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Mortyman
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Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:05 am

Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

The airline SAS is working to establish a new low cost airline, writes Swedish Dagens Nyheter. The newspaper refers to an internal letter to which they have been given access. Even before Christmas, it came to light that SAS considers this.



According to the article, It will remain within SAS, but production costs will be lower, with cheaper tariff agreements and lower wages.

The newspaper reports that SAS also wants to reduce the number of aircraft in its fleet in the coming years

Article in Norwegian language below:

https://finansavisen.no/nyheter/luftfar ... flyselskap



Well, well ... I am wondering what Scandinavian unions will say about this development ....
 
dampfnudel
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:13 am

Something they probably wouldn’t be doing if DY didn’t exist.
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
 
Someone83
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:20 am

Wouldn't really called in a new airline. It is more like a new production company, with lower cost, in able to operate "A220 sized" jets
 
a350lover
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:35 am

Didn't they accomplish that via the LHR and AGP bases which are under the Irish AOC?
 
skipness1E
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:38 am

This was begun with SAIL, SAS (Ireland) where nine new A320NEOs were registered in Ireland and not flown by SAS crew.
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:36 am

Snowflake Mk2?
 
Zaf
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:10 am

LuxuryTravelled wrote:
Snowflake Mk2?

or Blue2
 
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SASViking
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:15 pm

This was first mentioned in SAS' Interim Report-Presentation Q4 2019 (from early December 2019): https://www.sasgroup.net/en/strong-four ... -earnings/
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
jhz94
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:31 pm

And the race towards the bottom when it comes to undermining the social rights in Scandinavia is on yet another time...
Did you know that you can run diesel cars on Jet A1?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:37 pm

So who does SAS belong to? Denmark, Norway, Sweden? Aren't each of these countries rich enough to own their own airline as opposed to a common carrier?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:43 pm

edealinfo wrote:
So who does SAS belong to? Denmark, Norway, Sweden? Aren't each of these countries rich enough to own their own airline as opposed to a common carrier?


Answering my own question. SAS used to be owned by all the 3 listed countries. However, per Wikipedia, " On 27 June 2018, the Norwegian government announced that it had sold all its shares in SAS."

I still don't understand why Sweden and Denmark don't have their own airline. They are rich and, among other things culturally, even have their own language.

What's even bizarre is that "Norwegian" Air Lines is an "IRISH" low cost carrier, so technically, Norway, doesn't own any airline. Why????
 
Dominion301
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:47 pm

Zaf wrote:
LuxuryTravelled wrote:
Snowflake Mk2?

or Blue2


How about they follow the theme of their Star Alliance partner AC. Air Canada Rouge to SAS Bleu?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:54 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Zaf wrote:
LuxuryTravelled wrote:
Snowflake Mk2?

or Blue2


How about they follow the theme of their Star Alliance partner AC. Air Canada Rouge to SAS Bleu?


Aren't the Nordic countries, in line with their sound liberal values, also into the green movement? If so, it could be SAS Green, ha ha.

The more people you squeeze into a lower cost flight, the lower CO2 emissions per passenger. So, it fits with the theme, at least.
 
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SASViking
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:02 pm

edealinfo wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
So who does SAS belong to? Denmark, Norway, Sweden? Aren't each of these countries rich enough to own their own airline as opposed to a common carrier?


Answering my own question. SAS used to be owned by all the 3 listed countries. However, per Wikipedia, " On 27 June 2018, the Norwegian government announced that it had sold all its shares in SAS."

I still don't understand why Sweden and Denmark don't have their own airline. They are rich and, among other things culturally, even have their own language.

What's even bizarre is that "Norwegian" Air Lines is an "IRISH" low cost carrier, so technically, Norway, doesn't own any airline. Why????

SAS used to be three different airlines, one Norwegian, one Swedish and one Danish. They then merged back in 1946, only for longhaul flights while the shorthauls remained operated by the three national airlines for some time.
The idea was/is that one strong big airline was better than three small. It's not that much different from LH/OS/LX now who are all owned by the same. I seriously doubt that any state-owned individual airline from Denmark, Sweden or Norway would survive for long. There's to much competition.
However until a few years ago, SAS was actually three different airlines "SAS Denmark", "SAS Sweden" and "SAS Norway" all owned by SAS Group but still operating independently (sort of).
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
VSMUT
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:15 pm

edealinfo wrote:
I still don't understand why Sweden and Denmark don't have their own airline. They are rich and, among other things culturally, even have their own language.


We might be rich, but we aren't shy about buying our tickets with non-local airlines. By pooling resources, SAS gains coverage over more countries (used to be relevant before EU) and gets savings through consolidation and size.

Like so many other small national airlines across Europe, 2 or 3 independent airlines wouldn't have survived. Look at Malev, all the balkan national airlines, Estonia etc.
JAT is a good example. Used to be the national airline of multiple countries, ex-breakup it resulted in a multiple ailing ones.



edealinfo wrote:
What's even bizarre is that "Norwegian" Air Lines is an "IRISH" low cost carrier, so technically, Norway, doesn't own any airline. Why????


Not quite true. Norwegian is from Norway, but has subsidiaries across multiple countries, including Norway, Sweden, Ireland, the UK and formerly Argentina. Norwegian Long Haul and Norwegian International are registered in Ireland, for reasons of taxation primarily.
 
oldJoe
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:37 pm

I do wonder, how Finnair can survive on it`s own ?
 
ewt340
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:47 pm

Well they have to. Otherwise the low-end market gonna get consumed entirely by other LCCs.
 
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SASViking
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:51 pm

oldJoe wrote:
I do wonder, how Finnair can survive on it`s own ?

Two things mainly:

1)Their success on making Helsinki a transfer hub between Asia and Europe (using their geographical advantage).

2) Helsinki/Finland is not as competitive a market as Scandinavia. Finnair have monopoly on a lot of routes. There aren't many LCC's flying to Finland. KLM don't fly to every secondary airport etc.
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
VSMUT
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:59 pm

oldJoe wrote:
I do wonder, how Finnair can survive on it`s own ?


1. Finland is far from everywhere in Europe. The population has to fly to get anywhere.
2. They managed to build up a niche of providing long haul connections to Asia.
3. Didn't they make a loss for the past few years?
 
Someone83
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:03 pm

What has being a rich country to do with owning an airline?

Or maybe that how you get rich: don't own one
 
Someone83
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:05 pm

edealinfo wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
What's even bizarre is that "Norwegian" Air Lines is an "IRISH" low cost carrier, so technically, Norway, doesn't own any airline. Why????


Norwegian is basically several airlines (several AOC), with on ehappen to be registered in Ireland. They also have one each in Norway, Sweden and UK. However, the majority of their shareholder are Norwegian investors. And the top holding company is registered i Norway
 
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Polot
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:08 pm

Finnair does a bunch of outsourcing of crew and I would expect that to continue and probably be pushed to further extremes in the future. It is telling that Finnair has yet to order any A320Neos despite the fact that their Ceo fleet, minus about a dozen A321s, is rapidly approaching 20 years old.

I get the impression that if they easily could Finnair would gladly farm out their entire short haul operations.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:22 pm

Mortyman wrote:
with cheaper tariff agreements...


Is that an artifact of a bad Google Chrome translation? Would a native Norwegian speaker care to look at the linked article and give a better translation?
 
by738
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:24 pm

oh no, not this again !
 
konkret
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:30 pm

Polot wrote:
I get the impression that if they easily could Finnair would gladly farm out their entire short haul operations.



They already tried it once -> Flybe Nordic.
 
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Polot
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:44 pm

konkret wrote:
Polot wrote:
I get the impression that if they easily could Finnair would gladly farm out their entire short haul operations.



They already tried it once -> Flybe Nordic.

It still exists but as Nordic Regional Airlines (Norra) now. Flybe got out to cut costs and Danish Air Transport now has 60% of the venture.
 
vahancrazy
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:53 pm

Polot wrote:
Finnair does a bunch of outsourcing of crew and I would expect that to continue and probably be pushed to further extremes in the future. It is telling that Finnair has yet to order any A320Neos despite the fact that their Ceo fleet, minus about a dozen A321s, is rapidly approaching 20 years old.

I get the impression that if they easily could Finnair would gladly farm out their entire short haul operations.


Without short-haul, Finnair would be dead. Finnair exist because it links Europe to far east Asia.

Contrary To Finnair, SAS has no advantage against nearby competitors, in particular the big EU3.
 
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reidar76
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:38 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
with cheaper tariff agreements...


Is that an artifact of a bad Google Chrome translation? Would a native Norwegian speaker care to look at the linked article and give a better translation?


It is just not translated from Norwegian. "Tariff" is the Norwegian word for collective agreements between employers and the employees unions. Such an agreement covers everything from wages, working hours etc. and includes all social provisions.
 
oldJoe
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:43 pm

VSMUT wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
I do wonder, how Finnair can survive on it`s own ?


1. Finland is far from everywhere in Europe. The population has to fly to get anywhere.
2. They managed to build up a niche of providing long haul connections to Asia.
3. Didn't they make a loss for the past few years?

How is Finland " far " away from everywhere in Europe ? Stockholm Arlanda is just ~ 400 km ( direct ) away of Helsinki Vantaa, isn`t it ?
How the population of Finland has to fly to get anywhere, when the northern parts of Norway and Sweden don`t need, baffles me. Denmark is a different look.
Also ~ 400 km south of Helsinki is Riga, with a fast growing Air Baltic. On the east side not far away St. Petersburg, Russia ! No competition ?
Topic: SAS is working on a new airline. With all arguments that an airline for each of the three countries make no sense, wich sense makes another airline ?
I`m not against SAS or any of the countries and wish them well. I visited all Scandinavien Countries and I love the nature up there very much !
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:54 pm

reidar76 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
with cheaper tariff agreements...


Is that an artifact of a bad Google Chrome translation? Would a native Norwegian speaker care to look at the linked article and give a better translation?


It is just not translated from Norwegian. "Tariff" is the Norwegian word for collective agreements between employers and the employees unions. Such an agreement covers everything from wages, working hours etc. and includes all social provisions.


Thanks. That's not how Americans generally, nor American economists specifically, use the word tariff.
 
JBLUA320
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:56 pm

edealinfo wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
So who does SAS belong to? Denmark, Norway, Sweden? Aren't each of these countries rich enough to own their own airline as opposed to a common carrier?


Answering my own question. SAS used to be owned by all the 3 listed countries. However, per Wikipedia, " On 27 June 2018, the Norwegian government announced that it had sold all its shares in SAS."

I still don't understand why Sweden and Denmark don't have their own airline. They are rich and, among other things culturally, even have their own language.

What's even bizarre is that "Norwegian" Air Lines is an "IRISH" low cost carrier, so technically, Norway, doesn't own any airline. Why????


Not quite. A lot of the Norwegian planes are registered and flown by either the Norwegian or Swedish company.
 
YIMBY
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:53 am

oldJoe wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
I do wonder, how Finnair can survive on it`s own ?


1. Finland is far from everywhere in Europe. The population has to fly to get anywhere.
2. They managed to build up a niche of providing long haul connections to Asia.
3. Didn't they make a loss for the past few years?

How is Finland " far " away from everywhere in Europe ? Stockholm Arlanda is just ~ 400 km ( direct ) away of Helsinki Vantaa, isn`t it ?
How the population of Finland has to fly to get anywhere, when the northern parts of Norway and Sweden don`t need, baffles me. Denmark is a different look.
Also ~ 400 km south of Helsinki is Riga, with a fast growing Air Baltic. On the east side not far away St. Petersburg, Russia ! No competition ?
Topic: SAS is working on a new airline. With all arguments that an airline for each of the three countries make no sense, wich sense makes another airline ?
I`m not against SAS or any of the countries and wish them well. I visited all Scandinavien Countries and I love the nature up there very much !


Northern parts of Sweden are much less populated than northern Finland. Most of population concentrate within and south of Stockholm.
Swedes can more easily get to elsewhere by train, car, or Ferry, Finns not so easily (except Russia).
Anyway, without Asian traffic, Finnair would be just another struggling regional airline, like Air Baltic, if it would even exist. (And whether struggling or flourishing, a merger might give best value for the shareholders.)
 
airhansa
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:05 am

Finnair is based more eastern than most other developed cities and hence takes a lot of the transit market. It's the most direct and shortest route from East Asia to Europe. The alternatives are all in dubious developing countries or further to the west. Finnair flights also provide a "natural curve" to cities in Western Europe whereas other Nordic countries would be akin to sudden southwards turn.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:37 am

oldJoe wrote:
How is Finland " far " away from everywhere in Europe ? Stockholm Arlanda is just ~ 400 km ( direct ) away of Helsinki Vantaa, isn`t it ?
How the population of Finland has to fly to get anywhere, when the northern parts of Norway and Sweden don`t need, baffles me. Denmark is a different look.
Also ~ 400 km south of Helsinki is Riga, with a fast growing Air Baltic. On the east side not far away St. Petersburg, Russia ! No competition ?


Finland is far away. 400 km is a lot, especially since it is over water. It takes at least 2 hours to reach central Europe by plane. The distances are far enough to warrant A350 service to some European destinations. The country is surrounded by water, so driving or taking the train is not an option.
Scandinavia is tiny in terms of population, most of it concentrated down south towards Denmark, Skåne and the coastline up towards Oslo. Which from Finland requires you to cross a stretch of water and a whole lot of Sweden.
As for Russia, entering that country is difficult and requires visas and loads of paperwork. It just isn't relevant.
Riga? Tiny city. The Baltic countries have a combined population that is not far from Denmark, but with much less money, and also needs you to cross a stretch of water.


oldJoe wrote:
Topic: SAS is working on a new airline. With all arguments that an airline for each of the three countries make no sense, wich sense makes another airline ?


It is misleading to call it a new airline. It is a new operator. It is purely a cost-cutting maneuver. You probably won't be able to buy tickets specifically for it. It will be A220 or E2s in SAS markings with a small sticker by the door saying SAS operated by X, flying SAS passengers on regular SAS routes, but with pilots and cabin crew who make less money, live in worse hotels and paying taxes god knows where.
 
Toinou
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:50 am

Isn't that simply that Finnair is well established in that Europe-Asia transit market (which past and present Soviet/Russian-Finnish relationships may have helped to increase with easiest to obtain Siberian overflight rights) and that it is not so easy to enter a market on which another company has quite mastered (and to some extant created)?
 
okay
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:53 am

Gotta love these replies based on nothing but opinions but delivered as facts.
As an example, I entered on Google Maps Jonkoping, a city in the middle of Southern Sweden, as a starting point for a journey on land to Paris. Total travel time 22 hours. three different trasnports, two trains, one bus. How is this easy? I would say most of Swedes are more or less in the same situation as Finns, flying is the most convenient and fastest way to reach mainland Europe.

Finnair could be a struggling regional airline, like Air Baltic and SAS are. Thankfully they have found their strategy for which they work hard.
 
YIMBY
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:34 pm

okay wrote:
Gotta love these replies based on nothing but opinions but delivered as facts.
As an example, I entered on Google Maps Jonkoping, a city in the middle of Southern Sweden, as a starting point for a journey on land to Paris. Total travel time 22 hours. three different trasnports, two trains, one bus. How is this easy? I would say most of Swedes are more or less in the same situation as Finns, flying is the most convenient and fastest way to reach mainland Europe.


Quite an example. Of course, you can alternatively take the bus to Jönköping airport, fly with an obscure airline to Arlanda, (if it has not ceased its operations in the meanwhile) catch a bus and take another flight with another airline to CDG, and train to Paris. Easy?

But Paris is not all Europe - closer destinations matter more. It is so easy to take a train from Sweden to Denmark or Norway, and in one day you get from Stockholm to Hamburg (8 hours from Jönköping)(and may reach even Cologne before midnight). Done that to know, but I guess more people use cars than trains for shorter destinations.

Not to forget, before EU international flying was very expensive and regulated, while trains were cheap because of heavy government subsidies.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:23 pm

VSMUT wrote:

Finland is far away. 400 km is a lot, especially since it is over water. It takes at least 2 hours to reach central Europe by plane. The distances are far enough to warrant A350 service to some European destinations.


Distance has nothing to do with why Finnair flies A350 to Europe (they sometimes do within Finland as well), it's just demand.
 
oldJoe
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:39 am

NYCVIE wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

Finland is far away. 400 km is a lot, especially since it is over water. It takes at least 2 hours to reach central Europe by plane. The distances are far enough to warrant A350 service to some European destinations.


Distance has nothing to do with why Finnair flies A350 to Europe (they sometimes do within Finland as well), it's just demand.


Exactly !!! Look what EK is doing : A380 to Saudia, for example. A aircraft on the ground don`t shuffle in money anyway. Somewhere upthread I read Finnland is surounded of water, since when ? Mainland borders of Finnland are not water ! And driving from Finnland is an option. I did it more than once to St. Petersburg in Russia, and no, it was not a bunch of papers or hurdle in any way to get the visa. A three day visa needs you less then half an hour, and I`m a European passport holder of central Europe ! An argument here also was that Finns have to fly, because road or train is not availible. Tell me which person from Varangerbotn, Norway has any better chance for a sunbath holiday in southern Europe than anybody in Finnland nearby ? In my opinion the problem is the managment of SAS. The managers of Finnair had the better fortune in what they decided, and that`s it ! SAS is not struggling since yesterday ( pitty )
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:10 am

Finnair was allowed to fly over soviet airspace to Asia. They had a huge advantage of a shorter route to Asia. Those routes would never survive without feed still.

I think Finland still pays alot less than other countries to fly over russia.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:08 am

Someone83 wrote:
Wouldn't really called in a new airline. It is more like a new production company, with lower cost, in able to operate "A220 sized" jets


That would depend on how it would be shaped.

Look at Transavia for example, fully owned by Air France-KLM but nobody would consider Transavia to be just a production company. It's an airline of it's own. This could be something similar.

edealinfo wrote:
So who does SAS belong to? Denmark, Norway, Sweden? Aren't each of these countries rich enough to own their own airline as opposed to a common carrier?


That's not how the market works in Europe and certainly not in Scandinavia, where the government doesn't interfere in what businesses such as airlines do. SAS belongs to it's shareholders, not to the countries (unless those countries happen to be shareholders). Sure each of those countries could support an airline of their own, but it's not up to the government to decide that. It just so happens to be that one airline formed itself in all three of these countries. And why not? That's the way the market works.
 
Someone83
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:16 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Wouldn't really called in a new airline. It is more like a new production company, with lower cost, in able to operate "A220 sized" jets


That would depend on how it would be shaped.

Look at Transavia for example, fully owned by Air France-KLM but nobody would consider Transavia to be just a production company. It's an airline of it's own. This could be something similar.


Off course, but we're not talking about a "Transavia" here, but a company branded and sold as SAS. Just as SAS Ireland, that operates 9 A320neo. As a passenger you can't really notice that much difference, other that the crew usually don't speak any Scandinavian language
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:24 am

Europe needs a large no-restrictions low cost hub. Eastern Europe should take the lead and an LCC would be icing on the cake.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:50 am

Would it not make sense for Finnair to merge with SAS to create a larger and more viable airline (economies of scale, less duplication etc)?
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:20 pm

Like others have mentioned, this is just a production company for A220 or E2 fleet.
 
SKAirbus
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:36 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Would it not make sense for Finnair to merge with SAS to create a larger and more viable airline (economies of scale, less duplication etc)?


In short no. Less duplication means less competition, and competition is good for the region. Having SAS and Finnair overlapping on some long haul destinations gives consumers a choice in terms of price and alliance. SAS has around 160 aircraft in its fleet, which is a good size.

Consolidation is good to a certain extend, in that it removes smaller, failing companies from the market but then you look at countries like Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Belgium where there is very little competition left due to Lufthansa's spending spree leading to astronomical prices on many routes.
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VSMUT
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:34 pm

oldJoe wrote:
Tell me which person from Varangerbotn, Norway has any better chance for a sunbath holiday in southern Europe than anybody in Finnland nearby?


Errr what? Do you know nothing about transport in Norway? They rely even more on aviation to get around than Finland does. That is the entire model of Widerøe, which receives generous government subsidies to run those routes.
 
FatCat
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:38 pm

Joon I see yoon
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
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SASViking
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:19 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Wouldn't really called in a new airline. It is more like a new production company, with lower cost, in able to operate "A220 sized" jets


That would depend on how it would be shaped.

Look at Transavia for example, fully owned by Air France-KLM but nobody would consider Transavia to be just a production company. It's an airline of it's own. This could be something similar.

It's not going to be an airline operating under a different brand, it's going to be an airline operating smaller regional jets om behalf of, and branded as, SAS.
It'll be like SAS Ireland and the good old SAS Commuter. Same livery, same service levels onboard and in the airport etc.
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
Toinou
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Re: Newspaper: SAS is working on a new airline

Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:43 pm

SKAirbus wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Would it not make sense for Finnair to merge with SAS to create a larger and more viable airline (economies of scale, less duplication etc)?


In short no. Less duplication means less competition, and competition is good for the region. Having SAS and Finnair overlapping on some long haul destinations gives consumers a choice in terms of price and alliance. SAS has around 160 aircraft in its fleet, which is a good size.

Consolidation is good to a certain extend, in that it removes smaller, failing companies from the market but then you look at countries like Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Belgium where there is very little competition left due to Lufthansa's spending spree leading to astronomical prices on many routes.


I would tend to think too that it may not be a good option but for a different reason: SAS already has difficulties to handle the fact that its customer base expect a good service from its home country, which means they have to try to serve three markets like each was their base one. I don't think adding a fourth country and hud would help them.

About your Lufthansa example, I would disagree to some extant: the market in ZRH may lack a strong competition but other airports in Switzerland have a lot of it (and remember that the country is really small), especially from LCC.

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