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User avatar
N62NA
Posts: 4464
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

Re: EWR and Foreign Carriers

Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:47 am

EMB170 wrote:
Personally, as a SkyTeam loyalist, I'd love to see AF/KL/AZ return to EWR. For a time after they left, DL served CDG and AMS on their behalf, which was a good thing.


Well now that DL has ordered the A220-300.... (half joking, but EWR-CDG is actually within range!).
 
Cedar
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:07 am

Re: EWR and Foreign Carriers

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:30 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
My intention of making this thread is to understand why there are a limited number of international carriers at EWR, not to create a JFK vs. EWR debate. But why do carriers such as ANA, KLM, Air France, Qatar, Copa, Avianca, Asiana, etc. chose to serve JFK vs EWR? The demand is there from EWR along with it being significantly closer to key parts of Manhattan. Have airlines been too conservative when choosing which route to fly?



Asiana & Avianca already do fly to EWR for a couple of years now - in addition, Turkish Airlines will be coming to EWR in May. I wouldn't discount EWR. Several airlines "want" to come in - but due to space & capacity restrictions they can't at the moment. As the years move on & construction of the new Terminal A is completed - that will continue to change.

Int'l carriers already serving EWR

Asiana
Austrian
Avianca
Aer Lingus
Air India
Air China
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Ela Al
Emirates
Ethipoian
Eurowings
Iceland Air
La Compagnie
Level
Lot Polish
Lufthansa
Norwegian
SAS
Swiss
Singapore
TAP Portugal
Virgin Atlantic
Turkish Airlines - May 2020

And more coming...
 
acavpics
Posts: 364
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 am

Re: EWR and Foreign Carriers

Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:00 am

spacecadet wrote:
acavpics wrote:
Maybe more people outside the country would view EWR as a NYC airport if airport displays labelled the destination as "New York-Newark", just as they do with "New York - Laguardia" and "New York - JFK." When they just display "Newark", it makes EWR seem like an airport serving an entirely different city/metro.


LGA and JFK are both *in* New York; that's why they're referred to that way. Newark Airport is in a whole different state, much less city.


CVG is in Hebron, Kentucky. Yet, the boards still display "Cincinnati, OH."
 
User avatar
SASViking
Posts: 434
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:06 pm

Re: EWR and Foreign Carriers

Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:16 am

Oykie wrote:
You’re right. The tie up with Continental was not with Star Alliance, but did SAS at some point own parts of Continental? They bought Jet Capital Corporation from Frank Lorenzo on the condition that he left the company in 1990.

Yes they did. SAS was actually the shareholder with the highest share at one point.
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
global2
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:50 am

Re: EWR and Foreign Carriers

Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:43 am

N62NA wrote:
There's also just the two, usually traffic choked tunnels out of Manhattan to NJ. Not at all something I want to contemplate if I have a flight going out from EWR. There's just so many more routes to JFK from Manhattan.


Exactly. And if you're on the East Side like me there's no way I'm going to deal with crosstown traffic just to sit at the entrance to either tunnel heading to NJ. I will say that I've taken NJTransit from Penn Station to EWR and that experience was actually pretty convenient, but that time I was travelling (domestic) with just a carry on bag. If I'm travelling internationally I'm going to have luggage, so I'm going to use a car service to JFK.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: EWR and Foreign Carriers

Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:59 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
JFK is the premier international gateway of the United States.

Like Heathrow or Charles de Gualle

If airlines are going to serve one airport in NY, unless they have a pull to EWR (aka UA) they likely choose JFK

You see how much UA regrets leaving JFK for their premium transcons...and they have the biggest reason to be at EWR

Furthermore, There are several Star carriers that serve only JFK.

Mostly prestige. Some history. Sometimes just closer to immigrant communities in Queens
34 an

I’m not going to lie that all your answers were completely valid and make sense, but I come to question why the prestige still existas they are nars. As I said before EWR is closer to many imports parts of Manhattan and let’s face it if your traveling to NYC for almost any reason, your heading to Manhattan. Furthermore, in a tech driven world where the majority of people pick their own travel and will see the travel times to and from the city, they will see EWR is closer. This should make EWR the front runner EWR are PANY/NJ airports. It only matters how you get from EWR to NYC ir JFK to NYC as they are pretty close in distance. and Getting into Manhattan is a pain in the Ass from either /direction. so 6 of one? Half a Dozen of the other. My aunt lived up on the Bronx and I worked for United so I flew into EWR from 1984 on because I could get on 1st class from SFO where I could Not get on first class into JFK back when UA 34 and UA35 were 747's out of EWR -SFO-HNL..
 
FSDan
Posts: 3273
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: EWR and Foreign Carriers

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:36 am

Cedar wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
My intention of making this thread is to understand why there are a limited number of international carriers at EWR, not to create a JFK vs. EWR debate. But why do carriers such as ANA, KLM, Air France, Qatar, Copa, Avianca, Asiana, etc. chose to serve JFK vs EWR? The demand is there from EWR along with it being significantly closer to key parts of Manhattan. Have airlines been too conservative when choosing which route to fly?



Asiana & Avianca already do fly to EWR for a couple of years now - in addition, Turkish Airlines will be coming to EWR in May. I wouldn't discount EWR. Several airlines "want" to come in - but due to space & capacity restrictions they can't at the moment. As the years move on & construction of the new Terminal A is completed - that will continue to change.

Int'l carriers already serving EWR

Asiana
Austrian
Avianca
Aer Lingus
Air India
Air China
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Ela Al
Emirates
Ethipoian
Eurowings
Iceland Air
La Compagnie
Level
Lot Polish
Lufthansa
Norwegian
SAS
Swiss
Singapore
TAP Portugal
Virgin Atlantic
Turkish Airlines - May 2020

And more coming...


Asiana does not fly to EWR, and Norwegian no longer does either. The rest of your list is correct.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
hoons90
Posts: 3648
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

Re: EWR and Foreign Carriers

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:12 am

x1234 wrote:
I never understood why UA won't start EWR-ICN. I know they code-share on JFK-ICN on OZ (Asiana). Yes there is capacity dumping with the 2x daily KE A380 and 1x daily OZ A350. Maybe that's the reason (KE/DL too powerful)...


OZ is actually 2x daily to JFK with the A350.

I am guessing that the limited connecting opportunities at the EWR end, plus the perfunctory (in the context of alliance partnerships) relationship between UA and OZ might be some of the factors as to why there is no EWR-ICN flight on UA. Also, the two Korean carriers will offer a total of 1,436 seats each way between ICN and NYC this summer (including 268 in the premium classes.) Of course, without the exact O&D numbers, it's hard to tell whether this makes it an overserved market or not, so if anyone could post it, that would be appreciated.

KE used to serve EWR until 2002, with different intermediate stops (I believe ORD was one of them.)
Flown: 2L 7C 9E 9L AA AB AC AF AY AZ BA BR BX B6 CA CO CP CX DL EK EY JL KE KL LA LH LX MQ NW OZ PD RW SQ TG TP TR TS US WG WN WS XE XJ
 
Coexstud
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: EWR and Foreign Carriers

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:13 pm

MaRoFu wrote:
Coexstud wrote:
if you ride the employee bus in EWr you could at one point still see where they had the MX and other areas marked as being KE with its repretive symbol.


Just curious, where specifically is this? Also did you mean to say the in-security shuttle bus?

yes when you used to go from a31 to term c on that adventure you could see KE
 
Cedar
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:07 am

Re: EWR and Foreign Carriers

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:53 pm

I think people need to stop trying to make or class EWR as a "New York" airport - Yes, one of it's big advantages is that is has easy access & close proximity to NYC & airlines can market that as a selling point. However, as anyone from NJ or NY knows, EWR has it's own market - All of NJ, parts of Pennsylvania (including Philadelphia), Parts of Connecticut & parts of NY. NJ has it's own industry, businesses, company's, attractions & people wanting to visit family, etc. - not to mention it's own connection hub (United).
The Port Authority also uses EWR proximity to NY as an alternate to avoid over congestion at any one of it's airports - but EWR is an NJ airport & operates at a different level than JFK or LGA. Not saying it's better or worse - but considerably different & somewhat preferred by passengers if they had a choice, due to ease of maneuvering through airport.
Although some passengers may not understand the differences, proximity or similarities between EWR & JFK - does anyone really believe that carriers (at least the well established ones) don't understand the difference & don't do their market research?

They have their reasons for choosing one over the other - or even both.
The 2 states compliment each other in many ways - but NJ is big, and it's not all about NY for EWR. There is a lot more to it.


Cedar
 
User avatar
OceanAir
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:27 pm

Re: EWR and Foreign Carriers

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:28 am

There is so much nonsense and disinformation popping up in this thread. As a born and bred New Yorker (the city) living here to this day, I can't help but to chime in.

New Yorkers definitely do not look down upon EWR, nor is JFK seen as more prestigious or "the" international gateway. Someone pulled this out of their.. (and they are obviously not from here). Also the JFK = LHR and EWR = LGW analogy is nonsense. A horrible comparison. Airlines go to LGW when they can't get slots at Heathrow or already serve it. This is not the case in NYC. If an airline could only serve one airport of their choice in the London area (all things aside) they would pick LHR. Although maybe some would pick LCY. The tri-state area? There is no straight answer. I would't be surprised if SQ added a second daily to EWR and pulled the plug on JFK, since claims have been made they are going after pharma (NJ) and finance (downtown NYC) traffic.

There are a lot of nuances. Some people from certain foreign counties might associate Kennedy Airport/John F. Kennedy/JFK with New York City. Key word: certain. Perhaps the President's name is more memorable than an airport with no honorary name (Newark). Often these are African/Asian/very far away places. Europe? Not so much. SN flies to JFK because they carry a lot of pax to/from Africa, as well as Jews living in Brooklyn and Queens going to Antwerp. Not going to dive into that one right now, but Google is your friend. On the flip side, SK flies to EWR because most of their pax are Scandinavian tourists going to Manhattan. And yes, EWR is closer to where the attractions and icons of Manhattan are: downtown. Someone living in upper Manhattan might be split or lean towards JFK (if on the east side). Staten Islanders might also be split or lean towards EWR. And if we are going to talk about "high yield pax", the moneyed burbs with strongest ties to Wall Street are actually mostly in New Jersey (as opposed to Westchester/Long Island where wealth has more diverse sources), so guess where they fly out of.

Some *A airlines fly to both airports to take advantage of different passenger streams (LH, LO, OS). For example, when LO was forced to consolidate at JFK for a while, did the Jersey pax using EWR go to JFK? Nope. They all started flying on other airlines, and of course LO came back as soon as it was allowed to. OS added EWR during this hiatus. They wouldn't consolidate at EWR either, since people living on Long Island and Connecticut are never going to go there. That's another ridiculously expensive bridge to cross plus an additional hour (minimum) of sitting in the worst traffic in the country. On the flip side, you often see Pennsylvania plates at EWR, which you do not see at JFK.

As for terminals... HAH! This is the most ridiculous thing I've seen here. Nobody is using one airport or the other based on how nice or horrible a terminal is (and they are all cr*p in different ways.) People in this town just don't have time or a care for that. But really, does anyone anywhere do that? (Other than A.netters).

People *not from here* make it sound like the states of New York and New Jersey (and Connecticut) have a gorge between them, or even somehow look different, which cannot be further from reality. Meanwhile people live in one and work in the other, or shop/go to school/whatever in the third. It's like crossing the damn Thames. Tri. State. Area.
 
jerseyewr777
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:06 am

Re: EWR and Foreign Carriers

Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:34 am

OceanAir wrote:
There is so much nonsense and disinformation popping up in this thread. As a born and bred New Yorker (the city) living here to this day, I can't help but to chime in.

New Yorkers definitely do not look down upon EWR, nor is JFK seen as more prestigious or "the" international gateway. Someone pulled this out of their.. (and they are obviously not from here). Also the JFK = LHR and EWR = LGW analogy is nonsense. A horrible comparison. Airlines go to LGW when they can't get slots at Heathrow or already serve it. This is not the case in NYC. If an airline could only serve one airport of their choice in the London area (all things aside) they would pick LHR. Although maybe some would pick LCY. The tri-state area? There is no straight answer. I would't be surprised if SQ added a second daily to EWR and pulled the plug on JFK, since claims have been made they are going after pharma (NJ) and finance (downtown NYC) traffic.

There are a lot of nuances. Some people from certain foreign counties might associate Kennedy Airport/John F. Kennedy/JFK with New York City. Key word: certain. Perhaps the President's name is more memorable than an airport with no honorary name (Newark). Often these are African/Asian/very far away places. Europe? Not so much. SN flies to JFK because they carry a lot of pax to/from Africa, as well as Jews living in Brooklyn and Queens going to Antwerp. Not going to dive into that one right now, but Google is your friend. On the flip side, SK flies to EWR because most of their pax are Scandinavian tourists going to Manhattan. And yes, EWR is closer to where the attractions and icons of Manhattan are: downtown. Someone living in upper Manhattan might be split or lean towards JFK (if on the east side). Staten Islanders might also be split or lean towards EWR. And if we are going to talk about "high yield pax", the moneyed burbs with strongest ties to Wall Street are actually mostly in New Jersey (as opposed to Westchester/Long Island where wealth has more diverse sources), so guess where they fly out of.

Some *A airlines fly to both airports to take advantage of different passenger streams (LH, LO, OS). For example, when LO was forced to consolidate at JFK for a while, did the Jersey pax using EWR go to JFK? Nope. They all started flying on other airlines, and of course LO came back as soon as it was allowed to. OS added EWR during this hiatus. They wouldn't consolidate at EWR either, since people living on Long Island and Connecticut are never going to go there. That's another ridiculously expensive bridge to cross plus an additional hour (minimum) of sitting in the worst traffic in the country. On the flip side, you often see Pennsylvania plates at EWR, which you do not see at JFK.

As for terminals... HAH! This is the most ridiculous thing I've seen here. Nobody is using one airport or the other based on how nice or horrible a terminal is (and they are all cr*p in different ways.) People in this town just don't have time or a care for that. But really, does anyone anywhere do that? (Other than A.netters).

People *not from here* make it sound like the states of New York and New Jersey (and Connecticut) have a gorge between them, or even somehow look different, which cannot be further from reality. Meanwhile people live in one and work in the other, or shop/go to school/whatever in the third. It's like crossing the damn Thames. Tri. State. Area.


Well said!!!

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