, even a coffee. That makes it unnatractive for shopping tourism, unless shopping specific items such as technology, which by the way, didn't seem cheap to me. Probably you have to go to Colón free zone, which is far from Panamá City, to get better deals.
I hardly doubt that most traffic at PTY is O&D, from my last experience being there in-route to SJO, most travelers come from Argentina and Brazil, en-route upwards to North America and to the Caribbean.
Some people DO care if the airport is a dumpster. If I have to go somewhere and have to choose between going direct or through the dumpty PTY, even if it's more expensive, I will choose the first each and every time.
Ok, so more Panamanians can afford to travel overseas, but again, small base (4M), so not significantly to build a great hub for the future. Panamá as a country has the population of Zulia, one of the 23 states that make up Venezuela.
So, although you don't want to acknowledge it, size does matters. That's why Luxembourg or Lichtenstein don't have big airports nor connecting centers, even if their population has one of the highest world's living standards.
AP


There's no point having a discussion if you don't care about facts.

Nobody is suggesting that Panama is a "rich" country. But what I posted above is undeniable. It it substantially more developed than a lot of Central America (except for Costa Rica). It does have the highest HDI in Central America. It does have the second highest GDP and the highest GDP per capita in Central America. It is ranked by the Economist in top 100 of global financial centres. Those are facts. Whether you like them or not is entirely irrelevant. And it is those facts that create and sustain demand for air travel. Not how pretty an airport is.

You started this entire post by urging posters to argue what could have been at MGA. You seem less interested in this topic though, then trying to prove why PTY isn't feasible as a regional hub (despite actual evidence to the contrary). So let's stick on topic. Do you have anything else beyond geography to suggest why MGA should be a hub? Because I don't see much. It's the airport of a medium sized metro in a country where HDI is among the lowest in Latin America. Nicaragua's HDI is on par with Guatamela, and a touch above India and East Timor. That gives you an idea of the league it is in. All in a moderately developed region of the world that does not have the industry or personal wealth to drive lots of air traffic, let alone sufficient traffic and destinations served to create and sustain a hub. You can't have a hub if there isn't much aviation activity in the region to begin with. And you certainly can't have one in a city and country not that many people want to travel to/from.
Last edited by TObound on Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:51 pm

stl07 wrote:
I don't know why my post was so offensive. All I was saying was that with a little government support, I'm sure what you proposed could happen, it just needs the support. The reason I bought up the middle eastern hubs was because they too have awful human rights, something you talked about earlier, yet they were able to do it, despite being sandwiched by other hubs.


I thought for a moment that you were using sarcasm to make a point, like: "yeah, go ahead, if that's such a great idea why don't you go and build it yourself"...

If you were genuinly saying this, then I should apologize for overreacting.

Some people around here tend to use sarcasm and irony on a daily basis to make points and try to win arguments, something that I highly regret.

In any case, I don't live in Nicaragua and don't intend to do anything on this matter. They should solve their problems their own. Probably the first thing they should do is get rid of Daniel Ortega, who has been ruling Nicaragua's destiny for over 13 years, he is like a cancer, won't go unless you remove it.

Thanks anyway for the input. Guess that I should take some vacation from the forum. Being its composition 99.99% men I guess, sometimes there is too much aggresivity around. One just want to talk about airlines and airports, not to enter in a boxing ring...
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:03 pm

TObound wrote:
There's no point having a discussion if you don't care about facts.

Nobody is suggesting that Panama is a "rich" country. But what I posted above is undeniable. It it substantially more developed than a lot of Central America (except for Costa Rica). It does have the highest HDI in Central America. It does have the second highest GDP and the highest GDP per capita in Central America. It is ranked by the Economist in top 100 of global financial centres. Those are facts. Whether you like them or not is entirely irrelevant. And it is those facts that create and sustain demand for air travel. Not how pretty an airport is.

You started this entire post by urging posters to argue what could have been at MGA. You seem less interested in this topic though, then trying to prove why PTY isn't feasible as a regional hub (despite actual evidence to the contrary). So let's stick on topic. Do you have anything else beyond geography to suggest why MGA should be a hub? Because I don't see much. It's the airport of a medium sized metro in a country where HDI is among the lowest in Latin America. All in a moderately developed region of the world that does not have the industry or personal wealth to drive lots of air traffic, let alone sufficient traffic and destinations served to create and sustain a hub.


I could say the same about you. You are ignoring facts like that MGA is at the heart of CA, so besides the point of the socio-economic and political disturb that has been around Nicaragua since pretty much I can remember, it could have made a valid hub for the Americas, such as SAL or SJO. The point with PTY is that COPA made grow the hub, in the same way that LAN made SCL big, despite being a somewhat isolated country down south, with a population smaller than its neighbour Argentina, and much smaller than Brazil, but they managed to merge with TAM and keep most of their identity (actually the logo, colours, name and livery of LATAM is more LAN's than TAM's and that's undeniably). Shows you that when things are done well, barriers like market size can be overcomed.
Let me suggest you something. Don't reply anymore my posts. In that way, you will spare you the angst of discussing with somebody that doesn't listen (like you).

Cheers!

AP
 
TObound
Posts: 633
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:17 pm

Alejo6 wrote:
I could say the same about you. You are ignoring facts like that MGA is at the heart of CA, so besides the point of the socio-economic and political disturb that has been around Nicaragua since pretty much I can remember, it could have made a valid hub for the Americas, such as SAL or SJO.


I am not ignoring any facts. I am suggesting those facts are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. If all that mattered was geography, the largest hub in the continental US would be in Kansas or Nebraska, Winnipeg would be a bigger hub for Canada than Toronto, and the largest hub in Europe would be in Slovakia. Why do you think this is not true?

Alejo6 wrote:
The point with PTY is that COPA made grow the hub, in the same way that LAN made SCL big, despite being a somewhat isolated country down south, with a population smaller than its neighbour Argentina, and much smaller than Brazil, but they managed to merge with TAM and keep most of their identity (actually the logo, colours, name and livery of LATAM is more LAN's than TAM's and that's undeniably). Shows you that when things are done well, barriers like market size can be overcomed.


If all it takes is a large airline to have a hub, why do you think Moscow and Aeroflot aren't dominating the lists of global hubs? Why aren't more people traveling through China (as opposed to China)? Why isn't China Eastern bigger than Emirates for connecting pax? What your example shows is that hubs happen in countries with the economic activity and flows to create and sustain them. Competent airline management can take advantage of that. But those flows must exist. If nobody wanted to travel to/from SCL, LAN would never have been as successful in the first place.

Alejo6 wrote:
Let me suggest you something. Don't reply any more of my posts. In that way, you will spear you the angst of discussing with somebody that doesn't listen (like you).

Cheers!

AP


Let me suggest to you that you don't start topics if all you want are answers that conform to your pre-existing biases. We aren't here to stroke each other egos.
 
Alejo6
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:35 pm

TObound wrote:
I am not ignoring any facts. I am suggesting those facts are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. If all that mattered was geography, the largest hub in the continental US would be in Kansas or Nebraska, Winnipeg would be a bigger hub for Canada than Toronto, and the largest hub in Europe would be in Slovakia. Why do you think this is not true?

If all it takes is a large airline to have a hub, why do you think Moscow and Aeroflot aren't dominating the lists of global hubs? Why aren't more people traveling through China (as opposed to China)? Why isn't China Eastern bigger than Emirates for connecting pax? What your example shows is that hubs happen in countries with the economic activity and flows to create and sustain them. Competent airline management can take advantage of that. But those flows must exist. If nobody wanted to travel to/from SCL, LAN would never have been as successful in the first place.

Let me suggest to you that you don't start topics if all you want are answers that conform to your pre-existing biases. We aren't here to stroke each other egos.


So you can overrule the facts that I show by calling them irrelevant, but all of your facts are undeniable and unquestionable. What a democratic way to discuss.
Aeroflot was the biggest airline back in the 70's in case you missed it.
All I wanted was to discuss the possibility of MGA as a regional hub. Please do me a favor, don't write me anymore.
 
TObound
Posts: 633
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:40 pm

Alejo6 wrote:
So you can overrule the facts that I show by calling them irrelevant, but all of your facts are undeniable and unquestionable. What a democratic way to discuss.


Facts are relevant if you can show them to be relevant. You have not shown that geography is the most relevant metric yet.

I have argued that economics determines hub placement. And PTY proves that in spades.

Alejo6 wrote:
Aeroflot was the biggest airline back in the 70's in case you missed it.


And it isn't today. Goes to show that airline size and hub location aren't the largest factors in where the busiest hubs are.

Alejo6 wrote:
All I wanted was to discuss the possibility of MGA as a regional hub.


Actually, all you wanted was someone to say "yes" to your conjecture that MGA would be a great hub. And you don't like anyone injecting reality into that discussion.

What kind of discussion did you expect on a.net?
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 975
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: MGA Airport - Potential as a regional hub?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:50 pm

Thread hereby locked.

Clear some don’t want to discuss the subject but instead argue with fellow posters seeking to contribute.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos