Airbus A320 Family P2F News and Discussion Thread

QF744ER · Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:38 am

Believe VH-VWZ has been up there since the 3/1/2021, I’d heard it was undergoing the ‘knife’ but it could very well be stored/maintenance.

I was also under the impression they had 2-3 lines so multiple aircraft could be converted at any given time.

VSMUT · Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:27 am

QF744ER wrote:
Believe VH-VWZ has been up there since the 3/1/2021, I’d heard it was undergoing the ‘knife’ but it could very well be stored/maintenance.

I was also under the impression they had 2-3 lines so multiple aircraft could be converted at any given time.

Right now there is the A320 in conversion at XSP and an A321 for Smartlynx in CAN, the first to be converted there. The second Titan only cleared the line in XSP 2 days ago, so that probably makes 3 lines.

a2b7 · Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:20 pm

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=2 reports that the next A321 to be converted has arrived at XSP on 22 Apr 21. It is MSN 1199 VQ-BOC (lease return from Ural Airlines)

MD80MKE · Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:44 pm

The cargo door cutting seems to have been underway for the A320 P2F prototype according to the tweet below.
https://twitter.com/globalxairlines/sta ... 6817528832

a2b7 · Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:57 pm

cargofacts reports that Precision has obtained certification from the FAA for its A321 conversion, see https://cargofacts.com/allposts/aircraf ... 21-200pcf/

ILNFlyer · Fri May 14, 2021 3:23 pm

From the ATSG investor call: "We also received word last week that the FAA has awarded a Supplemental Type Certificate for freighter conversion of Airbus A321-200 passenger aircraft under our joint venture with Precision."

https://www.atsginc.com/sites/atsg-inc/ ... -final.pdf

solracfunk14 · Thu May 20, 2021 6:04 pm

Azul it's looking to buy 2 A321F/PCF/P2F https://www.aeroin.net/azul-pretende-ut ... miami/?amp

a2b7 · Thu May 20, 2021 9:10 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
From the ATSG investor call: "We also received word last week that the FAA has awarded a Supplemental Type Certificate for freighter conversion of Airbus A321-200 passenger aircraft under our joint venture with Precision."

https://www.atsginc.com/sites/atsg-inc/ ... -final.pdf

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=1 reports that the prototype N322WS (MSN 891) has been delivered to smartLynx Malta ("delivery 18-19may21 SFB-PSM-KEF-MPL")

Diverskii · Fri May 21, 2021 9:44 am

a2b7 wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
From the ATSG investor call: "We also received word last week that the FAA has awarded a Supplemental Type Certificate for freighter conversion of Airbus A321-200 passenger aircraft under our joint venture with Precision."

https://www.atsginc.com/sites/atsg-inc/ ... -final.pdf

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=1 reports that the prototype N322WS (MSN 891) has been delivered to smartLynx Malta ("delivery 18-19may21 SFB-PSM-KEF-MPL")

Yep, the guys from JetTest delivered it

https://twitter.com/JTTsteve/status/1394857341263175685

lightsaber · Fri May 21, 2021 12:28 pm

Diverskii wrote:
a2b7 wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
From the ATSG investor call: "We also received word last week that the FAA has awarded a Supplemental Type Certificate for freighter conversion of Airbus A321-200 passenger aircraft under our joint venture with Precision."

https://www.atsginc.com/sites/atsg-inc/ ... -final.pdf

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=1 reports that the prototype N322WS (MSN 891) has been delivered to smartLynx Malta ("delivery 18-19may21 SFB-PSM-KEF-MPL")

Yep, the guys from JetTest delivered it

https://twitter.com/JTTsteve/status/1394857341263175685

That is great news! We now have two A321CEO vonversions. PCF and P2F. Now for the A320 conversions (there is more stock available).

Lightsaber

Flying-Tiger · Fri May 21, 2021 1:58 pm

Global X will take up to five A321 P2F:

ST Engineering announced Thursday (19 May) the signing of a Letter of Intent by its Aviation Asset Management unit to lease up to five Airbus A321 Passenger-to-Freighter (P2F) aircraft to Global Crossing Airlines (GlobalX). As part of end-to-end Aviation Asset Management solutions, ST Engineering will also provide maintenance services to these aircraft for GlobalX over the period of the lease.

Subject to the signing of definitive agreements, ST Engineering will acquire the five Airbus A321 passenger aircraft on its own or through its joint venture companies, and finance these aircraft through a mix of equity and non-recourse debt. These aircraft will be converted and maintained at ST Engineering’s global facilities, with the first A321 aircraft to be converted in April 2022 and placed on lease in 4Q2022. The remaining four P2F aircraft will be converted and leased to GlobalX progressively.

https://asianaviation.com/st-engineering-signs-loi-to-lease-a321-conversions-to-globalx/

Anyone having an overview how many A321 P2F / PCF conversions have been ordered today, and for whom?

ILNFlyer · Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:12 pm

ATSG has confirmed they have acquired their first two feedstock 321's for conversion. They will be converted at PEMCO, which they own.

https://www.atsginc.com/investors/news- ... -feedstock

lightsaber · Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:14 pm

Flying-Tiger wrote:
Global X will take up to five A321 P2F:

ST Engineering announced Thursday (19 May) the signing of a Letter of Intent by its Aviation Asset Management unit to lease up to five Airbus A321 Passenger-to-Freighter (P2F) aircraft to Global Crossing Airlines (GlobalX). As part of end-to-end Aviation Asset Management solutions, ST Engineering will also provide maintenance services to these aircraft for GlobalX over the period of the lease.

Subject to the signing of definitive agreements, ST Engineering will acquire the five Airbus A321 passenger aircraft on its own or through its joint venture companies, and finance these aircraft through a mix of equity and non-recourse debt. These aircraft will be converted and maintained at ST Engineering’s global facilities, with the first A321 aircraft to be converted in April 2022 and placed on lease in 4Q2022. The remaining four P2F aircraft will be converted and leased to GlobalX progressively.

https://asianaviation.com/st-engineering-signs-loi-to-lease-a321-conversions-to-globalx/

Anyone having an overview how many A321 P2F / PCF conversions have been ordered today, and for whom?

How many have been converted too? I do not know of a summary.

oldJoe · Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:58 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Flying-Tiger wrote:
Global X will take up to five A321 P2F:

ST Engineering announced Thursday (19 May) the signing of a Letter of Intent by its Aviation Asset Management unit to lease up to five Airbus A321 Passenger-to-Freighter (P2F) aircraft to Global Crossing Airlines (GlobalX). As part of end-to-end Aviation Asset Management solutions, ST Engineering will also provide maintenance services to these aircraft for GlobalX over the period of the lease.

Subject to the signing of definitive agreements, ST Engineering will acquire the five Airbus A321 passenger aircraft on its own or through its joint venture companies, and finance these aircraft through a mix of equity and non-recourse debt. These aircraft will be converted and maintained at ST Engineering’s global facilities, with the first A321 aircraft to be converted in April 2022 and placed on lease in 4Q2022. The remaining four P2F aircraft will be converted and leased to GlobalX progressively.

https://asianaviation.com/st-engineering-signs-loi-to-lease-a321-conversions-to-globalx/

Anyone having an overview how many A321 P2F / PCF conversions have been ordered today, and for whom?

How many have been converted too? I do not know of a summary.

AFAIK four are delivered
1x P2F Qantas Freight , 2x P2F Titan Airways and 1x PCF SmartLynx Malta ( the second one for them will be a P2F )
I believe that there are seven more in conversion ( 5x P2F and 2x PCF )
plus one the prototype of Sine Draco which they call SDF

https://www.aircargonews.net/freighters-world/sine-draco-selects-ascent-aviation-for-a321-conversion-project/

India's IndiGo Airlines to add four A321(P2F)s

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/102897-indias-indigo-airlines-to-add-four-a321p2fs

GTLK Europe has four P2F on order

https://www.payloadasia.com/aircraft-manufacturers/st-engineering-efw-sign-a321p2f-orders-for-irish-lessor/

and more I`m sure .......

MD80MKE · Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:05 am

lightsaber wrote:
Flying-Tiger wrote:
Global X will take up to five A321 P2F:

ST Engineering announced Thursday (19 May) the signing of a Letter of Intent by its Aviation Asset Management unit to lease up to five Airbus A321 Passenger-to-Freighter (P2F) aircraft to Global Crossing Airlines (GlobalX). As part of end-to-end Aviation Asset Management solutions, ST Engineering will also provide maintenance services to these aircraft for GlobalX over the period of the lease.

Subject to the signing of definitive agreements, ST Engineering will acquire the five Airbus A321 passenger aircraft on its own or through its joint venture companies, and finance these aircraft through a mix of equity and non-recourse debt. These aircraft will be converted and maintained at ST Engineering’s global facilities, with the first A321 aircraft to be converted in April 2022 and placed on lease in 4Q2022. The remaining four P2F aircraft will be converted and leased to GlobalX progressively.

https://asianaviation.com/st-engineering-signs-loi-to-lease-a321-conversions-to-globalx/

Anyone having an overview how many A321 P2F / PCF conversions have been ordered today, and for whom?

How many have been converted too? I do not know of a summary.

Here's a list I'd personally refer to sometimes. Although they seem just to record what skyliner/ps.net says.
https://a380.boards.net/thread/1179/a320-family-p2f

oldJoe · Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:49 am

MD80MKE wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Flying-Tiger wrote:
Global X will take up to five A321 P2F:

https://asianaviation.com/st-engineering-signs-loi-to-lease-a321-conversions-to-globalx/

Anyone having an overview how many A321 P2F / PCF conversions have been ordered today, and for whom?

How many have been converted too? I do not know of a summary.

Here's a list I'd personally refer to sometimes. Although they seem just to record what skyliner/ps.net says.
https://a380.boards.net/thread/1179/a320-family-p2f

I also go to this site a lot and believe that they are very trustworthy even though I am not a member. We airplane crazy all just want to know the latest news, be it A or B or whoever

Okcflyer · Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:01 am

Could someone post payload range and pallet position counts?

Early A321’s
Later A321’s
B738P2F
B752P2F
B767P2F

Do the A321’s being converted today have the newer/improved V2500’s and the other pips which unlocked its full potential?

RoyalBrunei757 · Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:43 am

More A321 conversion coming.

ATSG to add A321P2Fs
https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/atsg ... OZNLFp0SBo

Latvia's SmartLynx to add four more A321 freighters
http://airsoc.com/articles/view/id/60dd ... freighters

lightsaber · Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:32 pm

MD80MKE wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Flying-Tiger wrote:
Global X will take up to five A321 P2F:

https://asianaviation.com/st-engineering-signs-loi-to-lease-a321-conversions-to-globalx/

Anyone having an overview how many A321 P2F / PCF conversions have been ordered today, and for whom?

How many have been converted too? I do not know of a summary.

Here's a list I'd personally refer to sometimes. Although they seem just to record what skyliner/ps.net says.
https://a380.boards.net/thread/1179/a320-family-p2f

That'd a great list! Thank you. I shall follow, perhaps quarterly.

Lightsaber

whiplash · Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:04 am

Do we know all MSNs that are undergoing or are going to go under the knife to start their new lives as freighters?

T4thH · Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:05 am

I am a little bit surprised, it got missed:

Lufthansa Cargo deploys two Airbus A321s permanently converted into freighters

Will be operated by Lufthansa CityLine on behalf of Lufthansa Cargo. Service to be started in 2022.

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/newsroom/releases/lufthansa-cargo-deploys-two-airbus-a321s-permanently-converted-into-freighters.html

MO11 · Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:21 pm

Cargo Aircraft Management bought VP-CCH (ex G-TCDV) from Aviation Capital Group yesterday.

oldJoe · Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:17 am

T4thH wrote:
I am a little bit surprised, it got missed:

Lufthansa Cargo deploys two Airbus A321s permanently converted into freighters

Will be operated by Lufthansa CityLine on behalf of Lufthansa Cargo. Service to be started in 2022.

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/newsroom/releases/lufthansa-cargo-deploys-two-airbus-a321s-permanently-converted-into-freighters.html

The first is MSN 3504 from Eurowings already in XSP and to my surprise the youngest to be converted so far ( 13.2 years old )

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/airbus-a321-200-d-aeuc-eurowings/3xw15l?refresh=1

RoyalBrunei757 · Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:53 am

whiplash wrote:
Do we know all MSNs that are undergoing or are going to go under the knife to start their new lives as freighters?

As shared previously, I use this website for latest information: https://a380.boards.net/thread/1179/a320-family-p2f

For those interested, here are some corporate borchures for A320P2F/A321P2F:
Airbus/ EFW/ ST Aerospace: https://www.elbeflugzeugwerke.com/filea ... Screen.pdf
Precision Aircraft Solution: https://www.precisionaircraft.com/a321-200pcf-freighter

Here is some quick analysis of current A321P2F market, dated from May 2021: https://www.freightwaves.com/news/trans ... -freighter

whiplash · Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:28 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
whiplash wrote:
Do we know all MSNs that are undergoing or are going to go under the knife to start their new lives as freighters?

As shared previously, I use this website for latest information: https://a380.boards.net/thread/1179/a320-family-p2f

For those interested, here are some corporate borchures for A320P2F/A321P2F:
Airbus/ EFW/ ST Aerospace: https://www.elbeflugzeugwerke.com/filea ... Screen.pdf
Precision Aircraft Solution: https://www.precisionaircraft.com/a321-200pcf-freighter

Here is some quick analysis of current A321P2F market, dated from May 2021: https://www.freightwaves.com/news/trans ... -freighter

Thanks for the link.

a2b7 · Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:46 am

skyliner-aviation.de reports that the first A321P2F converted at CAN (MSN 1017), which goes to smartLynx Airlines Malta, was delivered 15-16 Aug 21 CAN-DMK-DWC-MLA-MPL. I wonder whether it will be painted at MPL.

RoyalBrunei757 · Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:21 am

News Update: BBAM adds another 18 A321P2F from its pax fleet portfolio

https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/bbam ... CyOGGhxXxw

All to be converted by end of 2025. With this latest order, EFW has now also sold-out its conversion capacity for the A320/A321 until the end of that year. Very solid demand for A321P2F!

alberchico · Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:45 pm

Considering that this aircraft is already short legged compared with the 757, why haven't any of these cargo conversions been retrofitted with the modern winglets that are available ? It seems like it would make sense to squeeze every last drop of range from the A321.

Polot · Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:49 pm

alberchico wrote:
Considering that this aircraft is already short legged compared with the 757, why haven't any of these cargo conversions been retrofitted with the modern winglets that are available ? It seems like it would make sense to squeeze every last drop of range from the A321.

All the ones converted so far either can’t accept sharklets (less than ~MSN1200) or need extensive retrofit (MSN1200-MSN4500ish, above that it is plug and play). Not sure if P2F with sharklets modifications is certified.

Doing the extensive retrofit is probably not worth it if the cargo airline is planning on just doing short hops or have low utilization with the frame. Even many pax airlines have found the extensive retrofit difficult to justify.

Revelation · Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:13 pm

alberchico wrote:
Considering that this aircraft is already short legged compared with the 757, why haven't any of these cargo conversions been retrofitted with the modern winglets that are available ? It seems like it would make sense to squeeze every last drop of range from the A321.

Do we know if a trade study has been made?

The winglets can cost anywhere in the range $0.5M - $2M from what google results I could find. $1M seems like a reasonable ball park figure. They add on-going maintenance costs and concerns. They add weight so reduce payload, and payload is very important for the freighter market. As mentioned above, early A320 family aircraft need a lot of reinforcement to be able to accept winglets. So, the operator would have to pay a lot for them up front, ad hope they fly enough hours per day to earn back their cost through reduced fuel burn, after factoring in any reduction in payload due to the winglets or the wing reinforcement needed to support the winglets. Another factor is does the frame have enough hours/cycles left on it to hope to earn back the money spent on winglets. I honestly don't know the answer.

FX never did put winglets on 757s AFAIK, and IIRC they even removed some off airplanes they acquired that had them, as the STC did not support that configuration.

a2b7 · Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:16 pm

The ramp up of the EFW/ST Aero conversion program continues: A321 MSN 2903 from SmartLynx arrived for conversion at SAT on 22 Oct according to skyliner-aviation.de. This should be the first A321 to undergo conversion there.

B6JFKH81 · Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:42 am

Revelation wrote:
alberchico wrote:
Considering that this aircraft is already short legged compared with the 757, why haven't any of these cargo conversions been retrofitted with the modern winglets that are available ? It seems like it would make sense to squeeze every last drop of range from the A321.

Do we know if a trade study has been made?

The winglets can cost anywhere in the range $0.5M - $2M from what google results I could find. $1M seems like a reasonable ball park figure. They add on-going maintenance costs and concerns. They add weight so reduce payload, and payload is very important for the freighter market. As mentioned above, early A320 family aircraft need a lot of reinforcement to be able to accept winglets. So, the operator would have to pay a lot for them up front, ad hope they fly enough hours per day to earn back their cost through reduced fuel burn, after factoring in any reduction in payload due to the winglets or the wing reinforcement needed to support the winglets. Another factor is does the frame have enough hours/cycles left on it to hope to earn back the money spent on winglets. I honestly don't know the answer.

FX never did put winglets on 757s AFAIK, and IIRC they even removed some off airplanes they acquired that had them, as the STC did not support that configuration.

B6 is a prime example. They performed all the "plug and play" conversions on the frames that they could and then went to modify additional aircraft that would need the structural work on the wings. After a few conversions, they cancelled the entire modification line and sold off the modification kits. I worked one or two of those modifications, it was INTENSE. It is a very heavy modification and requires very specific stress jacking that would halt work on the fuselage, which I think would dramatically increase the time it would take to do the conversion. I don't know if there would be an ROI on the higher hour/cycle frames that are being converted.

INFINITI329 · Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:39 am

Is there a pallet available for below deck cargo or is the ld3-45 the only option?

Someone83 · Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:50 am

2 more A321 freighters to Smartlynx, taking their fleet to 8 by the end of 2022

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/smar ... rgo-fleet/

Clydenairways · Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:51 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
Is there a pallet available for below deck cargo or is the ld3-45 the only option?

Yes i have seen pallets loaded into a320's before, not just containers.

Cardude2 · Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:03 pm

People of this forum, I like to welcome you to the new A320 P2F completed conversion, (Its alive)

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/P2F/6652975

oldJoe · Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:06 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
People of this forum, I like to welcome you to the new A320 P2F completed conversion, (Its alive)

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/P2F/6652975

Nice to see the first A320P2F and let`s asume :
Basic IndiGo livery without titles , a german flag on the tail fin and also a German reg , converted in Singapore XSP quite a history. What next ???

ben7x · Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:28 pm

Don’t know why one would choose an A320P2F over an A321P2F?

zeke · Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:37 pm

ben7x wrote:
Don’t know why one would choose an A320P2F over an A321P2F?

Be cheaper to buy the base aircraft and cheaper to convert and can do the most of the same work.

oldJoe · Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:39 pm

ben7x wrote:
Don’t know why one would choose an A320P2F over an A321P2F?

For some airlines size matters. Why should any airline prefer a Saab 340 or ATR 42/72 freighter over an A321P2F if they can`t fill them ??? I remember back in the day when DHL was in talks with Airbus for a factory build A320 but Aurbus didn`t bite because it was too unique and no other airline would buy it

Revelation · Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:03 pm

ben7x wrote:
Don’t know why one would choose an A320P2F over an A321P2F?

Shorter aircraft is going to be lighter than the longer one, without corresponding reduction in max takeoff weight, therefore can lift more fuel+payload.

If you need volume you go A321, if you need payload and/or range, you go A320.

mxaxai · Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:13 pm

Photo of the first flight on the front page today:

The customer is reportedly Vaayu Group. They don't seem to have much if any experience operating commercial aircraft.

oldJoe · Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:28 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Photo of the first flight on the front page today:

The customer is reportedly Vaayu Group. They don't seem to have much if any experience operating commercial aircraft.

What they are going to do with this bird ? Defentily not present and showing it up in a museum. Any customer ?

Cardude2 · Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:02 am

thanks mods for the rename

MD80MKE · Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:14 pm

Precision announced a new line at HAECO Xiamen. First frame induction next month.
https://www.flightglobal.com/aerospace/ ... 35.article

danipawa · Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:41 am

any news on first A321F for Avion Express?

Someone83 · Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:54 pm

Skyliner report til former AerLingus aircraft is being converted

Airbus A321 -211 926 EI-CPE Aer Lingus ferried 27jan22 FNI-QLA prior P2F-convrsion ex D-AVZQ

AlexA340B777 · Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:16 am

Could not find anything about D-AEUB A321 cn-1994 mentioned here, seems that one is another P2F frame which is currently being ferried:

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4

Does anyone know, for which company that frame will be flying in the future?

DUSZRH · Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:54 pm

AlexA340B777 wrote:
Could not find anything about D-AEUB A321 cn-1994 mentioned here, seems that one is another P2F frame which is currently being ferried:

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4

Does anyone know, for which company that frame will be flying in the future?

Probably LH Cargo/Cityline.

Flying-Tiger · Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:55 pm

Hasn´t been reported in this thread to far:

- Titan Airways will convert another two A321 at EWF to have a fleet of "at least five" A321P2F in 2023. Source is Cargofacts.
- Japan Airlines will take three A321P2F to be operated by Jetstar and operated for Yamato Holdings as domestic freigthers by 2024. Source are various news outlets.

Seems that the A321P2Fs are starting to get tracktion in the market.

Anyone having an overview how many are operating today, and how many have been ordered so far?

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