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Re: A321 P2F first flight

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:20 pm
by MD80MKE
QF744ER wrote:
Does any know the MSN of the next A321 that will be converted for Express Freighters tbf Qantas?

Had read that JQ A321’s VH-VWY and -VWZ were to undergo conversion.


MSN 1408, VH-VWY as far as know will come from KeyStone Holding. THE LOI was signed earlier this year. Scheduled to be re-delivered to Qantas Freight by the end of 2021. Not sure if the timeline has changed though after this pandemic. Don't know about VH-VWZ.
https://centreforaviation.com/news/qant ... p2f-975499

ps. I think the article is behind the paywall. But the title tells the story :)

Re: A321 P2F first flight

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:11 am
by QF744ER
MD80MKE wrote:
QF744ER wrote:
Does any know the MSN of the next A321 that will be converted for Express Freighters tbf Qantas?

Had read that JQ A321’s VH-VWY and -VWZ were to undergo conversion.


MSN 1408, VH-VWY as far as know will come from KeyStone Holding. THE LOI was signed earlier this year. Scheduled to be re-delivered to Qantas Freight by the end of 2021. Not sure if the timeline has changed though after this pandemic. Don't know about VH-VWZ.
https://centreforaviation.com/news/qant ... p2f-975499

ps. I think the article is behind the paywall. But the title tells the story :)


Cheers for that info, would appear then with the 2 frames currently undergoing conversion for ZT and assuming that the line in XSP can only accomodate 2 possibly 3 conversions simultaneously that the next Express Freighters/QF #2 A321PCF is still some time away.

Like the multitude of B767’s we’re watching being converted to BDSF’s, get the feeling this is going to be an exciting thread to watch.

Re: A321 P2F first flight

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:22 am
by MD80MKE
QF744ER wrote:
MD80MKE wrote:
QF744ER wrote:
Does any know the MSN of the next A321 that will be converted for Express Freighters tbf Qantas?

Had read that JQ A321’s VH-VWY and -VWZ were to undergo conversion.


MSN 1408, VH-VWY as far as know will come from KeyStone Holding. THE LOI was signed earlier this year. Scheduled to be re-delivered to Qantas Freight by the end of 2021. Not sure if the timeline has changed though after this pandemic. Don't know about VH-VWZ.
https://centreforaviation.com/news/qant ... p2f-975499

ps. I think the article is behind the paywall. But the title tells the story :)


Cheers for that info, would appear then with the 2 frames currently undergoing conversion for ZT and assuming that the line in XSP can only accomodate 2 possibly 3 conversions simultaneously that the next Express Freighters/QF #2 A321PCF is still some time away.

Like the multitude of B767’s we’re watching being converted to BDSF’s, get the feeling this is going to be an exciting thread to watch.


For sure exciting times ahead. Also EFW was planning to start up a A321 conversion line in Guangzhou using ST engineerings facility this year for a capacity of 2 aircrafts concurrently. But obviously that plan has been delayed because of the COVID. Vallair apparently was planing to have their next two done in Guangzhou, but they could be falling back to XSP line now.

Re: A321 P2F first flight

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:14 pm
by MD80MKE
The Precision A321PCF prototype (MSN 891) was seen doing taxi test in Orlando the other day. Will probably be in the air for certification tests pretty soon.
https://twitter.com/CargoFacts/status/1 ... 0120682498

Re: A321 P2F first flight

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:54 pm
by Newark727
MD80MKE wrote:
The Precision A321PCF prototype (MSN 891) was seen doing taxi test in Orlando the other day. Will probably be in the air for certification tests pretty soon.
https://twitter.com/CargoFacts/status/1 ... 0120682498


Doesn't look like they moved the L1 door on this one.

Re: A321 P2F first flight

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:02 pm
by wjcandee
You are correct. Precision retains the existing L1/R1 doors. https://www.precisionaircraft.com/a321/

Both versions carry the same number of pallets (14). Precision retains an operable rear door (L4), whereas EFW deactivates them all. Interesting to see the differences. I haven't seen a cockpit sketch of the EFW version, so I don't know whether it is smaller, which the smaller and more-forward crew door would suggest that it is.

Re: A321 P2F first flight

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:31 am
by wjcandee
Okay, I think I figured out the moving-the-door thing. This is just an EWAG, but...on the A320, perhaps EFW has to move the crew door, so the cargo door can be placed sufficiently-forward of the wing/engine. On the A321, there's more room there, so perhaps moving the door (and restricting the size of the cockpit) isn't strictly-speaking necessary. In order to have commonality between the two, EFW decided to have the cockpit be the same in both, and thus moved the door on the A321P2F. Because ATSG/Precision are only converting the A321, they can leave the passenger door where it is, and offer a larger cockpit, with the full existing forward lav, etc.

Again, only an EWAG but this makes some sense.

Re: A321 P2F first flight

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:04 am
by MD80MKE
From what I have heard, the EFW approach to move the L1 door forward and make it smaller was due to cost caving. Compared to making extensive structural modifications in the back of fuselage, EFW decided to rather make mods up front. If one compares the EFW brochure with the Precision one, it's clearly visible that the very first container on EFW frame is where the original L1 door was, but on Precision frame, the first ULD is positioned right after the L1 door, meaning that the EFW frame's COG is likely more forward.

Re: A321 P2F first flight

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:22 am
by wjcandee
MD80MKE wrote:
From what I have heard, the EFW approach to move the L1 door forward and make it smaller was due to cost caving. Compared to making extensive structural modifications in the back of fuselage, EFW decided to rather make mods up front. If one compares the EFW brochure with the Precision one, it's clearly visible that the very first container on EFW frame is where the original L1 door was, but on Precision frame, the first ULD is positioned right after the L1 door, meaning that the EFW frame's COG is likely more forward.


Can you elaborate a little bit? What were the structural modifications that Precision has to make in the rear that EFW doesn't? I'm not challenging you, just wanting to learn more and understand better.

Re: A321 P2F first flight

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:04 am
by MD80MKE
wjcandee wrote:
MD80MKE wrote:
From what I have heard, the EFW approach to move the L1 door forward and make it smaller was due to cost caving. Compared to making extensive structural modifications in the back of fuselage, EFW decided to rather make mods up front. If one compares the EFW brochure with the Precision one, it's clearly visible that the very first container on EFW frame is where the original L1 door was, but on Precision frame, the first ULD is positioned right after the L1 door, meaning that the EFW frame's COG is likely more forward.


Can you elaborate a little bit? What were the structural modifications that Precision has to make in the rear that EFW doesn't? I'm not challenging you, just wanting to learn more and understand better.


Totally understand where you are coming from on these questions. Unfortunately, those details currently can only be answered by the engineers working for the two houses and in the future, by the operators once they are put into service. The information I've heard is not from the insiders either. Apologize for not having concrete sources/links.

Re: A321 P2F first flight

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:07 am
by QF744ER
Interestingly the first EFW converted A321PCF, which we know is destined for Express Freighters/QF is now shown as stored in XSP.

Still yet too see a photo of it post painting into the touted QF/Australia Post livery.

Re: A321 P2F first flight

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:39 pm
by N91
Any update/photo for the Qantas A321p2f?