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xwb777
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Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:23 pm

Following the necessary diversions to avoid the Iranian airspace, Emirates Airline has started to add technical stops to selected U.S destinations. Several Emirates flights to the USA, has been stooping at Copenhagen Kastrup, Stockholm Arlanda and Toronto Pearson Int.

On 13/1, EK211 from DXB to IAH has made a tech at YYZ
On 14&15/1, EK221 to DFW, operated by the B777-300(ER), made a tech stop at ARN
On 20/1, EK215 flight toLAX, operated by the A380-800,made a tech stop at CPH.

All other U.S flights are running as normal.

Source: ch-aviation.com/portal/news/85451-emirates-adds-tech-stops-on-select-us-flights
 
FSDan
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:41 pm

It sounds like these are day-by-day decisions, and not scheduled tech stops?
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YYZORD
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:56 pm

Does the DXB-IAH flight go through US Preclearance at YYZ?
 
Bhoy
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:53 pm

YYZORD wrote:
Does the DXB-IAH flight go through US Preclearance at YYZ?

Very much doubt it - it would after all involve disembarking everyone, the Aircraft being towed to a gate beyond preclearance (or I suppose Pax being bussed to it), all baggage being unloaded to be hand carried through US Customs, then reloaded.
Not forgetting that upon arrival at IAH, the Pax would then have to be dropped off after CBP (presumably at a domestic gate, otherwise baggage reclaim would be before CBP), or else they’d end up in Customs queues with other arriving Intl Pax.
 
Western727
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:56 pm

YYZORD wrote:
Does the DXB-IAH flight go through US Preclearance at YYZ?


That's an interesting question, since the aircraft spent over 3 hours at YYZ, so I wonder if that was the case. It doesn't seem like it'd take that long to fuel an aircraft for the relatively short trip to IAH, even if it's a 380.
Jack @ AUS
 
edealinfo
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:35 pm

Western727 wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Does the DXB-IAH flight go through US Preclearance at YYZ?


That's an interesting question, since the aircraft spent over 3 hours at YYZ, so I wonder if that was the case. It doesn't seem like it'd take that long to fuel an aircraft for the relatively short trip to IAH, even if it's a 380.


Maybe they had to join the “queue or line” as departing slots would be prioritize based on which carrier held the slot and was ready for take off.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:07 pm

FSDan wrote:
It sounds like these are day-by-day decisions, and not scheduled tech stops?


If these get scheduled it will present a great opportunity to demand a refund on that no-longer-nonstop non-refundable ticket. U.S. DOT rules allow a refund of nonrefundable tickets if the routing is changed from a non-stop to direct, or direct to a connection.
 
drdisque
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:49 pm

Bhoy wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Does the DXB-IAH flight go through US Preclearance at YYZ?

Very much doubt it - it would after all involve disembarking everyone, the Aircraft being towed to a gate beyond preclearance (or I suppose Pax being bussed to it), all baggage being unloaded to be hand carried through US Customs, then reloaded.
Not forgetting that upon arrival at IAH, the Pax would then have to be dropped off after CBP (presumably at a domestic gate, otherwise baggage reclaim would be before CBP), or else they’d end up in Customs queues with other arriving Intl Pax.


The second part isn't a concern. All gates on D where the flight arrives can easily be configured for domestic arrival just by opening and closing a few doors.
 
stylo777
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:51 pm

did they have to change the crews due to these tech-stops?
 
Adipocere
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:47 pm

YYZORD wrote:
Does the DXB-IAH flight go through US Preclearance at YYZ?


Wouldn’t that require everyone onboard to have paperwork to enter Canada? A lot of people from the ME neck of the woods won’t be able to just enter Canada with just their passports..
 
by738
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:53 pm

im sure GLA would have liked a bit of that action
 
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redzeppelin
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:00 pm

Adipocere wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Does the DXB-IAH flight go through US Preclearance at YYZ?


Wouldn’t that require everyone onboard to have paperwork to enter Canada? A lot of people from the ME neck of the woods won’t be able to just enter Canada with just their passports..


Nope. It is possible to connect to USA-bound flights without entering Canada at most Canadian airports with USA preclearance. Arriving passengers may go directly to the USA preclearance queue, complete US customs and go from there to the secure concourse for USA departures. I've done it at YVR and it works very nicely.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:08 pm

redzeppelin wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Does the DXB-IAH flight go through US Preclearance at YYZ?


Wouldn’t that require everyone onboard to have paperwork to enter Canada? A lot of people from the ME neck of the woods won’t be able to just enter Canada with just their passports..


Nope. It is possible to connect to USA-bound flights without entering Canada at most Canadian airports with USA preclearance. Arriving passengers may go directly to the USA preclearance queue, complete US customs and go from there to the secure concourse for USA departures. I've done it at YVR and it works very nicely.


Do any of the 388 gates at Terminal 1 connect to
preclearance? There are widebody gates that do on the spine of the concourse, but the gates down at the end do not.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
zuckie13
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:13 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
It sounds like these are day-by-day decisions, and not scheduled tech stops?


If these get scheduled it will present a great opportunity to demand a refund on that no-longer-nonstop non-refundable ticket. U.S. DOT rules allow a refund of nonrefundable tickets if the routing is changed from a non-stop to direct, or direct to a connection.


I feel like a tech stop doesn't really reach the definition of either direct or connection.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:43 am

Bhoy wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Not forgetting that upon arrival at IAH, the Pax would then have to be dropped off after CBP (presumably at a domestic gate, otherwise baggage reclaim would be before CBP), or else they’d end up in Customs queues with other arriving Intl Pax.

No they wouldn't. All of IAH's FIS-gates can accept domestic arrivals directly into their respective terminals, as is the case with essentially every US international airport.

Baggage can be sent straight in as well.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:44 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Bhoy wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Not forgetting that upon arrival at IAH, the Pax would then have to be dropped off after CBP (presumably at a domestic gate, otherwise baggage reclaim would be before CBP), or else they’d end up in Customs queues with other arriving Intl Pax.

No they wouldn't. All of IAH's FIS-gates can accept domestic arrivals directly into their respective terminals, as is the case with essentially every US international airport.

Baggage can be sent straight in as well.


This is true for BOS as well, in fact Terminal E is actively used as a domestic terminal for F9, HA, SY, B6 and soon we believe G4 as well in the morning hours when there is little to no regular international requirements. Massport are using it to maximize usage because A,B and C are essentially full with their respective airlines.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Western727
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:08 pm

zuckie13 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
It sounds like these are day-by-day decisions, and not scheduled tech stops?


If these get scheduled it will present a great opportunity to demand a refund on that no-longer-nonstop non-refundable ticket. U.S. DOT rules allow a refund of nonrefundable tickets if the routing is changed from a non-stop to direct, or direct to a connection.


I feel like a tech stop doesn't really reach the definition of either direct or connection.


I wonder about this as well. Does anyone know of USDOT rules specifically for tech stops?
Jack @ AUS
 
vegas005
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:56 pm

why would avoiding Iran require a tech stop on the way to the USA? It is in the wrong direction .... ??
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:04 pm

vegas005 wrote:
why would avoiding Iran require a tech stop on the way to the USA? It is in the wrong direction .... ??


http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=dxb-iah/lax/dfw%0d%0aika%0d%0aarn%0d%0acph%0d%0adfw+%0d%0alax%0d%0ayyz&MS=wls&MP=polar&MX=540x540&PM=*

Actually you go right over Iran and very close to Tehran (see globe) from Dubai to Houston. Given that it is already an 8,168 mile great circle route, any deviation would probably mean that the fuel reserve would be low.
Last edited by PacoMartin on Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:06 pm

vegas005 wrote:
why would avoiding Iran require a tech stop on the way to the USA? It is in the wrong direction .... ??


Honest question.....are you a flat earth believer? If not then look in to the shortest distance between 2 points on a sphere.

If you are a flat earther.......then I can’t help you.
 
atomiclizzard
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:24 pm

Really dumb question....but what's a Tech Stop?
 
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Polot
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:43 pm

atomiclizzard wrote:
Really dumb question....but what's a Tech Stop?

That’s the industry term for basically a pit stop for fuel. You are quickly stopping purely for technical reasons (not enough fuel) and then going on your way.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:05 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
vegas005 wrote:
why would avoiding Iran require a tech stop on the way to the USA? It is in the wrong direction .... ??


http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=dxb-iah/lax/dfw%0d%0aika%0d%0aarn%0d%0acph%0d%0adfw+%0d%0alax%0d%0ayyz&MS=wls&MP=polar&MX=540x540&PM=*

Actually you go right over Iran and very close to Tehran (see globe) from Dubai to Houston. Given that it is already an 8,168 mile great circle route, any deviation would probably mean that the fuel reserve would be low.


You can look on FR24 any day of the week (these past few weeks, not as much) and there's a veritable conga line of EK flights transiting Iranian airspace heading to Europe and North America. Any closure of that airspace would have a dramatic effect on their operations.
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StarAC17
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:07 pm

Bhoy wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Does the DXB-IAH flight go through US Preclearance at YYZ?

Very much doubt it - it would after all involve disembarking everyone, the Aircraft being towed to a gate beyond preclearance (or I suppose Pax being bussed to it), all baggage being unloaded to be hand carried through US Customs, then reloaded.
Not forgetting that upon arrival at IAH, the Pax would then have to be dropped off after CBP (presumably at a domestic gate, otherwise baggage reclaim would be before CBP), or else they’d end up in Customs queues with other arriving Intl Pax.


I don't think any F gates at YYZ T1 can handle an A380. As said they have doors that can expand D and F on demand and E and F also. If this was a 777 coming in then they could do that along the spine of T1 as there are gates that can handle a 777 as AC will operate 777's to LAX and SFO in peak periods.

Cubsrule wrote:
redzeppelin wrote:
Adipocere wrote:

Wouldn’t that require everyone onboard to have paperwork to enter Canada? A lot of people from the ME neck of the woods won’t be able to just enter Canada with just their passports..


Nope. It is possible to connect to USA-bound flights without entering Canada at most Canadian airports with USA preclearance. Arriving passengers may go directly to the USA preclearance queue, complete US customs and go from there to the secure concourse for USA departures. I've done it at YVR and it works very nicely.


Do any of the 388 gates at Terminal 1 connect to
preclearance? There are widebody gates that do on the spine of the concourse, but the gates down at the end do not.


While true regarding transit they probably had to arrange this beforehand with the US CBP to use YYZ's pre-clearance facilities on an international flight to IAH.

IIRC the gates are E71 and E75 and they are in the center of the hammer at T1. If they did unload the pax then they probably used one of the A380 gates and just placed the pax in the international concourse and arrived at IAH normally and did US customs in IAH. Or made the passengers do a Customs C (what a US-International to international-international connection passenger would do). They would bypass immigration entirely and be back in the departure fall.

Western727 wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Does the DXB-IAH flight go through US Preclearance at YYZ?


That's an interesting question, since the aircraft spent over 3 hours at YYZ, so I wonder if that was the case. It doesn't seem like it'd take that long to fuel an aircraft for the relatively short trip to IAH, even if it's a 380.


Depending on the time of day and weather 3 hours is realistic at YYZ if they needed time to do a crew swap if necessary and if they needed to load and unload 400 pax that adds time. Also add in its January at YYZ which is very busy mid-afternoon to evening and if the weather was iffy on the 13th they have to de-ice and A380. This winter has been mild so far but that probably needed to be done.
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StarAC17
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:22 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
vegas005 wrote:
why would avoiding Iran require a tech stop on the way to the USA? It is in the wrong direction .... ??


Honest question.....are you a flat earth believer? If not then look in to the shortest distance between 2 points on a sphere.

If you are a flat earther.......then I can’t help you.


No need to be snarky about a legit question, even people who know that earth is a ball might have trouble with the great circle, its not a form of navigation people use in their everyday lives if they aren't pilots.

You look at the what routing is on a map and it doesn't look like it hits much of Iran and can be a simple mistake. I have a friend who is hardly a flat earther and he couldn't grasp that YYZ-DEL was shorter than YYZ-BOM even though DEL is further east on a map, it isn't intuitive.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:44 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
No need to be snarky about a legit question, even people who know that earth is a ball might have trouble with the great circle, its not a form of navigation people use in their everyday lives if they aren't pilots.


Even without accurate measurements, you should know that all great circle measurements between two points in the northern hemisphere are going to head north. For instance flying from JFK to MAD which are at the same latitude means flying to a more northern latitude.

The angle at which you fly north gets more extreme the further apart the cities are. LAX and DXB are pretty far apart. In the most extreme situation you at the opposit longitude you must fly due north.


StarAC17 wrote:
I have a friend who is hardly a flat earther and he couldn't grasp that YYZ-DEL was shorter than YYZ-BOM even though DEL is further east on a map, it isn't intuitive.


It's a long-range flight, and BOM is only slightly east of DEL. A long-range flight is mostly polar and DEL is significantly north of BOM.
 
vegas005
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:52 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
No need to be snarky about a legit question, even people who know that earth is a ball might have trouble with the great circle, its not a form of navigation people use in their everyday lives if they aren't pilots.


Even without accurate measurements, you should know that all great circle measurements between two points in the northern hemisphere are going to head north. For instance flying from JFK to MAD which are at the same latitude means flying to a more northern latitude.

The angle at which you fly north gets more extreme the further apart the cities are. LAX and DXB are pretty far apart. In the most extreme situation you at the opposit longitude you must fly due north.


StarAC17 wrote:
I have a friend who is hardly a flat earther and he couldn't grasp that YYZ-DEL was shorter than YYZ-BOM even though DEL is further east on a map, it isn't intuitive.


It's a long-range flight, and BOM is only slightly east of DEL. A long-range flight is mostly polar and DEL is significantly north of BOM.


Thanks StarAC17 -- I just assumed they would fly up the Persian Gulf over Iraq and rejoin the original flight plan somewhere over Armenia but it looks like they fly farther east than I thought. Thanks for the clarity. As far as Captain Snarky goes I have added him to the foe list...although I have another name for it...
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:45 am

Just remember that if two airports are 180 degrees in longitude apart the great circle is over the north pole. DXB and LAX are 174 degrees of longitude, so the great circle is just shy of due north.

Even DXB and IAH are still 151 degrees apart
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:06 pm

surprise SFO/SEA dont need
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:21 pm

This being a tech stop thread, can someone knowledgable post details how a scheduled tech stop works, assuming plane will stay at a remote stand, no passengers will disembark.

How immigration and customs treat these flights?
How airports charge these flights (ie., any cheaper than if this was a regular destination)
Can airline have catering service.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:59 pm

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=sfo-ams/dxb%0d%0aika%0d%0aBINP%0d%0ajfk-mad&R=2620km%40BINP%0d%0a660nmi%40BINP%0d%0a2700nmi%40BINP&MS=bm&MP=polar&MX=540x540&PM=*&RS=outline&RC=%2300ffff

I don't know if this polar centered map helps.
(1) A great circle route from JFK to MAD where both airports are roughly 40.5 degrees latitude crosses north of the 45 degree latitude
(2) San Francisco to Amsterdam great circle route touchest the Artic Circle
(3) San Francisco to Dubai great circle route comes north of 78 degrees latitude making it a "polar route" by the definition of the FAA. It crosses Iran territory and is actually East of Tehran airport (IKA).
 
dstblj52
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:15 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
This being a tech stop thread, can someone knowledgable post details how a scheduled tech stop works, assuming plane will stay at a remote stand, no passengers will disembark.

How immigration and customs treat these flights?
How airports charge these flights (ie., any cheaper than if this was a regular destination)
Can airline have catering service.

1. So long as no passengers get past immigration it's fine, most of the time they don't want to disembark passengers so that they can get back in the air faster but if its going to take a while because of slots or issues they might disembark passengers into an international gate.
2. No idea that varies by airport and by contract.
3. All catering must be destroyed on international flights but so long as nothing is put on or taken off the plane it can wait till they get to the port of entry.
 
Western727
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:25 pm

dstblj52 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
This being a tech stop thread, can someone knowledgable post details how a scheduled tech stop works, assuming plane will stay at a remote stand, no passengers will disembark.

How immigration and customs treat these flights?
How airports charge these flights (ie., any cheaper than if this was a regular destination)
Can airline have catering service.

1. So long as no passengers get past immigration it's fine, most of the time they don't want to disembark passengers so that they can get back in the air faster but if its going to take a while because of slots or issues they might disembark passengers into an international gate.
2. No idea that varies by airport and by contract.
3. All catering must be destroyed on international flights but so long as nothing is put on or taken off the plane it can wait till they get to the port of entry.


That aligns with my two tech stops, one US domestic and one int'l, that I can recall.

US Domestic: UA 733 ORD-SEA in the winter did a tech stop in BIL for fuel. We landed, parked at a gate and waited for what felt like a half hour while the fuel truck did its work. The jetway I recall connected, and some interactions happened, but no catering was performed and everyone stayed onboard, probably to foster a quick departure and minimize delays.

Int'l: NW D10 BOS-LGW diverted to PIK outside of Glasgow due to fog at Gatwick (shocker, right?). No catering was done, and the only things that happened during the 3-hour long wait were fuel services as well as airstairs being brought to door 1L. The only interaction that I noticed was a couple of personnel chatting with the flight crew and a few passengers just inside the door. The flight crew advised that everyone was being kept on to foster a quick departure once the fog cleared.
Jack @ AUS
 
FSDan
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:34 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
This being a tech stop thread, can someone knowledgable post details how a scheduled tech stop works, assuming plane will stay at a remote stand, no passengers will disembark.

How immigration and customs treat these flights?
How airports charge these flights (ie., any cheaper than if this was a regular destination)
Can airline have catering service.


ET has regular scheduled tech stops at DUB on their ADD-ORD and ADD-IAD flights, and they tend to be scheduled as 45m-1h stops. I imagine in that time there's no movement of passengers or catering (especially since IIRC the stops are very early in the morning), although I'm not sure if the aircraft pulls up to a gate or stays at a remote stand.
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swain
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:39 pm

Will they change all their crew ?
 
dstblj52
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:45 pm

Western727 wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
This being a tech stop thread, can someone knowledgable post details how a scheduled tech stop works, assuming plane will stay at a remote stand, no passengers will disembark.

How immigration and customs treat these flights?
How airports charge these flights (ie., any cheaper than if this was a regular destination)
Can airline have catering service.

1. So long as no passengers get past immigration it's fine, most of the time they don't want to disembark passengers so that they can get back in the air faster but if its going to take a while because of slots or issues they might disembark passengers into an international gate.
2. No idea that varies by airport and by contract.
3. All catering must be destroyed on international flights but so long as nothing is put on or taken off the plane it can wait till they get to the port of entry.


That aligns with my two tech stops, one US domestic and one int'l, that I can recall.

US Domestic: UA 733 ORD-SEA in the winter did a tech stop in BIL for fuel. We landed, parked at a gate and waited for what felt like a half hour while the fuel truck did its work. The jetway I recall connected, and some interactions happened, but no catering was performed and everyone stayed onboard, probably to foster a quick departure and minimize delays.

Int'l: NW D10 BOS-LGW diverted to PIK outside of Glasgow due to fog at Gatwick (shocker, right?). No catering was done, and the only things that happened during the 3-hour long wait were fuel services as well as airstairs being brought to door 1L. The only interaction that I noticed was a couple of personnel chatting with the flight crew and a few passengers just inside the door. The flight crew advised that everyone was being kept on to foster a quick departure once the fog cleared.

Domestic tech stops have fewer rules in general mostly focused on making sure that security is not compromised.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:49 pm

FSDan wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
This being a tech stop thread, can someone knowledgable post details how a scheduled tech stop works, assuming plane will stay at a remote stand, no passengers will disembark.

How immigration and customs treat these flights?
How airports charge these flights (ie., any cheaper than if this was a regular destination)
Can airline have catering service.


ET has regular scheduled tech stops at DUB on their ADD-ORD and ADD-IAD flights, and they tend to be scheduled as 45m-1h stops. I imagine in that time there's no movement of passengers or catering (especially since IIRC the stops are very early in the morning), although I'm not sure if the aircraft pulls up to a gate or stays at a remote stand.


This is what I was looking for, not ad-hoc tech stops. I could have used DXB-SFO example, but there is no good midpoint because of its flight path. HNL is actually very good tech stop for JFK-SYD

Wouldn't it be better to cater at Dublin rather than loading for entire 14+ hours, in terms of weight savings.
All posts are just opinions.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:41 pm

To those inquiring about tech stops, please allow me to add that flying westbound is almost always against the winds. In the U.S., a west coast - east coast non-stop might go shockingly fast with a tail wind (I have done SAN-EWR in just a tad over four hours); however, westbound can easily go over six hours. Notice that none of the announcements involved an eastbound tech stop? Only westbound.

I would also venture a guess that a tech stop WITHOUT having passengers disembark is common, but scheduling a tech stop, such as DXB-YYZ-IAH could be problematic, given Canada's complete refusal to allow Americans into the country who have a drunk driving conviction on their record. Even transit passengers are not permitted to board the plane. Unannounced in an over-fly-turning-into-a-tech-stop for a DUI American wouldn't be a big deal; but a scheduled DXB-IAH turning into a full-fledged DXB-YYZ-IAH would be problematic; especially if the American passenger already purchased the ticket and now can't board the flight because of the Canadian ban on DUI's.

No airline wants a tech stop, ever. It slows up the schedule, and one can hear the profits evaporating every second the plane is on the ground. If it's going to be done, it's going to be calculated on a daily basis.
 
StarAC17
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:23 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
To those inquiring about tech stops, please allow me to add that flying westbound is almost always against the winds. In the U.S., a west coast - east coast non-stop might go shockingly fast with a tail wind (I have done SAN-EWR in just a tad over four hours); however, westbound can easily go over six hours. Notice that none of the announcements involved an eastbound tech stop? Only westbound.

I would also venture a guess that a tech stop WITHOUT having passengers disembark is common, but scheduling a tech stop, such as DXB-YYZ-IAH could be problematic, given Canada's complete refusal to allow Americans into the country who have a drunk driving conviction on their record. Even transit passengers are not permitted to board the plane. Unannounced in an over-fly-turning-into-a-tech-stop for a DUI American wouldn't be a big deal; but a scheduled DXB-IAH turning into a full-fledged DXB-YYZ-IAH would be problematic; especially if the American passenger already purchased the ticket and now can't board the flight because of the Canadian ban on DUI's.

No airline wants a tech stop, ever. It slows up the schedule, and one can hear the profits evaporating every second the plane is on the ground. If it's going to be done, it's going to be calculated on a daily basis.


If this tech stop was planned then I would assume EK would have to figure out the logistics at IAH to ensure that it goes to a domestic gate provided all pax went through pre-clearance at YYZ. I can almost guarantee that this wasn't the case and either the pax stayed on the plane or were offloaded to the international concourse of T1 to board again after a turnaround. This would put the aircraft in US jurisdiction to inspect the luggage and cargo at YYZ which would be a logistical mess considering how busy YYZ is.

No gates at YYZ that can accommodate pre-clearance can accommodate and A380, if this was a 77W then perhaps.

FYI:
If you are transiting YYZ through T1 which EK flies into all US bound pax go straight to US pre-clearance without having to go through Canadian customs and immigration. Furthermore I cannot speak for the CBSA but if someone did have to go through Canadian immigration (if they were connecting on WS for example and had to change terminals) and had a DUI I would assume it would be better for all parties that the person is under CBSA escort to ensure they get on their onward flight or issued a visitor record for a short layover. This meaning if you don't leave when they record expires then you can be prosecuted by Canadian authorities.

Also noting for DUI's there are many celebrities, athletes and professionals that have been charged with DUI's or other crimes that would make you inadmissible to Canada but still enter. You would go to a Canadian consulate and be vetted there to assess the reason-ability of entering Canada.
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Bhoy
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:36 pm

I had a further thought about going through pre-clearance at YYZ during a ‘tech stop’ - what would happen if CBP deemed a passenger inadmissible (for Visa reasons or whatever)- if it happened at the US Gateway, they’d be detained, and put back on the Plane back to point of origin. This would presumably be more difficult at YYZ, as presumably such travellers would have to be turned over to Canadian Immigration to return them.
If it wasn’t a stop over (ie Pax were starting travel at YYZ), they would surely just be returned landside as they would have had to legally have the right to be in Canada (transit visa not withstanding) anyway?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:05 pm

Bhoy wrote:
I had a further thought about going through pre-clearance at YYZ during a ‘tech stop’ - what would happen if CBP deemed a passenger inadmissible (for Visa reasons or whatever)- if it happened at the US Gateway, they’d be detained, and put back on the Plane back to point of origin. This would presumably be more difficult at YYZ, as presumably such travellers would have to be turned over to Canadian Immigration to return them.

If it wasn’t a stop over (ie Pax were starting travel at YYZ), they would surely just be returned landside as they would have had to legally have the right to be in Canada (transit visa not withstanding) anyway?



That person wouldn't be permitted to board the plane in the first place. The passport would be scanned at check-in, and the agent would say, "sorry, you can't board this plane!"

With regards to Americans with a DUI, there is a process to receive permission to enter Canada. A Canadian citizen familiar with the process will have to give more information; however, it involves applying for temporary citizenship. This is how President George W Bush was allowed to visit (even a diplomatic mission wasn't enough to overrule the DUI over the Presidency!), and how Olympic athletes were able to participate in 2010 in Vancouver. I have heard that the process isn't foolproof, in that even those who have the permission can be denied by a Canadian authority, much in the way FIS in the U.S. can deny entry because they're in a bad mood that day to someone with the proper paperwork, but again, I don't have the details.

But a DUI on your record also prohibits an American from even transiting the country. Air Canada told me in no uncertain terms that our proposed ZRH-YVR-SAN flight would NOT be permitted because of my husband's past DUI.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:34 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Bhoy wrote:
I had a further thought about going through pre-clearance at YYZ during a ‘tech stop’ - what would happen if CBP deemed a passenger inadmissible (for Visa reasons or whatever)- if it happened at the US Gateway, they’d be detained, and put back on the Plane back to point of origin. This would presumably be more difficult at YYZ, as presumably such travellers would have to be turned over to Canadian Immigration to return them.

If it wasn’t a stop over (ie Pax were starting travel at YYZ), they would surely just be returned landside as they would have had to legally have the right to be in Canada (transit visa not withstanding) anyway?



That person wouldn't be permitted to board the plane in the first place. The passport would be scanned at check-in, and the agent would say, "sorry, you can't board this plane!"

With regards to Americans with a DUI, there is a process to receive permission to enter Canada. A Canadian citizen familiar with the process will have to give more information; however, it involves applying for temporary citizenship. This is how President George W Bush was allowed to visit (even a diplomatic mission wasn't enough to overrule the DUI over the Presidency!), and how Olympic athletes were able to participate in 2010 in Vancouver. I have heard that the process isn't foolproof, in that even those who have the permission can be denied by a Canadian authority, much in the way FIS in the U.S. can deny entry because they're in a bad mood that day to someone with the proper paperwork, but again, I don't have the details.

But a DUI on your record also prohibits an American from even transiting the country. Air Canada told me in no uncertain terms that our proposed ZRH-YVR-SAN flight would NOT be permitted because of my husband's past DUI.

As you yourself say, scanning the Passport at check-in and having the relevant Visa/ESTA doesn't automatically mean the FIS will authorise entry upon arrival to the US (the reasons for inadmissibility are here).

I do think it could theretically be an issue if EK used a techstop was used for going through pre-clearance in this case. Say you've got someone with an ESTA who fails the CBP inspection as it comes to light they were planning to work illegally in the States. CBP deny them entry, and they are then required to enter Canada in YYZ to be repatriated. But, they also have a DUI... At this point, it gets really complicated for the Airline as involving two different Countries. And what if this techstop was in YHZ rather than YYZ, where EK would have no other means of repatriating the Passenger, as they don't normally operate there?

The only scheduled Techstop with Preclearance I can think of is BA1, but it wouldn't really be an issue there as the UK and Ireland are in a common travel area, so anyone who could legally board at LCY [there's no airside transfer there, so anyone boarding would have had to have gone through UK/Irish Immigration at some stage, anyway] could exit at SNN without a requirement for any additional Paperwork than they would have had with them to go to NY.
 
Wednesdayite
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:51 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Bhoy wrote:
I had a further thought about going through pre-clearance at YYZ during a ‘tech stop’ - what would happen if CBP deemed a passenger inadmissible (for Visa reasons or whatever)- if it happened at the US Gateway, they’d be detained, and put back on the Plane back to point of origin. This would presumably be more difficult at YYZ, as presumably such travellers would have to be turned over to Canadian Immigration to return them.

If it wasn’t a stop over (ie Pax were starting travel at YYZ), they would surely just be returned landside as they would have had to legally have the right to be in Canada (transit visa not withstanding) anyway?



That person wouldn't be permitted to board the plane in the first place. The passport would be scanned at check-in, and the agent would say, "sorry, you can't board this plane!"

With regards to Americans with a DUI, there is a process to receive permission to enter Canada. A Canadian citizen familiar with the process will have to give more information; however, it involves applying for temporary citizenship. This is how President George W Bush was allowed to visit (even a diplomatic mission wasn't enough to overrule the DUI over the Presidency!), and how Olympic athletes were able to participate in 2010 in Vancouver. I have heard that the process isn't foolproof, in that even those who have the permission can be denied by a Canadian authority, much in the way FIS in the U.S. can deny entry because they're in a bad mood that day to someone with the proper paperwork, but again, I don't have the details.

But a DUI on your record also prohibits an American from even transiting the country. Air Canada told me in no uncertain terms that our proposed ZRH-YVR-SAN flight would NOT be permitted because of my husband's past DUI.


It’s a temporary residency permit NOT temporary citizenship.

And there is another method. Obtaining a Criminal Rehabilitation finding from the Canadian authorities.
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anrec80
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:34 am

YYZORD wrote:
Does the DXB-IAH flight go through US Preclearance at YYZ?


Not all Canada-USA flights pre-clear. PR and CX tag-ons YVR-JFK did not (customs being cleared in JFK). Flights by Porter from Toronto City airport do not pre-clear either.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:49 am

xwb777 wrote:
Emirates Airline

BTW, applause for spelling that correctly. ;)
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
strfyr51
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:29 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
It sounds like these are day-by-day decisions, and not scheduled tech stops?


If these get scheduled it will present a great opportunity to demand a refund on that no-longer-nonstop non-refundable ticket. U.S. DOT rules allow a refund of nonrefundable tickets if the routing is changed from a non-stop to direct, or direct to a connection.

These stops are beyond the FAA and DOT's scope as the problem was actually caused by the USA In taking out that Iranian General. So? It is what it IS! Besides? Emirates is not a US certificated carrier so the US really has no right to fine them for something WE caused. (rightly or wrongly) Hell! We should leave then Bomb the hell out of Teheran on our WAY OUT!
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Emirates adds tech stops to selected U.S destinations

Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:41 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

That person wouldn't be permitted to board the plane in the first place. The passport would be scanned at check-in, and the agent would say, "sorry, you can't board this plane!"

With regards to Americans with a DUI, there is a process to receive permission to enter Canada. A Canadian citizen familiar with the process will have to give more information; however, it involves applying for temporary citizenship. This is how President George W Bush was allowed to visit (even a diplomatic mission wasn't enough to overrule the DUI over the Presidency!), and how Olympic athletes were able to participate in 2010 in Vancouver. I have heard that the process isn't foolproof, in that even those who have the permission can be denied by a Canadian authority, much in the way FIS in the U.S. can deny entry because they're in a bad mood that day to someone with the proper paperwork, but again, I don't have the details.

But a DUI on your record also prohibits an American from even transiting the country. Air Canada told me in no uncertain terms that our proposed ZRH-YVR-SAN flight would NOT be permitted because of my husband's past DUI.


I have "a friend" who had a DUI in the early 2000s, and he goes to Canada 3-4 times a year (probably 30-40 times since the DUI). Never once has it been mentioned. Entered both via air and driving (4 different border crossing locations).

The Canadian Gov't website says they *may* deny you for any criminal offense (incl. DUI), it does not say they *will* deny you. I don't doubt that Canada (and any other country) reserves the right to deny someone due to their criminal record, but I suppose it's mostly up to the person who's admitting you. If you show up at their booth intoxicated and have a history of DUI, it's prob not going to go well.
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