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E90SLAM
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:10 am

GSPSPOT wrote:
I don't think many here would seriously debate the prudence in dumping fuel here, it's just where it was done, and at what altitude it was done that are at issue. Pretty simple.


Another argument was that why fuel dump on approach when the pilot indicated to ATC that they have no intention to dump fuel in the first place?
I don't think the pilots will be crucified, but there will be some explaining to do and some settlement by Delta. And then everyone move on with their lives.
 
BA777FO
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:19 am

mcdu wrote:
GSPSPOT wrote:
I don't think many here would seriously debate the prudence in dumping fuel here, it's just where it was done, and at what altitude it was done that are at issue. Pretty simple.


At that weight and with the compressor stall recovered there was no immediate need to dump.

Just because you have the ability to dump doesn’t mean you have to dump. That plane could have landed and cleared the runway easily at the TOW for a flight to PVG.


There was no immediate need to do anything, especially after the Eng Surge/Limit/Stall memory items were complete and the enginenwas back within limits. Therr was no need to make an expedited and rushed approach. They had plenty of time to jettison fuel.

The aircraft can land at MTOW on a single engine, however, it would be poor airmanship to do so when the situation allowed for jettison. Landing at MTOW would result in the brakes being in or approaching the fuse plug melt zone which presents you with a whole other set of unnecessary issues after landing.
 
SimonL
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:42 am

I havent done any deeper analyze of the situation but I've hard to see why the fuel dump was necessary, as stated by others the emergency wasn't extraordinary, and the plane is certified to fly across the oceans which means that an engine failure halfway across is still safe enough. So this could have been handle in a much better way. Dumping jet fuel over a populated area is something you do when there is no other option and you really need to get on the ground fast. But this jet is certified to fly for hours on one engine so a racetrack to burn off excessive fuel should have been totally doable.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:57 pm

kiowa wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
... so in other words: we simply don’t know what happened as of yet.


Lol... thanks for my own translation. Whoever dumped the fuel may have been following orders from the captain, even though a "negative" was provided over the airwaves. Potentially 4 pilot minds in the cockpit solving the problem contributed to the legitimate context in my referenced post, perhaps.



4 pilot minds in the cockpit may have contributed to the chaos if there was no clear leadership taking place. the number of stripes on the shoulder does not determine the actual leading personality. it's quite possible that the dumping was started without everyone on the same page. i am sure delta and the faa will get some answers but i doubt they will be as public as the event.


True. And agree we may never know what really happened.
 
DALMD80
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:23 pm

SimonL wrote:
...when there is no other option and you really need to get on the ground fast. ...

We don't know, though, if something worse was going on, or maybe the pilots thought it was snowballing. When (or more likely if) the CVR transcripts are released, then we might know what happened.
2 things- Wear a mask, and vote. It's that simple.
 
hivue
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:03 pm

Apparently the fuel jettison system on the 777 can be set to dump fuel down to MLW, which is a number that is set in the system by the crew. At that point it will shut down automatically. However, it will not shut down automatically based on altitude. Maybe the crew started jettisoning fuel and then forgot about it, expecting an automatic shutdown.
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smithbs
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:37 pm

kiowa wrote:
i am sure delta and the faa will get some answers but i doubt they will be as public as the event.


Just curious, why would a FAA incident report not be publicly available? The only reason I can think of is if they say there was no incident at all, but I think the fact that there was an engine out and local fire departments were called en masse due to this airplane, it would be judged an incident and a public report issued, even if it doesn't say much in the end.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:55 pm

smithbs wrote:
kiowa wrote:
i am sure delta and the faa will get some answers but i doubt they will be as public as the event.


Just curious, why would a FAA incident report not be publicly available? The only reason I can think of is if they say there was no incident at all, but I think the fact that there was an engine out and local fire departments were called en masse due to this airplane, it would be judged an incident and a public report issued, even if it doesn't say much in the end.


Because for the record this may not be even considered as an emergency. Delta downloads and resets recorders for internal use. FAA may talk to pilots with union and DL lawyers present.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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zeke
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:10 pm

smithbs wrote:

Just curious, why would a FAA incident report not be publicly available? The only reason I can think of is if they say there was no incident at all, but I think the fact that there was an engine out and local fire departments were called en masse due to this airplane, it would be judged an incident and a public report issued, even if it doesn't say much in the end.


Simply because you have the wrong agency. Incidents and accidents are for the NTSB to investigate if they deem it is necessary.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
kiowa
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:32 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
smithbs wrote:
kiowa wrote:
i am sure delta and the faa will get some answers but i doubt they will be as public as the event.


Just curious, why would a FAA incident report not be publicly available? The only reason I can think of is if they say there was no incident at all, but I think the fact that there was an engine out and local fire departments were called en masse due to this airplane, it would be judged an incident and a public report issued, even if it doesn't say much in the end.


Because for the record this may not be even considered as an emergency. Delta downloads and resets recorders for internal use. FAA may talk to pilots with union and DL lawyers present.


The FAA can also take certificate action without any of those multitudes of lawyers present.
 
flybucky
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:53 pm

DALMD80 wrote:
We don't know, though, if something worse was going on, or maybe the pilots thought it was snowballing. When (or more likely if) the CVR transcripts are released, then we might know what happened.

Yes, the CVR data should still be available, since the aircraft has not flown since. (Unlike the AC759 incident at SFO, which was not reported initially, so the CVR was overwritten on subsequent flights.) Hopefully that will come out in the final report.
 
BravoOne
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:31 pm

hivue wrote:
Apparently the fuel jettison system on the 777 can be set to dump fuel down to MLW, which is a number that is set in the system by the crew. At that point it will shut down automatically. However, it will not shut down automatically based on altitude. Maybe the crew started jettisoning fuel and then forgot about it, expecting an automatic shutdown.


You are correct about the default MLW, but it requires no interaction on the part of the crew. i.e., there is no setting unless the crew wants a differnet value and it is very obvious what is happening via the EICAS and various level alerts that are visible.
The fuel jettison is monitored by the ELMS system (Eletrica;:pad management System), through the ARINC 629 system busses/ The ELMS system will calculate the maximum landing weight and time to complete the jettison.
 
BravoOne
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:33 pm

flybucky wrote:
DALMD80 wrote:
We don't know, though, if something worse was going on, or maybe the pilots thought it was snowballing. When (or more likely if) the CVR transcripts are released, then we might know what happened.

Yes, the CVR data should still be available, since the aircraft has not flown since. (Unlike the AC759 incident at SFO, which was not reported initially, so the CVR was overwritten on subsequent flights.) Hopefully that will come out in the final report.


I doubt you will ever hear CVR for this flight. No accident occurred and nothing beyond SOPS seems t have either.
 
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dennypayne
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:47 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Just look at the hounding Sully got from the FAA.....they told him he could have made it back to LGA and were ready to hang him.


Pretty sure that Sully commented that the "hounding" only happened in the movie for dramatic effect, because you have to have a villain in a movie. Plus it was a way for the director Clint Eastwood to further his anti-government narrative. They didn't give Sully any grief in real life.

In his memoir, Sullenberger reflects that he was “buoyed by the fact that investigators determined that Jeff and I made appropriate choices at every step”


https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/s ... crash-ntsb

So I don't think characterizing investigators as "out to get" pilots is appropriate in this situation either.


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BravoOne
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:08 pm

kiowa wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
... so in other words: we simply don’t know what happened as of yet.


Lol... thanks for my own translation. Whoever dumped the fuel may have been following orders from the captain, even though a "negative" was provided over the airwaves. Potentially 4 pilot minds in the cockpit solving the problem contributed to the legitimate context in my referenced post, perhaps.



4 pilot minds in the cockpit may have contributed to the chaos if there was no clear leadership taking place. the number of stripes on the shoulder does not determine the actual leading personality. it's quite possible that the dumping was started without everyone on the same page. i am sure delta and the faa will get some answers but i doubt they will be as public as the event.



The four pilots issue is moot. One Captin is designated as the Aircraft Commander, the other Captain is desgnated as a Relief Captain and there are two First Officers. Everyone in the crew knows the chain of command and responsibilities (they go with the seat you sitting in) that go with it. I seriously doubt there were any "leadership" issues involved with this crew. 2 Capts, age 63 and 2 F.O's age 55. This was not their first rodeo as the saying goes. All four of them had extensive military flying in there previous careers so I'm told.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:28 pm

kiowa wrote:
The FAA can also take certificate action without any of those multitudes of lawyers present.


Without due process??
All posts are just opinions.
 
BravoOne
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:48 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
kiowa wrote:
The FAA can also take certificate action without any of those multitudes of lawyers present.


Without due process??



No worries as they don't appear to have violated any FARs
 
Tavocruz
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:22 pm

I have been cropdusted numerous times before....you know, banana chemical stuff etc, not pleasant; I will admit.
Some say it affected my cognitive functions....but I think I was worse before before the showers.
But I think these kids in question will live to see another day.

So glad these were American pilots at least, with regards to this forum.
Can you imagine if they were Ethiopian Airlines or Lion Air pilots?
Some would have a field day....
 
kiowa
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:34 pm

BravoOne wrote:
kiowa wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:

Lol... thanks for my own translation. Whoever dumped the fuel may have been following orders from the captain, even though a "negative" was provided over the airwaves. Potentially 4 pilot minds in the cockpit solving the problem contributed to the legitimate context in my referenced post, perhaps.



4 pilot minds in the cockpit may have contributed to the chaos if there was no clear leadership taking place. the number of stripes on the shoulder does not determine the actual leading personality. it's quite possible that the dumping was started without everyone on the same page. i am sure delta and the faa will get some answers but i doubt they will be as public as the event.



The four pilots issue is moot. One Captin is designated as the Aircraft Commander, the other Captain is desgnated as a Relief Captain and there are two First Officers. Everyone in the crew knows the chain of command and responsibilities (they go with the seat you sitting in) that go with it. I seriously doubt there were any "leadership" issues involved with this crew. 2 Capts, age 63 and 2 F.O's age 55. This was not their first rodeo as the saying goes. All four of them had extensive military flying in there previous careers so I'm told.



Chain of command works much better on paper than it does during chaos. Leadership does not come with a "designated" aircraft commander. My guess is that all 4 pilots were not on the same page. Hopefully, it will be reviewed and taught to other pilots for a learning experience.
 
BravoOne
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:00 pm

kiowa wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
kiowa wrote:


4 pilot minds in the cockpit may have contributed to the chaos if there was no clear leadership taking place. the number of stripes on the shoulder does not determine the actual leading personality. it's quite possible that the dumping was started without everyone on the same page. i am sure delta and the faa will get some answers but i doubt they will be as public as the event.



The four pilots issue is moot. One Captin is designated as the Aircraft Commander, the other Captain is desgnated as a Relief Captain and there are two First Officers. Everyone in the crew knows the chain of command and responsibilities (they go with the seat you sitting in) that go with it. I seriously doubt there were any "leadership" issues involved with this crew. 2 Capts, age 63 and 2 F.O's age 55. This was not their first rodeo as the saying goes. All four of them had extensive military flying in there previous careers so I'm told.



Chain of command works much better on paper than it does during chaos. Leadership does not come with a "designated" aircraft commander. My guess is that all 4 pilots were not on the same page. Hopefully, it will be reviewed and taught to other pilots for a learning experience.



How you pulled that information out of thin air is beyond me? Were you on that flight deck and for that matter what are your qualifications to comment. I suspect all four pilots were working together as a crew.
 
BravoOne
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:02 pm

Tavocruz wrote:
I have been cropdusted numerous times before....you know, banana chemical stuff etc, not pleasant; I will admit.
Some say it affected my cognitive functions....but I think I was worse before before the showers.
But I think these kids in question will live to see another day.

So glad these were American pilots at least, with regards to this forum.
Can you imagine if they were Ethiopian Airlines or Lion Air pilots?
Some would have a field day....


With good reason I might add.
 
flybucky
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:42 pm

BravoOne wrote:
I doubt you will ever hear CVR for this flight. No accident occurred and nothing beyond SOPS seems t have either.

Is this because FAA reports are not public? And NTSB (which would produce a public report) is not investigating this incident?
 
D L X
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:58 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Tavocruz wrote:
I have been cropdusted numerous times before....you know, banana chemical stuff etc, not pleasant; I will admit.
Some say it affected my cognitive functions....but I think I was worse before before the showers.
But I think these kids in question will live to see another day.

So glad these were American pilots at least, with regards to this forum.
Can you imagine if they were Ethiopian Airlines or Lion Air pilots?
Some would have a field day....


With good reason I might add.

I really hope you’re not saying it’s ok because it’s Delta, but wouldn’t be okay if it were Ethiopian.
 
dampfnudel
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:12 pm

D L X wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Tavocruz wrote:
I have been cropdusted numerous times before....you know, banana chemical stuff etc, not pleasant; I will admit.
Some say it affected my cognitive functions....but I think I was worse before before the showers.
But I think these kids in question will live to see another day.

So glad these were American pilots at least, with regards to this forum.
Can you imagine if they were Ethiopian Airlines or Lion Air pilots?
Some would have a field day....


With good reason I might add.

I really hope you’re not saying it’s ok because it’s Delta, but wouldn’t be okay if it were Ethiopian.

I wish this wasn’t the case, but I have a feeling that there would be fewer people here defending the actions of the flight crew if they were foreign.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:17 am

flybucky wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I doubt you will ever hear CVR for this flight. No accident occurred and nothing beyond SOPS seems t have either.

Is this because FAA reports are not public? And NTSB (which would produce a public report) is not investigating this incident?


No, it because of event definition and classification. If it is not a serious incident (or) accident as defined by ICAO and/or FAA, it is just an internal matter, Chief PIlot will have a quick chat with the crew and they will be on their way to next schedule.
All posts are just opinions.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:26 am

D L X wrote:
...
I really hope you’re not saying it’s ok because it’s Delta, but wouldn’t be okay if it were Ethiopian.


This thread would have been lot more fun if it was Air India. Remember a 787 losing a fairing panel within airport premises on landing and a.net along with the world went berserk.

If one says no big deal Ambulance Chasers get mad, if one says this is bad, Delta PR gets mad, what are members supposed to discuss.

BTW, have you ever seen kids spraying themselves DEET can with open eyes in parks or campsites under parent supervision. That is more harmful than what Jet-A vapors did to these kids.
All posts are just opinions.
 
KBUF
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:59 am

Four teachers from the school have filed a lawsuit against DL over the incident: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/01 ... ia-allred/
 
D L X
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:38 am

KBUF wrote:
Four teachers from the school have filed a lawsuit against DL over the incident: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/01 ... ia-allred/

Correction. Gloria Allred filed a lawsuit in self promotion. Barf.
 
Sies
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:43 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
The only reason to dump fuel that low while returning that quick is a fire.

Terrain isn’t an issue in LA the ocean is straight out. An engine out does not require this type of expeditious return to field.

I think you are right. What may have started out as an engine problem may have escalated to something far more serious. In one of the videos it sounded like the R.A.T. had deployed.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:12 am

Sies wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
The only reason to dump fuel that low while returning that quick is a fire.

Terrain isn’t an issue in LA the ocean is straight out. An engine out does not require this type of expeditious return to field.

I think you are right. What may have started out as an engine problem may have escalated to something far more serious. In one of the videos it sounded like the R.A.T. had deployed.


4th time I'm stating this, it was an illusion created by zooming in on the aircraft with a nearby but different aircraft in the background creating sound. The incident aircraft was too far away to be heard (although the person filming may have heard it eventually). The audio in other videos don't have a piston-engine sound present in them.
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flybucky
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:34 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
No, it because of event definition and classification. If it is not a serious incident (or) accident as defined by ICAO and/or FAA, it is just an internal matter, Chief PIlot will have a quick chat with the crew and they will be on their way to next schedule.

I see, thanks. Yeah, it's not even listed in the FAA Incident Database. (Note: The dates on that page are by when the notices are received, not the event date.)
 
flybucky
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:38 am

Another thought about the CVR: the transcript could still be revealed publicly if there is a civil trial, right? It does look like there will be a civil lawsuit filed. Although it would probably be settled out of court before trial, in which case nothing would be revealed.
 
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zeke
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:10 am

flybucky wrote:
Another thought about the CVR: the transcript could still be revealed publicly if there is a civil trial, right? It does look like there will be a civil lawsuit filed. Although it would probably be settled out of court before trial, in which case nothing would be revealed.


CVR cannot be used in a civil trial
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
kalvado
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:45 am

flybucky wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
No, it because of event definition and classification. If it is not a serious incident (or) accident as defined by ICAO and/or FAA, it is just an internal matter, Chief PIlot will have a quick chat with the crew and they will be on their way to next schedule.

I see, thanks. Yeah, it's not even listed in the FAA Incident Database. (Note: The dates on that page are by when the notices are received, not the event date.)

DL not reporting IFSD on ETOPS flight?
Oh well, that would be interesting.
 
dmg626
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:51 pm

KBUF wrote:
Four teachers from the school have filed a lawsuit against DL over the incident: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/01 ... ia-allred/


Story on CNN had teachers on crying about what happened and community leaders claiming the Latino area was targeted, plane flew over more affluent area and did not dump, thus this was a discriminating fuel dump.
 
D L X
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:55 pm

dmg626 wrote:
KBUF wrote:
Four teachers from the school have filed a lawsuit against DL over the incident: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/01 ... ia-allred/


Story on CNN had teachers on crying about what happened and community leaders claiming the Latino area was targeted, plane flew over more affluent area and did not dump, thus this was a discriminating fuel dump.

Yep. If there is a legitimate case (and there may be one), Gloria Allred will destroy it. She is not so much a real lawyer as she is a mudslinger. Welcome to Los Angeles.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:30 pm

kalvado wrote:
flybucky wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
No, it because of event definition and classification. If it is not a serious incident (or) accident as defined by ICAO and/or FAA, it is just an internal matter, Chief PIlot will have a quick chat with the crew and they will be on their way to next schedule.

I see, thanks. Yeah, it's not even listed in the FAA Incident Database. (Note: The dates on that page are by when the notices are received, not the event date.)

DL not reporting IFSD on ETOPS flight?
Oh well, that would be interesting.


I don't know the technical details behind it, but most of the engine problems(publicly reported) may not be IFSD. What I understood, smart airline crew doesn't shutdown engines unless it is absolutely necessary, they idle the engine and bring it back.

Airline is happy because it is not an shutdown and no reporting necessary.
Regulator is happy because no investigation required.
Engine Manufacturer is happy because IFSD stats are "managed".

Probably zeke can correct me.
All posts are just opinions.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:44 pm

kalvado wrote:
flybucky wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
No, it because of event definition and classification. If it is not a serious incident (or) accident as defined by ICAO and/or FAA, it is just an internal matter, Chief PIlot will have a quick chat with the crew and they will be on their way to next schedule.

I see, thanks. Yeah, it's not even listed in the FAA Incident Database. (Note: The dates on that page are by when the notices are received, not the event date.)

DL not reporting IFSD on ETOPS flight?
Oh well, that would be interesting.


You don’t have to shut down the engine. Most compressor stalls can be stabilized by pulling the power back.

The ONLY time a crew manually shuts down an engine is when the ECL tells them too.
 
DALMD80
Posts: 501
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:17 pm

dmg626 wrote:
KBUF wrote:
Four teachers from the school have filed a lawsuit against DL over the incident: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/01 ... ia-allred/


Story on CNN had teachers on crying about what happened and community leaders claiming the Latino area was targeted, plane flew over more affluent area and did not dump, thus this was a discriminating fuel dump.

Goes to show how little some people know about aviation. For Pete's sake, DEET does more harm then jet fuel.
2 things- Wear a mask, and vote. It's that simple.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1129
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:42 pm

dmg626 wrote:
KBUF wrote:
Four teachers from the school have filed a lawsuit against DL over the incident: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/01 ... ia-allred/


Story on CNN had teachers on crying about what happened and community leaders claiming the Latino area was targeted, plane flew over more affluent area and did not dump, thus this was a discriminating fuel dump.


Highly unfortunate that even on this the 'race card' is going to be used, as if the DL pilots intentionally dumped fuel in that specific area. It also flew over Calabasas and Burbank, I am sure the people there can also allege intentional dumping and sue?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:51 pm

This media attention on this incident, with the attendant lawsuits and now race baiting, are emblematic of all that is wrong with the country.

And the level of ignorance and speculation displayed by some of the posts on this thread beggars the imagination.

New lows on both counts.
 
MrBretz
Posts: 557
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:03 pm

D L X wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
KBUF wrote:
Four teachers from the school have filed a lawsuit against DL over the incident: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/01 ... ia-allred/


Story on CNN had teachers on crying about what happened and community leaders claiming the Latino area was targeted, plane flew over more affluent area and did not dump, thus this was a discriminating fuel dump.

Yep. If there is a legitimate case (and there may be one), Gloria Allred will destroy it. She is not so much a real lawyer as she is a mudslinger. Welcome to Los Angeles.


I saw Gloria Allred on one of the TVs while at the gym yesterday. She looks younger than she did 10 years ago. She needs the fee to continue to pay for cosmetic surgeries.
 
highflier92660
Posts: 724
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:16 am

Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:11 pm

D L X wrote:
KBUF wrote:
Four teachers from the school have filed a lawsuit against DL over the incident: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/01 ... ia-allred/

Correction. Gloria Allred filed a lawsuit in self promotion. Barf.


Portions of the news conference held in Gloria Allred's office were broadcast on all our local Los Angeles TV stations. It included inner-city teachers in-tears, comparing faint mists of Jet-A with Agent Orange. There is always a huge built-in groan factor whenever Ms. Allred holds a news conference.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:30 pm

BravoOne wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
This media attention on this incident, with the attendant lawsuits and now race baiting, are emblematic of all that is wrong with the country.

And the level of ignorance and speculation displayed by some of the posts on this thread beggars the imagination.

New lows on both counts.



Race baiting? Your imagination has no bounds


I didn't make it up. There was a post that i was responding to that said CNN was reporting that people were making that claim....that the fuel was dumped over low income and Hispanic areas. I've never heard a more ridiculous claim in my life. To think that a crew, in an emergency, would break out the charts to go find a low income area to dump fuel over......well, as I said it beggars the imagination.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:32 pm

BravoOne wrote:
I doubt you will ever hear CVR for this flight. No accident occurred and nothing beyond SOPS seems t have either.


Nobody ever hears the CVR for any accident flight.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:36 pm

kalvado wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
This media attention on this incident, with the attendant lawsuits and now race baiting, are emblematic of all that is wrong with the country.

And the level of ignorance and speculation displayed by some of the posts on this thread beggars the imagination.

New lows on both counts.

Look into the mirror. There is a problem, but it is a different problem. We have deeply plagued industry which doesn't care about anything that doesn't affect it directly/
Pilots praise pilots for putting passengers and airplane first regardless of people on the ground. Maker of this very plane - Boeing - is being bashed for putting shareholder value over the safety of passengers.
I would see both as parts of exact same trend. Me, me, mine - and rest of the world can go to hell....


The situation was fluid. The pilots made a safety of flight decision. No one was hurt. No metal was bent. And contrary to any hyperbolic comments, no one on the ground was injured in any substantial way. There is nothing here. Zero. No one hid anything, no one was hurt, no one died.

There is absolutely no correlation to the Boeing MAX case. Boeing knowingly put people in danger. And then hid that they knew. Multiple crashes, many deaths, long email trail.

What exactly an I looking in the mirror for?
Last edited by SteelChair on Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:38 pm

wjcandee wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I doubt you will ever hear CVR for this flight. No accident occurred and nothing beyond SOPS seems t have either.


Nobody ever hears the CVR for any accident flight.


Um, youtube has many of them. Very easy to find.
 
kiowa
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:38 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
kalvado wrote:
flybucky wrote:
I see, thanks. Yeah, it's not even listed in the FAA Incident Database. (Note: The dates on that page are by when the notices are received, not the event date.)

DL not reporting IFSD on ETOPS flight?
Oh well, that would be interesting.


You don’t have to shut down the engine. Most compressor stalls can be stabilized by pulling the power back.

The ONLY time a crew manually shuts down an engine is when the ECL tells them too.


"Only" is a big word. Engine on fire and ECL inop? Technology is far from perfect.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4094
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:45 pm

SteelChair wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I doubt you will ever hear CVR for this flight. No accident occurred and nothing beyond SOPS seems t have either.


Nobody ever hears the CVR for any accident flight.


Um, youtube has many of them. Very easy to find.


Let us know when you find it. Doubt that it will shed much light on this issue unless of course you hear screaming, crying and shouting going on in the background.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4094
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: A DL 772, Flying LAX-PVG, Makes Emergency Landing And Dumps Fuel On School

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:52 pm

wjcandee wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I doubt you will ever hear CVR for this flight. No accident occurred and nothing beyond SOPS seems t have either.


Nobody ever hears the CVR for any accident flight.


Sure they do. Usually published along with the NTSB final report which which...drum roll please, will never be a part of this investigation. Some where the WAL MEX, DC10 CVR is published for you to hear although that was not an NTSB investgation. Also I have heard several Pan Am CVR's in the past.

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