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sixfootscream
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:52 pm

Rumour has it that Emirates will announce TLV. One flight a day. Boeing B777-300.
 
upintheair2019
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:57 pm

Airlinerdude wrote:
It looks like EK is trialling some 380 freighter flights. A6-EOU and A6-EOV are the only two non-RR engined A380s in the fleet put back into service. Both are operating four digit '9' series flight numbers which are typically reserved for freight flights.


A6-EOU spotted in Madrid, stopover from Washington to Dubai. https://www.facebook.com/AeronewsGlobal ... 2196911189
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:12 pm

Confirmation of the A380s being reactivated for freighter charter use per Emirates:

Emirates SkyCargo has started utilising its Airbus A380 aircraft on select cargo charter operations to transport urgently required cargo across its network. The first dedicated Emirates A380 ‘mini-freighter’ successfully transported medical supplies between Seoul and Amsterdam via Dubai.

Working collaboratively with the Engineering and Flight Operations teams within Emirates, the air cargo carrier has optimised the cargo capacity of the Airbus A380 to safely transport around 50 tonnes of cargo per flight in the bellyhold of the aircraft.

Emirates SkyCargo has introduced dedicated cargo operations on the A380 aircraft in response to the surge in the demand for air cargo capacity required for the urgent transportation of critical goods, including medical supplies for combatting COVID-19 in regions experiencing a second wave of the pandemic.

Emirates SkyCargo is working on further optimising the capacity of its Airbus A380 aircraft through measures such as seat loading of cargo and has planned more dedicated cargo flights on aircraft for the month of November.


https://www.skycargo.com/media-centre/e ... perations/

A6-EOT was also recently reactivated bringing EK's A380 freighter mini fleet to 3 aircraft right now. I'm hearing that there are plans to bring on 5+ more aircraft over the next couple of months.
 
andrew1996
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:14 pm

Given all the spare 77W in the fleet, wouldn't using the 77W as freighters be more effective? Unless they are removing J and F seats I cant imagine even with cabin cargo loading the A380 is better than the 77W for this purpose? In fact, we already know the belly of the 77W is larger than the A380 for cargo. Are they doing this to keep more A380 pilots active or keep some A380 active in hopes of a rapid recovery suddenly?

Also, can these belly of commercial planes carry vaccines at -70 Celius etc? Are there any special considerations or is it only the cargo container that matters?
 
xwb777
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:34 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
Given all the spare 77W in the fleet, wouldn't using the 77W as freighters be more effective? Unless they are removing J and F seats I cant imagine even with cabin cargo loading the A380 is better than the 77W for this purpose? In fact, we already know the belly of the 77W is larger than the A380 for cargo. Are they doing this to keep more A380 pilots active or keep some A380 active in hopes of a rapid recovery suddenly?

Also, can these belly of commercial planes carry vaccines at -70 Celius etc? Are there any special considerations or is it only the cargo container that matters?

I think maybe the airline is operating the A380s for cargo to build up more flying hours and cycles instead of being parked.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
EK7777
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:52 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
Given all the spare 77W in the fleet, wouldn't using the 77W as freighters be more effective?


10 77Ws have had their cabins removed for more cargo space, while others are also flying cargo only flights but with all the seats intact.

EK is probably very glad to have some old 77Ws come off lease this year, so they've already trimmed the 77W fleet down to 130 with almost all aircraft operating.
 
Avgeek21
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:34 am

andrew1996 wrote:
Given all the spare 77W in the fleet, wouldn't using the 77W as freighters be more effective?


I’ve heard every 777 they have is flying. I’m sure they’ve seen a market here to have some additional A380 work to keep the type somewhat financially useful for now. EK’s slowly adding more and more commercial 777 flights so maybe there is now more total demand than they can fulfill with the 777 alone.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:26 pm

Avgeek21 wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
Given all the spare 77W in the fleet, wouldn't using the 77W as freighters be more effective?

I’ve heard every 777 they have is flying. I’m sure they’ve seen a market here to have some additional A380 work to keep the type somewhat financially useful for now. EK’s slowly adding more and more commercial 777 flights so maybe there is now more total demand than they can fulfill with the 777 alone.

MKJ gave a good summary of EK's current results in a tweet:

Emirates H1 2020-21: Pax down 95% y-y to 1.5 million (1 April-30 September). Lost $3.4bn with revenue down 75% to $3.2bn. Cargo uplift declined 35% to 0.8m but yield more than doubled (by 106%)

Ref: https://twitter.com/MaxK_J/status/1326838995188387841

The way I read this, they're actually handling less cargo than when the whole fleet was operating but its yield is double.

Meanwhile they have bupkis for passenger traffic (down 95%!) so if alll 777s are flying they must be pretty darn empty.

We know they have had layoffs and furloughs so if all 777s are operating they must not be flying each frame too often and presumably are doing it to balance out the air miles across the fleet.

There is a related article at https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/p ... 03.article with free subscription required.
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nascar1
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:53 pm

upintheair2019 wrote:
Airlinerdude wrote:
It looks like EK is trialling some 380 freighter flights. A6-EOU and A6-EOV are the only two non-RR engined A380s in the fleet put back into service. Both are operating four digit '9' series flight numbers which are typically reserved for freight flights.


A6-EOU spotted in Madrid, stopover from Washington to Dubai. https://www.facebook.com/AeronewsGlobal ... 2196911189


On saturday is expected another flight from Washington to Dubai with a stopover in Barcelona.

https://twitter.com/Aeropuerto_BCN/status/1326895214771007488?s=20
 
andrew1996
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:56 pm

Avgeek21 wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
Given all the spare 77W in the fleet, wouldn't using the 77W as freighters be more effective?


I’ve heard every 777 they have is flying. I’m sure they’ve seen a market here to have some additional A380 work to keep the type somewhat financially useful for now. EK’s slowly adding more and more commercial 777 flights so maybe there is now more total demand than they can fulfill with the 777 alone.


Oh wow that's a speedy recovery to resinstate 100+ 77Ws. I imagine the utilization is probably pretty poor though although I guess they are also taking over all the former A388 routes. I think 77W pilots have been cut or put on no pay leave too not sure though. I feel like the poor utilization (if there is) could be used to launch more cargo flights than using the A380.

Does EK Sky Cargo code share with other cargo airlines/routes?
 
Avgeek21
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:42 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
Given all the spare 77W in the fleet, wouldn't using the 77W as freighters be more effective?


I’ve heard every 777 they have is flying. I’m sure they’ve seen a market here to have some additional A380 work to keep the type somewhat financially useful for now. EK’s slowly adding more and more commercial 777 flights so maybe there is now more total demand than they can fulfill with the 777 alone.


Oh wow that's a speedy recovery to resinstate 100+ 77Ws. I imagine the utilization is probably pretty poor though although I guess they are also taking over all the former A388 routes. I think 77W pilots have been cut or put on no pay leave too not sure though. I feel like the poor utilization (if there is) could be used to launch more cargo flights than using the A380.

Does EK Sky Cargo code share with other cargo airlines/routes?



Yes they did let go of a few hundred 777 pilots. Initially the ones under training or probation and later to cater for a reduced 777 fleet. Think the guys&girls on the freighter contract got spared.
 
xwb777
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:44 am

Emirates A380, A6-EOV, has arrived at Barcelona enroute from Washington IAD as EK9394.
Image


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720B
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Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:45 pm

As per Sam Chui's website, Tim Clark, Emirates CEO,. said the A380s still have a huge role to play in the airline’s business model, despite the Covid-10 impact on the industry. They still have 8 on order and plan to take all of them.

https://samchui.com/2020/11/17/emirates ... 7PQ2WhKiUl
 
MEA-707
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:55 pm

Good to read. These aircraft were almost finished already so it would be a huge penalty if they rejected them.
Plus it would be sad and depressing if these eight were not taken by anyone and go straight to the scrapman.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:17 pm

MEA-707 wrote:
These aircraft were almost finished already so it would be a huge penalty if they rejected them.


That may be more the factor than is planned use for them. This will be confirmed if we see these eight received while some of the existing fleet never return to service.
 
xwb777
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:19 pm

Emirates will receive an A380 in November and one in December. The airline is committed to take all A380s on order.

https://samchui.com/2020/11/17/emirates ... 7PXV-Q0olR
 
Western727
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:25 pm

Intriguing. I wonder what the future holds for EK given the advent of the 787/350/et al. TBH, I don't see the 380 having a bright future in the 2020s and 2030s, with increased p2p flying that reduces the need for ME hubs. I suspect DXB will become more and more of an O&D destination in the coming decade and less of a hub, so I just don't see the 380 working long term from a pax standpoint.
Jack @ AUS
 
windian425
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:45 pm

What we need is a A380 Combi! More cargo and less passengers.
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:45 pm

720B wrote:
As per Sam Chui's website, Tim Clark, Emirates CEO,. said the A380s still have a huge role to play in the airline’s business model, despite the Covid-10 impact on the industry. They still have 8 on order and plan to take all of them.

https://samchui.com/2020/11/17/emirates ... 7PQ2WhKiUl


Well, he isn't going to say the otherwise is he?

The Emirates still pay finances for owned/leased 380s so any negatives will having a financial hit, especially because no secondary market. And no one wants used ek 380s either.

Bloomberg reported may 2020 that EK wants to cancel 5 380s. Surprised Mr Tim's didn't talks about that...
 
Western727
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:04 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
720B wrote:
As per Sam Chui's website, Tim Clark, Emirates CEO,. said the A380s still have a huge role to play in the airline’s business model, despite the Covid-10 impact on the industry. They still have 8 on order and plan to take all of them.

https://samchui.com/2020/11/17/emirates ... 7PQ2WhKiUl


Bloomberg reported may 2020 that EK wants to cancel 5 380s. Surprised Mr Tim's didn't talks about that...


Plus, this comment by STC made me chuckle: "We value it enormously, we regret the fact it’s gone out of production, but that is testament to the strength of our business model, where others have tried to use it and failed." Self-serving, save-our-face propaganda. DXB I'm betting will become more and more an O&D hub and less and less of a global hub in the coming decade, thanks to more p2p flying. The 380's days are numbered, even at EK.
Jack @ AUS
 
Antarius
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:20 pm

Western727 wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
720B wrote:
As per Sam Chui's website, Tim Clark, Emirates CEO,. said the A380s still have a huge role to play in the airline’s business model, despite the Covid-10 impact on the industry. They still have 8 on order and plan to take all of them.

https://samchui.com/2020/11/17/emirates ... 7PQ2WhKiUl


Bloomberg reported may 2020 that EK wants to cancel 5 380s. Surprised Mr Tim's didn't talks about that...


Plus, this comment by STC made me chuckle: "We value it enormously, we regret the fact it’s gone out of production, but that is testament to the strength of our business model, where others have tried to use it and failed." Self-serving, save-our-face propaganda. DXB I'm betting will become more and more an O&D hub and less and less of a global hub in the coming decade, thanks to more p2p flying. The 380's days are numbered, even at EK.


I'm still unsold on the O&D value of DXB. EK has made DXB more than DXB has made EK.

If EK slips into irrelevancy, then it could eventually slide into being like Bahrain. Bahrain was significantly more important and "cooler" in the region at one point.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Western727
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:38 pm

Antarius wrote:
Western727 wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:

Bloomberg reported may 2020 that EK wants to cancel 5 380s. Surprised Mr Tim's didn't talks about that...


Plus, this comment by STC made me chuckle: "We value it enormously, we regret the fact it’s gone out of production, but that is testament to the strength of our business model, where others have tried to use it and failed." Self-serving, save-our-face propaganda. DXB I'm betting will become more and more an O&D hub and less and less of a global hub in the coming decade, thanks to more p2p flying. The 380's days are numbered, even at EK.


I'm still unsold on the O&D value of DXB. EK has made DXB more than DXB has made EK.

If EK slips into irrelevancy, then it could eventually slide into being like Bahrain. Bahrain was significantly more important and "cooler" in the region at one point.


Great points, thank you. I'd forgotten about Bahrain. I imagine the Emirati royal families have been sweating for months now.
Jack @ AUS
 
Avgeek21
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:11 pm

Western727 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Western727 wrote:

Plus, this comment by STC made me chuckle: "We value it enormously, we regret the fact it’s gone out of production, but that is testament to the strength of our business model, where others have tried to use it and failed." Self-serving, save-our-face propaganda. DXB I'm betting will become more and more an O&D hub and less and less of a global hub in the coming decade, thanks to more p2p flying. The 380's days are numbered, even at EK.


I'm still unsold on the O&D value of DXB. EK has made DXB more than DXB has made EK.

If EK slips into irrelevancy, then it could eventually slide into being like Bahrain. Bahrain was significantly more important and "cooler" in the region at one point.


Great points, thank you. I'd forgotten about Bahrain. I imagine the Emirati royal families have been sweating for months now.


Thats comparing apples to pears. Won’t happen, two vastly different countries. And I lived and worked in both.
 
Antarius
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:26 pm

Avgeek21 wrote:
Western727 wrote:
Antarius wrote:

I'm still unsold on the O&D value of DXB. EK has made DXB more than DXB has made EK.

If EK slips into irrelevancy, then it could eventually slide into being like Bahrain. Bahrain was significantly more important and "cooler" in the region at one point.


Great points, thank you. I'd forgotten about Bahrain. I imagine the Emirati royal families have been sweating for months now.


Thats comparing apples to pears. Won’t happen, two vastly different countries. And I lived and worked in both.


I disagree. I have as well.

I'm not saying that Dubai will turn into Bahrain, but that Dubai's importance could be similarly diminished.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
LupineChemist
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:30 pm

Western727 wrote:
Intriguing. I wonder what the future holds for EK given the advent of the 787/350/et al. TBH, I don't see the 380 having a bright future in the 2020s and 2030s, with increased p2p flying that reduces the need for ME hubs. I suspect DXB will become more and more of an O&D destination in the coming decade and less of a hub, so I just don't see the 380 working long term from a pax standpoint.


I still see it as unbeatable geography to move people between the Subcontinent and W. Hemisphere. Same as between Asia and Africa. I suspect that they may still be able to make it work after all is said and done. Covid won't be with us forever and those links will still be very important.
 
Strato2
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:03 pm

Great news! The A380 is not going anywhere anytime soon. :P :old: :box:
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:46 pm

Considering that EK had already made 50% of the progress payments on the 8 A380's in question and weren't going to get a refund, they might as well pay the balance and bring them into their fleet.

Most likely EK will retire 8 of the older A380-861's with GP7200 engines and replace them with the newer A380-842's powered with the newer RR Trent 972's. There are 14 A380-861's that are 10 years old, or older to choose from for retirements, which can allow EK to avoid some expensive HVM. Also, the Trent 972 powered A380's are somewhat more fuel efficient than the older ones powered by the GP7200's.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:13 pm

Antarius wrote:
If EK slips into irrelevancy, then it could eventually slide into being like Bahrain. Bahrain was significantly more important and "cooler" in the region at one point.


When I first flew to Dubai (in 1991 for a conference) the flight was on a new BA767 - VIA Bahrain!
 
smartplane
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:21 pm

A lot more EK, Airbus and RR negotiations still to be concluded in respect to the four A380 tranches cancelled / not confirmed, including the impact on retrospective air frame and engine credits, and the RR engine maintenance contract, highly dependent on EK ordering other Airbus models. The problem is that the air frame and engine contracts reached different places on the sales and financing continuum. Pre-Covid, Airbus and RR had more financial capacity to share the load.

EK will want to re-affirm 'lifetime' engine and air frame prices and availability.

Also some bundled financing needed to attract participation, with residual value guarantees, packaged with other Airbus orders to address risk, which is why an FZ A32 family purchase has to be on the cards. For example, 1x A380, 1-2x A33/35 and 7-8x A32. Or could we even see a Boeing response, with BCC packaging a 1x380 to secure Boeing orders?
 
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:33 pm

Antarius wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
Western727 wrote:

Great points, thank you. I'd forgotten about Bahrain. I imagine the Emirati royal families have been sweating for months now.


Thats comparing apples to pears. Won’t happen, two vastly different countries. And I lived and worked in both.


I disagree. I have as well.

I'm not saying that Dubai will turn into Bahrain, but that Dubai's importance could be similarly diminished.

The need gor A380s at EK will definitely be driven by how well Dubai can remain a elevated (vs. other places in the region) O&D market. I think Dubai will in the post Covid19 world:
1. Regional banking center
2. Regional distribution center (in part thanks to EK)
3. More friendly to Western Females, thus more desirable for expatriates to be headquartered there.
4. A preferred spot for cruise ships to be headquartered in the region.

I'm not saying Dubai will quickly return to the prior tourism levels (in my opinion, it will take years as the extended low oil prices hurt the region's demand for a while). But eventually I see a recovery. But I cannot put a timeline on eventually other than not before 2024 and I would guess even later. Yikes! I am a bear...

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
andrew1996
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:06 pm

windian425 wrote:
What we need is a A380 Combi! More cargo and less passengers.


I actually wonder if a combi was ever planned like the bottom deck is cargo and the upper deck is roughly an A332 in two class configuration
 
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Polot
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:11 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
windian425 wrote:
What we need is a A380 Combi! More cargo and less passengers.


I actually wonder if a combi was ever planned like the bottom deck is cargo and the upper deck is roughly an A332 in two class configuration

Not seriously. A A380 Combi like that sounds great in theory but is not really attractive in practice. There are very few routes that require a A332 volume of passengers, and a ~777F volume of cargo, both ways, every day. In reality you would have a A380 Combi that is often flying a A332 load of passenger and a lot of air.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:50 pm

xwb777 wrote:
Emirates will receive an A380 in November and one in December. The airline is committed to take all A380s on order.

https://samchui.com/2020/11/17/emirates ... 7PXV-Q0olR

I'm not sure the article says what you suggest it does. The word "all" is not in the title or the article. The article does say it will take one A380 in November and another in December. It says EK won't make drastic changes to its fleet plan, but dropping or deferring the remaining A380s would not be a drastic change. It says "Emirates are proceeding with their delivery schedule" but never says what that schedule is. The only "future deliveries" being confirmed are the ones in Nov and Dec so "proceeding" is correct English, but does not rule out future cancellations or deferments.

Overall, odds are high EK will have to take all the A380s, but I would not be surprised if they arranged for a deferment and are using clever press statements to keep up appearances as long as they can.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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tomcat
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:24 pm

Polot wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
windian425 wrote:
What we need is a A380 Combi! More cargo and less passengers.


I actually wonder if a combi was ever planned like the bottom deck is cargo and the upper deck is roughly an A332 in two class configuration

Not seriously. A A380 Combi like that sounds great in theory but is not really attractive in practice. There are very few routes that require a A332 volume of passengers, and a ~777F volume of cargo, both ways, every day. In reality you would have a A380 Combi that is often flying a A332 load of passenger and a lot of air.


This would be the first high subsonic Zeppelin :-).
 
Western727
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:26 pm

Polot wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
windian425 wrote:
What we need is a A380 Combi! More cargo and less passengers.


I actually wonder if a combi was ever planned like the bottom deck is cargo and the upper deck is roughly an A332 in two class configuration

Not seriously. A A380 Combi like that sounds great in theory but is not really attractive in practice. There are very few routes that require a A332 volume of passengers, and a ~777F volume of cargo, both ways, every day. In reality you would have a A380 Combi that is often flying a A332 load of passenger and a lot of air.


Isn't there also the significant cost of added weight and complexity due to (relatively) new regulations for fire suppression systems in the cargo compartment of combi jetliners? I forget the specifics, though.
Jack @ AUS
 
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Revelation
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:31 pm

720B wrote:
As per Sam Chui's website, Tim Clark, Emirates CEO,. said the A380s still have a huge role to play in the airline’s business model, despite the Covid-10 impact on the industry. They still have 8 on order and plan to take all of them.

https://samchui.com/2020/11/17/emirates ... 7PQ2WhKiUl

I'm not sure the article says what you suggest it does...

The word "all" is not in the title or the article. The article does say it will take one A380 in November and another in December. It says EK won't make drastic changes to its fleet plan, but dropping or deferring the few remaining A380s would not be a drastic change. It says "Emirates are proceeding with their delivery schedule" but never says what that schedule is. The only "future deliveries" being confirmed are the ones in Nov and Dec so "proceeding" is correct English, but does not rule out future cancellations or deferments.

Overall, odds are high EK will have to take all 8 of the A380s eventually, but I would not be surprised if they arranged for a deferment and are using clever press statements to keep up appearances as long as they can.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:53 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
windian425 wrote:
What we need is a A380 Combi! More cargo and less passengers.


I actually wonder if a combi was ever planned like the bottom deck is cargo and the upper deck is roughly an A332 in two class configuration


I've been wondering over the last few months why EK hasn't been pioneering a temporary A380 combi by taking out seats on the bottom deck and keeping passengers on the top deck. In the two-class config, that's 58J/120Y which is very suited for some of EK's load factors today - a higher proportion of J to Y passengers on most routes currently being flown.

I suppose the technical challenge that exists is still efficient loading of freight on the bottom deck given the inability to load anything in a more 'containerized' fashion. I wonder though if there are any efforts being made to innovate this process. EK's 380s are probably pretty ideal compared to some other aircraft types given the lack of bulkheads on the main deck, thus making the only technical limitation the width and height of the doors.
 
andrew1996
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:02 pm

Airlinerdude wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
windian425 wrote:
What we need is a A380 Combi! More cargo and less passengers.


I actually wonder if a combi was ever planned like the bottom deck is cargo and the upper deck is roughly an A332 in two class configuration


I've been wondering over the last few months why EK hasn't been pioneering a temporary A380 combi by taking out seats on the bottom deck and keeping passengers on the top deck. In the two-class config, that's 58J/120Y which is very suited for some of EK's load factors today - a higher proportion of J to Y passengers on most routes currently being flown.

I suppose the technical challenge that exists is still efficient loading of freight on the bottom deck given the inability to load anything in a more 'containerized' fashion. I wonder though if there are any efforts being made to innovate this process. EK's 380s are probably pretty ideal compared to some other aircraft types given the lack of bulkheads on the main deck, thus making the only technical limitation the width and height of the doors.



ACtaully a 58J 120Y seems ideal (or even perhaps still too much) capacity for many routes but that could be used to sustain daily services to certain places while making money via cargo but it does mean longer turn around times so it works best for cities where EK is going to park the aircraft for a while before flying back to DXB. Maybe also some safety rules regarding cargo in cabin AND paying commercial passengers at the same time. I am sure certain types of cargo like perishables, masks, random goods etc are safe in the cabin as after all passengers normally carry those goods too. Or even carrying parcels/mails etc.

Wonder if it could still be the 4 engines that is causing EK to not want to fly it this way as the 77W is still more efficient

I would have guessed there is a higher proportion of Y to J passengers today than pre covid because of less business travel.

Another interesting question is if they could have removed the last cabin of Y on the 77W for dedicated cargo since there is no way EK needs all those Y class seats right now somight as well as increase cargo capacity where there is demand.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:04 pm

I guess Airbus set its foot down to take deliveries or pay hefty penalties, probably didn't bite future order carrots.

News is a positive spin to a difficult situation.
All posts are just opinions.
 
xwb777
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:49 pm

Revelation wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Emirates will receive an A380 in November and one in December. The airline is committed to take all A380s on order.

https://samchui.com/2020/11/17/emirates ... 7PXV-Q0olR

I'm not sure the article says what you suggest it does. The word "all" is not in the title or the article. The article does say it will take one A380 in November and another in December. It says EK won't make drastic changes to its fleet plan, but dropping or deferring the remaining A380s would not be a drastic change. It says "Emirates are proceeding with their delivery schedule" but never says what that schedule is. The only "future deliveries" being confirmed are the ones in Nov and Dec so "proceeding" is correct English, but does not rule out future cancellations or deferments.

Overall, odds are high EK will have to take all the A380s, but I would not be surprised if they arranged for a deferment and are using clever press statements to keep up appearances as long as they can.


Emirates will take delivery of 5 A380s, not 8.
 
xwb777
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Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:26 am

Emirates will be operating four daily A380 flights to LHR, 6 weekly A380 to Manchester and daily to Moscow.
Image
 
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NeBaNi
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:12 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I guess Airbus set its foot down to take deliveries or pay hefty penalties, probably didn't bite future order carrots.

News is a positive spin to a difficult situation.

Given EK's order and cancellation history with Airbus (A340-600, A330-300, A350-1000), Airbus is wise not to bite future order carrots from EK.
 
xwb777
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Re: Emirates Network & Fleet discussion 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:07 pm

Emirates will operate daily B777 to both EDI and GLA.
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:13 pm

NeBaNi wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
I guess Airbus set its foot down to take deliveries or pay hefty penalties, probably didn't bite future order carrots.

News is a positive spin to a difficult situation.

Given EK's order and cancellation history with Airbus (A340-600, A330-300, A350-1000), Airbus is wise not to bite future order carrots from EK.


The Emirates never order A330-300.

It was LoI or MoU that lapsed.

Never order firm to cancels.

340-600 was crap vs 777W anyway. That's why they cancel its.
 
concordeforever
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:16 pm

I'm sure I've read somewhere recently that they are using 3 A380s: A6-EOT, U, and V with cargo in the cabins. Not sure if they are still carrying passengers at the same time on the other deck?
 
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Revelation
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:37 pm

NeBaNi wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
I guess Airbus set its foot down to take deliveries or pay hefty penalties, probably didn't bite future order carrots.

News is a positive spin to a difficult situation.

Given EK's order and cancellation history with Airbus (A340-600, A330-300, A350-1000), Airbus is wise not to bite future order carrots from EK.

#16 above suggests entanglements from A380 cancellations are still an element of ongoing negotiations between EK, Airbus and RR so that story is still being written.
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Antaras
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:55 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
Most likely EK will retire 8 of the older A380-861's with GP7200 engines and replace them with the newer A380-842's powered with the newer RR Trent 972's. There are 14 A380-861's that are 10 years old, or older to choose from for retirements, which can allow EK to avoid some expensive HVM. Also, the Trent 972 powered A380's are somewhat more fuel efficient than the older ones powered by the GP7200's.

I wonder why didn't EK choose the Trent 972 (A380-842) just like QF since the beginning.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
johns624
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:29 pm

Airlinerdude wrote:
thus making the only technical limitation the width and height of the doors.
"Only"? That's a big "only". How long would it take to hand load it?
 
oldJoe
Posts: 350
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:56 pm

Antaras wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
Most likely EK will retire 8 of the older A380-861's with GP7200 engines and replace them with the newer A380-842's powered with the newer RR Trent 972's. There are 14 A380-861's that are 10 years old, or older to choose from for retirements, which can allow EK to avoid some expensive HVM. Also, the Trent 972 powered A380's are somewhat more fuel efficient than the older ones powered by the GP7200's.

I wonder why didn't EK choose the Trent 972 (A380-842) just like QF since the beginning.


Better pricing for example springs to mind
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Emirates confirms future A380 deliveries

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:03 am

oldJoe wrote:
Antaras wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
Most likely EK will retire 8 of the older A380-861's with GP7200 engines and replace them with the newer A380-842's powered with the newer RR Trent 972's. There are 14 A380-861's that are 10 years old, or older to choose from for retirements, which can allow EK to avoid some expensive HVM. Also, the Trent 972 powered A380's are somewhat more fuel efficient than the older ones powered by the GP7200's.

I wonder why didn't EK choose the Trent 972 (A380-842) just like QF since the beginning.


Better pricing for example springs to mind

The GP7200 was a very good engine at entry into service. IAE did no fuel reduction PiPs. RR promised a good fuel reduction PiP and missed:

This added lots of drama to the rejiggering of the A380 order:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKCN1PP2C7

But a year-long impasse between Emirates and Rolls-Royce over shortfalls in fuel savings has so far blocked the order.

IAE wouldn't match the fuel burn promise, so RR won. Initially, the GP7200 has a claimed 1% fuel burn advantage:
https://www.airframer.com/news_story.html?release=9278

We can debate how much of a real advantage, but RR wasn't in the running until they promised lower fuel burn than the GP7200. They did not meet promised fuel burn and EK used that as an excuse to cut their A380 order (but apparently, not enough...).

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