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SpaceshipDC10
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LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:28 pm

Last year LYS has been used by almost 11,4 million passengers with an overall growth of 6,4%. Domestic and International growth was +6,3% and +6,6% respectively.

On the international side, Armenia (+66,9%), Egypt (+171,8%), Israël (+24,8%) and Moroco (+23,4%) recorded the strongest change in traffic, while the number of passengers travelling to Montréal grew 6,4%, a route that is served during summer by both AC and TS. The former will add a sixth frequency this year.

https://www.air-journal.fr/2020-01-21-a ... 17705.html

Between 2010 and 2019, passengers traffic at LYS has grown 47%, with the strongest rise beginning in 2016.
 
Skyblue39
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:42 pm

What is so special about Lyon? Am I missing something here? Other European airports such as Athens, Tegel and Düsseldorf reported larger growth.
 
MastaHanky
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:48 pm

If I remember correctly, shortly after the DL-AF joint venture was approved DL started JFK-LYS on a 752. It didn't last very long. I'm kind of surprised they haven't given it another go, given the current economy.
 
hsuthe19
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:56 pm

Skyblue39 wrote:
What is so special about Lyon? Am I missing something here? Other European airports such as Athens, Tegel and Düsseldorf reported larger growth.


Might be wrong but Lyon is the second largest city in France.
MastaHanky wrote:
If I remember correctly, shortly after the DL-AF joint venture was approved DL started JFK-LYS on a 752. It didn't last very long. I'm kind of surprised they haven't given it another go, given the current economy.


I think JFK-LYS could work well, too.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:36 pm

Skyblue39 wrote:
What is so special about Lyon? Am I missing something here?


It depends on what you really mean with your questions.

hsuthe19 wrote:
Might be wrong but Lyon is the second largest city in France.


I believe it's still Marseille, however on the tourist side Lyon must be second.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:13 am

Skyblue39 wrote:
What is so special about Lyon? Am I missing something here? Other European airports such as Athens, Tegel and Dseldorf reported larger growth.


Lyon is significant, as it was a smaller market in the past. As the city as grown, made more investments in tourism and tourists have caught wind of it, it has become more of a destination, so it is useful to track growth at LYS in terms of air passengers. Lyon air traffic to points in France and Italy has traditionally been threatened by the TGV and other HSR offerings, so it's important that air carriers continue to avoid losing market share to the train and offer a competitive product. That domestic traffic has grown by over 6.4% YOY is particularly of note.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:14 am

One westbound flight would be great... EK, TK and soon QR serve Asia and Africa very well. Just a flight to NYC at least please...
 
Blerg
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:01 am

How much of a competitor (realistically speaking) is GVA to LYS? Both France and Switzerland have relatively high operating costs so it would be interesting to know what each airport is doing to attract customers.

By the way, who operates flights from Lyon to Armenia?
 
runway23
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:34 am

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
I believe it's still Marseille, however on the tourist side Lyon must be second.


Marseille city only is larger population wise than Lyon, but the metropolitan area of Lyon has a population of 400k more people. So by all means Lyon is the 2nd city of France and has a lot more tourism than Marseille.
 
runway23
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:37 am

Blerg wrote:
How much of a competitor (realistically speaking) is GVA to LYS? Both France and Switzerland have relatively high operating costs so it would be interesting to know what each airport is doing to attract customers.

By the way, who operates flights from Lyon to Armenia?


Lots of studies have shown that there is very little overlap between the two. GVA is pretty much running at capacity now and limited expansion wise (especially following the recent vote).

Lyon is a very different case - airport in the middle of nowhere, open 24 hours, two runways, pretty much unlimited room for expansion.
 
Blerg
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:39 am

runway23 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
How much of a competitor (realistically speaking) is GVA to LYS? Both France and Switzerland have relatively high operating costs so it would be interesting to know what each airport is doing to attract customers.

By the way, who operates flights from Lyon to Armenia?


Lots of studies have shown that there is very little overlap between the two. GVA is pretty much running at capacity now and limited expansion wise (especially following the recent vote).

Lyon is a very different case - airport in the middle of nowhere, open 24 hours, two runways, pretty much unlimited room for expansion.


I asked because very often you can read comments how GVA is also attracting passengers from Lyon and its surrounding areas. I was just wondering how big of an impact it really is. Interesting to see that is little to none.
 
SRGVA67
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:40 am

Blerg wrote:
How much of a competitor (realistically speaking) is GVA to LYS? Both France and Switzerland have relatively high operating costs so it would be interesting to know what each airport is doing to attract customers.

By the way, who operates flights from Lyon to Armenia?

I don't know about LYS, but if you have followed events in Geneva lately, you may know that unfortunately a referendum against uncontrolled growth at GVA has been accepted by the population. Nobody knows what that means yet , but one thing is sure that the local government will have to act and introduce a control mechanism. Therefore GVA will definitely not try to attract more lowcost traffic and will not stop ski charters from moving to LYS or GNB. The European network is pretty comprehensive considering that GVA doesn't have a homebase legacy carrier and the population of the city is 200 000 only, the canton itself 500 000. GVA will try to target a few longhaul carriers, in particular to Asia but will certainly not try to attract more European flights. There may be no love lost between the 2 airports, but competition is very minimal only, in fact there is even talk about cooperating.
 
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GCT64
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:14 am

Blerg wrote:
How much of a competitor (realistically speaking) is GVA to LYS? Both France and Switzerland have relatively high operating costs so it would be interesting to know what each airport is doing to attract customers.


We have business travel to Grenoble from UK and US and we do use both GVA & LYS (and Paris) to get to Grenoble (fly then train). Sadly the direct flights to GNB rarely fit our travel needs.
From London LYS tends to be a better choice, from Scotland GVA usually works better.
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
Blerg
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:33 am

GCT64 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
How much of a competitor (realistically speaking) is GVA to LYS? Both France and Switzerland have relatively high operating costs so it would be interesting to know what each airport is doing to attract customers.


We have business travel to Grenoble from UK and US and we do use both GVA & LYS (and Paris) to get to Grenoble (fly then train). Sadly the direct flights to GNB rarely fit our travel needs.
From London LYS tends to be a better choice, from Scotland GVA usually works better.


Interesting about the comparison between London and Scotland. I suppose you are referring to non-stop flights as connections should work about the same for both cities via Paris.
 
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GCT64
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:41 am

Blerg wrote:
GCT64 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
How much of a competitor (realistically speaking) is GVA to LYS? Both France and Switzerland have relatively high operating costs so it would be interesting to know what each airport is doing to attract customers.


We have business travel to Grenoble from UK and US and we do use both GVA & LYS (and Paris) to get to Grenoble (fly then train). Sadly the direct flights to GNB rarely fit our travel needs.
From London LYS tends to be a better choice, from Scotland GVA usually works better.


Interesting about the comparison between London and Scotland. I suppose you are referring to non-stop flights as connections should work about the same for both cities via Paris.


Yes, non-stop from UK to GVA or LYS. Slow and expensive to connect in Paris. US colleagues tend to fly to Paris and just take the TGV from there.
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
Toinou
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:53 am

Blerg wrote:
runway23 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
How much of a competitor (realistically speaking) is GVA to LYS? Both France and Switzerland have relatively high operating costs so it would be interesting to know what each airport is doing to attract customers.

By the way, who operates flights from Lyon to Armenia?


Lots of studies have shown that there is very little overlap between the two. GVA is pretty much running at capacity now and limited expansion wise (especially following the recent vote).

Lyon is a very different case - airport in the middle of nowhere, open 24 hours, two runways, pretty much unlimited room for expansion.


I asked because very often you can read comments how GVA is also attracting passengers from Lyon and its surrounding areas. I was just wondering how big of an impact it really is. Interesting to see that is little to none.


I can talk about the movement of people from Switzerland going to LYS. It is very limited. Very few destinations offered from LYS are not served from GVA. The journey is quite long too, especially by public tranport. Maybe price could be cheaper from LYS but it will not offset all the downsides for Swiss people. The only example I have in mind about someone who went from Switzerland to LYS for a plane was a relative who had to go to an Algerian city (can't remember which one) which had flights from LYS but not GVA.

SRGVA67 wrote:
I don't know about LYS, but if you have followed events in Geneva lately, you may know that unfortunately a referendum against uncontrolled growth at GVA has been accepted by the population. Nobody knows what that means yet , but one thing is sure that the local government will have to act and introduce a control mechanism. Therefore GVA will definitely not try to attract more lowcost traffic and will not stop ski charters from moving to LYS or GNB. The European network is pretty comprehensive considering that GVA doesn't have a homebase legacy carrier and the population of the city is 200 000 only, the canton itself 500 000. GVA will try to target a few longhaul carriers, in particular to Asia but will certainly not try to attract more European flights. There may be no love lost between the 2 airports, but competition is very minimal only, in fact there is even talk about cooperating.


The population of the Geneva urban is much larger than that. The count is made uneasy by the fact it is spanning over two countries. The Greater Geneva region is a bit under a million people (500'000 for Geneva canton, 100'000 for Nyon district, at least 300'000 for the french part of Geneva urban area (which includes parts of Haute-Savoie and Ain departments)).
The catching area for GVA is even much larger, as it includes large parts of western Switzerland. The total should be between 2 and 3 million people.

That being said, I wonder how "unfortunate" was this referendum. This is an airport situated in a very cramped and populated area. So I guess it is normal to wonder how much the airport has to grow and with which quality of growth. An issue that is clearly very different in LYS.
 
runway23
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:59 am

GCT64 wrote:

Yes, non-stop from UK to GVA or LYS. Slow and expensive to connect in Paris. US colleagues tend to fly to Paris and just take the TGV from there.


Worth also pointing out that there are no flights between Paris and Grenoble. That said seeing how far GNB is from Grenoble (45km) and that LYS is only 90km from Grenoble and connected by TGV (takes a little over an hour and runs every 2 hours) or 3 hours from Gare de Lyon in Paris to Grenoble it makes sense that GNB isn't linked by air to ORY/CDG.
 
DNDTUF
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:56 am

Blerg wrote:
runway23 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
How much of a competitor (realistically speaking) is GVA to LYS? Both France and Switzerland have relatively high operating costs so it would be interesting to know what each airport is doing to attract customers.

By the way, who operates flights from Lyon to Armenia?


Lots of studies have shown that there is very little overlap between the two. GVA is pretty much running at capacity now and limited expansion wise (especially following the recent vote).

Lyon is a very different case - airport in the middle of nowhere, open 24 hours, two runways, pretty much unlimited room for expansion.


I asked because very often you can read comments how GVA is also attracting passengers from Lyon and its surrounding areas. I was just wondering how big of an impact it really is. Interesting to see that is little to none.


I live in Lyon and almost always use GVA. I find flights are almost always cheaper from GVA and the airport is so much more organised than LYS. Even if flights are a little more expensive from GVA, I would still prefer it over LYS as I find the passenger experience to be so much better. LYS has rude staff, slow and incompetent security and huge lines at passport control when arriving from a non-schengen country. Although GVA is cramped and a bit run down, the staff are great and you rarely take more than 10 mins to pass through security. There's also a direct bus from Lyon centre to GVA airport for as little as €10.
Nemo me impune lacessit
 
workhorse
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:58 pm

runway23 wrote:
Worth also pointing out that there are no flights between Paris and Grenoble.


There used to be! Flown by Air France/Régional on an E145, twice daily. These were the days...

runway23 wrote:
Worth also pointing out that there are no flights between Paris and Grenoble. That said seeing how far GNB is from Grenoble (45km) and that LYS is only 90km from Grenoble and connected by TGV (takes a little over an hour and runs every 2 hours) or 3 hours from Gare de Lyon in Paris to Grenoble it makes sense that GNB isn't linked by air to ORY/CDG.


I have always wondered if it could be done to transform Le Versoud into an airport. The runway is short but maybe it could be extended to make it suitable for an ATR. And there's the railway line just behind the entrance, wouldn't be too difficult to build a small platform and make Grenoble-Chambéry trains stop there. Of course, with current political climate, it won't happen.
 
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jsnww81
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:56 pm

Good news. Lyon is a beautiful city that is (rightfully) finally getting the tourist attention it deserves. Gorgeous setting, lots of history and great cuisine.

LYS seems to have quite a bit of free capacity, at least on the terminal side, since the new addition opened a few years ago. I was there in November and large sections of the older terminals didn't look like they were getting used much. Should be able to absorb the growth fairly easily.
 
Skyblue39
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:10 pm

This “growth” only amounted to about 700K passengers YOY.
I am not sure why Lyon is so special to warrant a new thread about this? It is also only the 50th busiest European Airport.

There are far more busier airports than Lyon, which have experience double digit growth YOY.....
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:43 pm

Skyblue39 wrote:
This “growth” only amounted to about 700K passengers YOY.
I am not sure why Lyon is so special to warrant a new thread about this? It is also only the 50th busiest European Airport.

There are far more busier airports than Lyon, which have experience double digit growth YOY.....


Of course, if your thing is larger airports with lots more passengers and growth, LYS may seem a dwarf. However some members on this forum may not be interested only by the largest or most trending topics. Some may be interested or curious enough to know what exists beyond the largest and trending, and nobody is forcing you to read what does not interest you. LYS is just one airport on the map amongst many others.
 
Blerg
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:03 pm

Skyblue39 wrote:
This “growth” only amounted to about 700K passengers YOY.
I am not sure why Lyon is so special to warrant a new thread about this? It is also only the 50th busiest European Airport.

There are far more busier airports than Lyon, which have experience double digit growth YOY.....


If you don't think Lyon warrants a thread of its own then why visit it or write such pointless comments? Let us who are interested in discussing it. Personally I find these threads far more interesting than those endless aviation forums for each state in the US or for their college sports tournament charters but you don't see me h8in' on there.
 
Skyblue39
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:22 pm

Blerg wrote:
Skyblue39 wrote:
This “growth” only amounted to about 700K passengers YOY.
I am not sure why Lyon is so special to warrant a new thread about this? It is also only the 50th busiest European Airport.

There are far more busier airports than Lyon, which have experience double digit growth YOY.....


If you don't think Lyon warrants a thread of its own then why visit it or write such pointless comments? Let us who are interested in discussing it. Personally I find these threads far more interesting than those endless aviation forums for each state in the US or for their college sports tournament charters but you don't see me h8in' on there.


Where do you draw the line? Should I open a new thread about Katowice Airport or Trondheim Airport experiencing growth too? I’d that were to be the case, they would all be closed down. Lyon Airport is the 50th busiest airport in Europe. Nothing exceptional to report. I don’t see what is so special about it to be honest. If something exceptional stands out about achieving 6% growth, then I’m keen to hear it. Otherwise it’s just non news.
 
FGITD
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:24 am

Half the threads on this site aren't "newsworthy"

You think anyone actually cares that UA just received another 319 in the new livery, or that tiny airport x now has a once weekly service to tiny airport y? Of course not, but this website suffers from an overwhelming English speaking territory bias.

The topic at hand... Great news for LYS. Would love to see AF expand service, given that the middle eastern carriers seem to be taking note oh LYS. But of course it begs the question...why put so much effort into one airport, when barely 2 hours away by train you have your own megahub?
 
Blerg
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:42 am

Skyblue39 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Skyblue39 wrote:
This “growth” only amounted to about 700K passengers YOY.
I am not sure why Lyon is so special to warrant a new thread about this? It is also only the 50th busiest European Airport.

There are far more busier airports than Lyon, which have experience double digit growth YOY.....


If you don't think Lyon warrants a thread of its own then why visit it or write such pointless comments? Let us who are interested in discussing it. Personally I find these threads far more interesting than those endless aviation forums for each state in the US or for their college sports tournament charters but you don't see me h8in' on there.


Where do you draw the line? Should I open a new thread about Katowice Airport or Trondheim Airport experiencing growth too? I’d that were to be the case, they would all be closed down. Lyon Airport is the 50th busiest airport in Europe. Nothing exceptional to report. I don’t see what is so special about it to be honest. If something exceptional stands out about achieving 6% growth, then I’m keen to hear it. Otherwise it’s just non news.


What is preventing you from opening a thread on Katowice or Trondheim? Do it. Don't we have threads on Idaho or 'the rest of Ohio' or 'Other airports in Tennessee' ...If there is enough interest the threads will survive. This one has obviously attracted enough interest as there is an ongoing discussion. Just because you don't find it interesting doesn't mean others don't as well. Stop polluting this space with your intolerance.
 
Blerg
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:44 am

In other news, Wizz Air will not be resuming its two weekly BEG-LYS flights. The airport management approached Air Serbia (which was interested two years ago) but they turned them down as they are launching Geneva flights. Such a shame, JU could have opened the Balkans for LYS region and provided a nice alternative to LH and overpriced OS.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:42 pm

Blerg wrote:

By the way, who operates flights from Lyon to Armenia?


Aircompany Armenia

https://armeniafly.com/en
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
SFOThinker
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:49 pm

I think this is an excellent topic for discussion and thank the OP.
 
runway23
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:36 pm

workhorse wrote:

I have always wondered if it could be done to transform Le Versoud into an airport. The runway is short but maybe it could be extended to make it suitable for an ATR. And there's the railway line just behind the entrance, wouldn't be too difficult to build a small platform and make Grenoble-Chambéry trains stop there. Of course, with current political climate, it won't happen.


Grenoble’s current mayor is probably the most green mayor in France and has transformed much of the city center into a pedestrian/cyclist only zone and demolished ad panels in the city. To the point many local commerces are struggling to survive.

So the thought of developing an airport in Grenoble is as of today about as probable as the baguette being banned in France.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:45 am

Blerg wrote:
Skyblue39 wrote:
Blerg wrote:

If you don't think Lyon warrants a thread of its own then why visit it or write such pointless comments? Let us who are interested in discussing it. Personally I find these threads far more interesting than those endless aviation forums for each state in the US or for their college sports tournament charters but you don't see me h8in' on there.


Where do you draw the line? Should I open a new thread about Katowice Airport or Trondheim Airport experiencing growth too? I’d that were to be the case, they would all be closed down. Lyon Airport is the 50th busiest airport in Europe. Nothing exceptional to report. I don’t see what is so special about it to be honest. If something exceptional stands out about achieving 6% growth, then I’m keen to hear it. Otherwise it’s just non news.


What is preventing you from opening a thread on Katowice or Trondheim? Do it. Don't we have threads on Idaho or 'the rest of Ohio' or 'Other airports in Tennessee' ...If there is enough interest the threads will survive. This one has obviously attracted enough interest as there is an ongoing discussion. Just because you don't find it interesting doesn't mean others don't as well. Stop polluting this space with your intolerance.


This 100% agree, thank you Blerg :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

______________________________

One the other hand, why are there 3 daily flights to MRS from LYS? Or some other short domestic French routes (like in the past CFE-LYS)...
Driving on the A7 motorway takes about 3h max door to door and HST probably less... so how important is point to point trafic on this route?
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:55 pm

Skyblue39 wrote:

One the other hand, why are there 3 daily flights to MRS from LYS? Or some other short domestic French routes (like in the past CFE-LYS)...
Driving on the A7 motorway takes about 3h max door to door and HST probably less... so how important is point to point trafic on this route?



It’s important to note that AF at one time tried to turn Lyon into a mini-hub, though I’ve since heard the experiment was somewhat dismantled. There are still plenty of AF flights to other places besides CDG from LYS, so it’s possible they still get enough connecting traffic to serve Marseille directly with an E145.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:13 am

On the domestic side, Lyon – Nantes was up 7,9% and Lyon – Rennes +17,5%.

If you check the departure board on Flightradar, you can all the domestic destinations served from LYS by Air France and easyJet.
 
workhorse
Posts: 772
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Re: LYS traffic grew +6,4% in 2019

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:12 pm

eastafspot wrote:
One the other hand, why are there 3 daily flights to MRS from LYS? Or some other short domestic French routes (like in the past CFE-LYS)...
Driving on the A7 motorway takes about 3h max door to door and HST probably less... so how important is point to point trafic on this route?


~1½h from Marseille Saint-Charles to LYS. Actually, one can say that LYS catchment area extends a long way south down to Avignon, Marseille, Nimes and Montpellier.

For example, quite a bit of people from Aix-en-Provence technological cluster (sort of a mini French Silicon Valley) when they have to go to Asia, prefer to take the train at the Aix-en-Provence TGV station and go to LYS to catch the Emirates flight there.

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