Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Topic Author
Posts: 5136
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:54 pm

https://www.boston.com/travel/travel/20 ... h-carolina

"American Airlines announced Tuesday it will offer nonstop service between Boston and Raleigh-Durham International Airport in Morrisville, N.C., and Wilmington International Airport in Wilmington, N.C., as well as nonstop service between Boston and Indianapolis International Airport in Indianapolis, Ind. The service begins in May.

“With the addition of these new flights, customers will have more options than ever to get to multiple cities within the Tar Heel State from Boston,” said Jim Carter, managing director of the eastern division of sales, in a press release. “This new service will benefit business academia and leisure travelers alike, so whether you want to escape to the coast of Wilmington for the weekend or take a business meeting in the Triangle, we now have the access to get our customers there.”

There will be five flights daily between Boston and Raleigh-Durham and Saturday flights between Boston and Wilmington. The Indianapolis flight will operate twice daily. Passengers will fly on an Embraer E175 aircraft, which has 12 first class and 64 main cabin seats."

Wow, this is a big push by AA into the BOS market, especially considering DL planned on slowing BOS growth this year.

I think this will force DL's hand to defend BOS-RDU/IND
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7790
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:12 pm

Looking at a June Monday, that's 6x DL, 6X B6, and 1X F9. No way can BOS-RDU sustain four carriers at those frequencies.
 
User avatar
mikegigs
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:03 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:14 pm

Looks like BOS-IND starts May 7, but can't seem to find a definite start date for RDU or ILM... exciting news!

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/loc ... 464607002/
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a long way to go!
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4521
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:16 pm

Good to see American rebuilding BOS, well not a hub but at least a focus city. It'll be interesting to see how Jet Blue will react to this. Will Jet Blue also try to sneak in as well on that market? Delta is already flying BOS-RDU at least 4x daily!

And what about relaunching BOS-STL? Would that work? Not on mainline equipment but at least on E175 equipment, I see Envoy doing it.
Ben Soriano
 
KCaviator
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:16 pm

There’s been rumor that YX was going to start flying out of BOS again for AA, and it looks as if it’s now true.

YX just opened a crew base in BOS, so this was probably an easy decision for AA to add some competition with relative ease.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2413
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:16 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Looking at a June Monday, that's 6x DL, 6X B6, and 1X F9. No way can BOS-RDU sustain four carriers at those frequencies.


RDU is the new AUS, I presume ;)
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7947
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:17 pm

DL already loaded BOS-RDU at 6x (3x E75 & 3x 717) for Summer 2020. That is a lot of seats.
 
aaflyer777
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:37 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:18 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Looking at a June Monday, that's 6x DL, 6X B6, and 1X F9. No way can BOS-RDU sustain four carriers at those frequencies.


Its actually 5, NK flies it 1x too. 5x daily to start is a pretty aggressive schedule, AA is clearly making a play for BOS, they only need to add SFO and they'll be in all the key business markets out of BOS.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2692
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:19 pm

Hold on... FIVE daily BOS-RDU on American immediately?
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Topic Author
Posts: 5136
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:19 pm

You got to think STL, BNA, and maybe SFO could be on deck...
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
Gulfstream500
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:30 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:22 pm

So that’s where all of AA’s JFK planes are going :stirthepot:
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
stlgph
Posts: 11210
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:23 pm

Given AA's recent moves - STL totally makes sense. Sizable base of operations and flyers at both ends for AA, and right now Southwest is the only game in town.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:24 pm

I would suggest MEM on an E175 to AA
 
tphuang
Posts: 5075
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:26 pm

Midwestindy wrote:

I think this will force DL's hand to defend BOS-RDU/IND


What do you think DL can actually do here outside of maybe adding a flight to each market? DL is not exactly dominating either end of each route against AA here. AA is not gate constrained at BOS. It can do a lot more with its real estate. DL on the other hand is a lot more constrained given that it has already signaled moving toward building core hubs vs "coastal" hubs and is close to gate constrained. If you look at the yield numbers out of BOS/SEA, it's pretty obvious why they need to do that.

I don't think AA is finished here. I hope AA learnt its lesson from NYC. Don't let DL take your ff. Once they switch allegiance or use up their miles, they are a lot harder to win back.

I do think B6 going to IND is going to on the back burners for a while.
Last edited by tphuang on Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2789
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:27 pm

These moves by AA would appear to mean the futures of MDT-BOS, ROC-BOS and SYR-BOS are looking much brighter.
 
dfdubflyer
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:01 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:28 pm

Wilmington out of left field, no?
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3451
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:30 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
You got to think STL, BNA, and maybe SFO could be on deck...


I never even really considered AA on STL-BOS but if they really are going to be growing BOS and only having WN to compete with instead of 2 of WN/DL/B6 makes me think it at least is a possiblity now.

Congrats to the cities that got service.
 
lowfareair
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:33 pm

I wonder if DL will retaliate with more flights to AA hubs? PHL-LAX is looking pretty lonely right now...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26158
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:33 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
Wilmington out of left field, no?


Sure but it’s a Saturday-only flight for leisure travelers, probably using an ERJ175 otherwise parked on a Saturday, like the Caribbean Saturday flying.
a.
 
F27500
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:52 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:38 pm

ILM is an oddball (beautiful city and area, though!) .. but BOS-RDU (both AA and US) and BOS-IND (US). have both been flown in the past .. i wasn't aware they had been discontinued
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2692
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:38 pm

lowfareair wrote:
I wonder if DL will retaliate with more flights to AA hubs? PHL-LAX is looking pretty lonely right now...


AUS/SEA/IND/RDU/BOS-DFW would likely make AA go crazy.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2268
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:39 pm

These are all solid adds, all of which were flown by US and/or AA at some point in time. I don't remember US every flying BOS-ILM, but nonetheless it should work out fine.

I would argue that amongst all of these routes, AA has more to gain and less to loose in comparison to DL/B6. I would be willing to bet that AA is likely somewhat willing to operate these routes at a loss in attempt to gain back some of their lost market share.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see AA attempt to relaunch BOS-SFO. I understand that the market is quite different now than when AA last operated the route (with DL/B6 Mint/UA/AS on the route). I think they last operated the route back in 2012.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
kavok
Posts: 815
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:41 pm

These are interesting adds by AA.

The ILM addition should work well for the local Wilmington business flyer, who is probably loyal to AA anyway, and now will have a direct flight to BOS. Obviously a route targeted towards all OD on both ends, but you may pick up a few connections to/from TATL routes in BOS.

The IND add will be interesting in how the competition responds. I would guess DL upgauges IND-BOS flights to mainline, but I see this AA flight addition just as much of a play on the IND flyer as BOS. In IND, DL has gradually been building market share and recently surpassed AA in size there. While DL doesn’t call IND a focus city officially, it has slowly been moving in that direction functionally. Finally, the AA addition counters DL’s near monopoly on the route, and pre-empts a potential B6 expansion to IND.

RDU seems like the most challenging of the 3 additions for AA to make a profit. B6 and DL are already on the route, so you are fighting both of those frequent flyer bases and business contracts on the BOS end. In RDU, DL is approaching boarderline hub status. Point being, AA is adding a route between two (almost) hubs of another legacy, and with B6 providing additional competition besides. I know both RDU and BOS have legacy AA flyers, but I have a hard time seeing this addition making much money for AA.
 
dfdubflyer
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:01 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:50 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
Wilmington out of left field, no?


Sure but it’s a Saturday-only flight for leisure travelers, probably using an ERJ175 otherwise parked on a Saturday, like the Caribbean Saturday flying.


Interesting. Different cities vacation different places... I didn't realize that Wilmington was a vacation destination! But then again, where I grew up the Florida Panhandle was the be all-end all of beach destinations
 
ryby92
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:54 pm

kavok wrote:
These are interesting adds by AA.

The ILM addition should work well for the local Wilmington business flyer, who is probably loyal to AA anyway, and now will have a direct flight to BOS. Obviously a route targeted towards all OD on both ends, but you may pick up a few connections to/from TATL routes in BOS.

The IND add will be interesting in how the competition responds. I would guess DL upgauges IND-BOS flights to mainline, but I see this AA flight addition just as much of a play on the IND flyer as BOS. In IND, DL has gradually been building market share and recently surpassed AA in size there. While DL doesn’t call IND a focus city officially, it has slowly been moving in that direction functionally. Finally, the AA addition counters DL’s near monopoly on the route, and pre-empts a potential B6 expansion to IND.

RDU seems like the most challenging of the 3 additions for AA to make a profit. B6 and DL are already on the route, so you are fighting both of those frequent flyer bases and business contracts on the BOS end. In RDU, DL is approaching boarderline hub status. Point being, AA is adding a route between two (almost) hubs of another legacy, and with B6 providing additional competition besides. I know both RDU and BOS have legacy AA flyers, but I have a hard time seeing this addition making much money for AA.


Both AA and DL are strong at both ends. B6 is the one under pressure here. Very weak at RDU.

Time to throw out the narrative now that AA no longer competes. If they add SFO STL BNA PIT suddenly they are very strong again. Add a few more Caribbean Saturday flights, where they are alredy very strong for good measure.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7947
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:00 pm

DL did just add a few MIA frequencies to its hubs for Summer 2020 per this past week's OAG thread. FWIW.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5075
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:02 pm

ryby92 wrote:
kavok wrote:
These are interesting adds by AA.

The ILM addition should work well for the local Wilmington business flyer, who is probably loyal to AA anyway, and now will have a direct flight to BOS. Obviously a route targeted towards all OD on both ends, but you may pick up a few connections to/from TATL routes in BOS.

The IND add will be interesting in how the competition responds. I would guess DL upgauges IND-BOS flights to mainline, but I see this AA flight addition just as much of a play on the IND flyer as BOS. In IND, DL has gradually been building market share and recently surpassed AA in size there. While DL doesn’t call IND a focus city officially, it has slowly been moving in that direction functionally. Finally, the AA addition counters DL’s near monopoly on the route, and pre-empts a potential B6 expansion to IND.

RDU seems like the most challenging of the 3 additions for AA to make a profit. B6 and DL are already on the route, so you are fighting both of those frequent flyer bases and business contracts on the BOS end. In RDU, DL is approaching boarderline hub status. Point being, AA is adding a route between two (almost) hubs of another legacy, and with B6 providing additional competition besides. I know both RDU and BOS have legacy AA flyers, but I have a hard time seeing this addition making much money for AA.


Both AA and DL are strong at both ends. B6 is the one under pressure here. Very weak at RDU.

Time to throw out the narrative now that AA no longer competes. If they add SFO STL BNA PIT suddenly they are very strong again. Add a few more Caribbean Saturday flights, where they are alredy very strong for good measure.


What in the world are you talking about? This is Q3 numbers
CityPairDist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare% NS PerFlight Dep LF Yield PRASM Vs B6
BOSRDU 612 B6 89051 159.37 159.36 183.27 99.96% 100.3 1117 79.51% 126.70 0.2070 100.00%
BOSRDU 612 DL 84012 160.86 160.26 343.19 99.67% 105.1 0978 81.70% 130.93 0.2139 103.33%

B6 had more flights, more passengers and about the same yield and passenger per flight as DL. And their cost is a whole lot lower than DL here. their margin will easily be the best here.

AA is not going back into PIT anytime soon, but SFO/STL/BNA are all possibilities.
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3212
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:05 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
Wilmington out of left field, no?


Sure but it’s a Saturday-only flight for leisure travelers, probably using an ERJ175 otherwise parked on a Saturday, like the Caribbean Saturday flying.


Interesting. Different cities vacation different places... I didn't realize that Wilmington was a vacation destination! But then again, where I grew up the Florida Panhandle was the be all-end all of beach destinations


Two words for ILM : Outer Banks
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
FSDan
Posts: 3281
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:12 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
Wilmington out of left field, no?


I don't necessarily think so. It's an unserved market from BOS and AA is very strong in ILM, flying to DFW, ORD, CLT, DCA, PHL, and LGA already.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2268
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:14 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Sure but it’s a Saturday-only flight for leisure travelers, probably using an ERJ175 otherwise parked on a Saturday, like the Caribbean Saturday flying.


Interesting. Different cities vacation different places... I didn't realize that Wilmington was a vacation destination! But then again, where I grew up the Florida Panhandle was the be all-end all of beach destinations


Two words for ILM : Outer Banks

ILM is actually quite far from the Outer Banks. Much more easier for travelers to use any of the airports in Southern Virginia.

There are some popular beaches near ILM (Bald Head Island, Sunset Beach, Oak Island, Topsail, etc.). They aren’t really to my taste as they are very much family and condo/beach house rental oriented but they are popular. ILM is decently sized city with attractions. It isn’t SAV or CHS but it is nice and has industry, especially film.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:17 pm

Given the growth at HHH, I wonder if they have that on the BOS radar potentially. Saturday only like the ILM service would be interesting. STL & SFO make sense. Good to see AA get back to being aggressive. I do wonder if it is basically what they do with the JFK planes or if they finally got over the loss of the MAX in terms of other deliveries to look at new opportunities.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 546
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:22 pm

I'm thinking STL is next at bat.
Delta Gold Medallion
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2692
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:24 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
Given the growth at HHH, I wonder if they have that on the BOS radar potentially. Saturday only like the ILM service would be interesting. STL & SFO make sense. Good to see AA get back to being aggressive. I do wonder if it is basically what they do with the JFK planes or if they finally got over the loss of the MAX in terms of other deliveries to look at new opportunities.


I’d say HHH is a strong possibility. AA recently announced DFW/ORD/PHL-HHH set to begin soon.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3281
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:24 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
So that’s where all of AA’s JFK planes are going :stirthepot:


Which is interesting to think about... You'd think AA's market position in NYC would still be stronger than their position in BOS, given that they serve all the same major markets well from NYC plus many more, both domestic and international. NYC is a much bigger market as well, but I guess the higher competition must be doing AA in there.

These recent moves in BOS certainly mark a strategy change for AA. How many gates do they have in BOS these days? IIRC, they gave up a number of gates within the last year or so as WN moved to Terminal B.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5928
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:32 pm

Very odd moves

I wonder what the play is here
 
kavok
Posts: 815
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:33 pm

USAirALB wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:

Interesting. Different cities vacation different places... I didn't realize that Wilmington was a vacation destination! But then again, where I grew up the Florida Panhandle was the be all-end all of beach destinations


Two words for ILM : Outer Banks

ILM is actually quite far from the Outer Banks. Much more easier for travelers to use any of the airports in Southern Virginia.

There are some popular beaches near ILM (Bald Head Island, Sunset Beach, Oak Island, Topsail, etc.). They aren’t really to my taste as they are very much family and condo/beach house rental oriented but they are popular. ILM is decently sized city with attractions. It isn’t SAV or CHS but it is nice and has industry, especially film.



The ILM-BOS addition is indicative of a concept I call “capturing the peripheral business traveler”. For those in the know, if there is an actual industry term for this, I would be curious to hear what it is called.

But the concept is basically offering valuable (yet profitable) service to small-to-mid size markets in close proximity to a hub. So using ILM as an example, the closest nearby hub is obviously CLT. Thus the business pax in Wilmington is most likely to be loyal to AA because: 1) AA will have lots of frequent short-hop service to CLT, where you can get a connection to almost anywhere, 2) In the event of IRROPS the pax can consider ground transportation or other non-flying options to get between ILM and CLT because the distance isn’t that far, and 3) the pax has the option to drive to CLT directly if they are flying (for example) international and don’t want to deal with making a connection before/after the flight.

Basically, I am talking about small to medium size cities that are around 2 to 3 hours (surface) travel time away from a hub. For the reasons above, and others, business pax in these cities tend to be most loyal to whatever legacy’s hub is closest. And by airlines such as AA offering other non-stop options to cities besides the nearby hub, the loyalty to the airline (in this case AA) only strengthens.
 
ScottB
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:18 pm

kavok wrote:
The ILM addition should work well for the local Wilmington business flyer, who is probably loyal to AA anyway, and now will have a direct flight to BOS.


AA won't get much business travel with a weekly Saturday-only flight. This is pretty much a beach vacation special. I'm surprised they're not doing BOS-MYR instead for the golfers.

tphuang wrote:
What do you think DL can actually do here outside of maybe adding a flight to each market? DL is not exactly dominating either end of each route against AA here. AA is not gate constrained at BOS. It can do a lot more with its real estate. DL on the other hand is a lot more constrained given that it has already signaled moving toward building core hubs vs "coastal" hubs and is close to gate constrained. If you look at the yield numbers out of BOS/SEA, it's pretty obvious why they need to do that.


Of course, AA also has somewhat fewer gates (17 or 18, vs. 21 for DL) at BOS. This is quite an about-face for AA given that they dropped the PIT-BOS route, served by US and its predecessors for decades, just over a year ago. Statements about building core hubs vs. coastal hubs don't really commit Delta to anything. Herb Kelleher purportedly once said that Southwest would serve DEN (the new one) "when pigs fly." Delta very likely has further plans for BOS; they started DTW-ORH back in August and that's obviously a move to curry favor with Massport.

tphuang wrote:
I don't think AA is finished here. I hope AA learnt its lesson from NYC. Don't let DL take your ff. Once they switch allegiance or use up their miles, they are a lot harder to win back.


Maybe, but AA still has a better position in terms of assets (slots and gates in NYC) as compared to Boston. They don't seem to have a clue about how to effectively use those assets. I do expect they've seen yield erosion at BOS now that DL has a more comprehensive set of destinations and has even entered BOS-ORD -- unimaginable just a few years ago. Maybe there's a bit of a message here to DL to keep out of BOS-CLT and BOS-DFW; those are the two most obvious business markets from BOS where DL is absent right now.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1926
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:21 pm

Would love to see AA add BOS-CDG back, but I just don't see it happening. AA and US had each leading positions in the Boston market years ago.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3281
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:32 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Would love to see AA add BOS-CDG back, but I just don't see it happening. AA and US had each leading positions in the Boston market years ago.


Level is picking up BOS-ORY this summer and is part of the JBA, so it would be very surprising to see AA restart BOS-CDG. That said, it's pretty surprising to see AA start AUS, IND, and RDU, so anything can happen!
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5075
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:25 pm

ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
What do you think DL can actually do here outside of maybe adding a flight to each market? DL is not exactly dominating either end of each route against AA here. AA is not gate constrained at BOS. It can do a lot more with its real estate. DL on the other hand is a lot more constrained given that it has already signaled moving toward building core hubs vs "coastal" hubs and is close to gate constrained. If you look at the yield numbers out of BOS/SEA, it's pretty obvious why they need to do that.


Of course, AA also has somewhat fewer gates (17 or 18, vs. 21 for DL) at BOS. This is quite an about-face for AA given that they dropped the PIT-BOS route, served by US and its predecessors for decades, just over a year ago. Statements about building core hubs vs. coastal hubs don't really commit Delta to anything. Herb Kelleher purportedly once said that Southwest would serve DEN (the new one) "when pigs fly." Delta very likely has further plans for BOS; they started DTW-ORH back in August and that's obviously a move to curry favor with Massport.

AA dropped BOS-PIT because it was a giant bloodbath that really doesn't seem to be as important of a business market as the recent ones they added. There is no chance DL survives on that route if there is a recession or oil spike. And that applies to a lot of routes DL has out of BOS. AA might have fewer gates at BOS but those gates are used much less heavily. They need to keep using them to not lose gates. There is plenty of room for them to add more. DL is close to being tapped out at terminal A. As for currying favor with massport, AA also started PHL-ORH and they have certainly lost gates at BOS already.

Think about it this way. B6 is adding close to 30% capacity at BOS YoY this summer. DL's response have been cutting back to Florida, adding a flight to CVG, AUS and SEA. AS is adding flights to pretty much every transcon and midcon market out of SEA and DL's response have been rotating in a couple of A220s, adding a flight to a couple of market. So facing this much smaller move by AA, what response do they have outside of maybe going to 5x on IND and 7x on RDU? I presume B6 will also go to 7x on RDU now.
tphuang wrote:
I don't think AA is finished here. I hope AA learnt its lesson from NYC. Don't let DL take your ff. Once they switch allegiance or use up their miles, they are a lot harder to win back.


Maybe, but AA still has a better position in terms of assets (slots and gates in NYC) as compared to Boston. They don't seem to have a clue about how to effectively use those assets. I do expect they've seen yield erosion at BOS now that DL has a more comprehensive set of destinations and has even entered BOS-ORD -- unimaginable just a few years ago. Maybe there's a bit of a message here to DL to keep out of BOS-CLT and BOS-DFW; those are the two most obvious business markets from BOS where DL is absent right now.

AA is at worst a #3 at BOS. At NYC, they are #4 now. They are at an irreversible position in NYC due to their cuts and loss of ff. Their declines at certainly JFK markets in the past 2 years is pretty awful. If they don't do something at BOS, they will start losing a lot of ff there too. Just by adding a few important domestic market, AA could re-affirm their position as legacy of choice out of BOS. Who cares they don't fly to BUF or CLE or MKE or JAX if they have the best combined schedules to NYC/DC/London/LA/Chicago/Philadelphia/Dallas?

They've seen yield erosion at BOS because there is too much capacity. There is no evidence they have lost their leading position in any of the market they should dominate in. Again, they are well positioned at BOS by just serving their hubs. DL's performance to ORD or any of these other tough markets are about what you would expect for an airline with limited point of sale on both end. AA is always going to be the best positioned legacy carrier to succeed at BOS due to their hub locations and alliance partners. DL has to add a whole lot of non-hub markets to have as comprehensive of a map as AA. \And even now with all their adds, their domestic market share in terms of passenger count is pretty close.
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1862
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:27 pm

Didn't Dougweiser axe most of the USAirways BOS operations, including these flights, years ago? I swear that USAirways was the #1 airline in BOS at one point.
xx
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3212
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:22 pm

USAirALB wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:

Interesting. Different cities vacation different places... I didn't realize that Wilmington was a vacation destination! But then again, where I grew up the Florida Panhandle was the be all-end all of beach destinations


Two words for ILM : Outer Banks

ILM is actually quite far from the Outer Banks. Much more easier for travelers to use any of the airports in Southern Virginia.

There are some popular beaches near ILM (Bald Head Island, Sunset Beach, Oak Island, Topsail, etc.). They aren’t really to my taste as they are very much family and condo/beach house rental oriented but they are popular. ILM is decently sized city with attractions. It isn’t SAV or CHS but it is nice and has industry, especially film.


Ahhh I read somewhere Cape Fear on up was considered Outer Banks - From a closer look on a maps - that is a bit different.

A lot of my friends dive "Outer Banks" and tend to go out of Morehead City which is 90 miles away from ILM and EWN is closet. Boat rides to dive sites are long.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
kavok
Posts: 815
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:36 pm

ScottB wrote:
kavok wrote:
The ILM addition should work well for the local Wilmington business flyer, who is probably loyal to AA anyway, and now will have a direct flight to BOS.


AA won't get much business travel with a weekly Saturday-only flight. This is pretty much a beach vacation special. I'm surprised they're not doing BOS-MYR instead for golfers


Good point, as I missed the Saturday-only part. You are correct. More opportunistic flying by AA.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:39 pm

I see BOS/GSO and/or BOS/AVL as the next steps in the "DL:Georgia::AA:NC" chess game. Eaton, GE Aviation, and other biz travellers in AVL, many financial industry travelers in the Triad, all of whom would rather not connect through the nightmare that is CLT in bank-time.
 
wenders825
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:29 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:40 pm

AA will be running all E175 on the routes. YX is indeed doing the flying - I suspect IND has a lot to do with that being YX's main base, though also a great opportunity for AA to spoil B6's entry
 
nc3rd
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:52 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:50 pm

I think this is as much about Wilmingtonians visiting Boston in the summer (and points beyond) as it is this other way around.
The views written above are mine and mine alone and do not represent any official information from any airline or company
 
realsim
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:19 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:54 pm

Since AA announced the end of the non-sense cornerstone strategy and launched BOS-AUS/LHR and AUS-SJC, I was fully expecting that one of the next moves would be resuming BOS-RDU (and CMH).

Back in 2009-2010, the last p2p routes that survived until the launch of the cornerstone strategy were the following:

AUS-SJC
BOS-AUA/CDG/CMH/DCA/LHR/PLS/RDU/SDQ/SFO/SJU/STT/YYZ
DCA-BNA/BOS/RDU/STL
FLL-KIN/PAP/SJO
SFO-BOS/HNL/SNA
RDU-BDL/BOS/CMH/DCA/LHR
SJC-AUS/SAN/SNA
STL-DCA/SEA

As you can see, what AA is doing right now is relaunching some of the routes above. In fact, when DL decided to launch more p2p flying, they started precisely by many of the routes above that AA had vacated just before, so AA is just amending a mistake that should have never happened.

Of course, some of the above routes will hardly come back, but if the new additions work, I expect more BOS and RDU additions (IMHO, AA should not let DL have a focus city in the same state and just 150 miles apart from AA's second most important hub).
 
ScottB
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:08 pm

tphuang wrote:
AA is at worst a #3 at BOS. At NYC, they are #4 now. They are at an irreversible position in NYC due to their cuts and loss of ff. Their declines at certainly JFK markets in the past 2 years is pretty awful. If they don't do something at BOS, they will start losing a lot of ff there too. Just by adding a few important domestic market, AA could re-affirm their position as legacy of choice out of BOS. Who cares they don't fly to BUF or CLE or MKE or JAX if they have the best combined schedules to NYC/DC/London/LA/Chicago/Philadelphia/Dallas?


AA is less than 8% behind B6 in NYC and I'd argue that EWR and JFK/LGA have relatively limited overlap. I don't think AA's position in NYC is unrecoverable -- I just don't think current management can or will fix it. DoUgIe handed LGA to DL on a silver platter because the Tempe braintrust didn't understand how to make money at LGA. Even now AA seems more focused on routes with limited competition from LGA rather than the places New Yorkers want to go. They fly non-stop to CAK, ROA, CHO, and BGR -- but not to DEN, FLL, or IAH.

RDU and IND won't make AA the domestic carrier of choice from BOS if they don't serve DEN or ATL or MCO or TPA. And Delta's impressive transatlantic expansion from BOS will make it that much more difficult for AA to be the legacy of choice. I'd rather connect at AMS over LHR any day of the week.

tphuang wrote:
AA dropped BOS-PIT because it was a giant bloodbath that really doesn't seem to be as important of a business market as the recent ones they added. There is no chance DL survives on that route if there is a recession or oil spike. And that applies to a lot of routes DL has out of BOS. AA might have fewer gates at BOS but those gates are used much less heavily. They need to keep using them to not lose gates. There is plenty of room for them to add more. DL is close to being tapped out at terminal A. As for currying favor with massport, AA also started PHL-ORH and they have certainly lost gates at BOS already.

Think about it this way. B6 is adding close to 30% capacity at BOS YoY this summer. DL's response have been cutting back to Florida, adding a flight to CVG, AUS and SEA.


Except BOS-PIT was a market with lots of frequent flyer loyalty at both ends. PIT was US's largest hub until their first bankruptcy. BOS was a major US focus city -- they had 200 daily departures back in the 1990s. Heck, BOS-RDU was once an AA hub-to-hub route and they dropped that. Given the track record, I can't understand why you'd think AA would be more willing to sustain losses at BOS than DL.

I suspect that DL will upgauge to 717s and A220s if they choose to grow at BOS, just as a fair bit of B6's growth is also from increase of gauge.
 
braniff2hav
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:20 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:28 pm

This is wonderful .. to see AA branching out... LOL But it also reveals such a lack of strategy. SMH
 
FSDan
Posts: 3281
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AA launching BOS to 3 new cities

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:36 pm

realsim wrote:
IMHO, AA should not let DL have a focus city in the same state and just 150 miles apart from AA's second most important hub.


A little too late for that at this point...
This is my signature until I think of a better one.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos