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Mortyman
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Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:24 pm

Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs


* Airbus releases images of succesful automatic takeoffs at its test runway in France.
* An A350-1000 was fitted with image recognition technology.
* The planemaker looks to have brought pilotless commercial jet flight one step closer.



According to the article a large % of passengers are against this Development With pilotless Aircraft

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/16/airbus- ... ook%7Cmain
 
Redd
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:36 pm

As per the article
Swiss bank UBS has estimated that a pilot is typically in full control of a jet plane for an average of just 7 minutes on each flight.


I'd surely hope that the pilots are in full control of an airliner the whole flight. :rotfl: Manual control or hand flying, is it that hard to do the proper research? And jet plane, really? What is this, the 1950's? :banghead:
 
micstatic
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:49 pm

a large percent of passengers are against this until they are able to book flights from JFK-LAX for $39 round trip.
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Varsity1
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:50 pm

Doesn't solve any of the problems with pilotless flight. The L1011 could taxi on the ground on it's autopilot, in the 1970's.
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:13 pm

It's a gradual development.

If it can be proved it is safer then with a pilot; there's more redundancy, operational awareness etc. it might become possible to have just 2 pilots instead of 3 on flights where 3 are required now.
E.g. on cargo aircraft. It's not all that black & white.

A decade ago we had a similar brake-to-vacate and overrun protection discussion.
Now nobody is asking questions anymore .. https://youtu.be/bZuW9Ay6akU?t=304
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:19 pm

Mortyman wrote:
According to the article a large % of passengers are against this Development With pilotless Aircraft


There are still 2 pilots in the cockpit. Automatic takeoff, just like automatic landing, still require pilots to monitor the systems and program the computers.

This is not about pilotless aircraft.
Good moaning!
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:14 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs


* Airbus releases images of succesful automatic takeoffs at its test runway in France.
* An A350-1000 was fitted with image recognition technology.
* The planemaker looks to have brought pilotless commercial jet flight one step closer.



According to the article a large % of passengers are against this Development With pilotless Aircraft

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/16/airbus- ... ook%7Cmain


A short video clip from Airbus YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TIBeso4abU

It show the take off phase where the aircraft tracks the runway centreline.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:23 pm

Very nice, eager to see autonomous RTO. So any Tesla driver can fly A350, right.
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anshabhi
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:23 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Doesn't solve any of the problems with pilotless flight. The L1011 could taxi on the ground on it's autopilot, in the 1970's.

Dude how did that work?

Modern day object recognition systems used in self driving cars would require a huge supercomputer in 1970s to achieve similar performance..
 
zuckie13
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:24 pm

Mortyman wrote:
According to the article a large % of passengers are against this Development With pilot-less Aircraft


Do those same passengers know it's basically the same as an automatic landing that many commercial aircraft routinely use today?

The real concern is just making sure that like the automation on landing, we don't get pilots that are so uncomfortable doing things more manually when the have to that they get flustered like the Asiana one in San Francisco a bit back.
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:00 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Very nice, eager to see autonomous RTO.


https://youtu.be/MKtPlj932YY?t=11
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Starfuryt
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:10 pm

It didn't put the gear away on its own :D
 
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zeke
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:12 pm

The main advantage I see for this is a possible way to increase takeoff performance.

Current regulations gave allowances for pilot reaction times, this automatic rotation would provide correct pitch attitude at the correct pitch rate for takeoff.
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ikramerica
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:46 pm

I think the first development will be the relaxing of rules requiring 2 pilots (people) in cockpit at all times. For example, it seems awful redundant that the DL flight to China has 4 pilots aboard considering the level of automation onboard.
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Blockplus
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:56 pm

Nice .. now let’s see it with an engine frag at Vr + 5 with complete electric power loss ex battery.
 
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zeke
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:58 pm

ikramerica wrote:
I think the first development will be the relaxing of rules requiring 2 pilots (people) in cockpit at all times. For example, it seems awful redundant that the DL flight to China has 4 pilots aboard considering the level of automation onboard.


Brilliant idea, automatIon never fails.

Couldn’t even get 3 out of 3 landers onto the moon last year with no weather, no traffic, no ATC with a large ground based mission control monitoring every aspect.

When manned missions achieved that decades ago.
Last edited by zeke on Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ATCtower
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:59 pm

ikramerica wrote:
I think the first development will be the relaxing of rules requiring 2 pilots (people) in cockpit at all times. For example, it seems awful redundant that the DL flight to China has 4 pilots aboard considering the level of automation onboard.


I’m not terribly concerned about going from 4 to 2, but if you want me comfortable going 2 to 1, there needs to be unbelievable automation in the event of incapacitation and a manual ground override, lest we remember German Wings 9525.

A single pilot with ultimate and unchallenged control scares the hell out of me a lot more than a completely autonomous aircraft (as a passenger).
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tomcat
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:38 pm

Before going one day to pilotless aircraft, there is maybe some potential in this vision-based technology to allow less windows in the cockpit or ultimately no window at all. This would save a significant amount of weight as well as some maintenance costs.
 
ikramerica
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:42 pm

zeke wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
I think the first development will be the relaxing of rules requiring 2 pilots (people) in cockpit at all times. For example, it seems awful redundant that the DL flight to China has 4 pilots aboard considering the level of automation onboard.


Brilliant idea, automatIon never fails.

Couldn’t even get 3 out of 3 landers onto the moon last year with no weather, no traffic, no ATC with a large ground based mission control monitoring every aspect.

When manned missions achieved that decades ago.

You fly to the moon often, do you?

From 4 to 3 on some routes, 3 to 2 on others. Pilot alertness sensors similar (but better) than installed on various luxury cars, trains, buses.

It will happen.

Original long haul had 4 in the cockpit. Then technology and automation reduced that to 3. Then to 2. Next will be 2 for critical phases of flight, 1 for the rest.

Edit: and what we’ve seen in a lot of recent accidents, 3 in the cockpit hasn’t helped prevent tragedy.
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flipdewaf
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:50 pm

zeke wrote:
The main advantage I see for this is a possible way to increase takeoff performance.

Current regulations gave allowances for pilot reaction times, this automatic rotation would provide correct pitch attitude at the correct pitch rate for takeoff.


I agree, machines are generally more accurate and predictable at this sort of thing. It’s also likely able to set the aircraft up for the most safe course of action more quickly and dynamically if required. I believe the A220 is able to change the thrust during the TO run, to enable better climb whilst maintaining control at low speed.

This looks a like a good development.

Fred


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airhansa
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:26 pm

With this, the plane company can have one pilot in the flight deck while the other pilot becomes the senior member of the cabin crew or takes on another role as a reserve pilot, or even have a situation where the cabin crew are trained to be a first officer.
 
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:18 pm

airhansa wrote:
With this, the plane company can have one pilot in the flight deck while the other pilot becomes the senior member of the cabin crew or takes on another role as a reserve pilot, or even have a situation where the cabin crew are trained to be a first officer.


What a joke. This will be the day where pilots start looking at getting out of aviation altogether. I didn't become a pilot so I could be a flight attendant. If I wanted to do that then I would have done it. You'll end up with the only people going to pilot school being flight attendants who want to be pilots. Then you will have another pilot shortage.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:30 pm

keesje wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Very nice, eager to see autonomous RTO.


https://youtu.be/MKtPlj932YY?t=11


So no pilot input to keep it on pavement after abort.

On a different note, can systems measure actual weight?
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Starfuryt
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:03 pm

ikramerica wrote:
I think the first development will be the relaxing of rules requiring 2 pilots (people) in cockpit at all times. For example, it seems awful redundant that the DL flight to China has 4 pilots aboard considering the level of automation onboard.


There are plenty of examples of extra people in the cockpit helping during an emergency where the result could've been different with fewer people.
Also AF 447 comes to mind, where the two pilots in the cockpit couldn't figure out what was going on.
 
Airlines0613
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:26 pm

Starfuryt wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
I think the first development will be the relaxing of rules requiring 2 pilots (people) in cockpit at all times. For example, it seems awful redundant that the DL flight to China has 4 pilots aboard considering the level of automation onboard.


There are plenty of examples of extra people in the cockpit helping during an emergency where the result could've been different with fewer people.
Also AF 447 comes to mind, where the two pilots in the cockpit couldn't figure out what was going on.

They couldn’t figure it out because the systems had conflicting readings. Says more about the systems, less about the pilots. Yes, the pilots could have done better, but it also shows computers malfunction.
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:48 am

Airlines0613 wrote:
Starfuryt wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
I think the first development will be the relaxing of rules requiring 2 pilots (people) in cockpit at all times. For example, it seems awful redundant that the DL flight to China has 4 pilots aboard considering the level of automation onboard.


There are plenty of examples of extra people in the cockpit helping during an emergency where the result could've been different with fewer people.
Also AF 447 comes to mind, where the two pilots in the cockpit couldn't figure out what was going on.

They couldn’t figure it out because the systems had conflicting readings. Says more about the systems, less about the pilots. Yes, the pilots could have done better, but it also shows computers malfunction.


The pilot was constantly pulling the stick after disconnecting autopilot, without the other two pilots in the cockpit noticing. Keeping the aircraft in a stall situation. If he had simply fainted, the aircraft would have stabilized it self. A very tragic accident..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
ikramerica
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:01 am

keesje wrote:
Airlines0613 wrote:
Starfuryt wrote:

There are plenty of examples of extra people in the cockpit helping during an emergency where the result could've been different with fewer people.
Also AF 447 comes to mind, where the two pilots in the cockpit couldn't figure out what was going on.

They couldn’t figure it out because the systems had conflicting readings. Says more about the systems, less about the pilots. Yes, the pilots could have done better, but it also shows computers malfunction.


The pilot was constantly pulling the stick after disconnecting autopilot, without the other two pilots in the cockpit noticing. Keeping the aircraft in a stall situation. If he had simply fainted, the aircraft would have stabilized it self. A very tragic accident..

Sad but true. There was also some logical yet confusing logic that made the stall warning stop screaming at you when you either made it better or worse.

I guess the point is one pilot can crash a plane even if 4 others are there as safety backups.

True safety will only come when we have HAL like feedback where you ask the voice “what happened? What’s gone wrong?” And the voice tells you.

Pilot: “What the heck is happening?”
HAL: “We lost data regarding speed. The other pilot is repeatedly pulling back on the stick making your stall worse. Shall I disable his controls?”
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TWA772LR
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:22 am

Humans can barely fly airplanes right, and software still hasn't proven it can fly airplanes right.

Airplanes have made it harder to crash them, but 1 pilot, or a computer softwate issue (solar neutrinos knocking out one bot of info that snowballs into a huge problem), can still crash one. At least 1 pilot can keep the computer from crashing, and another pilot can keep the other pilot from crashing.

I'll continue to have my planes flown by 2 people please.
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keesje
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:33 am

ikramerica wrote:
keesje wrote:
Airlines0613 wrote:
They couldn’t figure it out because the systems had conflicting readings. Says more about the systems, less about the pilots. Yes, the pilots could have done better, but it also shows computers malfunction.


The pilot was constantly pulling the stick after disconnecting autopilot, without the other two pilots in the cockpit noticing. Keeping the aircraft in a stall situation. If he had simply fainted, the aircraft would have stabilized it self. A very tragic accident..

Sad but true. There was also some logical yet confusing logic that made the stall warning stop screaming at you when you either made it better or worse.

I guess the point is one pilot can crash a plane even if 4 others are there as safety backups.

True safety will only come when we have HAL like feedback where you ask the voice “what happened? What’s gone wrong?” And the voice tells you.

Pilot: “What the heck is happening?”
HAL: “We lost data regarding speed. The other pilot is repeatedly pulling back on the stick making your stall worse. Shall I disable his controls?”


I think this is the only accident I know of, that when the aircraft would have had a conventional stearing column, the other 2 pilots might have been able to notice in time what the (experienced) pilot was doing..
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eamondzhang
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:34 pm

ikramerica wrote:
I think the first development will be the relaxing of rules requiring 2 pilots (people) in cockpit at all times. For example, it seems awful redundant that the DL flight to China has 4 pilots aboard considering the level of automation onboard.

Tell me after working 14 hours straight you are not tired at all. Much less on an airplane flying 35,000ft with less oxygen and so forth. And all the time zone differences.

Do you seriously think pilots just sit there and do absolutely nothing??

What a joke.

Michael
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:46 pm

eamondzhang wrote:

Do you seriously think pilots just sit there and do absolutely nothing??

I reckon LCCs play I spy and the legacies do the crossword....



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TheDutchman92
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:53 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Doesn't solve any of the problems with pilotless flight. The L1011 could taxi on the ground on it's autopilot, in the 1970's.
The Tristar could do a full CAT III (c) blind auto land (and rollout?) if I'm not mistaken but couldn't taxi itself.

Back then very few airports even had the CAT III capabilities to facilitate these ops let alone the ability to auto taxi which would be very complex with radio waves and will only now become feasible with gps based GBAS.

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morrisond
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:13 pm

Automatic takeoffs are neat - but Autoland is a lot more impressive and what will probably lead to reduced manning in the cockpit or kick in when it detects the pilots aren't paying attention as they are focusing too closely on the crossword.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyYxbiZ1FCQ
 
mxaxai
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:18 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
I think the first development will be the relaxing of rules requiring 2 pilots (people) in cockpit at all times. For example, it seems awful redundant that the DL flight to China has 4 pilots aboard considering the level of automation onboard.

Tell me after working 14 hours straight you are not tired at all. Much less on an airplane flying 35,000ft with less oxygen and so forth. And all the time zone differences.

Do you seriously think pilots just sit there and do absolutely nothing??

What a joke.

Michael

Rather than a full backup crew on board, you could have 2 crew members in the cockpit during take off and landing only. Then one of them goes to a rest area for a couple of hours while the other one monitors the system, after a few hours they switch. So for the landing there would be one well rested pilot and the second has been working <8 hours since his last rest.
 
n6238p
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:12 pm

For a website that is so pro aviation, there sure are a lot of people that have no idea what the actual role of a pilot is and what goes on in the cockpit gate to gate.
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BravoOne
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:23 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Doesn't solve any of the problems with pilotless flight. The L1011 could taxi on the ground on it's autopilot, in the 1970's.



In all my time flying the L1011 I have never heard of that. Do you have a point of reference?
 
airhansa
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:30 pm

spudsmac wrote:
airhansa wrote:
With this, the plane company can have one pilot in the flight deck while the other pilot becomes the senior member of the cabin crew or takes on another role as a reserve pilot, or even have a situation where the cabin crew are trained to be a first officer.


What a joke. This will be the day where pilots start looking at getting out of aviation altogether. I didn't become a pilot so I could be a flight attendant. If I wanted to do that then I would have done it. You'll end up with the only people going to pilot school being flight attendants who want to be pilots. Then you will have another pilot shortage.


What I had in mind was that a flight could have one pilot in the flight deck, one pilot in cabin as reserve and one flight attendant trained to be a first officer at most. The flight attendant comes into the flight deck to assist the pilot when there's something wrong with the autopilot. The reserve pilot is to swap shifts or when something wrong with the active pilot but mostly acts as a cabin passenger.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:39 pm

n6238p wrote:
For a website that is so pro aviation, there sure are a lot of people that have no idea what the actual role of a pilot is and what goes on in the cockpit gate to gate.


Because a large segment of the people think simming and riding in coach means they know as much as the pilots.
 
ikramerica
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:22 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
I think the first development will be the relaxing of rules requiring 2 pilots (people) in cockpit at all times. For example, it seems awful redundant that the DL flight to China has 4 pilots aboard considering the level of automation onboard.

Tell me after working 14 hours straight you are not tired at all. Much less on an airplane flying 35,000ft with less oxygen and so forth. And all the time zone differences.

Do you seriously think pilots just sit there and do absolutely nothing??

What a joke.

Michael

Nobody is making any of those arguments but you. Nobody is allowed to work 14 hours.
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ikramerica
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:50 pm

mxaxai wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
I think the first development will be the relaxing of rules requiring 2 pilots (people) in cockpit at all times. For example, it seems awful redundant that the DL flight to China has 4 pilots aboard considering the level of automation onboard.

Tell me after working 14 hours straight you are not tired at all. Much less on an airplane flying 35,000ft with less oxygen and so forth. And all the time zone differences.

Do you seriously think pilots just sit there and do absolutely nothing??

What a joke.

Michael

Rather than a full backup crew on board, you could have 2 crew members in the cockpit during take off and landing only. Then one of them goes to a rest area for a couple of hours while the other one monitors the system, after a few hours they switch. So for the landing there would be one well rested pilot and the second has been working <8 hours since his last rest.

Exactly.

On a 10 hour flight there would be an opportunity for each pilot to take a 3hr break. Obviously once you get to 12 hours you would want a 3rd. But considering the cost of long haul pilots and the claimed shortage of pilots this kind of economy will come eventually.
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keesje
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:30 am

This technology steering the aircraft over the runway has been in automotive for years. Probably in the future we will require pilots to do at least 5% of take-offs themselves to keep the skills / redundancy, like autoland. I think I can mostly feel if it was a manual landing, less smooth.
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zeke
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:51 am

ikramerica wrote:
On a 10 hour flight there would be an opportunity for each pilot to take a 3hr break. Obviously once you get to 12 hours you would want a 3rd. But considering the cost of long haul pilots and the claimed shortage of pilots this kind of economy will come eventually.


I have no idea how testing automatic takeoff technology has anything to do with reducing the number of crew in an aircraft in a long haul flight. You have obviously got an axe to grind here over pilots on multiple threads, can you take it to non av where you can start your own topic on the subject. This has zip to do with automatic takeoffs.
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a320fan
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:55 am

keesje wrote:
This technology steering the aircraft over the runway has been in automotive for years. Probably in the future we will require pilots to do at least 5% of take-offs themselves to keep the skills / redundancy, like autoland. I think I can mostly feel if it was a manual landing, less smooth.

90% of landings at least would be manual, most runways around the world aren’t even correctly equipped for autolands. It’s only realistically used in extreme low visibility or the very rare occasion it might be needed for currency. In fact most pilots will tell you autolands are noticeably more firm than what they mostly do ‘manually’.

I think this technology we are seeing here is the infancy of vision based AI autolands that will allow automation to take over landings on more runways where the complicated CAT3 ILS systems are not installed. How the progress of such a landing can be monitored by the crew in Zero vis I’m not sure, and whether It is a more likely future outcome over GPS based autolands or something that can be used in conjunction with.
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KFLLCFII
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:57 am

Autotakeoff...For when the crew becomes incapacitated on taxi-out.
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airzona11
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Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:40 pm

zeke wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
On a 10 hour flight there would be an opportunity for each pilot to take a 3hr break. Obviously once you get to 12 hours you would want a 3rd. But considering the cost of long haul pilots and the claimed shortage of pilots this kind of economy will come eventually.


I have no idea how testing automatic takeoff technology has anything to do with reducing the number of crew in an aircraft in a long haul flight. You have obviously got an axe to grind here over pilots on multiple threads, can you take it to non av where you can start your own topic on the subject. This has zip to do with automatic takeoffs.


More tools, more automation, more software advancement. It all adds up. Doesn’t seem too far fetched that these development will lead to a reduction in the need for # of pilots available. I have to imagine when cockpits went from 3 to 2 for instance, in the lead up there was a “are you kidding me?” type of conversation. Maybe it’s not tomorrow but it’s not a draconian “let’s outsource all the pilots” either. Pilots are pivotal helping Airbus, airlines, technology companies, etc develop the advancements.

One area I think sooner than later this will impact is type ratings. The more software and automation that goes across fleet types, the less burden needed to be type certified. Fly anA350 today and 787 tomorrow. That would be huge for airlines and economics. But it will come in iterative steps and the time to be familiarized will come down.
 
WIederling
Posts: 9431
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:19 pm

keesje wrote:
Airlines0613 wrote:
Starfuryt wrote:

There are plenty of examples of extra people in the cockpit helping during an emergency where the result could've been different with fewer people.
Also AF 447 comes to mind, where the two pilots in the cockpit couldn't figure out what was going on.

They couldn’t figure it out because the systems had conflicting readings. Says more about the systems, less about the pilots. Yes, the pilots could have done better, but it also shows computers malfunction.


The pilot was constantly pulling the stick after disconnecting autopilot, without the other two pilots in the cockpit noticing. Keeping the aircraft in a stall situation. If he had simply fainted, the aircraft would have stabilized it self. A very tragic accident..


I am flabbergasted that people are so steadfast in their wrong narrative.

* There was no computer failure.

* From the FBW side everything went as designed. ( FBW law degradation due to loss of pitot.)

After Autopilot disconnect due to frozen pitots detected the pilot pulled long enough to take out near all speed and into a stall.
After that there was no "continuously pulling the stick" except for the last seconds.
Same for Dual Input.
The C-Note Warning provided for some elevator music.

See the BEA report:
https://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp09 ... 601.en.pdf

The logic inversion of the stall warning by way of speed being lower than min speeds for valid AoA data are a problem.
Though I don't see a good simple solution there.
Beginning with limited understanding of information provided, adding that inversion helped towards not recovering.
Murphy is an optimist
 
airbazar
Posts: 10197
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:41 pm

There will always be pilots in the foreseeable future. They just won't be onboard the plane. Instead they'll be sitting in a control room somewhere, monitoring the plane's systems and flying the plane remotely :)
 
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keesje
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:27 pm

Related, did you see the new Gramin emergency autoland system. I saw it a few months ago, impressive.

If you feel unwell, you hit the button, the aircraft levels, looks around for the nearest airport, other aircraft, contacts the tower and lands the aircraft.

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ruFmgTpqA

Together with rapidly developping drone remote technology, we see the pilots role increasingly being "supported"
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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zeke
Posts: 15279
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:40 pm

airzona11 wrote:
More tools, more automation, more software advancement. It all adds up. Doesn’t seem too far fetched that these development will lead to a reduction in the need for # of pilots available. I have to imagine when cockpits went from 3 to 2 for instance, in the lead up there was a “are you kidding me?” type of conversation. Maybe it’s not tomorrow but it’s not a draconian “let’s outsource all the pilots” either. Pilots are pivotal helping Airbus, airlines, technology companies, etc develop the advancements.

One area I think sooner than later this will impact is type ratings. The more software and automation that goes across fleet types, the less burden needed to be type certified. Fly anA350 today and 787 tomorrow. That would be huge for airlines and economics. But it will come in iterative steps and the time to be familiarized will come down.


There hasn’t been a reduction in pilots from 3 to 2, aircraft like the 747 classic had 2 pilots and a flight engineer. There used to be crews of 6, a radio operator, navigator, flight engineer, and pilots. The automation has replaced the radio operator, navigator, and flight engineer.

A lot of the type rating deals with issues when the aircraft is not 100% perfect, I can see the requirements for automatic take would be still to demonstrate a takeoff with it disabled, like TAC on the 777.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
n6238p
Posts: 438
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:35 am

Re: Airbus releases photos of automatic takeoffs

Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:38 am

Control towers close, control towers don't issue approach clearances, not every runway is CATIII equipped, pilots get fatigued even on a 6 hour transcon, sometimes a plane has to fly the expressway visual into LGA, sometimes it has to do a procedure turn on a VOR approach in mountainous terrain. Sometimes crossing traffic keeps a heavy high and now it's being slam dunked on final well above the glide slope. Did you know landing on runway 18R into MCO or 01L, two of the busiest runways for arrivals into each airport requires a glide slope from above because of Orlando Executive and McChord airports? My plane has a 15kt crosswind limitation for autoland. If the wind is 16kts, do you want to divert to Milwaukee?

But since we got proof of auto takeoffs, something that yes is a part of aircraft development evolution, we're talking about pilotless planes are ready soon? It's still decades away.
To actively root against anybody is just low, and I hope karma comes back at you with a vengeance

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