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catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:39 pm

Mods please delete. duplicate.
Last edited by catiii on Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:40 pm

lightsaber wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if LGB transitions to high density A321NEO and A220s.

I love flying out of LGB. People just do not pay enough for the station.


the NEOs aren't going to LGB, especially with the new network changes announced. There's no need for that kind of airplane with that range. The 321ceo HDs can do whatever the NEOs would do from there but the reality is that LGB will remain 320s. It's already been tipped internally where the 220s will likely go.

LGB is a gem., but the city government and community don't see it that way. Kudos to JetBlue for trying to make it work, but why stay where you're not wanted?
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Jetblue senior leadership meeting at LGB

Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:05 pm

Blueknows wrote:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200113005866/en/JetBlue-Airways-Reports-December-Traffic

Numbers are not good, and AVC had a meeting on Monday said news will be released on Thursday...of course no clue


Another well sourced well informed post. Of course "news will be released Thursday." No surprise there. It's the earnings call that's been scheduled for months. And of course AVC can't know what the earnings call will say because that would be in violation of federal laws, unless they're deemed insiders which they aren't.
Last edited by catiii on Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 688
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:07 pm

catiii wrote:
CaptCoolHand wrote:
There hasn’t been anything released as to when the 190s will actually leave property. At least to my knowledge.

We did fly the 190s out west if you look back to 2011-2012. The operation failed because recovery would take as much as 24hrs for mx and crew issues. To your point we needed a mid country fade for the thing and it never came.


It's been said at open crewmember meetings internally that as the 220s come in the 190s will leave in a 1 for 1 basis.


Which makes zero sense. They have less neos than expected, why not retain the e190s for now until deliveries get back on track.

Which is what I really suspect they will do.
 
11C
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:07 pm

catiii wrote:
CaptCoolHand wrote:
There hasn’t been anything released as to when the 190s will actually leave property. At least to my knowledge.

We did fly the 190s out west if you look back to 2011-2012. The operation failed because recovery would take as much as 24hrs for mx and crew issues. To your point we needed a mid country fade for the thing and it never came.


It's been said at open crewmember meetings internally that as the 220s come in the 190s will leave in a 1 for 1 basis.


I agree with you that the company has said this numerous times, but two things cause me to be a little skeptical. One, Airbus delivery problems may make it tempting to hold on to them temporarily to solve capacity shortfalls. Two, the mission of the two aircraft is not identical, hence an awkward proposition swapping one for one. There may be other unknowns driving the retirement of the 190’s that I don’t know about, but I will be curious to see how it plays out.
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:18 pm

11C wrote:
catiii wrote:
CaptCoolHand wrote:
There hasn’t been anything released as to when the 190s will actually leave property. At least to my knowledge.

We did fly the 190s out west if you look back to 2011-2012. The operation failed because recovery would take as much as 24hrs for mx and crew issues. To your point we needed a mid country fade for the thing and it never came.


It's been said at open crewmember meetings internally that as the 220s come in the 190s will leave in a 1 for 1 basis.


I agree with you that the company has said this numerous times, but two things cause me to be a little skeptical. One, Airbus delivery problems may make it tempting to hold on to them temporarily to solve capacity shortfalls. Two, the mission of the two aircraft is not identical, hence an awkward proposition swapping one for one. There may be other unknowns driving the retirement of the 190’s that I don’t know about, but I will be curious to see how it plays out.


Of the 60, 30 are leased and 30 are owned. The leases are coming due around the time of the 220 deliveries. At minimum the leased ones will exit on a 1:1 basis. I agree though that ASM pressures from Airbus 32X delays mean that JetBlue will likely keep the 30 owned ones longer than anticipated.
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:18 pm

11C wrote:
catiii wrote:
CaptCoolHand wrote:
There hasn’t been anything released as to when the 190s will actually leave property. At least to my knowledge.

We did fly the 190s out west if you look back to 2011-2012. The operation failed because recovery would take as much as 24hrs for mx and crew issues. To your point we needed a mid country fade for the thing and it never came.


It's been said at open crewmember meetings internally that as the 220s come in the 190s will leave in a 1 for 1 basis.


I agree with you that the company has said this numerous times, but two things cause me to be a little skeptical. One, Airbus delivery problems may make it tempting to hold on to them temporarily to solve capacity shortfalls. Two, the mission of the two aircraft is not identical, hence an awkward proposition swapping one for one. There may be other unknowns driving the retirement of the 190’s that I don’t know about, but I will be curious to see how it plays out.


Of the 60, 30 are leased and 30 are owned. The leases are coming due around the time of the 220 deliveries. At minimum the leased ones will exit on a 1:1 basis. I agree though that ASM pressures from Airbus 32X delays mean that JetBlue will likely keep the 30 owned ones longer than anticipated.
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:19 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
catiii wrote:
CaptCoolHand wrote:
There hasn’t been anything released as to when the 190s will actually leave property. At least to my knowledge.

We did fly the 190s out west if you look back to 2011-2012. The operation failed because recovery would take as much as 24hrs for mx and crew issues. To your point we needed a mid country fade for the thing and it never came.


It's been said at open crewmember meetings internally that as the 220s come in the 190s will leave in a 1 for 1 basis.


Which makes zero sense. They have less neos than expected, why not retain the e190s for now until deliveries get back on track.

Which is what I really suspect they will do.


I'm not saying it made sense. I'm saying what they said.
 
RodFarva
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat May 26, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:22 pm

catiii wrote:
CaptCoolHand wrote:
There hasn’t been anything released as to when the 190s will actually leave property. At least to my knowledge.

We did fly the 190s out west if you look back to 2011-2012. The operation failed because recovery would take as much as 24hrs for mx and crew issues. To your point we needed a mid country fade for the thing and it never came.


It's been said at open crewmember meetings internally that as the 220s come in the 190s will leave in a 1 for 1 basis.


Flt ops has said the first one will leave in 2023.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 688
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:29 pm

catiii wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
catiii wrote:

It's been said at open crewmember meetings internally that as the 220s come in the 190s will leave in a 1 for 1 basis.


Which makes zero sense. They have less neos than expected, why not retain the e190s for now until deliveries get back on track.

Which is what I really suspect they will do.


I'm not saying it made sense. I'm saying what they said.


Well you know how that goes...

Anyways, this airline annalist in this article from last night says:

"As a result, we now see M&A as more likely (70% vs. 50% previously)"


Speaking of Southwest to B6

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgol ... c5b3851fe9

hmmmm
 
ScottB
Posts: 6922
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:45 pm

CobaltScar wrote:


Southwest won't buy JetBlue to solve the short-term problem of the 737MAX grounding. They, IMO, will eventually buy JetBlue for BOS, JFK, and critical mass in the Caribbean/Latin America. B6's cuts at LGB are immaterial; even if they were required to relinquish LGB slots as part of conditions imposed by DOJ/DOT, it's unlikely many of those slots would be taken by competitors and they'd still be able to use the slots on a rolling basis.

catiii wrote:
Of the 60, 30 are leased and 30 are owned. The leases are coming due around the time of the 220 deliveries. At minimum the leased ones will exit on a 1:1 basis.


That really depends on the lessors. If the market for leasing E190s is weak, it's easy enough to imagine lessors extending leases on reasonable terms rather than parking the aircraft.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5065
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:56 pm

I would be shocked if e90 are out of jetblue fleet by 2025. When was the last time JetBlue did anything fleet related on schedule? Especially with neo delivery issues.
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:56 pm

Some interesting conversations that’s for sure. Guess it’s a little off topic now but what’s the news on who’s rumored to be in the running for JetBlue’s left slots. Obviously WN is gonna try to pick some up but what about DAL, AAL, or a new carrier?
 
CaptCoolHand
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:35 pm

catiii wrote:
CaptCoolHand wrote:
There hasn’t been anything released as to when the 190s will actually leave property. At least to my knowledge.

We did fly the 190s out west if you look back to 2011-2012. The operation failed because recovery would take as much as 24hrs for mx and crew issues. To your point we needed a mid country fade for the thing and it never came.


It's been said at open crewmember meetings internally that as the 220s come in the 190s will leave in a 1 for 1 basis.


I hear you. I’ve also heard them. But until I see that on an investor sheet I’m a little skeptical. They say lots of things.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:54 pm

JetBlue's A223 will seat 140 , Southwest's Max 7s will hold 150. Is the operational efficiency of the A223 good enough to make up for the 10 seat gap if Southwest buys JetBlue and keeps to the A223s on order and the first one due to come in late this year.
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:26 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
if Southwest buys JetBlue


To quote an old boss: If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas.

Southwest isn't buying JetBlue, and anyway it's doubtful it could clear the regulators.
 
SWADawg
Posts: 565
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:01 pm

catiii wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
if Southwest buys JetBlue


To quote an old boss: If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas.

Southwest isn't buying JetBlue, and anyway it's doubtful it could clear the regulators.

Why wouldn’t it clear the regulators? Show me the overlap. The combined Airline would have a powerhouse route network that could effectively compete with the Legacies and be a viable #4 carrier to launch long haul across both the Atlantic and Pacific eventually. Divestitures would be minimal if any. Just because some on this site don’t want to see this happen doesn’t mean that it won’t. As Joe DeNardi stated in that article, I too would put the possibility of an M&A between these two at 70%.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7762
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:12 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
JetBlue's A223 will seat 140 , Southwest's Max 7s will hold 150. Is the operational efficiency of the A223 good enough to make up for the 10 seat gap if Southwest buys JetBlue and keeps to the A223s on order and the first one due to come in late this year.


I'd say that's not so much a fuel efficiency question but if WN would have tolerance for a 3rd type - and splitting pilots 3-ways. WN got rid of 88 717s. They could certainly dump a dozen A220s (and convert the balance of the order to A32x neos).
 
ScottB
Posts: 6922
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:38 pm

catiii wrote:
Southwest isn't buying JetBlue, and anyway it's doubtful it could clear the regulators.


There really wouldn't be any reason for regulators to block a merger. Very little overlap exists between the two carriers: B6's two largest hubs are in markets where WN is little more than a footnote and B6 has close to zero presence in WN's ten largest markets. Though a combined WN-B6 would be the largest domestic carrier, it would also still be quite a bit smaller in system RPMs or ASMs than any of DL, AA, or UA.
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:39 pm

SWADawg wrote:
catiii wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
if Southwest buys JetBlue


To quote an old boss: If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas.

Southwest isn't buying JetBlue, and anyway it's doubtful it could clear the regulators.

Why wouldn’t it clear the regulators? Show me the overlap. The combined Airline would have a powerhouse route network that could effectively compete with the Legacies and be a viable #4 carrier to launch long haul across both the Atlantic and Pacific eventually. Divestitures would be minimal if any. Just because some on this site don’t want to see this happen doesn’t mean that it won’t. As Joe DeNardi stated in that article, I too would put the possibility of an M&A between these two at 70%.


Overlap isn't the issue (although FLL would be challenged). And a "viable #4 carrier?" You're kidding right? WN is what, ~20% of the US market, and the #1 carrier in the US by market share? The regulators likely would not allow the carrier with the most market share in the industry to eliminate a competitor. It has nothing to do with if I want to see it happen or not, or if Joe DeNardi wants to again regurgitate the same tired analysis he's had since the fall.

Now a viable #4 might be an F9/B6/NK hookup...
 
Abeam79
Posts: 325
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:52 pm

B6 WILL NOT be bought by WN. Period. They will not fork up that money, and they will destroy the market B6 has built up and admired by Ny'ers and bostonites to a texas cowboy like product. they won't keep the clientele going up against DL/UA in Ny area specifically. Just look at ATL post air tran buyout and you'll see how fast they will lose what B6 built.
This is just mere analyst to make a speculation to pump the stock price.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 688
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:25 pm

catiii wrote:
Now a viable #4 might be an F9/B6/NK hookup...



To speak of evil is to invite it to dinner.

Instead say #4 might be B6/AS/HA, folks at B6 need to move forward in workers rights and pay, not backwards.
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:09 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
catiii wrote:
Now a viable #4 might be an F9/B6/NK hookup...



To speak of evil is to invite it to dinner.

Instead say #4 might be B6/AS/HA, folks at B6 need to move forward in workers rights and pay, not backwards.


On paper yes but I don’t know that AS has the appetite or ability to pull off another merger. They haven’t done so great with the Virgin merger.
 
User avatar
TheLunchbox
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:12 am

it never ends.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 781
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:18 am

catiii wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
catiii wrote:
Now a viable #4 might be an F9/B6/NK hookup...



To speak of evil is to invite it to dinner.

Instead say #4 might be B6/AS/HA, folks at B6 need to move forward in workers rights and pay, not backwards.


On paper yes but I don’t know that AS has the appetite or ability to pull off another merger. They haven’t done so great with the Virgin merger.


Crazy idea time.

B6 absorbs AS, creating a solid #5. Then it partners with the proposed “Moxy” airline to help feed its costal hubs.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: Jetblue senior leadership meeting at LGB

Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:22 am

catiii wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200113005866/en/JetBlue-Airways-Reports-December-Traffic

Numbers are not good, and AVC had a meeting on Monday said news will be released on Thursday...of course no clue


Another well sourced well informed post. Of course "news will be released Thursday." No surprise there. It's the earnings call that's been scheduled for months. And of course AVC can't know what the earnings call will say because that would be in violation of federal laws, unless they're deemed insiders which they aren't.


The Thursday was in reference to last Thursday. Not the earnings call. They are not insiders and insiders have not bought B6 stock in about a year. Actually they are selling
 
Blueknows
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:38 am

catiii wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
catiii wrote:

Literally everything you type is incorrect. JetBlue didn’t put “all eggs in A220 basket.” JetBlue was expecting 13 321neos this year and, like every other Airbus narrowbody customer, saw significant delays to that schedule because of airbus manufacturing issues. The A220s have nothing to do with LGB. In fact the 321neo delays have nothing to do with LGB. LGB could not justify its presence at these levels in the network given the lack of support by the community and city council.

Do yourself a favor and stop posting. You make yourself look foolish every time you do.


What r you talking about. Everything comes down to money and airplanes. JetBlue may have a healthy cash positive bank account...but if your not getting planes then you have to cut. Every plane at B6 is accounted for. When a cut happens planes free up. B6 just can’t afford LGB because planes have to go in routes that make money. If B6 had more planes it would be a different story. Ow I’m
Sorry the E190 are never having MX issues/delayed ...your looking at this situation as 1 dimensional. Need to put your 3D glasses on to see the whole picture


Let's look at all the inaccuracies in your post.

You said: "B6 put all eggs in A220 basket and it didn’t work the way they planned(shocker)." This is factually inaccurate. JetBlue was never planning on the 220s to enter the fleet earlier than Q4. The airline's eggs are not solely in a 220 basket. Current network decisions have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE A220. Full stop.

You said: "Robin has already stated airbus is still running delays on delivery schedule." You think these are A220 delays. Again, you are mistaken. If you work at JetBlue, which you purport to do, you'd have to be deaf and blind to not know about the massive 321neo delays which have pressured ASMs in 2019 and into 2020. The A220s are on schedule and not delayed. Airbus narrowbody delays are impacting the 32X lines, and most notably the 321 variants because of ACF.

You said: " B6 needed the planes to add routes and frequency." Incorrect again. The A220 was not built into the 2020 network plan.

You said: "I’m Sorry the E190 are never having MX issues/delayed." Again, you are incorrect. If you work at JetBlue as you purport to do, you'd have to be deaf and blind to not know the issues with the aging 190 fleet which is why the airline can't exit them quickly enough.

You said: "your looking at this situation as 1 dimensional. Need to put your 3D glasses on to see the whole picture" In as much as I again just pointed out the substantial factual inaccuracies in your post(s), you may want to rethink that.

I don’t want to keep doing this. The first a220 was supposed to arrive in September 2019 and then got pushed to 1q 2020, Steve priest went over to factory(find out more info on delays)and Robin said on last podcast a220 arriving 4q 2020.
I never referred to delays as a220. The a220 are not airbus they are bombardier cs300 series just renamed.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... 20-program

B6 would have been better off to get new Embraer jets. They were willing to buy back current fleet and convert to newer models. Basically switching them out, and would not have to get new sims for training.
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:15 am

Blueknows wrote:
catiii wrote:
Blueknows wrote:

What r you talking about. Everything comes down to money and airplanes. JetBlue may have a healthy cash positive bank account...but if your not getting planes then you have to cut. Every plane at B6 is accounted for. When a cut happens planes free up. B6 just can’t afford LGB because planes have to go in routes that make money. If B6 had more planes it would be a different story. Ow I’m
Sorry the E190 are never having MX issues/delayed ...your looking at this situation as 1 dimensional. Need to put your 3D glasses on to see the whole picture


Let's look at all the inaccuracies in your post.

You said: "B6 put all eggs in A220 basket and it didn’t work the way they planned(shocker)." This is factually inaccurate. JetBlue was never planning on the 220s to enter the fleet earlier than Q4. The airline's eggs are not solely in a 220 basket. Current network decisions have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE A220. Full stop.

You said: "Robin has already stated airbus is still running delays on delivery schedule." You think these are A220 delays. Again, you are mistaken. If you work at JetBlue, which you purport to do, you'd have to be deaf and blind to not know about the massive 321neo delays which have pressured ASMs in 2019 and into 2020. The A220s are on schedule and not delayed. Airbus narrowbody delays are impacting the 32X lines, and most notably the 321 variants because of ACF.

You said: " B6 needed the planes to add routes and frequency." Incorrect again. The A220 was not built into the 2020 network plan.

You said: "I’m Sorry the E190 are never having MX issues/delayed." Again, you are incorrect. If you work at JetBlue as you purport to do, you'd have to be deaf and blind to not know the issues with the aging 190 fleet which is why the airline can't exit them quickly enough.

You said: "your looking at this situation as 1 dimensional. Need to put your 3D glasses on to see the whole picture" In as much as I again just pointed out the substantial factual inaccuracies in your post(s), you may want to rethink that.

I don’t want to keep doing this. The first a220 was supposed to arrive in September 2019 and then got pushed to 1q 2020, Steve priest went over to factory(find out more info on delays)and Robin said on last podcast a220 arriving 4q 2020.
I never referred to delays as a220. The a220 are not airbus they are bombardier cs300 series just renamed.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... 20-program

B6 would have been better off to get new Embraer jets. They were willing to buy back current fleet and convert to newer models. Basically switching them out, and would not have to get new sims for training.


You sure about that A220 timeline buddy? Nothing was supposed to arrive in 2019, and nothing was pushed to 2020. Google is your friend. It will save you from posting inaccurate items. Here’s the press release when they announced the order:

http://mediaroom.jetblue.com/investor-r ... -211604881

And the key part:

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- JetBlue (NASDAQ:JBLU) today announced it has ordered 60 Airbus A220-300 aircraft – previously called the Bombardier CS300 – for delivery beginning in 2020,

The more you post it shows how little you know. There are no delays with the A220. Airbus is delivering them on time.

And yes, your post here was all about A220 delays:

Blueknows wrote:
This all has nothing to do with strategy. B6 just does not have airplanes. This is period end of story for B6. B6 put all eggs in A220 basket and it didn’t work the way they planned(shocker). B6 1st A220 will arrive 4q 2020. Robin has already stated airbus is still running delays on delivery schedule. B6 needed the planes to add routes and frequency. If you have a limited amount of planes ...you have to put them in places that have to make money. It’s all about money.


Btw, go look at the filings and see who’s buying stock :(
 
flyby519
Posts: 1565
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:36 am

ScottB wrote:
That really depends on the lessors. If the market for leasing E190s is weak, it's easy enough to imagine lessors extending leases on reasonable terms rather than parking the aircraft.


100% this. I cant imagine the E190 leasing market ever heating up, particularly considering how poorly the E2 is doing. Hell, the lessors might actually pay B6 to keep the frames :laughing: Also, I'm not so sure the 321s or 220s will continue to be delivered at any reliable rate, so it might be smart to hold the 190s til things are a bit more stable.

TheLunchbox wrote:
it never ends.


There can be only one...airline. :stirthepot:
Last edited by flyby519 on Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:45 am

flyby519 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
That really depends on the lessors. If the market for leasing E190s is weak, it's easy enough to imagine lessors extending leases on reasonable terms rather than parking the aircraft.


100% this. I cant imagine the E190 leasing market ever heating up, particularly considering how poorly the E2 is doing. Hell, the lessors might actually pay B6 to keep the frames :laughing:

:


They can always sell them to Moxy!
 
flyby519
Posts: 1565
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:48 am

catiii wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
That really depends on the lessors. If the market for leasing E190s is weak, it's easy enough to imagine lessors extending leases on reasonable terms rather than parking the aircraft.


100% this. I cant imagine the E190 leasing market ever heating up, particularly considering how poorly the E2 is doing. Hell, the lessors might actually pay B6 to keep the frames :laughing:

:


They can always sell them to Moxy!


:crazy: How could I forget about that awesome plan!
 
Blueknows
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:10 am

catiii wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
catiii wrote:

Let's look at all the inaccuracies in your post.

You said: "B6 put all eggs in A220 basket and it didn’t work the way they planned(shocker)." This is factually inaccurate. JetBlue was never planning on the 220s to enter the fleet earlier than Q4. The airline's eggs are not solely in a 220 basket. Current network decisions have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE A220. Full stop.

You said: "Robin has already stated airbus is still running delays on delivery schedule." You think these are A220 delays. Again, you are mistaken. If you work at JetBlue, which you purport to do, you'd have to be deaf and blind to not know about the massive 321neo delays which have pressured ASMs in 2019 and into 2020. The A220s are on schedule and not delayed. Airbus narrowbody delays are impacting the 32X lines, and most notably the 321 variants because of ACF.

You said: " B6 needed the planes to add routes and frequency." Incorrect again. The A220 was not built into the 2020 network plan.

You said: "I’m Sorry the E190 are never having MX issues/delayed." Again, you are incorrect. If you work at JetBlue as you purport to do, you'd have to be deaf and blind to not know the issues with the aging 190 fleet which is why the airline can't exit them quickly enough.

You said: "your looking at this situation as 1 dimensional. Need to put your 3D glasses on to see the whole picture" In as much as I again just pointed out the substantial factual inaccuracies in your post(s), you may want to rethink that.

I don’t want to keep doing this. The first a220 was supposed to arrive in September 2019 and then got pushed to 1q 2020, Steve priest went over to factory(find out more info on delays)and Robin said on last podcast a220 arriving 4q 2020.
I never referred to delays as a220. The a220 are not airbus they are bombardier cs300 series just renamed.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... 20-program

B6 would have been better off to get new Embraer jets. They were willing to buy back current fleet and convert to newer models. Basically switching them out, and would not have to get new sims for training.


You sure about that A220 timeline buddy? Nothing was supposed to arrive in 2019, and nothing was pushed to 2020. Google is your friend. It will save you from posting inaccurate items. Here’s the press release when they announced the order:

http://mediaroom.jetblue.com/investor-r ... -211604881

And the key part:

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- JetBlue (NASDAQ:JBLU) today announced it has ordered 60 Airbus A220-300 aircraft – previously called the Bombardier CS300 – for delivery beginning in 2020,

The more you post it shows how little you know. There are no delays with the A220. Airbus is delivering them on time.

And yes, your post here was all about A220 delays:

Blueknows wrote:
This all has nothing to do with strategy. B6 just does not have airplanes. This is period end of story for B6. B6 put all eggs in A220 basket and it didn’t work the way they planned(shocker). B6 1st A220 will arrive 4q 2020. Robin has already stated airbus is still running delays on delivery schedule. B6 needed the planes to add routes and frequency. If you have a limited amount of planes ...you have to put them in places that have to make money. It’s all about money.


Btw, go look at the filings and see who’s buying stock :(


I was in the room when they told us. They were hoping to have .1st a220 September 2019 and have Mx look at aircrafts, etc and be ready in November 2019. The aircraft would go into service 1q 2020. By September they knew it was not coming and pushed to 1 a220 q1 2020. Then pushed back due to delays, so 1 a220 q4 2020. We were originaly supposed to get 4 this year
 
Blueknows
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:25 am

July 12th 2018.
The day B6 announced A220. At the time here was the projected order schedule.

A220 delivery sked: 5/2020 4/2021 8/2022 19/2023 22/2024 2/2025

A321neo delivery sked: 13/2019 20/2020 20/2021 23/2022 33/2023 34/2024 5/2025

Getting 1 A220 in 2020
Received 6 321neo in 2019
B6 is way behind hence the cuts to no profitable routes. Need the airplanes
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:59 pm

ScottB wrote:
catiii wrote:
Southwest isn't buying JetBlue, and anyway it's doubtful it could clear the regulators.


There really wouldn't be any reason for regulators to block a merger. Very little overlap exists between the two carriers: B6's two largest hubs are in markets where WN is little more than a footnote and B6 has close to zero presence in WN's ten largest markets. Though a combined WN-B6 would be the largest domestic carrier, it would also still be quite a bit smaller in system RPMs or ASMs than any of DL, AA, or UA.


It could easily be sold as increased competition from a nationwide perspective. And ... those A220s could be used in opening next tier markets like XNA, TYS, SGF , JAC, BZN and so on.
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:52 pm

Blueknows wrote:
catiii wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
I don’t want to keep doing this. The first a220 was supposed to arrive in September 2019 and then got pushed to 1q 2020, Steve priest went over to factory(find out more info on delays)and Robin said on last podcast a220 arriving 4q 2020.
I never referred to delays as a220. The a220 are not airbus they are bombardier cs300 series just renamed.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... 20-program

B6 would have been better off to get new Embraer jets. They were willing to buy back current fleet and convert to newer models. Basically switching them out, and would not have to get new sims for training.


You sure about that A220 timeline buddy? Nothing was supposed to arrive in 2019, and nothing was pushed to 2020. Google is your friend. It will save you from posting inaccurate items. Here’s the press release when they announced the order:

http://mediaroom.jetblue.com/investor-r ... -211604881

And the key part:

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- JetBlue (NASDAQ:JBLU) today announced it has ordered 60 Airbus A220-300 aircraft – previously called the Bombardier CS300 – for delivery beginning in 2020,

The more you post it shows how little you know. There are no delays with the A220. Airbus is delivering them on time.

And yes, your post here was all about A220 delays:

Blueknows wrote:
This all has nothing to do with strategy. B6 just does not have airplanes. This is period end of story for B6. B6 put all eggs in A220 basket and it didn’t work the way they planned(shocker). B6 1st A220 will arrive 4q 2020. Robin has already stated airbus is still running delays on delivery schedule. B6 needed the planes to add routes and frequency. If you have a limited amount of planes ...you have to put them in places that have to make money. It’s all about money.


Btw, go look at the filings and see who’s buying stock :(


I was in the room when they told us. They were hoping to have .1st a220 September 2019 and have Mx look at aircrafts, etc and be ready in November 2019. The aircraft would go into service 1q 2020. By September they knew it was not coming and pushed to 1 a220 q1 2020. Then pushed back due to delays, so 1 a220 q4 2020. We were originaly supposed to get 4 this year


I was in the same room. That was never said. The airplane is on track for delivery and EIS as scheduled.
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:55 pm

So which is it? This:

Blueknows wrote:
July 12th 2018.
The day B6 announced A220. At the time here was the projected order schedule.

A220 delivery sked: 5/2020 4/2021 8/2022 19/2023 22/2024 2/2025


Getting 1 A220 in 2020



or this:

Blueknows wrote:
I was in the room when they told us. They were hoping to have .1st a220 September 2019 and have Mx look at aircrafts, etc and be ready in November 2019. The aircraft would go into service 1q 2020. By September they knew it was not coming and pushed to 1 a220 q1 2020. Then pushed back due to delays, so 1 a220 q4 2020. We were originaly supposed to get 4 this year



Can't have it both ways.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 432
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:11 pm

catiii wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
catiii wrote:

You sure about that A220 timeline buddy? Nothing was supposed to arrive in 2019, and nothing was pushed to 2020. Google is your friend. It will save you from posting inaccurate items. Here’s the press release when they announced the order:

http://mediaroom.jetblue.com/investor-r ... -211604881

And the key part:

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- JetBlue (NASDAQ:JBLU) today announced it has ordered 60 Airbus A220-300 aircraft – previously called the Bombardier CS300 – for delivery beginning in 2020,

The more you post it shows how little you know. There are no delays with the A220. Airbus is delivering them on time.

And yes, your post here was all about A220 delays:



Btw, go look at the filings and see who’s buying stock :(


I was in the room when they told us. They were hoping to have .1st a220 September 2019 and have Mx look at aircrafts, etc and be ready in November 2019. The aircraft would go into service 1q 2020. By September they knew it was not coming and pushed to 1 a220 q1 2020. Then pushed back due to delays, so 1 a220 q4 2020. We were originaly supposed to get 4 this year


I was in the same room. That was never said. The airplane is on track for delivery and EIS as scheduled.

The schedule was delayed, but not from Airbus, from B6. They pushed back the delivery schedule to the current one due to wanting more time to choose the cabin interiors. So in a way, your both right.
 
unusualattitude
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:49 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:13 pm

Just stop arguing with the gate agent. Blueknows has done nothing but post bad data again and again and again. We just need to stop engaging.
 
nine4nine
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:42 pm

unusualattitude wrote:
Just stop arguing with the gate agent. Blueknows has done nothing but post bad data again and again and again. We just need to stop engaging.



Aw come on leave blueknows alone. This platform would be super stale and dull if we didn’t have some form of entertainment and drama.
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
trueblew
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:21 pm

nine4nine wrote:
unusualattitude wrote:
Just stop arguing with the gate agent. Blueknows has done nothing but post bad data again and again and again. We just need to stop engaging.



Aw come on leave blueknows alone. This platform would be super stale and dull if we didn’t have some form of entertainment and drama.


Speaking of drama, JB management just slapped all of their employees in the face with the ZERO profit sharing announcement. Expect service to go further downhill due to a lack of give a s---.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5065
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:51 pm

trueblew wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
unusualattitude wrote:
Just stop arguing with the gate agent. Blueknows has done nothing but post bad data again and again and again. We just need to stop engaging.



Aw come on leave blueknows alone. This platform would be super stale and dull if we didn’t have some form of entertainment and drama.


Speaking of drama, JB management just slapped all of their employees in the face with the ZERO profit sharing announcement. Expect service to go further downhill due to a lack of give a s---.

Isn't bonus and profit sharing kind of the same thing? Extra salary.

Not saying the bonus is anything to write home about.
 
trueblew
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:57 pm

tphuang wrote:
trueblew wrote:
nine4nine wrote:


Aw come on leave blueknows alone. This platform would be super stale and dull if we didn’t have some form of entertainment and drama.


Speaking of drama, JB management just slapped all of their employees in the face with the ZERO profit sharing announcement. Expect service to go further downhill due to a lack of give a s---.

Isn't bonus and profit sharing kind of the same thing? Extra salary.

Not saying the bonus is anything to write home about.


I think when other airlines (notably Delta) are giving 1-2 months pay as a recognition to the employees for generating such large profits, and JB is giving zero while their margins were quite healthy as well, it speaks volumes about what management thinks about their employees. Front line morale has already been declining. This surely ought to demoralize the customer-facing employees further and degrade the product. Very shameful and short sighted, but what most have come to expect from JB management.
 
speedbird2263
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:07 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:19 pm

unusualattitude wrote:
Just stop arguing with the gate agent. Blueknows has done nothing but post bad data again and again and again. We just need to stop engaging.


“Gate agent” is being quite generous of you. Carry on.
Straight'n Up 'N Fly Right Son
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:54 am

trueblew wrote:
tphuang wrote:
trueblew wrote:

Speaking of drama, JB management just slapped all of their employees in the face with the ZERO profit sharing announcement. Expect service to go further downhill due to a lack of give a s---.

Isn't bonus and profit sharing kind of the same thing? Extra salary.

Not saying the bonus is anything to write home about.


I think when other airlines (notably Delta) are giving 1-2 months pay as a recognition to the employees for generating such large profits, and JB is giving zero while their margins were quite healthy as well, it speaks volumes about what management thinks about their employees. Front line morale has already been declining. This surely ought to demoralize the customer-facing employees further and degrade the product. Very shameful and short sighted, but what most have come to expect from JB management.


You got a 5% contribution to your 401k. What’s AA paying in profit sharing? Or AS? Or WN? Or NK? Or F9? I’ll give you a hint...

If profit sharing is your thing then go to DL. They’re hiring all the time.
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:55 am

Planeboy17 wrote:
catiii wrote:
Blueknows wrote:

I was in the room when they told us. They were hoping to have .1st a220 September 2019 and have Mx look at aircrafts, etc and be ready in November 2019. The aircraft would go into service 1q 2020. By September they knew it was not coming and pushed to 1 a220 q1 2020. Then pushed back due to delays, so 1 a220 q4 2020. We were originaly supposed to get 4 this year


I was in the same room. That was never said. The airplane is on track for delivery and EIS as scheduled.

The schedule was delayed, but not from Airbus, from B6. They pushed back the delivery schedule to the current one due to wanting more time to choose the cabin interiors. So in a way, your both right.


Except it wasn’t. And there was never a plan to take delivery in 2019. It’s been consistently late 2020 and entry into service in 21. Full stop.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 432
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:47 pm

catiii wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
catiii wrote:

I was in the same room. That was never said. The airplane is on track for delivery and EIS as scheduled.

The schedule was delayed, but not from Airbus, from B6. They pushed back the delivery schedule to the current one due to wanting more time to choose the cabin interiors. So in a way, your both right.


Except it wasn’t. And there was never a plan to take delivery in 2019. It’s been consistently late 2020 and entry into service in 21. Full stop.

They were originally supposed to take 4 220s in 2020. That’s a fact. They pushed back delivery to 1 plane now.
 
RodFarva
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat May 26, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:52 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
catiii wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
The schedule was delayed, but not from Airbus, from B6. They pushed back the delivery schedule to the current one due to wanting more time to choose the cabin interiors. So in a way, your both right.


Except it wasn’t. And there was never a plan to take delivery in 2019. It’s been consistently late 2020 and entry into service in 21. Full stop.

They were originally supposed to take 4 220s in 2020. That’s a fact. They pushed back delivery to 1 plane now.


It is not a fact they were supposed to take 4 in 2020. They were originally supposed to take 5 in 2020^. When the order was firmed up, the delivery schedule was changed to 1 aircraft delivery in 2020*.

I don't mean to come off as rude, and I hope everyone takes this as genuine criticism. I'm not targeting you specifically when I say this either. If you guys want to have discussions regarding facts, then you should take the extra time to research what you're presenting as fact instead of just going from memory. Hearsay of what you supposedly heard from another front line employee or management is not factual information either because these people say lots of things and in many cases, what they said is simply not true.

I'm also not saying that you shouldn't post things here that are hearsay, but if you do, do not go around declaring it as being fact either. That's probably one of the biggest issues people have with a frequent poster in this thread. They go around posting documents they aren't supposed to be posting and they regurgitate something they thought, or actually heard and scream that the information in question is factual. In reality it's not factual, but it provides genuinely interesting discussion.

^3Q2018 Earnings Presentation: Appendix C http://blueir.investproductions.com/~/m ... ations.pdf

*4Q2018 Earnings Presentation: Appendix C http://blueir.investproductions.com/~/m ... tation.pdf
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:39 am

Planeboy17 wrote:
catiii wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
The schedule was delayed, but not from Airbus, from B6. They pushed back the delivery schedule to the current one due to wanting more time to choose the cabin interiors. So in a way, your both right.


Except it wasn’t. And there was never a plan to take delivery in 2019. It’s been consistently late 2020 and entry into service in 21. Full stop.

They were originally supposed to take 4 220s in 2020. That’s a fact. They pushed back delivery to 1 plane now.


You’re agreeing with me. The other poster claimed JetBlue was originally supposed to take 220s in 2019. That was never the case.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:21 am

catiii wrote:
trueblew wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Isn't bonus and profit sharing kind of the same thing? Extra salary.

Not saying the bonus is anything to write home about.


I think when other airlines (notably Delta) are giving 1-2 months pay as a recognition to the employees for generating such large profits, and JB is giving zero while their margins were quite healthy as well, it speaks volumes about what management thinks about their employees. Front line morale has already been declining. This surely ought to demoralize the customer-facing employees further and degrade the product. Very shameful and short sighted, but what most have come to expect from JB management.


You got a 5% contribution to your 401k. What’s AA paying in profit sharing? Or AS? Or WN? Or NK? Or F9? I’ll give you a hint...

If profit sharing is your thing then go to DL. They’re hiring all the time.


I can't speak for the other but we at AS have been told we can around a months pay from our PBP (aka Profit Sharing). Payout is Jan 29, we'll find out exactly how much we each get on Jan. 28. It's not 16.6% like DL's but then again, as an AS FA I have a very good health plan, 7.5% 401k match, excellent sick leave, productivity bonuses that are easy to achieve, competitive compensation and quarterly bonuses based on certain metrics (in 2020 we got around $1000). AND, as an extra benefit - all this is contractual.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26562
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: Updated: Jetblue trims LGB further

Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:41 am

What I don't get about Long Beach is how they think these slots necessarily reduce noise. LGB is an incredibly busy GA airport and gets tons of traffic that has nothing to do with the airlines. Just curfew departures and be done with the slots.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
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