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smithbs
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:28 pm

I was going to ask about AS, but with B6 already mentioned I'm afraid the thread will divert off into AS-B6 merger land.
 
CALMSP
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:29 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Well of Course Tim would like to bury the hatchet with Delta. They wanted to bury their hatchet as well. Right into Emirates. Water under the Bridge my Foot! they can't generate any Feed on their OWN and don't want to join an alliance. So maybe Delta will? or won't . United won't join with them as they would rather fly TO Dubai on their OWN metal. They're already done it and would do it again so there's no point IN partnering with United or the Star Alliance. JBLU is the one carrier that might benefit from partnering with Emirates.


B6 and EK already partner together.
 
amax1977
Posts: 252
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:37 pm

QR & AA recently resumed their partnership beside both being OW members. DL & EK partnership doesn't make much sense as they had bloody fights in the past. UA & EK partnership makes the most sense as they've worked well together in the past.
 
Antarius
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:39 pm

amax1977 wrote:
QR & AA recently resumed their partnership beside both being OW members. DL & EK partnership doesn't make much sense as they had bloody fights in the past. UA & EK partnership makes the most sense as they've worked well together in the past.


Airlines make decisions based on what makes them money, not emotion. With the right financial arrangement, never say never.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
jayunited
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:41 pm

Any partnership with the US3 will come at a high cost, seeing none of them particularly like EK. A partnership between EK and any one of the US3 would probably require EK agree to end many if not all of their Europe-US-Europe 5th freedom flights. This has been a sore spot for the US3 and their European JV partners. On the flip side EK would probably want the US carrier to funnel as much Indian, African, and Southeast Asia traffic onto their (meaning EK's) US outbound flights to DXB, but at the same time the US carrier would probably have to agree to stay out of DXB.

EK may agree to cease some of their 5th freedom flights, and I think US carriers would agree to stay out of DXB, the sticking point would be India. From the US, travel to India is EK's bread and butter but India is also important to the US3. Just prior to COVID AA announced their return to India and both DL and UA had just recently added new nonstop flights. I think the price of partnership with AA, DL, or UA would be to high for either side to pay, leaving B6 as the only logical choice.

With the right aircraft B6 will be able to reach some Western Europe cities, EK can use their 5th freedom rights to extend B6's reach. There would be no disagreements over India, Africa, or Southeast Asia because B6 does not have the right aircraft to reach those destinations.
 
Jefford717
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:53 pm

Antarius wrote:
amax1977 wrote:
QR & AA recently resumed their partnership beside both being OW members. DL & EK partnership doesn't make much sense as they had bloody fights in the past. UA & EK partnership makes the most sense as they've worked well together in the past.


Airlines make decisions based on what makes them money, not emotion. With the right financial arrangement, never say never.


Totally Agreed. Let me give you another example; the A380 failed because it was tailored made for the flying public instead of airlines.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:56 pm

CALMSP wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Well of Course Tim would like to bury the hatchet with Delta. They wanted to bury their hatchet as well. Right into Emirates. Water under the Bridge my Foot! they can't generate any Feed on their OWN and don't want to join an alliance. So maybe Delta will? or won't . United won't join with them as they would rather fly TO Dubai on their OWN metal. They're already done it and would do it again so there's no point IN partnering with United or the Star Alliance. JBLU is the one carrier that might benefit from partnering with Emirates.


B6 and EK already partner together.

.
My statement was meant that JBLU could use the partnership to expand into more major markets, Not just on the coasts, but into interior market spots as well. I know Emirates wants to be able to fill up an A380. But they might need to help generate their feed and partner not only with JBLU But other smaller Carriers as well if they don't want to join an alliance. Or? Prepare to take a bath on flying the A380 into the USA. They Have other airplanes with the range that could turn a profit on USA flying, but it remains to be seen what they want to do. If they try and High side Delta again? They Might regret it. As right now? Delta is doing Fine without them.. and I'm not totally sure they would just leave their Alliances to wither for EK..
 
ericm2031
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:57 pm

smithbs wrote:
I was going to ask about AS, but with B6 already mentioned I'm afraid the thread will divert off into AS-B6 merger land.


They already partner with AS. They partner with both of them.
 
Vicenza
Posts: 171
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:02 pm

Jefford717 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
amax1977 wrote:
QR & AA recently resumed their partnership beside both being OW members. DL & EK partnership doesn't make much sense as they had bloody fights in the past. UA & EK partnership makes the most sense as they've worked well together in the past.


Airlines make decisions based on what makes them money, not emotion. With the right financial arrangement, never say never.


Totally Agreed. Let me give you another example; the A380 failed because it was tailored made for the flying public instead of airlines.


So you're saying it's what they airlines want, not their customers? Interesting.
 
onwFan
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:10 pm

jayunited wrote:
Any partnership with the US3 will come at a high cost, seeing none of them particularly like EK. A partnership between EK and any one of the US3 would probably require EK agree to end many if not all of their Europe-US-Europe 5th freedom flights. This has been a sore spot for the US3 and their European JV partners. On the flip side EK would probably want the US carrier to funnel as much Indian, African, and Southeast Asia traffic onto their (meaning EK's) US outbound flights to DXB, but at the same time the US carrier would probably have to agree to stay out of DXB.

EK may agree to cease some of their 5th freedom flights, and I think US carriers would agree to stay out of DXB, the sticking point would be India. From the US, travel to India is EK's bread and butter but India is also important to the US3. Just prior to COVID AA announced their return to India and both DL and UA had just recently added new nonstop flights. I think the price of partnership with AA, DL, or UA would be to high for either side to pay, leaving B6 as the only logical choice.

With the right aircraft B6 will be able to reach some Western Europe cities, EK can use their 5th freedom rights to extend B6's reach. There would be no disagreements over India, Africa, or Southeast Asia because B6 does not have the right aircraft to reach those destinations.


Exactly. I believe one of the reasons why AA willing to partner with QR was also because of its membership in oneworld and their close relationship with IAG. EK wants to commit as little as possible, while at the same time extract all the benefits out of a US3 - it mostly ends up being one-sided. This is not the first time he has been quoted saying this. With QF already dropping DXB in favor of SIN and launching direct flights, it remains to be seen whether they will even renew their partnership with EK next time around.

For those suggesting DL, where exactly do they offer feed that is better than that offered by B6 or AS: JFK? BOS? LAX? SEA? In fact they are better off having B6/AS at all these places than DL.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:11 pm

EK wants to JV with a US3, but not join an alliance.

I can't see any of the alliances approving that. They would be colluding to undercut their partners in many instances.

I think QR belongs better in Star and EK in OW. Skyteam and Etihad are both too weak to add material value IMO.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:12 pm

I think DL and EK’s relationship is already too far gone for them or fix it.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:12 pm

jayunited wrote:
Any partnership with the US3 will come at a high cost, seeing none of them particularly like EK. A partnership between EK and any one of the US3 would probably require EK agree to end many if not all of their Europe-US-Europe 5th freedom flights. This has been a sore spot for the US3 and their European JV partners. On the flip side EK would probably want the US carrier to funnel as much Indian, African, and Southeast Asia traffic onto their (meaning EK's) US outbound flights to DXB, but at the same time the US carrier would probably have to agree to stay out of DXB.

EK may agree to cease some of their 5th freedom flights, and I think US carriers would agree to stay out of DXB, the sticking point would be India.


Cease, and stay out of, is language of collusion associated with reductions in competition. I don't see how any such discussions could occur before anti-trust immunity were granted, and IIRC, that takes an Open Skies JV under present U.S. policy.
 
panamair
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:02 pm

onwFan wrote:
For those suggesting DL, where exactly do they offer feed that is better than that offered by B6 or AS: JFK? BOS? LAX? SEA? In fact they are better off having B6/AS at all these places than DL.


Well, obviously Clark doesn't think his existing relationships are that comprehensive,.....or why would he be starting to look elsewhere? Notice what he is quoted as saying...

"...“We have to currently arrange access to low-cost carriers, or [passengers] make their own arrangements...."
 
YYZORD
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:44 pm

Emirates already has partnership with WS and with the WS/DL JV coming in place, DL is the best carrier for that.
 
FromGSPtoChi
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:55 pm

SEU wrote:
Emirates and Delta seem to be a good match.
United probably has hubs in more US cities that Emirates already flies too. Emirates could add ATL. The current hub setup would favor United over Delta for greater connectivity.
Last edited by FromGSPtoChi on Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:56 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
EK wants to JV with a US3, but not join an alliance.

I can't see any of the alliances approving that. They would be colluding to undercut their partners in many instances.

I think QR belongs better in Star and EK in OW. Skyteam and Etihad are both too weak to add material value IMO.


Alliances themselves have a murky future. DL's equity partner moves was a definitive different direction. Whether that can be sustained in a new environment is anyone's guess, but I don't think EK avoiding one of the alliances will have much bearing on partnering with one of the US3. It is the US3 JV partners that might be more concerned about it. That's a whole other issue which might stop this from happening.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:00 pm

EK's offer and US3 expectation would be way off. A low-margin carrier cannot partner with capacity disciplined carrier.

Hypothetical passthru for 1 hour feeder.
EK: $100 RT including two HUGE bags
US3: $300 RT plus baggage.
Good talk, bye.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:03 pm

My question is which airline with this hubs will benefit EK?

I personally believe its UA as they already fly to all their hubs with exception of DEN, it would be easy to expand a codeshare and route passengers into existing cities.

DL is the least likely, outside of ATL, there is no real connecting point for EK to use on the US side, BOS/LAX are limited and SEA involves to much back tracking and can you only do so much with JFK hub since most regional flying is out of LGA

AA is a tricky one, yes they just signed with QR but EK could benefit for Caribbean and Latin America feed from MIA. PHL would compliment the Northeast and have EKs JFK/BOS/IAD flights focus on O&D

AA-ORD/DFW/LAX/JFK served, FLL service would transfer to MIA and possibly add PHL, doubtful for CLT/PHX
DL-BOS/LAX/JFK/SEA served, they would likely start ATL, but doubtful you will see EK at DTW/MSP/SLC
UA-ORD/IAH/LAX/EWR/SFO/IAD served, DEN would be a given, all other hubs served
 
Ishrion
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:14 pm

xwb777 wrote:
I know the source might not be a strong credible source, it gives a hint of what went into the conversation during the webinar.


Original source:

Here: https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/ ... pportunity
Last edited by Ishrion on Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:18 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
They already partner with AS. They partner with both of them.

Given that AA and AS are getting cozy with each other and that EK already has a partnership with AS, I would have thought that a AA-AS-EK partnership would be ideal...until I was reminded that AA and QR are partners within oneworld.

Given that EK flies to more UA hubs than DL hubs, UA would seem like the next logical partner, though I don't know if MS and TK will be happy with a non-Star carrier taking priority over them.

Then, by process of elimination, DL is the last of the big 3. DL doesn't have any codeshare agreements with a Middle Eastern carrier so it is the only one EK can get cozy with, and EK already flies to 4 of DL's hubs so there IS some benefit to be had, though it does not fly to DL's 3 largest hubs.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
bcbhokie
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:23 pm

Given that DL and QR's interests align more closely now with the LATAM investment, I almost think it's more likely for EK to partner with AA or UA, and for QR to make the shift to working with Delta...
 
onwFan
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:41 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
EK wants to JV with a US3, but not join an alliance.

I can't see any of the alliances approving that. They would be colluding to undercut their partners in many instances.

I think QR belongs better in Star and EK in OW. Skyteam and Etihad are both too weak to add material value IMO.


Alliances themselves have a murky future. DL's equity partner moves was a definitive different direction. Whether that can be sustained in a new environment is anyone's guess, but I don't think EK avoiding one of the alliances will have much bearing on partnering with one of the US3. It is the US3 JV partners that might be more concerned about it. That's a whole other issue which might stop this from happening.


People just keep saying this all the time. Just because DL or SkyTeam have not been able to get their act together doesn't mean alliances have a murky future. Of course, SkyTeam definitely has a murky future - every year at least one carrier wants to leave it. Despite minor hiccups here and there, both Star Alliance and oneworld carriers have and still continue to work extremely well for both the carriers and their customers. By the way, DL's equity partner approach was definitely not a different direction: in fact, it was the older and proved to be futile direction: ask Swissair or Etihad. And we are seeing that happening all over again...

As Jeffrey Goh, CEO of Star rightly pointed out, this is a time when alliances are going to be even more important. The benefit of an international network when carriers are not able to connect the dots themselves will be extremely useful, especially in the ramp up phase post covid.
 
onwFan
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:45 pm

bcbhokie wrote:
Given that DL and QR's interests align more closely now with the LATAM investment, I almost think it's more likely for EK to partner with AA or UA, and for QR to make the shift to working with Delta...

Nice joke.
 
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klm617
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:57 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
My question is which airline with this hubs will benefit EK?

I personally believe its UA as they already fly to all their hubs with exception of DEN, it would be easy to expand a codeshare and route passengers into existing cities.

DL is the least likely, outside of ATL, there is no real connecting point for EK to use on the US side, BOS/LAX are limited and SEA involves to much back tracking and can you only do so much with JFK hub since most regional flying is out of LGA

AA is a tricky one, yes they just signed with QR but EK could benefit for Caribbean and Latin America feed from MIA. PHL would compliment the Northeast and have EKs JFK/BOS/IAD flights focus on O&D

AA-ORD/DFW/LAX/JFK served, FLL service would transfer to MIA and possibly add PHL, doubtful for CLT/PHX
DL-BOS/LAX/JFK/SEA served, they would likely start ATL, but doubtful you will see EK at DTW/MSP/SLC
UA-ORD/IAH/LAX/EWR/SFO/IAD served, DEN would be a given, all other hubs served


Actually DTW is quite ripe for an ME3 carrier maybe more so than ATL being QR is already on site there offering rock bottom fares.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
jayunited
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:32 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Any partnership with the US3 will come at a high cost, seeing none of them particularly like EK. A partnership between EK and any one of the US3 would probably require EK agree to end many if not all of their Europe-US-Europe 5th freedom flights. This has been a sore spot for the US3 and their European JV partners. On the flip side EK would probably want the US carrier to funnel as much Indian, African, and Southeast Asia traffic onto their (meaning EK's) US outbound flights to DXB, but at the same time the US carrier would probably have to agree to stay out of DXB.

EK may agree to cease some of their 5th freedom flights, and I think US carriers would agree to stay out of DXB, the sticking point would be India.


Cease, and stay out of, is language of collusion associated with reductions in competition. I don't see how any such discussions could occur before anti-trust immunity were granted, and IIRC, that takes an Open Skies JV under present U.S. policy.



Officially you are correct, there could be no official talks about cease and stay out. At the same time you know the sticking points between the US3 and for the most part EK to a lesser extend QR. I don't see how a any of the US3 turn a blind eye to EK's encroachment in the European TATL market through the use of 5th freedom flights. EK can't be to happy with the US3's expansion into India. In order for there to be a partnership between any one of the US3 carriers and EK both sides would demand changes, how those discussions take place "legally" without a JV is for the lawyers to figure out.

Also a partnership between any US3 carrier and EK would have unintended consequences on their European JV partner. All 3 US carriers still rely heavily on their European JV partners to carry passengers between the US and many destinations in India, and Africa.

I still stand by my statement the price of partnership is to high.
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 292
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:32 pm

klm617 wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
My question is which airline with this hubs will benefit EK?

I personally believe its UA as they already fly to all their hubs with exception of DEN, it would be easy to expand a codeshare and route passengers into existing cities.

DL is the least likely, outside of ATL, there is no real connecting point for EK to use on the US side, BOS/LAX are limited and SEA involves to much back tracking and can you only do so much with JFK hub since most regional flying is out of LGA

AA is a tricky one, yes they just signed with QR but EK could benefit for Caribbean and Latin America feed from MIA. PHL would compliment the Northeast and have EKs JFK/BOS/IAD flights focus on O&D

AA-ORD/DFW/LAX/JFK served, FLL service would transfer to MIA and possibly add PHL, doubtful for CLT/PHX
DL-BOS/LAX/JFK/SEA served, they would likely start ATL, but doubtful you will see EK at DTW/MSP/SLC
UA-ORD/IAH/LAX/EWR/SFO/IAD served, DEN would be a given, all other hubs served


Actually DTW is quite ripe for an ME3 carrier maybe more so than ATL being QR is already on site there offering rock bottom fares.

I would agree. RJ has managed DTW for years. Lots of connections options in DTW as well.

Looking at what airports currently has flights is looking backwards; it’s all about what could be added and be offered.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1818
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:45 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
My question is which airline with this hubs will benefit EK?

I personally believe its UA as they already fly to all their hubs with exception of DEN, it would be easy to expand a codeshare and route passengers into existing cities.

DL is the least likely, outside of ATL, there is no real connecting point for EK to use on the US side, BOS/LAX are limited and SEA involves to much back tracking and can you only do so much with JFK hub since most regional flying is out of LGA

AA is a tricky one, yes they just signed with QR but EK could benefit for Caribbean and Latin America feed from MIA. PHL would compliment the Northeast and have EKs JFK/BOS/IAD flights focus on O&D

AA-ORD/DFW/LAX/JFK served, FLL service would transfer to MIA and possibly add PHL, doubtful for CLT/PHX
DL-BOS/LAX/JFK/SEA served, they would likely start ATL, but doubtful you will see EK at DTW/MSP/SLC
UA-ORD/IAH/LAX/EWR/SFO/IAD served, DEN would be a given, all other hubs served


This seems to be a pertinent point. If it's really about getting more U.S. traffic to EK flights, without EK having to fly to more U.S. cities, then it's about U.S. hubs with the most domestic flights to connect to EK flights. The carrot is that it's a two-way street as well. But as was pointed out, the US3 are already paired up with European carriers that provide connections to many of the same cities.
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:53 pm

People talk about these ‘5th Freedom’ flights as though they’re some big thing. How many of them are there?
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3053
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:00 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
People talk about these ‘5th Freedom’ flights as though they’re some big thing. How many of them are there?


For the U.S. Emirates only has ATH-EWR and MXP-JFK. There’s dozens of other ones in other countries such as BCN-MEX, SYD-CHC, SIN-MEL.
 
HVN2HEL2LAX
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:19 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Well of Course Tim would like to bury the hatchet with Delta. They wanted to bury their hatchet as well. Right into Emirates. Water under the Bridge my Foot! they can't generate any Feed on their OWN and don't want to join an alliance. So maybe Delta will? or won't . United won't join with them as they would rather fly TO Dubai on their OWN metal. They're already done it and would do it again so there's no point IN partnering with United or the Star Alliance. JBLU is the one carrier that might benefit from partnering with Emirates.


Yea, well, DL is subsidized by a government. So DL should take that hatchet into its own gut.
 
J343
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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:59 pm

If I'm not mistaken, EK was invited to join oneworld with the invitation coming from BA. An EK-AA partnership would then have been good. I guess he was led by his own arrogance
 
TObound
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:11 am

So EK wants one of the US3 to throw their European and Asian alliance partners under the bus? Not happening.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3710
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:38 am

panamair wrote:
onwFan wrote:
For those suggesting DL, where exactly do they offer feed that is better than that offered by B6 or AS: JFK? BOS? LAX? SEA? In fact they are better off having B6/AS at all these places than DL.


Well, obviously Clark doesn't think his existing relationships are that comprehensive,.....or why would he be starting to look elsewhere? Notice what he is quoted as saying...
"...“We have to currently arrange access to low-cost carriers, or [passengers] make their own arrangements...."


Surely you realize... some A.net posters are much more knowledgeable and informed than the head of the airline...

:roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 256
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:23 am

FromGSPtoChi wrote:
SEU wrote:
Emirates and Delta seem to be a good match.
United probably has hubs in more US cities that Emirates already flies too. Emirates could add ATL. The current hub setup would favor United over Delta for greater connectivity.


True. But EK could simply add DTW and ATL and they would be at the DL hubs of ATL, DTW, BOS, SEA, JFK, and LAX. LGA is simply a domestic hub so only SLC and MSP would not have EK which is not a big deal. I think in this case EK would be looking at for example passengers flying GEG-SEA-DXB-DEL or MSY-ATL-DXB type routings.

What would be interesting is if EK and DL do become JV partners, I wonder if EK and LA would consider becoming partners. It would give EK great access into S. America, especially if they also switched from FLL to MIA.

Forget SkyTeam. If DL could get a JV with EK their other major world partners would be KL, AF, VS, VA, WS, AM, LA, MU, and KE. That would be an impressive line up and give DL pretty much coverage globally. It would help their India void as well. They would only need an African partner if they wanted to go after that area and I would think KQ or maybe even ET could come in and fill that.
 
onwFan
Posts: 478
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:17 am

panamair wrote:
onwFan wrote:
For those suggesting DL, where exactly do they offer feed that is better than that offered by B6 or AS: JFK? BOS? LAX? SEA? In fact they are better off having B6/AS at all these places than DL.


Well, obviously Clark doesn't think his existing relationships are that comprehensive,.....or why would he be starting to look elsewhere? Notice what he is quoted as saying...

"...“We have to currently arrange access to low-cost carriers, or [passengers] make their own arrangements...."

If you read, my comments were not about him not wanting to look 'elsewhere'; they were specifically with respect to DL as a partner option. In case you weren't aware, there are other non-LCC carriers besides DL in the US, and the network of some of those carriers like UA would be a better match for EK and when compared to B6/AS or DL.
 
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MatheusLPV
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:39 am

onwFan wrote:
bcbhokie wrote:
Given that DL and QR's interests align more closely now with the LATAM investment, I almost think it's more likely for EK to partner with AA or UA, and for QR to make the shift to working with Delta...

Nice joke.


I was thinking about that and to be honest make total sense but I don't know if QR would walk away from AA and OW to partner with DL... for me UA seems to be the logical match but not the perfect one ....
 
Varsity1
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:08 am

TObound wrote:
So EK wants one of the US3 to throw their European and Asian alliance partners under the bus? Not happening.


This is what I read too.

They have to join an alliance to play ball.
 
xwb777
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:13 pm

A final decision regarding the fleet and upcoming orders will be announced in few months

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... 3923Z?il=0
 
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Revelation
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:29 pm

brilondon wrote:
I believe that is the reason that the A380 is useless as a freighter only aircraft. The floors need to be strengthened.

Leeham/Hamilton tries to make the counter point ( https://leehamnews.com/2020/06/03/there ... more-33578 ) suggesting A380s can be used to carry e-commerce using floors as-is with either pallets or rollers on the seat rails, but IMO is not convincing.

The only thing A380 brings to the table presumably is dirt cheap acquisition cost. All the other negatives ( high trip cost, poor efficiency, four engines with aging engine tech, over built for future stretch ) remain. It's also going out of production soon. It is noted infrastructure will be needed to access the 2nd deck and that landing gear size makes the lower hold less spacious. I'm not sure why an airline would go with such an inefficient, dead end vehicle.

Meanwhile, QR says their A380s will not fly for another year or more ( ref: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-healt ... KKBN2391FA ).
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:00 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
People talk about these ‘5th Freedom’ flights as though they’re some big thing. How many of them are there?


The complete list of worldwide 5th freedom flights is here - updated 28 January 2020.

https://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/fifth-freedom-routes/
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
9Patch
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:53 pm

brilondon wrote:
I believe that is the reason that the A380 is useless as a freighter only aircraft. The floors need to be strengthened.

Airbus said a Passenger-to-Freighter conversion of the A380 would be technically feasible.
https://leehamnews.com/2020/06/03/there ... you-think/
Last edited by 9Patch on Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Strato2
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:06 pm

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -orderbook

Unfortunately for some the Superjumbo is here to stay:

The executive said the model still has a future with the carrier and will come into its own again in a few years.


The same might not be said of some critical orders for other models:

“All bets are off,” Tim Clark, the Dubai-based carrier’s president, said in a online forum Monday. “We are nowhere near confident enough that the economics, the cash flows, the bottom line will put us in a good position to be able to guess if we’ll buy a hundred of this or a hundred of that.”
 
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par13del
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:16 pm

Well if social distancing is required on a/c for long haul travel, which a/c has the most space?
I am not saying this is ideal, the economics may be even worse, but if your competitors are struggling to get 150 pax in an a/c due to leaving seats empty, one can get much more than that in an A380. It will still be a loss leader but in times of a pandemic and persons still in fear, some pax may be comforted by an airline giving them loads of space to make them comfortable. The marketing question is whether such considerations will make them repeat customers when things get better.

Just a thought for the A380 lovers looking for a reason for the a/c to maintain its place in the sky.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:27 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Unfortunately for some the Superjumbo is here to stay:

Yes, and most of the misfortune falls on EK itself since COVID-19 has struck down their plans to acquire newer, more efficient planes which leaves them stuck trying to make the best of a bad situation. Now they are stuck with 115+ A380s that are ill suited for the post-covid world and are stuck with the thankless mission of trying to convince Airbus to not make them take delivery of more A380s that are already in the process of being built.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
9Patch
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:34 pm

Strato2 wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-01/emirates-says-crisis-has-cast-doubt-over-entire-jet-orderbook

Unfortunately for some the Superjumbo is here to stay:

The executive said the model still has a future with the carrier and will come into its own again in a few years.

Talk about cherry picking your quotes.
You left out the preceding sentence that says:

Emirates is seeking to cancel its last A380 orders and is considering accelerating the retirement of its older superjumbos, Bloomberg reported previously.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:40 pm

Revelation wrote:
Strato2 wrote:
Unfortunately for some the Superjumbo is here to stay:

Yes, and most of the misfortune falls on EK itself since COVID-19 has struck down their plans to acquire newer, more efficient planes which leaves them stuck trying to make the best of a bad situation. Now they are stuck with 115+ A380s that are ill suited for the post-covid world and are stuck with the thankless mission of trying to convince Airbus to not make them take delivery of more A380s that are already in the process of being built.


We must include the 77W's in this. EK's prior decisions as mangled by COVID will have their fleet basically A380's and 77W's. The 77W's are cost competitive today with fuel prices low, but if their current 787 and 350 orders are deferred by say 5 years on average, EK will be competing against others that retired their worst planes and are now flying 787's and A350's and providing direct flights too. So it will be tough to get customers for convenience or cost, not a winning hand.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:52 pm

I've been saying forever that DL and EK want a partnership.... they just haven't been able to decide who gets to top and who's gonna be bottom. That's all this has been about.

eta unknown wrote:
EK used to have a frequent flyer arrangement with UA, but I doubt revisiting that is on the cards.

And DL, and CO.


TObound wrote:
So EK wants one of the US3 to throw their European and Asian alliance partners under the bus? Not happening.

Who says they have to? EK can codeshare on that carrier's every single N.American op, and that wouldn't affect the Euro's ability to do so.

And as far as the US3 carrier, it can carve out locales where EK would be preferred. Most notably in Africa and S.Asia.
It's not all that dissimilar to DL's current J/Vs with the Virgins, outside of SkyTeam.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Emirates wants to partner with a US3 airline.

Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:30 pm

onwFan wrote:
Just because DL or SkyTeam have not been able to get their act together doesn't mean alliances have a murky future. Of course, SkyTeam definitely has a murky future - every year at least one carrier wants to leave it.

Nothing you just said there is based in fact.

All three of the alliances have only had a single carrier leave them for reasons other than (1) merger or (2) going out of business.

    Aer Lingus - Oneworld
    China Southern - SkyTeam
    Blue1 - Star Alliance

...that's it. One each. Despite what you seem to be imagining.

And even if one does could merger and cessation; both Oneworld (and especially Star) have lost way more carriers than SkyTeam's grand total of 3; and yes, that even accounts for the fact that Star is larger.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Scotron12
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:39 pm

xwb777 wrote:
A final decision regarding the fleet and upcoming orders will be announced in few months

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... 3923Z?il=0


I feel the B787 and A350 orders are safer than the B779s, only coz the B787 and A350s are not due until 2023/2024. The B779s on order will...or have be reduced. There is no passenger demand for it.

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