Someone83
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Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:01 am

Airbus has confirmed they will start producing A321neo in Toulouse from mid 2022, by using space in the A380 buildings. However, it will not increase the overall A320-series output from Toulouse

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... louse.html

Following its strategy to keep its overall production system at the leading edge of technology and to increase industrial capacity and flexibility, Airbus has decided to create new A321 production capabilities at its site in Toulouse
 
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zeke
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:06 am

Makes sense, thought the 320 buildings were not large enough for the A321
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FluidFlow
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:13 am

Free's up the old A320 building for something new, possibly A220 if enough orders allow for increased production in the future. 4 in Mobile, 8 in Mirabel and 8 in Toulouse for a total of 20 per month in 2027.
 
JonesNL
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:29 am

Strange that they do not intend to increase the overall output. It would generate significant sales if they can provide new delivery slots from 2022 and onward.
 
PepeTheFrog
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:43 am

JonesNL wrote:
Strange that they do not intend to increase the overall output. It would generate significant sales if they can provide new delivery slots from 2022 and onward.


The press release does not mention it, but it wouldn't be surprised if they use the space exclusively for the A321 XLR.
 
DALCE
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:56 am

Perhaps they are considering to use the A380 facilities to refresh and relocate the 32X line and making it ready for 321 production. The 'old' 320 facility can then be adjusted for a C-ser....errrr...A220 FAL.
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mxaxai
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:02 am

JonesNL wrote:
Strange that they do not intend to increase the overall output. It would generate significant sales if they can provide new delivery slots from 2022 and onward.

AFAIK they are still limited by their supply chain for total output per month.
 
Antaras
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:02 am

That is a wise choice as XFW is being overloaded by a large number of A321neo orders. Besides that, as the A321XLR will start its production from 2023 so AIB needs much more space for more delivery slots.
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Antaras
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:10 am

mxaxai wrote:
JonesNL wrote:
Strange that they do not intend to increase the overall output. It would generate significant sales if they can provide new delivery slots from 2022 and onward.

AFAIK they are still limited by their supply chain for total output per month.

Why?
In 2019 bunches of their customers had angry with Airbus due to the delay of deliveries. For example, AIB proposed that they will deliver up to 15 A321Ns for VJ. And guess what, only 7 were delivered in 2019 and now VJ said that they have to wet lease up to 10 airframes (as well as some ex-Thomas Cook A321WLs) because they don't have enough airframes for this current high season: Asian Lunar New Year in this week and the next week.

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mjoelnir
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:22 am

If a new line in TLS keeps the overall production number flat, they replace the oldest A320 family production line, with the new line in TLS.
 
CFRPwingALbody
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:31 am

The Airbus press release specifically quotes:
By mid-2022 the current A380 Lagardère facility in Toulouse will accommodate a digitally-enabled A321 line as a step to modernize the A320 production system in Toulouse. The new facilities will provide more flexibility for A321 production, while keeping the overall single aisle industrial capacity in Toulouse flat.


Let's add some images for context. I think this will work way better than Hamburg FAL4.
Image
Image
Image

Hamburg FAL 3 & 4 for comparison:
Image
Image
I expect that the A321FAL in Toulouse will be able to run at a higher rate than Hamburg FAL3 (that is running higher than FAL4).
Note that in the A380 FAL there is also still room for a second A350FAL, besides the A321FAL. Another option is three A32X FAL's.
Last edited by CFRPwingALbody on Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
StTim
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:32 am

It would provide opportunities to overhaul the old 320 lines at Toulouse allowing further ramp up in the future.

Plus it will allow an increase in the share of output for the 321
 
Armodeen
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:45 am

This is the obvious move. The A380 FAL is absolutely massive and could have multiple uses.

I expect this will pave the way for a future rate increase once the supply chain is sorted out.
 
PepeTheFrog
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:10 pm

DALCE wrote:
Perhaps they are considering to use the A380 facilities to refresh and relocate the 32X line and making it ready for 321 production. The 'old' 320 facility can then be adjusted for a C-ser....errrr...A220 FAL.


The A380 buildings are HUGE, it would have room for both A321 and A220 production.
 
Carmitage
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:54 pm

The A380 building doesn't seem that big....

....until you notice how small the people are
 
WIederling
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:54 pm

StTim wrote:
It would provide opportunities to overhaul the old 320 lines at Toulouse allowing further ramp up in the future.

Plus it will allow an increase in the share of output for the A321


At the moment customer upgrades from A320* to A321 have a good chance of being displaced from TLS ( initialy planned prod. site).

Airbus expect to grow A321 output to 50% of deliveries over the next years. i.e. the demand for A321 ready FAL lines is "there".
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:02 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
Free's up the old A320 building for something new, possibly A220 if enough orders allow for increased production in the future. 4 in Mobile, 8 in Mirabel and 8 in Toulouse for a total of 20 per month in 2027.


This would be a dumb move. I don't get why people think they need to start up 220 production in Europe.

1) A lot of the CSeries/A220 supply chain is local to the Montreal area.

2) Mirabel is not close to maxing out (max @ rate 15). So no economy of scale yet.

3) Mobile is a hedge against US political concerns about aircraft imports. Europe has no such issues.

No FAL is needed beyond Mirabel and Mobile until they surpass 20 frames per month. And that is not happening for the better part of a decade.

I would argue that moving to the ex-A380 FAL will let them reconfigure and modernize A320 family production at Toulouse to enable growth variants like the stretched 320s and 321s. And will let them push production up to rate 70 across the 320NEO family (if suppliers can keep up). The campus is a bit of a sprawling mess. And this might give them the opportunity to do some infrastructure development as well.
 
musman9853
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:34 pm

JonesNL wrote:
Strange that they do not intend to increase the overall output. It would generate significant sales if they can provide new delivery slots from 2022 and onward.


the supply chain is already probably overextended as it is, no?
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JoergAtADN
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:49 pm

musman9853 wrote:
the supply chain is already probably overextended as it is, no?

This suddenly changed with the production stop of the 737. Suppliers who work for both programs, like the engine supplier CFM, have suddenly a massive overcapacity and it will take propably years until they are fully loaded again.
 
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:05 pm

musman9853 wrote:
JonesNL wrote:
Strange that they do not intend to increase the overall output. It would generate significant sales if they can provide new delivery slots from 2022 and onward.


the supply chain is already probably overextended as it is, no?

That's a classy problem to have, no?

The order book is full through 2025, partially full thereafter.

Airbus has been sending the message that the rate shall go up, suppliers need to be ready to make more or be bypassed.

I think the production rate cap statement is intended to avoid too many questions about work share between FR, DE, US, CN, UK, etc.

Just size the initial A321 FAL to replace A320 capacity as it is wound down, but with plenty of "digital enhancement" to let it grow rapidly if that is needed or desired.

No need to show all the cards right up front.
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Turnhouse1
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:04 pm

JoergAtADN wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
the supply chain is already probably overextended as it is, no?

This suddenly changed with the production stop of the 737. Suppliers who work for both programs, like the engine supplier CFM, have suddenly a massive overcapacity and it will take propably years until they are fully loaded again.


The rate is limited by the slowest supplier, so while some parts such as engines may now be much more easily available, if there is just one critical widget manufacturer who didn't also work for Boeing and is struggling to expand they are stuck at the current rate.

How limited by space is the A350 line?
 
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Re: Airbus to start producing A321neo in Toulouse

Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:51 pm

Turnhouse1 wrote:
JoergAtADN wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
the supply chain is already probably overextended as it is, no?

This suddenly changed with the production stop of the 737. Suppliers who work for both programs, like the engine supplier CFM, have suddenly a massive overcapacity and it will take propably years until they are fully loaded again.

The rate is limited by the slowest supplier, so while some parts such as engines may now be much more easily available, if there is just one critical widget manufacturer who didn't also work for Boeing and is struggling to expand they are stuck at the current rate.

Yes, I think many of us recall the comments of Airbus's Tom Williams when A350 production was delayed because the manufacturer of the doors for the loo wasn't able to keep up with demand.
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