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Williamsb747
Topic Author
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DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:01 am

Hey.

N702DN flying DL201 was canceled, anybody know what happened. Maintenance maybe???


Williams-
B747>A340>A350>B777>MD11>B767>B757>MD88/90>B787>A380>A330>A220>A320>B737.
CPT JNB
 
OB1504
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:43 am

Same airplane that was in MIA on Saturday and had mechanics working on the engine.
 
777Mech
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:09 pm

OB1504 wrote:
Same airplane that was in MIA on Saturday and had mechanics working on the engine.


You're implying that they diverted to MIA for MX, and you'd be wrong. You had your answer in the other thread you made.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:25 pm

Any of these birds just returned from maintenance.
All posts are just opinions.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:08 pm

777Mech wrote:
You're implying that they diverted to MIA for MX, and you'd be wrong. You had your answer in the other thread you made.


Actually there wasn't a definitive answer in that thread, only a few educated guesses. You even participated in that thread and didn't weigh in on why it flew to MIA instead.

Considering the operational issues 7102 has had the past few days, it's a fair question if something is wrong.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:41 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
777Mech wrote:
You're implying that they diverted to MIA for MX, and you'd be wrong. You had your answer in the other thread you made.


Actually there wasn't a definitive answer in that thread, only a few educated guesses. You even participated in that thread and didn't weigh in on why it flew to MIA instead.

Considering the operational issues 7102 has had the past few days, it's a fair question if something is wrong.


I don’t know why it flew to MIA but the facts that they filed a flight plan to MIA before leaving JNB and that it was only on the ground for about an hour and a half pretty well answer the question, no?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
bkflyguy
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:23 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
777Mech wrote:
You're implying that they diverted to MIA for MX, and you'd be wrong. You had your answer in the other thread you made.


Actually there wasn't a definitive answer in that thread, only a few educated guesses. You even participated in that thread and didn't weigh in on why it flew to MIA instead.

Considering the operational issues 7102 has had the past few days, it's a fair question if something is wrong.


I don’t know why it flew to MIA but the facts that they filed a flight plan to MIA before leaving JNB and that it was only on the ground for about an hour and a half pretty well answer the question, no?


Scheduled fuel stop due to strong headwinds.
 
jakeroberts212
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:58 pm

Williamsb747 wrote:
Hey.

N702DN flying DL201 was canceled, anybody know what happened. Maintenance maybe???


Williams-


Curious to know myself. Between the LAS-CDG 772 that diverted to BOS for mx last week, the 77L LAX-PVG engine/fuel dumping issue last week and now this, something is amiss with DL's 777 maintenance. They don't have many of them, so 3 separate instances in a week span is a lot.
 
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airportugal310
Posts: 3631
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:05 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
Williamsb747 wrote:
Hey.

N702DN flying DL201 was canceled, anybody know what happened. Maintenance maybe???


Williams-


Curious to know myself. Between the LAS-CDG 772 that diverted to BOS for mx last week, the 77L LAX-PVG engine/fuel dumping issue last week and now this, something is amiss with DL's 777 maintenance. They don't have many of them, so 3 separate instances in a week span is a lot.


They are machines, and machines have many parts on them that can fail...but ya, let's jump to conclusions :roll:
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
OB1504
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:06 pm

777Mech wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Same airplane that was in MIA on Saturday and had mechanics working on the engine.


You're implying that they diverted to MIA for MX, and you'd be wrong. You had your answer in the other thread you made.


Then what were the mechanics doing working on the engine for over half an hour?
 
jakeroberts212
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:15 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:
Williamsb747 wrote:
Hey.

N702DN flying DL201 was canceled, anybody know what happened. Maintenance maybe???


Williams-


Curious to know myself. Between the LAS-CDG 772 that diverted to BOS for mx last week, the 77L LAX-PVG engine/fuel dumping issue last week and now this, something is amiss with DL's 777 maintenance. They don't have many of them, so 3 separate instances in a week span is a lot.


They are machines, and machines have many parts on them that can fail...but ya, let's jump to conclusions :roll:


Airplanes are built to fly, not be hangar queens. DL is a for profit organization last I checked. Cancelling flights doesn't make DL money. Sorry I call it like I see it and offended your love for a company you deem infallible. It doesn't take a conclusion to realize something is amiss when 3 separate 777's go mx in a span of a few days at the same airline.
 
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zeke
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:29 pm

Over the last 7 days this is what the average headwind component and flight time for this route on a 77L plans

14th 24 kts HW 15:14
15th 19 kts HW 15:06
16th 27 kts HW 15:15
17th 37 kts HW 15:34
18th 44 kts HW 15:53
19th 37 kts HW 15:30
20th 30 kts HW 15:18

Keep in mind JNB is a "hot and high" airport so the fuel load maybe dictated by the TOW that can be achieved on the day with the prevailing conditions.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
jakeroberts212
Posts: 42
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:42 pm

zeke wrote:
Over the last 7 days this is what the average headwind component and flight time for this route on a 77L plans

14th 24 kts HW 15:14
15th 19 kts HW 15:06
16th 27 kts HW 15:15
17th 37 kts HW 15:34
18th 44 kts HW 15:53
19th 37 kts HW 15:30
20th 30 kts HW 15:18

Keep in mind JNB is a "hot and high" airport so the fuel load maybe dictated by the TOW that can be achieved on the day with the prevailing conditions.


Except JNB’s weather has been anything but hot lately. Yesterday it was 75*F and the same the days before. They should have no problem taking off with appropriate fuel at that temp
 
ZEDZAG
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:54 pm

zeke wrote:

Keep in mind JNB is a "hot and high" airport so the fuel load maybe dictated by the TOW that can be achieved on the day with the prevailing conditions.


Could you estimate the average TOW for DEC out of JNB for 77L? Same for 359?
 
jakeroberts212
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:15 pm

ZEDZAG wrote:
zeke wrote:

Keep in mind JNB is a "hot and high" airport so the fuel load maybe dictated by the TOW that can be achieved on the day with the prevailing conditions.


Could you estimate the average TOW for DEC out of JNB for 77L? Same for 359?


It’s January now, not December
 
evanb
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:24 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
Except JNB’s weather has been anything but hot lately. Yesterday it was 75*F and the same the days before. They should have no problem taking off with appropriate fuel at that temp


Sure, but that is plenty hot at that altitude with winds like that. On 18 January, the day with the strongest headwind component, the actual flight time was a whopping 16 hours and 57 minutes!
 
777Mech
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:47 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
777Mech wrote:
You're implying that they diverted to MIA for MX, and you'd be wrong. You had your answer in the other thread you made.


Actually there wasn't a definitive answer in that thread, only a few educated guesses. You even participated in that thread and didn't weigh in on why it flew to MIA instead.

Considering the operational issues 7102 has had the past few days, it's a fair question if something is wrong.


So they filed to MIA before even leaving JNB anticipating a maintenance issue? Right.

They stopped to carry a full payload out of JNB, because headwinds are a thing you know.

The answer was already in the thread when I participated.
 
777Mech
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:51 pm

OB1504 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Same airplane that was in MIA on Saturday and had mechanics working on the engine.


You're implying that they diverted to MIA for MX, and you'd be wrong. You had your answer in the other thread you made.


Then what were the mechanics doing working on the engine for over half an hour?


Only a half an hour? That's nothing. After that long of a flight, probably adding oil. They were on the ground for only 2 hours.
 
x1234
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:59 pm

Anyone here have any stats on if the B789 of UA can lift payload out of the hot & high JNB better than the DL 77L? BTW UA's *A partner just started JNB-JFK on the A350 today (still 2-2-2 business class seats from ex-Hainan plane).
 
evanb
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:21 pm

x1234 wrote:
Anyone here have any stats on if the B789 of UA can lift payload out of the hot & high JNB better than the DL 77L? BTW UA's *A partner just started JNB-JFK on the A350 today (still 2-2-2 business class seats from ex-Hainan plane).


Very, very rough. For good measure, I included A359:

Standard day:
B77L RTOW 330t MTOW 347t
B789 RTOW 240t MTOW 254t
A359 RTOW 275t MTOW 280t

Standard +15C:
B77L RTOW 320t MTOW 347t
B789 RTOW 233t MTOW 254t
A359 RTOW 270t MTOW 280t
 
Motorhussy
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:34 pm

evanb wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Anyone here have any stats on if the B789 of UA can lift payload out of the hot & high JNB better than the DL 77L? BTW UA's *A partner just started JNB-JFK on the A350 today (still 2-2-2 business class seats from ex-Hainan plane).


Very, very rough. For good measure, I included A359:

Standard day:
B77L RTOW 330t MTOW 347t
B789 RTOW 240t MTOW 254t
A359 RTOW 275t MTOW 280t

Standard +15C:
B77L RTOW 320t MTOW 347t
B789 RTOW 233t MTOW 254t
A359 RTOW 270t MTOW 280t


So the 789 is significantly behind the 77L in hot/high long range performance, and behind the A359 too.
come visit the south pacific
 
WayexTDI
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:47 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
zeke wrote:
Over the last 7 days this is what the average headwind component and flight time for this route on a 77L plans

14th 24 kts HW 15:14
15th 19 kts HW 15:06
16th 27 kts HW 15:15
17th 37 kts HW 15:34
18th 44 kts HW 15:53
19th 37 kts HW 15:30
20th 30 kts HW 15:18

Keep in mind JNB is a "hot and high" airport so the fuel load maybe dictated by the TOW that can be achieved on the day with the prevailing conditions.


Except JNB’s weather has been anything but hot lately. Yesterday it was 75*F and the same the days before. They should have no problem taking off with appropriate fuel at that temp

You sure seem to have an ax to grind when we see your contribution to this thread.
Yesterday was 1/19, max temp of 80F.
1/18: max temp of 72F
1/17: max temp of 86F
1/16: max temp of 84F
1/15: max temp of 83F
1/14: max temp of 82F
1/13: max temp of 82F
Source: weather.com.
Even if it's not the temperature exactly at the airport (not sure where it's recorded at), the general Johannesburg area was well above 75F.
 
IADCA
Posts: 2160
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:52 pm

Motorhussy wrote:
evanb wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Anyone here have any stats on if the B789 of UA can lift payload out of the hot & high JNB better than the DL 77L? BTW UA's *A partner just started JNB-JFK on the A350 today (still 2-2-2 business class seats from ex-Hainan plane).


Very, very rough. For good measure, I included A359:

Standard day:
B77L RTOW 330t MTOW 347t
B789 RTOW 240t MTOW 254t
A359 RTOW 275t MTOW 280t

Standard +15C:
B77L RTOW 320t MTOW 347t
B789 RTOW 233t MTOW 254t
A359 RTOW 270t MTOW 280t


So the 789 is significantly behind the 77L in hot/high long range performance, and behind the A359 too.


That's not really surprising considering it has less range at sea level, significantly smaller wings, and less thrust than the other two planes.
 
TW870
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:36 pm

This thread is typical of the internet. A few good pieces of information with lots of nauseating conspiracy theory floating around in the background.

So we have a Miami fuel stop, followed by a cancellation in JNB, presumably for maintenance. Airplane is currently a few hundred miles due south of Abidjan, 5 hours and 22 minutes into its ferry flight back to ATL. Very windy again, and blocked at 17 hours and 18 minutes tonight. Headed to LAX then after 12 hours on the ground to position to operate SYD. Aircraft not scheduled to be out of service. This pretty much seems like typical long haul flying to me. Read the widebody thread. You can see DL cancellations every day!
 
FedexL1011
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:22 am

The flight stubbed to the next day because of aircraft damage, so I don’t think we need to go around labeling the Delta 777 fleet as defective. I hardly call an air return due to an engine surge and a planned stop at departure to MIA for no more than 2 hours a reason to be saying something is wrong. I have seen instances where Delta will have flights flag stop in Seattle for fuel and crew change and then leave in approximately the same amount of time, no bags, cargo or passengers are off loaded and maintenance is working on normal post flight procedures, such as adding oil and lubricants to the engine, inspecting lights, gear, and other things. While the incident on LAS-CDG is notable, I would say that a few isolated issues within a few weeks is nothing for aircraft that are almost 10-15 years old. I’m sure if you had a 10-15 year old car it would have it’s fits every so often..
712,722,732,733,735,737,738,739,744,752,753,763,764,772,319,320,321,21N,332,333,DH8,CRJ2,CRJ7,CRJ9,E175,E145,M88,M90
 
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airportugal310
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Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:28 am

jakeroberts212 wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:

Curious to know myself. Between the LAS-CDG 772 that diverted to BOS for mx last week, the 77L LAX-PVG engine/fuel dumping issue last week and now this, something is amiss with DL's 777 maintenance. They don't have many of them, so 3 separate instances in a week span is a lot.


They are machines, and machines have many parts on them that can fail...but ya, let's jump to conclusions :roll:


Airplanes are built to fly, not be hangar queens. DL is a for profit organization last I checked. Cancelling flights doesn't make DL money. Sorry I call it like I see it and offended your love for a company you deem infallible. It doesn't take a conclusion to realize something is amiss when 3 separate 777's go mx in a span of a few days at the same airline.


"Love for an airline I deem infallible"? What?

Some of us on these forums DO actually work in aircraft maintenance shops for major airlines and *GASP!* actually have a concept of what goes in to keeping a fleet flying. My guess is that you know better, though...
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
evanb
Posts: 908
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:34 am

MSPNWA wrote:
JNB-ATL leaves late in the day, so listing the high temperature isn't an accurate depiction of what it is at takeoff. Even 75 Fahrenheit is likely overstating it based on the late day temp data for the past few days.


Indeed, it's certainly leaves on the later side, but the departure time is also based on optimal timing into Atlanta rather than just temperature.

What people seem to forget that it isn't just about the temperature, but an interaction between a number of factors including temperate, JNB's altitude of more than 5,700ft AMSL, prevailing winds across the Atlantic and the GC distance of 7,333 nm. When you take all these together the flight planning becomes very sensitive to even small increases in temperature and winds. For example, over the last few months the flight time has varied between 15:20 and 16:57. That's quite a substantial difference. JNB-JFK has even bigger variations, 13:27 and 16:23, a three hour difference!
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3670
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:39 am

IADCA wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
evanb wrote:

Very, very rough. For good measure, I included A359:

Standard day:
B77L RTOW 330t MTOW 347t
B789 RTOW 240t MTOW 254t
A359 RTOW 275t MTOW 280t

Standard +15C:
B77L RTOW 320t MTOW 347t
B789 RTOW 233t MTOW 254t
A359 RTOW 270t MTOW 280t


So the 789 is significantly behind the 77L in hot/high long range performance, and behind the A359 too.


That's not really surprising considering it has less range at sea level, significantly smaller wings, and less thrust than the other two planes.


Indeed, but there are still those on here who will believe the earth is flat, that vaccinations are a conspiracy, climate change is a hoax and the 789 has better range/payload performance than the A359.
come visit the south pacific
 
dampfnudel
Posts: 584
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:42 am

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:45 am

jakeroberts212 wrote:
Williamsb747 wrote:
Hey.

N702DN flying DL201 was canceled, anybody know what happened. Maintenance maybe???


Williams-


Curious to know myself. Between the LAS-CDG 772 that diverted to BOS for mx last week, the 77L LAX-PVG engine/fuel dumping issue last week and now this, something is amiss with DL's 777 maintenance. They don't have many of them, so 3 separate instances in a week span is a lot.

Based on DL’s stellar maintenance, I think it’s more likely just a coincidence.
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8803
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:35 am

jakeroberts212 wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:

Curious to know myself. Between the LAS-CDG 772 that diverted to BOS for mx last week, the 77L LAX-PVG engine/fuel dumping issue last week and now this, something is amiss with DL's 777 maintenance. They don't have many of them, so 3 separate instances in a week span is a lot.


They are machines, and machines have many parts on them that can fail...but ya, let's jump to conclusions :roll:


Airplanes are built to fly, not be hangar queens. DL is a for profit organization last I checked. Cancelling flights doesn't make DL money. Sorry I call it like I see it and offended your love for a company you deem infallible. It doesn't take a conclusion to realize something is amiss when 3 separate 777's go mx in a span of a few days at the same airline.


One can "call it like [one] see[s] it" all one wants, but if one wants others to agree, one needs to have more than just some random opinion.

Respectfully, I think you are trying to draw conclusions from far too few data points, especially when you don't know what the service difficulty actually was, if there even was one. Delta (and any other major) is going to have constant, proactive, sophisticated automated surveillance of actual issues written up, looking for patterns. They're gonna know far faster and more accurately than any conclusions that an outside observer can draw. So let's be grown-up about this and give DL some credit for operating a world-class maintenance organization and a complex fleet of transport-category aircraft. Are they flawless? Of course not. Is it essential that any organization like a Delta evaluate and reevaluate decisions made along the way to see how they are working out? Of course.

But the amount of data we have here isn't sufficient to draw any valid conclusions about anything.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1426
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:51 pm

From another website, a now deleted post said that a pilot came down sick on layover in SYD. Therefore, they only had three pilots, and they need 4 to fly SYD-LAX, so they flew some pilots to HNL and did a crew change there. That explains the SYD-HNL-LAX.

The JNB-MIA stop was fairly well explained up thread. It was planned due to a combination of headwinds and the performance problems caused by the JNB field elevation and high temps. Perhaps they could have left a bunch of passengers behind, but they chose to stop instead and carry more/all of the people. A planned stop on a flight this long necessitates a crew change. We have one report that an engine cowling was opened, but it can't have been too big of an issue because the time on the ground in MIA wasn't excessive.

The cancel and operation the next day on the other JNB-ATL was due to a gate return for a mechanical. A friend told me that they were going to board an MEL and go, but while they were doing that, they noticed a tire going flat. Upon inspection, they found that a piece of FOD was in the tire, a bolt actually. They had taxiied over a bolt on the ground return. By the time the tire was changed, the crew had timed out. There is very little crew time to play with on the ULH flights.

So really, no controversy.
Last edited by SteelChair on Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
andz
Posts: 7696
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:01 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
It’s January now, not December


February is usually the hottest month so harder times are coming.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4905
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:38 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
Williamsb747 wrote:
Hey.

N702DN flying DL201 was canceled, anybody know what happened. Maintenance maybe???


Williams-


Curious to know myself. Between the LAS-CDG 772 that diverted to BOS for mx last week, the 77L LAX-PVG engine/fuel dumping issue last week and now this, something is amiss with DL's 777 maintenance. They don't have many of them, so 3 separate instances in a week span is a lot.



There's nothing wrong with DL's Maintenance. Any Airline that flies 500+ airplanes is going to have multiple breakdowns in any given week. Many are not covered by the media and some are, Many times you might see airplanes sitting on the ramp at delta hangars, or United Hangars, or American Hangars. and you wouldn't know if they were out of service or ready to go.. you might look across the runway at SFO and see 777's lined up wingtip to wingtip at the Super Bay Hangar and you'd never know which is broke and which is ready to go.
Years ago we used to open an engine cowl just to fool the ramp guys into pulling off an airplane we might take a maintenance delay on to load and service other airplanes as we had a pretty over eager ops manager who thought he could make a living blaming Maintenance for every lousy delay. After about 50 delays for ops and ramp he started ASKING whether an airplane had a problem he should be concerned about. Then we worked together to settle any issue we had. So? Whether Delta has a problem or a Number of problems in any given week? It's pretty much the luck of the draw for that week and NOT indicative of their Maintenance prowess. you just noted the few airplanes they had problems with and not the other 10,000 flights hey flew that week without any problems. I'll bet you Delta's maintenance reliability index is well above 98% on any given day. heck! when I was working? we celebrated a week with 100% reliability for that week with Pizza and treats. some of the managers like to went Broke celebrating though they expensed the Pizza and sandwiches (usually Subs) Heck! ANY airline can have a bad week. and those that don't? Are Lieing about it!!
Make Book on that!
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4905
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:55 pm

x1234 wrote:
Anyone here have any stats on if the B789 of UA can lift payload out of the hot & high JNB better than the DL 77L? BTW UA's *A partner just started JNB-JFK on the A350 today (still 2-2-2 business class seats from ex-Hainan plane).

No 787 is going to lift any payload out of JNB better than a 777, the 787 will fly further and climb higher sooner than a 777 without a doubt But that's because the engines are not delivering Bleed to the AC & Pressurization systems, so instead of power decreasing with altitude? the engines are going Balls to the wall to top of climb and getting to cruise and down the road faster. that's why I believe we'll see more and larger Non Engine Bleed airplanes in the future with the Air conditioning and pressurization systems driven electrically rather than pneumatically, #1? It will preserve engine performance longer.. #2? it places all the air conditioning and pressurization systems in the same Local area and make them easier to inspect and service.. We're going to see New Architecture in aircraft systems from Boeing and Airbus in coming years. (Boeing just did it first!)
 
evanb
Posts: 908
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:00 pm

andz wrote:
February is usually the hottest month so harder times are coming.


I know these data are rather out-of-date, but by no measure is February the hottest month. It's certainly hot and likely to have some particularly hot days that will be challenging, but generally not hotter than January, and not hotter than December by all measures.

https://worldweather.wmo.int/en/city.html?cityId=139
 
mcg
Posts: 1075
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

Re: DL772 stuck in JNB

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:01 am

wjcandee wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:

They are machines, and machines have many parts on them that can fail...but ya, let's jump to conclusions :roll:


Airplanes are built to fly, not be hangar queens. DL is a for profit organization last I checked. Cancelling flights doesn't make DL money. Sorry I call it like I see it and offended your love for a company you deem infallible. It doesn't take a conclusion to realize something is amiss when 3 separate 777's go mx in a span of a few days at the same airline.


One can "call it like [one] see[s] it" all one wants, but if one wants others to agree, one needs to have more than just some random opinion.

Respectfully, I think you are trying to draw conclusions from far too few data points, especially when you don't know what the service difficulty actually was, if there even was one. Delta (and any other major) is going to have constant, proactive, sophisticated automated surveillance of actual issues written up, looking for patterns. They're gonna know far faster and more accurately than any conclusions that an outside observer can draw. So let's be grown-up about this and give DL some credit for operating a world-class maintenance organization and a complex fleet of transport-category aircraft. Are they flawless? Of course not. Is it essential that any organization like a Delta evaluate and reevaluate decisions made along the way to see how they are working out? Of course.

But the amount of data we have here isn't sufficient to draw any valid conclusions about anything.


Isn't drawing conclusions without data the essence of a.net?

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