Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

behramjee · Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:23 pm

As per filing on major GDS systems, Emirates announces TPE nonstop increased from daily to 10 weekly effective 05Jun.

New 3 weekly flights to be operated with B77W on Days 5/6/7

EK 328 Dep DXB 1105 Arr TPE 2340
EK 329 Dep TPE 0240 Arr DXB 0720

P2P demand between the two cities over the past year was 61,000 pax round trip.

The current daily A380 service remains as is.

Ishrion · Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:24 pm

Funny, with Starlux being the “Emirates of Asia”

edealinfo · Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:49 pm

Wouldn’t it have been better to increase service by 2x weekly a380 than 3X weekly 777, so as to ensure product consistency?

edealinfo · Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:50 pm

What is the max frequency that Emirates is allowed to operate on the route per the bilateral or is it open skies?

WPvsMW · Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:02 pm

Any ideas about what is driving the growth in demand? It can't be shopping in Dubai, or v.v. Cheaper one-stops to the EU? New Emirati-funded infrastructure project? Whatever the network planners see, it's good for Taiwan, and some good work by the TW Commercial Office in Dubai.

directorguy · Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:09 am

I notice that both flights arrive back in DXB just a couple hours apart. Basically both feed the same 8-10 am Euro/Middle East departures bank. Is there a reasoning behind this?

RyanairGuru · Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:14 am

directorguy wrote:
I notice that both flights arrive back in DXB just a couple hours apart. Basically both feed the same 8-10 am Euro/Middle East departures bank. Is there a reasoning behind this?

A few routes now have both an 05:00 and 07:00 arrival. The departure wave now stretches from 07:30 to 10:30, so an 05:00 arrival means that some connections have a 5+ hour transit.

migair54 · Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:54 am

I think cargo will be a big factor behind this new freq increase.

behramjee · Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:00 am

directorguy wrote:
I notice that both flights arrive back in DXB just a couple hours apart. Basically both feed the same 8-10 am Euro/Middle East departures bank. Is there a reasoning behind this?

In 2018, the top 10 markets feeding EK's TPE service were (rank wise):

IST
CAI
BCN
LIS
MAD
LHR
VIE
FCO
PRG
CMN

So as you can see from the above top 10 list, these destinations all have flights departing DXB in the 0600-0900 hub wave bank.

Malayil · Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:37 pm

behramjee wrote:
directorguy wrote:
I notice that both flights arrive back in DXB just a couple hours apart. Basically both feed the same 8-10 am Euro/Middle East departures bank. Is there a reasoning behind this?

In 2018, the top 10 markets feeding EK's TPE service were (rank wise):

IST
CAI
BCN
LIS
MAD
LHR
VIE
FCO
PRG
CMN

So as you can see from the above top 10 list, these destinations all have flights departing DXB in the 0600-0900 hub wave bank.

How did you find this information? Would love to see this information for all of EK's destinations.

leftcoast8 · Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:33 pm

behramjee wrote:
directorguy wrote:
I notice that both flights arrive back in DXB just a couple hours apart. Basically both feed the same 8-10 am Euro/Middle East departures bank. Is there a reasoning behind this?

In 2018, the top 10 markets feeding EK's TPE service were (rank wise):

IST
CAI
BCN
LIS
MAD
LHR
VIE
FCO
PRG
CMN

So as you can see from the above top 10 list, these destinations all have flights departing DXB in the 0600-0900 hub wave bank.

Where'd you score that info?

smi0006 · Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:52 pm

behramjee wrote:
directorguy wrote:
I notice that both flights arrive back in DXB just a couple hours apart. Basically both feed the same 8-10 am Euro/Middle East departures bank. Is there a reasoning behind this?

In 2018, the top 10 markets feeding EK's TPE service were (rank wise):

IST
CAI
BCN
LIS
MAD
LHR
VIE
FCO
PRG
CMN

So as you can see from the above top 10 list, these destinations all have flights departing DXB in the 0600-0900 hub wave bank.

Interesting! And also I’d imagine 5/6 would not have enough of a market for their own non-stops.... once again showing the ability for the ME3+TK to connect fragmented markets.

LHR01 · Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:42 pm

Hi all,

Just out of coincidence I saw this on a Instagram page under the name of (zul_aviation)
https://www.instagram.com/p/B70sYebBp8p ... ode4ri1xu1

New A380s arriving in 2020;
A6-EVL - May
A6-EVM - June
A6-EVN - November
Aircraft's leaving in 2020
777-300ER;
A6-EBB - March
A6-EBC - April
A6-EBE - August
A6-EBG - October
A6-EBI - December
A6-EBJ - December
A6-ECL - December
A380;
A6-EDF - June
A6-EDJ - July
A6-EDB - September

Nice piece of information from the Instagram page.
With 7 777-300ER leaving this year, are Emirates expected more A380s to be delivered in 2021? Or are they the last 3 left?

SQ317 · Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:34 am

EK have 8 A380s left on order

VV · Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:47 am

In three years they will have five aircraft types in the fleet if they keep their current orders.

Scotron12 · Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:08 am

VV wrote:
In three years they will have five aircraft types in the fleet if they keep their current orders.

Potentially seven if they take the B778s and the A339s.

VV · Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:46 am

Scotron12 wrote:
VV wrote:
In three years they will have five aircraft types in the fleet if they keep their current orders.

Potentially seven if they take the B778s and the A339s.

Well, 777-9 and 777-8 is in the same family and both are quite similar.

As for the A330-900, I do not think they ordered it (yet).
Wouldn't it be more reasonable to expand the 777-9 order to 777-10 instead of taking A330-900? But who knows what Emirates would do.

VSMUT · Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:09 am

VV wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
VV wrote:
In three years they will have five aircraft types in the fleet if they keep their current orders.

Potentially seven if they take the B778s and the A339s.

Well, 777-9 and 777-8 is in the same family and both are quite similar.

As for the A330-900, I do not think they ordered it (yet).
Wouldn't it be more reasonable to expand the 777-9 order to 777-10 instead of taking A330-900? But who knows what Emirates would do.

Airbus received a firm order for 40 A330-900 just before new year. It is suspected it is Emirates.

As for 777X vs A330-900:
They are vastly different, not really comparable at all. The A330-900 is a medium sized regional workhorse, the 777X is an ULR large airplane. There is also no such thing as a 777-10.

kaitak · Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:15 am

How many aircraft in storage now at DWC? I thought there were quite a few, due to crew shortages?

VSMUT · Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:29 am

kaitak wrote:
How many aircraft in storage now at DWC? I thought there were quite a few, due to crew shortages?

It varies, but around the last airshow there was only 1 or 2.

charles022 · Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:47 am

Is anyone aware what is happening with A6-EOP? Will it be repaired or is it a w/o?

QF744ER · Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:40 am

Further to this has EK actually started dismantling any A380’s for parts yet?

mjoelnir · Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:38 am

QF744ER wrote:
Further to this has EK actually started dismantling any A380’s for parts yet?

Not yet. The frames stored in DWC, at the moment A6-EDE and -EDG, are there days or weeks and than are rotated into service again.

Emirates has now 115 A380 and expects 8 more.

mjoelnir · Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:43 am

Emirates has significantly reduced the 777 numbers.
There are now 10 777-200LR, 134 777-300ER and 11 777F together 155 777.
The 12 777-300 left the fleet and 12 777-300ER
There were 156 passenger 777 when the fleet reached its top. Now there are 144.

LHR01 · Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:07 pm

charles022 wrote:
Is anyone aware what is happening with A6-EOP? Will it be repaired or is it a w/o?

Looks like A6-EOP is pinging on FlightRadar24. Maybe a test flight soon?

LHR01 · Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:25 pm

A6-EBB has been on the ground since 02.02.2020
A6-EBC has been on he ground since 19.02.2020

EBC is being planned to go to Air Atlanta Icelandic as TF-ACA

frigatebird · Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:31 pm

VSMUT wrote:
VV wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:

Potentially seven if they take the B778s and the A339s.

Well, 777-9 and 777-8 is in the same family and both are quite similar.

As for the A330-900, I do not think they ordered it (yet).
Wouldn't it be more reasonable to expand the 777-9 order to 777-10 instead of taking A330-900? But who knows what Emirates would do.

Airbus received a firm order for 40 A330-900 just before new year. It is suspected it is Emirates.

Well some people made a wild guess it was Emirates. But it wasn't.

EK7777 · Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:44 am

LHR01 wrote:
charles022 wrote:
Is anyone aware what is happening with A6-EOP? Will it be repaired or is it a w/o?

Looks like A6-EOP is pinging on FlightRadar24. Maybe a test flight soon?

A6-EOP performed a 3+ hr test flight on the 29th of Feb.

Some pictures were posted on Twitter, it's been fully repaired by Airbus and got a fresh coat of paint as well.

Should hopefully return to service soon.

Milesdependent · Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:48 am

Which aircraft will have premium economy on them? Have not heard much on this.

EK7777 · Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:24 am

Milesdependent wrote:
Which aircraft will have premium economy on them? Have not heard much on this.

The 777X will be the first aircraft to be delivered with premium economy.

dc10bhx · Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:42 am

I am led to believe that A6-EOP is scheduled to operate the EK037/8 tonight DXB-BHX-DXB. We shall wait and see.

chiad · Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:15 am

frigatebird wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
VV wrote:

Well, 777-9 and 777-8 is in the same family and both are quite similar.

As for the A330-900, I do not think they ordered it (yet).
Wouldn't it be more reasonable to expand the 777-9 order to 777-10 instead of taking A330-900? But who knows what Emirates would do.

Airbus received a firm order for 40 A330-900 just before new year. It is suspected it is Emirates.

Well some people made a wild guess it was Emirates. But it wasn't.

It was HNA Group
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKBN20D2SZ

716131 · Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:34 pm

LHR01 wrote:
Hi all,

Just out of coincidence I saw this on a Instagram page under the name of (zul_aviation)
https://www.instagram.com/p/B70sYebBp8p ... ode4ri1xu1

New A380s arriving in 2020;
A6-EVL - May
A6-EVM - June
A6-EVN - November
Aircraft's leaving in 2020
777-300ER;
A6-EBB - March
A6-EBC - April
A6-EBE - August
A6-EBG - October
A6-EBI - December
A6-EBJ - December
A6-ECL - December
A380;
A6-EDF - June
A6-EDJ - July
A6-EDB - September

Nice piece of information from the Instagram page.
With 7 777-300ER leaving this year, are Emirates expected more A380s to be delivered in 2021? Or are they the last 3 left?

Is EK reducing number of fleet this year (not to mention due to the Coronavirus)?

EK7777 · Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:19 pm

SQ789 wrote:
LHR01 wrote:
Hi all,

Just out of coincidence I saw this on a Instagram page under the name of (zul_aviation)
https://www.instagram.com/p/B70sYebBp8p ... ode4ri1xu1

New A380s arriving in 2020;
A6-EVL - May
A6-EVM - June
A6-EVN - November
Aircraft's leaving in 2020
777-300ER;
A6-EBB - March
A6-EBC - April
A6-EBE - August
A6-EBG - October
A6-EBI - December
A6-EBJ - December
A6-ECL - December
A380;
A6-EDF - June
A6-EDJ - July
A6-EDB - September

Nice piece of information from the Instagram page.
With 7 777-300ER leaving this year, are Emirates expected more A380s to be delivered in 2021? Or are they the last 3 left?

Is EK reducing number of fleet this year (not to mention due to the Coronavirus)?

They're not retiring any aircraft due to corona virus.
The ones being mentioned in this post are retiring due to their leases expiring.

However, corona virus has resulted in temporary storage of 13 A380s at DWC.

EK7777 · Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:20 pm

dc10bhx wrote:
I am led to believe that A6-EOP is scheduled to operate the EK037/8 tonight DXB-BHX-DXB. We shall wait and see.

A6-EOP is en-route to BHX. Seems like all went well with the testing on Saturday.

dfwking · Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:39 am

Emirates is in talks to secure additional funding on top of the bailout given by the Dubai government. While the other two ME3 carriers are supported by governments with deep pockets, Dubai's government is not as deep pocketed and looks to be unable to support Emirates fully.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/emirates-airline-seeks-billions-loans-155348789.html

Since the Covid-19 pandemic is moving at different speeds in each country / continent, international long-haul travel could take longer to recover than domestic or short-haul international travel. In this environment, carriers like Emirates are going to need help for a longer period of time than American, European, or East Asian carriers.

Is it feasible for Emirates to secure such loans from private sources for a long period of time? Do they own they own aircraft to be put up as collateral? And what happens if they are not able to secure the loans and face a cash crunch?

MIflyer12 · Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:04 pm

Look for their ability to borrow on commercial markets as some fraction of their unencumbered assets - after you've deleted any value attributed to A380s for which there is obviously no market. Start with the most recent annual report.

lightsaber · Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:52 pm

Emirates will have to put everything up for collateral. Belt loaders, Air Stairs, fuel trucks, spare parts, aircraft, and anything else of value to ship outside of the UAE.

With how many countries are printing money, there is plenty to lend. The question is terms.

Dubai is subsidized by Emirates, this will be brutal for the city state. Abu Dhabi is over committed, so I have little/no home for Etihad. Qatar will be a loss leader...

With the new IST airport and growth of Ethiopian, EK has more competition. They will continue, but their years as the boogyman are over. This means tougher funding.

Lightsaber

mmo · Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:26 pm

The last time this happened they took a little drive up the road to AUH and got there with their hands out. In fact, the deal was supposed to include an equity stake. However, that was turned down by AUH and EK was provided a loan instead. I would expect the same thing to happen again. There is no way the UAE will allow EK to be placed in any type of jeopardy, just like they would not allow EY to fold.

hohd · Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:36 pm

Correct, may be Dubai may not have enough money to loan/grant to EK, but there is no way that UAE will allow EK to get into any further trouble. When EK prospers the entire country prospers.

FLALEFTY · Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:49 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Look for their ability to borrow on commercial markets as some fraction of their unencumbered assets - after you've deleted any value attributed to A380s for which there is obviously no market. Start with the most recent annual report.

I think I read that Emirates is asking Airbus to defer the last 8 A388's left on their order until they are back on their feet after the crisis. I imagine they are also talking to Boeing to defer initial deliveries of the B779's due next year. While they have "firm orders" for A359's and B789's, I imagine first deliveries of those will be deferred, or even canceled, too.

TObound · Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:51 pm

EK bankrolls Dubai. Despite everyone thinking it's the other way around, EK is a profit centre for the Government of Dubai. And more importantly an economic enabler and multiplier that brings tourists, investors and commerce through the city. Dubai will never be in a position to substantially bail out EK because any hit to EK means a simultaneous and amplified hit to Dubai Inc.

There's an obvious way out.

1) Merge EY and EK.
2) Centralize at DWC.
3) Build rail transit to Dubai and Abu Dhabi.
4) Close DXB and use the freed up real estate for other purposes.

Now let's see if the Al-Maktoums can swallow their pride and save their emirate.

Vladex · Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:54 pm

It must be for expansion , maybe to restart A380 production. EK hasn't really lost money and is losing minimal amounts now, in fact they restarted some flights.

Revelation · Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:30 pm

TObound wrote:
EK bankrolls Dubai. Despite everyone thinking it's the other way around, EK is a profit centre for the Government of Dubai. And more importantly an economic enabler and multiplier that brings tourists, investors and commerce through the city. Dubai will never be in a position to substantially bail out EK because any hit to EK means a simultaneous and amplified hit to Dubai Inc.

There's an obvious way out.

1) Merge EY and EK.
2) Centralize at DWC.
3) Build rail transit to Dubai and Abu Dhabi.
4) Close DXB and use the freed up real estate for other purposes.

Now let's see if the Al-Maktoums can swallow their pride and save their emirate.

It's kind of interesting that your path to redemption involves having the emirs swallow their pride, meanwhile those emirs took money away from building out DWC to fund Dubai Expo 2020 said to cost $33B USD / 121B AED ( ref: https://lovindubai.com/expo-2020/expo-p ... l-cost/amp ) which was all about building up their pride.

It's interesting how this site has so many proposals that make sense logically but are totally opposite of the actions of the people making the decisions.

CALMSP · Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:47 pm

Vladex wrote:
It must be for expansion , maybe to restart A380 production. EK hasn't really lost money and is losing minimal amounts now, in fact they restarted some flights.

define minimal amounts. There is no way that EK is different from other airlines that are losing millions every day.

Scotron12 · Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:00 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Look for their ability to borrow on commercial markets as some fraction of their unencumbered assets - after you've deleted any value attributed to A380s for which there is obviously no market. Start with the most recent annual report.

I think I read that Emirates is asking Airbus to defer the last 8 A388's left on their order until they are back on their feet after the crisis. I imagine they are also talking to Boeing to defer initial deliveries of the B779's due next year. While they have "firm orders" for A359's and B789's, I imagine first deliveries of those will be deferred, or even canceled, too.

Seeing as right now all production is shut down in Washington State, difficult to guess when/if the first B779 gets delivered to any airline. Maybe in 6-9 months the picture will be a bit clearer, but right now, I don't see any B779 deliveries next year.

xwb777 · Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:43 pm

Just my personal opinion, if EK really needs the loan for their operations, I think the UAE government will help EK from falling, as the falling of Emirates is not good for the UAE's image. Dubai government might also want to bailout Flydubai.

Vladex · Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:56 pm

CALMSP wrote:
Vladex wrote:
It must be for expansion , maybe to restart A380 production. EK hasn't really lost money and is losing minimal amounts now, in fact they restarted some flights.

define minimal amounts. There is no way that EK is different from other airlines that are losing millions every day.

It's widely known that among others Etihad , Qatar and Cathay in the last year have lost lots of money. On the other hand US3 will be losing lots of money because of their 10 hubs each slow shutdown and very painful restart. EK is obviously different and they were flying almost normally and then had instant shutdown. Also their brand is way above others and the few passengers will be looking for something reliable when they do restart.

Western727 · Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:20 pm

TObound wrote:
EK bankrolls Dubai. Despite everyone thinking it's the other way around, EK is a profit centre for the Government of Dubai. And more importantly an economic enabler and multiplier that brings tourists, investors and commerce through the city. Dubai will never be in a position to substantially bail out EK because any hit to EK means a simultaneous and amplified hit to Dubai Inc.

There's an obvious way out.

1) Merge EY and EK.
2) Centralize at DWC.
3) Build rail transit to Dubai and Abu Dhabi.
4) Close DXB and use the freed up real estate for other purposes.

Now let's see if the Al-Maktoums can swallow their pride and save their emirate.

With you on the above, except for #2, though I don't necessarily disagree; rather, I seek clarification for I've not been to the country yet (was supposed to be there 2 weeks ago to visit my expat sister and her family, but that obviously got postponed...to the last week of November). I've seen photos of DXB's terminals and they appear to have been well-built. Why do you propose "tossing" DXB in favor of DWC? My initial thought is that DXB is better located relative to Dubai itself, so I look forward to your (and others') insight.

CALMSP · Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:44 pm

Western727 wrote:
TObound wrote:
EK bankrolls Dubai. Despite everyone thinking it's the other way around, EK is a profit centre for the Government of Dubai. And more importantly an economic enabler and multiplier that brings tourists, investors and commerce through the city. Dubai will never be in a position to substantially bail out EK because any hit to EK means a simultaneous and amplified hit to Dubai Inc.

There's an obvious way out.

1) Merge EY and EK.
2) Centralize at DWC.
3) Build rail transit to Dubai and Abu Dhabi.
4) Close DXB and use the freed up real estate for other purposes.

Now let's see if the Al-Maktoums can swallow their pride and save their emirate.

With you on the above, except for #2, though I don't necessarily disagree; rather, I seek clarification for I've not been to the country yet (was supposed to be there 2 weeks ago to visit my expat sister and her family, but that obviously got postponed...to the last week of November). I've seen photos of DXB's terminals and they appear to have been well-built. Why do you propose "tossing" DXB in favor of DWC? My initial thought is that DXB is better located relative to Dubai itself, so I look forward to your (and others') insight.

for me, it just seems so non-fluid. Would like DWC to be "THE" airport, with much better seating, more of an airport built for a massive connecting hub. as for the proximity to Dubai, so long as the metro rail connects DWC, it works for me.

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