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DEFlyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:45 am

TG926 descending below MDA

Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:20 am

http://avherald.com/h?article=4d1e782d&opt=0

Anyone with more info or a plot of ADS data?

Seems quite a close call.

Admins, pls delete if double posted. Did a search but found nothing.

Christian
 
N757ST
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: TG926 descending below MDA

Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:31 am

The weather was clear, seems like an unstable approach and go around. I don’t know how unstable they were but on its face that’s not newsworthy, unless they were REALLY unstable.
 
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zeke
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Re: TG926 descending below MDA

Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:40 am

N757ST wrote:
I don’t know how unstable they were but on its face that’s not newsworthy, unless they were REALLY unstable.


My brain matter makes 800 ft at 7 mm about 1430 ft below profile. Air India got lower at Hong Kong, I think down to around 200 ft above water.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=219044
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N757ST
Posts: 1032
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Re: TG926 descending below MDA

Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:55 am

zeke wrote:
N757ST wrote:
I don’t know how unstable they were but on its face that’s not newsworthy, unless they were REALLY unstable.


My brain matter makes 800 ft at 7 mm about 1430 ft below profile. Air India got lower at Hong Kong, I think down to around 200 ft above water.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=219044



Yeah the headline was a smaller font that I didn’t see. Yeah that’s a bit low, maybe there was lower terrain over there and they were using their radar altimeter and got down low, but even then you’d usually do that at around 1500agl. They executed a go around, and I’m guessing if their gear wasn’t down they had all kinds of bells and whistles going off.
 
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conaly
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Re: TG926 descending below MDA

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:09 pm

I've plotted the FR24-path (with some minor tweaks/corrections, to match the data from avherald) into Google Earth for another forum and almost fell out of my chair, when I saw the results:

Image

Image

Image

The red lines show the first approach, which went far to steep and was recovered at around 700ft AGL, the green lines show the second normal approach. Damn, how can they fly this steep at such a low altitude? A few more seconds of descend and they'd have crashed into the city (Rüsselsheim). There must have been more than one thing gone wrong.
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pdp
Posts: 245
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Re: TG926 descending below MDA

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:31 pm

Assuming they were doing the ILS into 07R, how did they get so low? I do note that there's a VOR and a LOC approach so it's possible (although unlikely) that they could have been doing one of those and lost situational awareness?
 
SQ325
Posts: 1305
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:54 pm

Re: TG926 descending below MDA

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:50 pm

looks like they descended into FFM VOR instead of the runway threshold..
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15281
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: TG926 descending below MDA

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:54 pm

Could there have been a wrong reading on their instruments, a mistake by automated systems or wrong info input into control systems ? Fortunately someone in the cockpit saw they were too low and called for a go round.
 
DEFlyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:45 am

Re: TG926 descending below MDA

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:02 pm

Thank you Conaly,

those plots was what I was asking for.

They were quite high initially during the approach it seems?

Hard to see but it seems they were also right of centerline when they dropped below glide. Intercept from the north it seems?

What is Airbus system logic? Can you capture glide without having captured localizer assuming they were still in auto flight.

What is the workload in A350 during possible late runway change? In older Boeing aircraft it takes some steps, especially manually tuning the active ILS frequency and selecting the approach in the FMC. I guess in Airbus it’s more or less a new selection in the FMS? Charts will maybe also load automatically if EFB is interconnected in Airbus types?

Christian
 
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N14AZ
Posts: 4152
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

Re: TG926 descending below MDA

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:05 pm

conaly wrote:
I've plotted the FR24-path (with some minor tweaks/corrections, to match the data from avherald) into Google Earth for another forum and almost fell out of my chair, when I saw the results:

Image

Image

Image

The red lines show the first approach, which went far to steep and was recovered at around 700ft AGL, the green lines show the second normal approach. Damn, how can they fly this steep at such a low altitude? A few more seconds of descend and they'd have crashed into the city (Rüsselsheim). There must have been more than one thing gone wrong.

Wow, looks as if they wanted to have a closer look at the Opel-factory… I was born in this city and went there to high school. Thank you for these pictures.
 
Karlsands
Posts: 230
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Re: TG926 descending below MDA

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:35 pm

Downdraft ?
 
DEFlyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:45 am

Re: TG926 descending below MDA

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:32 pm

SQ325 wrote:
looks like they descended into FFM VOR instead of the runway threshold..


No it was RWY07R
 
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zeke
Posts: 15161
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: TG926 descending below MDA

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:45 pm

DEFlyboy wrote:
What is Airbus system logic? Can you capture glide without having captured localizer assuming they were still in auto flight.


No in order to capture glide slope the loc must be captured.
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